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kaydeecan
01-18-2013, 01:54 AM
When I knit this pattern P1, K4, K2tog, k2, yo, p1, yo, k2, ssk, k4 I get 20 stitches, but I think I should only have 18 because the next row is p1, k8, p1, k8. What am I doing wrong? Please help.

Jan in CA
01-18-2013, 02:01 AM
Are you doing the two decreases? I counted 18 on that first line after decreases.

GrumpyGramma
01-18-2013, 02:06 AM
I too count 18.

salmonmac
01-18-2013, 08:13 AM
Are you only carrying the yarn once over the needle for each yarn over and are you doing the k2tog and ssk correctly? You should start the row with 18sts, increase 2sts with the yo's and decrease 2 with the k2tog and ssk. So the row finishes with 18sts again. Take a look at the videos for yo, k2tog and ssk on the Glossary page just to be sure.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 10:37 AM
My ability to add short columns of small numbers is admittedly suspect, but I count 18 too.
P1 (1)
K4 (4)
K2tog (1)
k2 (2)
yo (1)
p1 (1)
yo (1)
k2 (2)
ssk (1)
k4 (4)
=======
total 18

If you're getting 20, I'd guess the most likely suspects would be in the YO's getting an extra wrap. The decreases are ... possible I guess, but it'd be hard to make 20 that way unless you just forgot to do them altogether. The YO's seem more likely since they happen on either side of a purl. Having to get the yarn to the front and still make the YO can be... confusing. At least it is to me. So it'd be easy to get an extra wrap in there I imagine.

kaydeecan
01-18-2013, 12:38 PM
Thanks for your replies. I am doing the decreases. The mistake must be in the yo. I'll pay better attention and see what I am doing wrong.

kaydeecan
01-18-2013, 12:45 PM
Mojo 11-I see that you have counted only one stitch for the yo. But when I do yo I get an additional stitch. so I have
p1=1
k4=4
k2tog=1
k2=2
yo=2
p1=1
yo=2
k2=2
ssk=1
k4=4
So now I have 20. Obviously the yo's are causing me the problem. I have watched the video for doing yo's and they are increasing one. Sorry to be so dumb, but am still stumped.

kaydeecan
01-18-2013, 12:48 PM
Are you doing the two decreases? I counted 18 on that first line after decreases.

http://www.michaels.com/Caron%C2%AE-Slouchy-Beanie/e09793,default,pd.html

GrumpyGramma
01-18-2013, 12:53 PM
When I first started doing YOs it was hard for me too. Finally I gave up trying to follow instructions and just looked at the yarn, and made it go over the needle once and be at the front for a purl or at the back for a knit. Once you can get it to work and do it a few times, it should be fairly easy to repeat and soon you'll not have to think about it. I could sit here and look at how I do it but I don't know if even then I could tell you how. Maybe I don't even do it right, but the end result looks and works right.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 01:01 PM
Mojo 11-I see that you have counted only one stitch for the yo. But when I do yo I get an additional stitch. so I have
p1=1
k4=4
k2tog=1
k2=2
yo=2
p1=1
yo=2
k2=2
ssk=1
k4=4
So now I have 20. Obviously the yo's are causing me the problem. I have watched the video for doing yo's and they are increasing one. Sorry to be so dumb, but am still stumped.

I suspect that what's causing the problem is the transition from knit to purl (and back) with a YO in the middle. And it may not be the YO itself, but what you're doing next that's giving you the extra stitch.

I'd feel more confident in my advice if I were doing it and noting what I was doing, but I think what's wanted here is to bring the yarn forward between the needles, just as you would when going from any knit to any purl, then continue around and over the RH needle and then back to the front -- between the needles. Then purl as normal for your next stitch. But I'm doing this in my head, not with my hands, so I might be visualizing it wrong. Can't hurt to try a row that way and see if it gives you the right count.

Good hunting!

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 01:27 PM
A yo doesn't use another stitch, it's just wrapping around the needle to add 1 stitch; whatever you do next will anchor it, you do not knit the next stitch unless that's what's in the pattern.

So after you do the first k2, wrap the yarn as if you were knitting a stitch except the needle isn't put into a stitch on the other needle, then bring the yarn to the front between the needles to p1, and after that lay the yarn loosely over the top of the needle to do the k2.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 01:38 PM
A yo doesn't use another stitch, it's just wrapping around the needle to add 1 stitch; whatever you do next will anchor it, you do not knit the next stitch unless that's what's in the pattern.

So after you do the first k2, wrap the yarn as if you were knitting a stitch except the needle isn't put into a stitch on the other needle, then bring the yarn to the front between the needles to p1, and after that lay the yarn loosely over the top of the needle to do the k2.

There's another YO after the p1, before the next k2... but it should be worked the same as the first YO, right? And then lay the yarn across the top for the k2?

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 01:43 PM
They're not worked the same way and I covered that - after the p1, bring the yarn over the needles to k2. When you go from a knit to a purl you make a regular yo then bring the yarn to the front, sort of 1 wraps around the needle, not a full 2 wraps. When going from p to knit, you only have to lay the yarn over the top of the needle loosely and that makes a yo that's like half a wrap.

GrumpyGramma
01-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Sue, your way of explaining makes sense to me. I just tried it and wrapping the yarn as if to knit or as if to purl is exactly what I do. I could never have figured out to say it that way. Thanks! Sometimes I like to know what I'm doing and how it works.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 01:56 PM
They're not worked the same way and I covered that - after the p1, bring the yarn over the needles to k2. When you go from a knit to a purl you make a regular yo then bring the yarn to the front, sort of 1 wraps around the needle, not a full 2 wraps. When going from p to knit, you only have to lay the yarn over the top of the needle loosely and that makes a yo that's like half a wrap.

Ahhh... I think I get it. I wasn't equating the laying over to a YO ... I guess because it didn't actually go around the needle. Must be brain freeze. The office is like a morgue today.

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 02:02 PM
It's still going 'over' the needle though... People often try to overcomplicate YOs when it's just simply putting the yarn over the needle. For some reason, when I first encountered one in a pattern, I didn't have trouble doing it - I just did what the pattern said, took the yarn over the needle. Same thing for kfb, knit into the front and back of the same stitch. Easy.

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 02:04 PM
Sue, your way of explaining makes sense to me. I just tried it and wrapping the yarn as if to knit or as if to purl is exactly what I do. I could never have figured out to say it that way. Thanks! Sometimes I like to know what I'm doing and how it works.

I used to describe them as 'air stitches' - you're not knitting into a stitch on the other needle, you're knitting into the 'air'. Something like air guitar, I imagine....

mojo11
01-18-2013, 02:11 PM
It's still going 'over' the needle though... People often try to overcomplicate YOs when it's just simply putting the yarn over the needle. For some reason, when I first encountered one in a pattern, I didn't have trouble doing it - I just did what the pattern said, took the yarn over the needle. Same thing for kfb, knit into the front and back of the same stitch. Easy.

I'd only ever done YO's by accident until I started working on Christmas presents this past year. For some reason when I had to do it on purpose, I went blank. And THEN I started hearing all the variations on the theme and the circuit breaker tripped to keep me from exploding I guess. Plus it's a lot easier to do than it is to visualize (without doing).

As for kfb, that was the first stitch I ever knitted in my life. It wasn't so much complicated as just hard to DO because I'd gotten the slip knot for the CO1 too tight. Strangely enough (or maybe not) I had less trouble getting into the back of the stitch I'd just knit into the front of than I did getting into the back of an M1. I figure it was probably the geometry of it, because it didn't seem to matter how loose the M1 loop was, I couldn't chase down the back loop of it. Finally I figured out that I could accomplish the same thing by cramming the LH needle into the FRONT loop.

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 02:17 PM
You can also do kbf - knit into the back first, then the front. For some reason I'm finding that easier to do in garter stitch.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 02:30 PM
You can also do kbf - knit into the back first, then the front. For some reason I'm finding that easier to do in garter stitch.

I tend to avoid the kfb unless it's specifically called for because I don't really like the "bar" it makes. But in garter stitch that's probably not as evident, huh? I've never tried doing it in reverse though. In my head that looks a fright, but I suspect that in the real world it's not so scary.

The one that blew my mind was knit into the back, purl into the front. (kbpf? I dunno...) I couldn't think of any compelling reason to do that, so I promptly banished it. Keeping up with all the variants of M1 is about all my brain can hold. Actually... it won't even hold all of that. :zombie:

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 02:45 PM
You would kbpf if you wanted to increase in rib or seed st, but a kfb would do the same thing. The little bar looks like a purl stitch.

I'm actually finding that a m1 in garter stitch is pretty invisible, where it isn't in stockinette stitch and makes a line of purled stitches.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 03:03 PM
You would kbpf if you wanted to increase in rib or seed st, but a kfb would do the same thing. The little bar looks like a purl stitch.

I'm actually finding that a m1 in garter stitch is pretty invisible, where it isn't in stockinette stitch and makes a line of purled stitches.

IS there an increase that's invisible in stockinette? The only thing I've found that doesn't show a bump/ridge/line is ... well I don't know if it has a real official name or not, and it only works if you're holding 2 strands. I call it the "bifurcated increase" ('cos it sounds all geeky and stuff) or the "kss" (for "knit strands separately"). Just knit each strand as a separate stitch and voila. It also has the benefit of being just about the easiest increase you can imagine. I think I have a photo somewhere... Ah! Yes, I do. But I should probably post it in What'cha Knitting? as an FO 'cos this thread is already listing heavily to OT.

suzeeq
01-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Look on the increases page for KLL/KRL. They're pretty close to invisible, one st grows out of the one on the row below.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 04:13 PM
Look on the increases page for KLL/KRL. They're pretty close to invisible, one st grows out of the one on the row below.

I posted the Raspberry Beret (http://www.knittinghelp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1367293#post1367293) which has a good photo of what I'm talking about. But yes, the KRL/KLL are pretty hard to see. I still can't get the videos to play though. :grrr:

GrumpyGramma
01-18-2013, 05:03 PM
Do other videos play? Does youtube work for you? If so, try my link for KH's channel.

mojo11
01-18-2013, 05:22 PM
Do other videos play? Does youtube work for you? If so, try my link for KH's channel.

I haven't had a problem with YouTube -- so far. I haven't tried all of the KH videos, but those two have been problematic all week. At least at work. I can't remember if I tried them from home yet or not.

salmonmac
01-18-2013, 07:28 PM
Mojo 11-I see that you have counted only one stitch for the yo. But when I do yo I get an additional stitch. so I have
p1=1
k4=4
k2tog=1
k2=2
yo=2
p1=1
yo=2
k2=2
ssk=1
k4=4
So now I have 20. Obviously the yo's are causing me the problem. I have watched the video for doing yo's and they are increasing one. Sorry to be so dumb, but am still stumped.
Not dumb in the least. It's a good question. The main thing is to make sure that when you put the yarn over the right needle, you only have one loop for the yarn over. After the knit 2, bring the yarn to the front between the needles, then over the right needle and around to the front again so that you're ready to purl. After the p1, bring the yarn loosely over the right needle to the back and knit 2. That should give you the 18sts that you need.