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View Full Version : OK - how do you Yanks actually KNIT ...?


Marg1e
05-06-2013, 02:49 AM
Having watched one of this site's videos (http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/long-tail-cast-on) for help with long-tail CO, I realise that if how she knits is how you all do, it's no wonder one of the respondents to a thread I'm in didn't know what I meant when I said I crochet like single-needle-knitting!
I'm gen-yoo-winely interested to learn if this is the way Americans knit!
We who were taught a thousand years ago - probably in the English fashion, I would imagine - do it really differently!

HeathersHobbies
05-06-2013, 04:19 AM
I knit English style with the yarn in my right hand. Is that what you meant?

Ingrid
05-06-2013, 08:39 AM
The two most common ways are Continental and "English", or throwing.

With Continental, the yarn is held in the left hand, and the right needle slides through the loop and 'grabs' the yarn and pulls it through. Crocheters tend to prefer this style since they're used to holding the yarn in the left hand.

The English, or throwing, method has the yarn in the right hand. The right needle is inserted into the loop, and the yarn is wrapped (or thrown if your fast, I imagine) around the right tip and pulled through. Usually the yarn is wrapped around the right hand in such a way that you don't have to actually hold it between your fingertips, though that is how the whole process is taught.

Some people plant the left needle on their leg and work the right needle.

There are other methods out there, some unique to the individual, but all have the same results, thankfully.

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 08:43 AM
I knit German style and I am Canadian and American. My former knitting friend who is American knits Combination.

I met a German lady who lives over here that knits English style.

My mom knits German style. Her mother knits English. HER mother knitted German style (her parents were Swiss/German.) Confused, yet? Lol

HeathersHobbies
05-06-2013, 08:50 AM
I knit German style and I am Canadian and American. My former knitting friend who is American knits Combination.

I met a German lady who lives over here that knits English style.

My mom knits German style. Her mother knits English. HER mother knitted German style (her parents were Swiss/German.) Confused, yet? Lol

:roflhard:

I don't remember how my grandmother knitted. I just know she taught me to knit English style. This website taught me continental.

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 08:58 AM
My great grandma taught my mom (I think.) I'm fairly certain she taught her how to hook, too.

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 12:01 PM
I knit Continental but with my current project I've been doing Continental with one color and English with a second color. When I was learning I couldn't get the hang of holding and throwing the yarn with my right hand and crochet-like Continental worked. I've heard Tunisian crochet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2MQP0JIi4o) called single needle knitting. Have you tried it yet? I learned it on a normal crochet hook.

N0obKnitter, your great grandma taught you to hook? :noway: I think you mean crochet? :mrgreen: In that case, I've spent a few hours hooking and have afghans to show for it.

HeathersHobbies
05-06-2013, 12:13 PM
N0obKnitter, your great grandma taught you to hook? :noway: I think you mean crochet? :mrgreen: In that case, I've spent a few hours hooking and have afghans to show for it.

:roflhard:
I have been hooking for the past 30 years

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 12:36 PM
My great grandma taught my MOTHER how to hook. Lol

I'm a hooker and I use needles. I'm bi-stitchual.
http://www.ravelry.com/groups/bistitchual

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 12:59 PM
My great grandma taught my MOTHER how to hook. Lol

I'm a hooker and I use needles. I'm bi-stitchual.
http://www.ravelry.com/groups/bistitchual


Such a proud family tradition. :) Add Tunisian crochet and what does that make it? When one knits both ways at the same time what do you call it? Sometimes we'll do just about anything for the yarn.

Now I got to thinking about it, I do yank the yarn when I do German short rows.

It's a wonder anyone lets us play with sharp, pointy objects!

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 01:52 PM
I knit German style and I am Canadian and American.

What is German style? The terms German and American are so rarely used I can't keep them straight.

I'm a former crocheter, but I prefer to knit English style with my working yarn in my right hand. I can knit continental as well and use both styles for fair isle.

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 02:42 PM
Maybe Tunisian is the bi-stitchual's hybrid?

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 02:45 PM
What is German style? The terms German and American are so rarely used I can't keep them straight.

I'm a former crocheter, but I prefer to knit English style with my working yarn in my right hand. I can knit continental as well and use both styles for fair isle.

German = Continental. The term Continental Is kind of a PC term/euphemism that started during world war 2...I think.

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 02:49 PM
What is German style? The terms German and American are so rarely used I can't keep them straight.

I'm a former crocheter, but I prefer to knit English style with my working yarn in my right hand. I can knit continental as well and use both styles for fair isle.


German = Continental. I read it was known as German knitting but fell out of favor around the time of WWII and was resurrected with a new name. Something like that. A rose by any other name ... I believe American = English, go figger. It's called that in at least some of knit freedom's videos, I've come across it other places too.

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 03:17 PM
Thanks, I'll try to keep it straight. :teehee:

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 03:24 PM
German = Continental. The term Continental Is kind of a PC term/euphemism that started during world war 2...I think.

Great minds...
:woohoo:

DogCatMom
05-06-2013, 06:22 PM
I tried for several YEARS to learn knitting. My girlfriend, who held herself out to me as "a knitter," kept insisting that I learn the Long-Tailed Cast On. I didn't know any better; I thought it was the only cast on. (The one day of my life I was able to spend alone with my grandmother who knew how to knit, she also had shown me this cast-on; I couldn't learn it that day, either.)

I remembered from Grandma how to do the knit and purl stitches. (She had cast on for me and then shown me how to do the stitches themselves, which I remembered forever. But who's going to cast on for you? And, of course, we never did get to cast off....)

So, when I was at a community-service group in April 2011 and saw one of the knitters doing something weird with yarn and a needle, I watched from behind for a moment. I said, "Are you...casting on?" "Sure," she said, "anything that gets loops on the needle works just fine."

It was probably like the lightning that struck Saul of Tarses. I had her show me what she was doing--Backwards Loop, it was--and by the time of the May meeting, had learned how to knit.

I will do anything in my power to avoid using the Long-Tailed Cast-On for a project. I've learned several others by now and find the LTCO a PITA (PITB?), so Backwards Loop, Knitted-On, German Twisted (= Old Norwegian), Cable, and a couple of others will have to do for now.

D*mned thing cost me decades of knitting time.

N0obKnitter
05-06-2013, 06:26 PM
I love thumb cast-on (as I call it) for bridging gusset type holes. :-D

When I was attending knitting guild I dabbled in several cast on methods. I've since reverted back to long-tail for casting on. It's my fave.

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 06:30 PM
DCM...German cast on is just as difficult as LT if not more. But, once you get the hang of it they can both be fast and give a nice edge. Unlike backwards loop. I would never teach that to anyone. :zombie:

Marg1e
05-06-2013, 06:46 PM
Wow! - look what happened while I was asleep!
:-)
What a fascinating thread this is: I thank you all.
Back to the beginning: yes, I use the yarn wrapped around the fingers of my right hand, so it's definitely English. Hardly surprising: when I was growing up, everything Australian was English, basically. I don't recall the point at which we suddenly did a quantum leap and abandoned that with which we'd been raised, and became Yankophiles, copying everything you guys do.
Particularly interested in DogCatMom's abhorrence of long-tail CO. One of the reasons it took me so long to get going on my monstrous beautiful project is that I kept trying it, and kept NOT achieving a sensible length of wool to be woven in, eventually, as the end. "About a foot for every 20 stitches", the video says: b*llsh*t. (See how thoughtful I am of others' sensibilities?) I tried a foot and a half, a foot and a quarter, a foot and three-quarters, two feet ... made no diff.: I NEVER ended up with a leftover end of a practical length. Which is why I said a couple of nasty things about it and returned to my normal style of CO.
I doubt I wind the wool correctly around my fingers, for using anything with a metallic thread is impossible, as it twists beyond belief. But, as with the spastic way I crochet, I've decided I'm far too old to change, and it works, anyway.
:-)

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 07:34 PM
There's a nifty trick for getting a sensible length of yarn with LT. Use two skeins! You can also use both ends of one skein so whatever works for you. This works great when you need to cast on a lot of stitches.

Here's a couple videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blSx_FQ_hHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC7UtQWcrY0

This one is just as effective, but is slightly different
http://cocoknits.com/journal/tips-and-tutorials/no-more-estimating-tail-length-for-a-long-tail-co/

I do it without a knot as one video shows, but either way works. I cut the yarn over my thumb when I'm done, but I wouldn't cut it as short as the woman in the video. I like enough to weave in.

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 07:45 PM
Wow! - look what happened while I was asleep!
:-)
What a fascinating thread this is: I thank you all.
Back to the beginning: yes, I use the yarn wrapped around the fingers of my right hand, so it's definitely English. Hardly surprising: when I was growing up, everything Australian was English, basically. I don't recall the point at which we suddenly did a quantum leap and abandoned that with which we'd been raised, and became Yankophiles, copying everything you guys do.
Particularly interested in DogCatMom's abhorrence of long-tail CO. One of the reasons it took me so long to get going on my monstrous beautiful project is that I kept trying it, and kept NOT achieving a sensible length of wool to be woven in, eventually, as the end. "About a foot for every 20 stitches", the video says: b*llsh*t. (See how thoughtful I am of others' sensibilities?) I tried a foot and a half, a foot and a quarter, a foot and three-quarters, two feet ... made no diff.: I NEVER ended up with a leftover end of a practical length. Which is why I said a couple of nasty things about it and returned to my normal style of CO.
I doubt I wind the wool correctly around my fingers, for using anything with a metallic thread is impossible, as it twists beyond belief. But, as with the spastic way I crochet, I've decided I'm far too old to change, and it works, anyway.
:-)


That'll larn ya ta go ta sleep. :wink:

Congratulations! :balloons: You knit the right way!

I have trouble with the length of tail left with the LTCO too, sometimes I decide to just go with a cable cast on.

Marg1e
05-06-2013, 07:47 PM
Jan, I don't have a smartphone.
I would dearly like to see those two videos you mention first, but getting to view 'em on my PC is ... ahh ... difficult. They're, like, WEENY, when they do eventually turn up, and quite unwatchable by a grumpy old fart. :-\
Do you have those links as ordinary YouTube links, please?

Marg1e
05-06-2013, 07:52 PM
So, GG: you don't sleep?
Lemme think: what is it that doesn't sleep ...? - ah yes: the homunculus, invented by Paracelsus.
Heh heh ...
And if you're making snide reference to the fact that I am in the antipodes and thus living on my head, which probably requires me to sleep more, I'll let you believe that.
:thumbsup:

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 08:31 PM
Jan, I don't have a smartphone.
I would dearly like to see those two videos you mention first, but getting to view 'em on my PC is ... ahh ... difficult. They're, like, WEENY, when they do eventually turn up, and quite unwatchable by a grumpy old fart. :-\
Do you have those links as ordinary YouTube links, please?


Thanks, I noticed I had the same problem but haven't yet figured out how to make them play.

So, GG: you don't sleep?


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :passedout:

So tell me, why wouldn't I be standing on my head and not you? :mrgreen:

Marg1e
05-06-2013, 09:39 PM
Well, GG: as to which one of us is the wrong way up ...
“What if I should fall right through the centre of the earth... oh, and come out the other side, where people walk upside down.” That's what Alice asked herself as she fell, endlessly, down the rabbit hole.
And Carroll/Dodgson wrote that line for her because it was a commonly-held misconception (to put it mildly!) that such was the case!
I like to pretend to maintain the fiction, that's all.
:wink:

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 09:58 PM
Sorry, I was on my iPad and I forgot. I've fixed them from my computer. :thumbsup:

GrumpyGramma
05-06-2013, 10:32 PM
Sorry, I was on my iPad and I forgot. I've fixed them from my computer. :thumbsup:

Thank you, Jan. I know I've seen that method mentioned here before but I never think of it when I need it. Since I watched the videos, maybe I'll remember.

Well, GG: as to which one of us is the wrong way up ...
“What if I should fall right through the centre of the earth... oh, and come out the other side, where people walk upside down.” That's what Alice asked herself as she fell, endlessly, down the rabbit hole.
And Carroll/Dodgson wrote that line for her because it was a commonly-held misconception (to put it mildly!) that such was the case!
I like to pretend to maintain the fiction, that's all.
:wink:

OK, maintain your fiction, I know you really have Velcro on your feet. Sheesh. :mrgreen:
I try to maintain a delusion of privacy myself.

Marg1e
05-06-2013, 10:50 PM
Thanks, Jan - but neither of 'em does it for me, after all. I'll stick with the stills, which are extremely useful.
But am grateful for your trouble, truly!
:waving:

Jan in CA
05-06-2013, 11:07 PM
Stills are helpful, I agree. :thumbsup: if I come across one for this method I'll post it.

I only do this method when I need to cast on a lot of stitches. Otherwise I usually come close to having the tail right. Years of practice I guess. I mostly use worsted weight, too. Other weights will change the length you need or each 10 stitches.

Marg1e
05-07-2013, 06:39 PM
Reminds me of all those years ago when I taught English as a Second Language (for the short time I could stand it: I rapidly became disenchanted with the whole industry) ... Felt obliged to point out that my mother tongue actually does have rules, but that virtually every one, once stated, must be followed by the qualifier "except when ...".
:-\

fatoldladyinpjs
05-07-2013, 08:27 PM
I'm the last person you want to ask this question. I knit Eastern European where the working yarn is always in back of the work for both knit and purl. English and Continental knitters would say my stitches are on the needle backwards. The bottom line is that whatever method you use, the finished work all looks the same. Use whatever you're comfortable with. There's no knitting police here.

Ingrid
05-07-2013, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the laughs!

I don't think there IS a correct way to hold your yarn. It's whatever works for you.

It took me a long time to master long-tail cast on, but now I love it. I hate having to teach it to anyone, though.

There has been someone coming to my school to teach knitting and lead interested students in making squares for a charity project. I give her all due kudos for doing this, but I have to say when she started with trying to teach LTCO by standing in the front of the room, I cringed. I ended up casting on for most of the kids and once those who wanted to knit learned how, I showed them the knitted cast on. They were grateful. A couple did learn it, though!

On a side note, I wish I could show the picture of the 6'5" Blood sitting next to the self-proclaimed Crip sitting, knitting, and chatting. Now if we could push knitting in the Middle East. . .

GrumpyGramma
05-07-2013, 10:27 PM
On a side note, I wish I could show the picture of the 6'5" Blood sitting next to the self-proclaimed Crip sitting, knitting, and chatting. Now if we could push knitting in the Middle East. . .

I'd love to see that!

Marg1e
05-08-2013, 02:44 AM
By all the gods, success at that would change ... THE WORLD !

Ingrid
05-08-2013, 07:29 AM
They were knitting with chopsticks so there wasn't even a threat of hostilities! :teehee: One of them held his square up to his face like burglar's mask. I told him that if I heard a report of a crime having been committed by a tall, black man with a colorful, hand-knitted bandana covering his face, I was gonna turn him in!:rofl:

GrumpyGramma
05-08-2013, 10:52 AM
I don't think there IS a correct way to hold your yarn. It's whatever works for you.

If there is one major-most-important-don't-you-ever-forget-it thing I've learned here, it's that whatever works for you is the right way!

Jan in CA
05-08-2013, 04:32 PM
If there is one major-most-important-don't-you-ever-forget-it thing I've learned here, it's that whatever works for you is the right way!

:teehee: I say that a lot. I got tired of continental knitters saying their method was better which kind of made new english knitters feel like we were less than adequate or just as accomplished. . :hair:

GrumpyGramma
05-09-2013, 12:11 AM
Anyone saying their way the right way for everyone, no matter what they're talking about, gets on my nerves. I really truly detest some of the youtube videos that make it look like English knitters are all but throwing their arms around. It reminds me of those gosh awful commercials where someone with a knife is supposedly trying to cut something and is being a danger to themselves and others. That doesn't sell me the product they're advertising and making English knitting look clownish doesn't make me want to knit Continental. Now that I can finally do knit stitches English style, I think I can better understand why some prefer it. If I'm knitting with yarn in one hand only, it's still Continental for me but that's my comfort zone and that's all it is. You and others here who knit English have taught me so much, how could I possibly consider my way better? When my GKs learned to do knit stitches, I taught them to do it English because that's what they wanted.

Marg1e
05-09-2013, 04:45 PM
I did spend a fair bit of time trying to learn to crochet in the 'approved' manner - i.e., yarn in left hand, etc. - simply because I thought it would be nice to be able to use yarn with a metallic thread in it. I was crocheting a throw for friends based on a stained glass motif (duly acknowledged when I was in Ravelry), and a black with metallic thread would've been perfect for the 'leading' parts ...
But I simply couldn't maintain it. I mean, I did understand what I was being told, and did manage to actually do it; but I couldn't keep it up! - my fingers were far too used to my 'single needle knitting' style. So the throw was made with plain black for the leading.
And here it is ... you can imagine what the flecked black would've looked like; and so I do regret my inability to DO IT RIGHT! - but only for that reason! :-)

GrumpyGramma
05-09-2013, 04:49 PM
That is beautiful! When you crochet you don't hold the yarn in your left hand? How do you do it?

Marg1e
05-09-2013, 05:10 PM
It's hard to describe with any accuracy, GG ...
The yarn is wound around the fingers of my right hand, starting with the little finger; the crochet hook is held between the 3rd/2nd fingers and thumb; the object is held in my left hand. The hook gets kind of thrust into the required st/sp just as my knitting needle does, and the yarn wrapped around the emerging end from the right.
And if you can grasp that image, you really are a h'expert!
<grin>

Jan in CA
05-09-2013, 05:33 PM
Interesting! I've never seen anyone crochet like that. I crocheted for many years using the "traditional" method of holding the yarn in my left hand, but when it came to knitting, English method was just easier and more natural for me. :shrug:

That is a beautiful afghan you've crocheted! :inlove:

Marg1e
05-09-2013, 05:39 PM
I was very pleased with it, particularly because I made it as a gift for my oldest and dearest friends' 50th wedding anniversary - and they were RAPT!
And when I add that it was they who gave me my Gaggia Classic as a birthday present, 2–3 years ago, you will understand why their pleasure was so gratifying.
:-)
But the only 'garment' I've ever crocheted is a shawl that I made for my publisher, who is a very small and a very wonderful woman. (She must be, to be able to correspond creatively with me over the space of nearly 18 months ...)
I'm one of those people who tends to pull stuff out if it doesn't meet my standards: and such is a fairly regular occurrence.
:-|

GrumpyGramma
05-09-2013, 09:53 PM
Publisher? What are you writing?

Marg1e
05-09-2013, 11:08 PM
Sig. files are sometimes useful things ...
:-)

salmonmac
05-10-2013, 06:33 AM
Congratulations on the book. The excerpted chapter is a fine one. I wish you much success with it although just seeing it in print must be very satisfying.

Becky Morgan
05-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Anyone saying their way the right way for everyI really truly detest some of the youtube videos that make it look like English knitters are all but throwing their arms around.

It's just the reverse of the fad for English knitters running up, trying to grab projects out of Continental knitters' hands and offering to how them the RIGHT way. There is no RIGHT way. The current We All Must Knit Continental fad is just that, a fad (and I knit combined.) One of these days some trendy instructor will "discover" another style that becomes the We All Must.

If the result looks like a knit, purl or yarn over, it's all good. Nobody's allowed to run up, grab the finished garment and yell "You knitted this the wrong way!"

The only thing I wish would disappear is the wrist-twister English variant still practiced around here where everyone brags about how many carpal tunnel surgeries they've endured. That's the only method they teach in the mandatory home ec class. It hurts, it's hard and it's not necessary to pull the yarn so hard that it often breaks and the finished object will stand by itself...even when it's supposed to be a lace shawl. No wonder so few people continue to knit afterwards--they don't know there are better ways, English or continental.

GrumpyGramma
05-10-2013, 12:04 PM
Thanks to salmonmac I found the chapter excerpt. Imagine my shock and surprise to discover that a well written, interesting book that actually contains real, coherent sentences is being published. I want to read the whole thing. I'd concluded that only those who can't write real sentences can get published anymore. :thumbsup: and congrats! I always wanted to converse with a real, live author and now I can say I have! I suspected a real writer would be a very interesting person and I'm not disappointed.

As an aside, I came across a youtube video with a sort of rap about the Periodic Table of the Elements and was thinking I'd share it with my grands when I heard "randomly organized" in it. It was written by a teacher. Unless I'm sorely in error, randomly and organized are mutually exclusive. Some things just make me cringe; then the whole point of the thing falls by the wayside.

Thanks for pointing out the link in your sig. I hadn't noticed that it was a link. :shrug:

Marg1e
05-10-2013, 05:53 PM
Good morning, young ladies!
I have just made a nice little loaf of bread, and it is cooling irritatingly slowly on a rack. I am hungry. Sighh ... Shoulda started making it Thursday rather than Friday (using ¼ tsp yeast, it sits for more than 12 hours before being cooked, you see).
Then I took my battery of pills: although I'm happy to report, somewhat boringly, that there's only one prescription and four Others; whereas I was throwing down a few more, while back.
So here I am, ready once more for the fray and the fun.
Most appreciative of nice comments, believe me! It's been so long since I delivered the ms to Fremantle Press - my first submission, apart from a memoir competition (wherein I was not even shortlisted) - that I've had plenty of time to become anxious about it. Released early August; and I'm meeting the Marketing Manager later this month to be told what'll be going down in that regard.
I now draw a line under all that, with apologies to those who are wondering what the devil I'm raving about.
____________________________________________

Being as inexperienced as I am, knitting/crochet-wise, I've never come across any of the "my way or the highway"-style crafters of whom you guys write; and I'm certainly happy I haven't! I suspect I might been a wee bit rude, whaddya reckon ...?
Becky, what IS the wrist-twister variant you describe? - I mean, it sounds absolutely weird ...

GrumpyGramma
05-10-2013, 06:00 PM
Convince them you absolutely must put in an appearance in Seattle to promote your book here in the U.S. I'll come for an autographed copy...I hate going to Seattle, I'd make DD take me and make an exception. The publishers will pay for your trip of course.

Marg1e
05-10-2013, 06:28 PM
Oh, undoubtedly. They haven't indicated that they wish to transport me from Sydney to Perth for a local launch, but I'm sure they'll want to get me over to the US of A ...
If only.
See below re Fremantle Press. I have no idea how this works; all I know is that their publishing list is really impressive - quality stuff - and I wanted to be part of that. If you like, I'll let you know how it all goes - although it's far more exciting for me than for you.
And now I reckon my bread will've cooled enough to be attacked with a breadknife; so off I go to do that. My tummy's rumbling!
:teehee:

GrumpyGramma
05-10-2013, 07:22 PM
Yeah, I'd love a glimpse inside the life of an author. This thread may fall into history but you've got your blog thread too.

Jan in CA
05-10-2013, 07:51 PM
We did go off the rails a bit in this thread, but I think Margie's questions got answered. And if not I have no doubt she'd let us know if we didn't. :teehee:

GrumpyGramma
05-10-2013, 09:01 PM
We did go off the rails a bit in this thread, but I think Margie's questions got answered. And if not I have no doubt she'd let us know if we didn't. :teehee:

Ya think? No, not Marge! She's too shy. :p

What was the original question? I'm sure there was one, I'll have to see what it was!

GrumpyGramma
05-10-2013, 09:08 PM
Having reviewed the original question
OK - how do you Yanks actually KNIT ...?
I think it might be safe to answer: We knit any way we darned well please that gets stitches on and off the needles as we want them. I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few Aussies take the same attitude.

Becky Morgan
05-11-2013, 04:47 PM
Becky, what IS the wrist-twister variant you describe? - I mean, it sounds absolutely weird ...

There's a whole jingle about it and all, but picture holding both needles, tips to the sky, with your left hand doing absolutely nothing so far as I can see. Bend your right wrist over your left, put the needle trough, twist back and up toward the tip of the needle, leave it hanging in the air while you pick up the yarn and wind it around the needle tip, pick the needle up again, put your right index finger over the needle tip while you twist your wrist in the other direction (back and down) until your palm faces you, let go with the index finger so the stitch can slide off...and repeat eighteen bazillion times until you're done, or until your wrist and elbow give out and you get to brag about how good your surgeon is.
I CANNOT knit that way. I can throw with my left hand (and can do the thing with the long needle held under my right arm, knitting with my left) but that stab, twist, drop, wind, twist, drop just will not work for me.

Now I have to go read your book. I don't reckon American bituminous coal mining would be of much interest or I'd offer you mine :)

Marg1e
05-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Another morning arises, and so do I, along with a huge fog bank, rolling in from ... lemme see ... the north! - how strange!
I find it hard to take in Becky's description of that, ahh, activity (for I don't consider it capable of being described as 'knitting'). Why in the name of all the gods would anyone DO that?!
Bituminous coal? - then you're a scholar, Becky, and I admire you.
:notworthy:
Yeah, sorry about that egocentric stuff, all. But it's hard not to be fairly obsessed by it, at this point.
Speaking of blogs, the publishers wanted me to do something on my own behalf, publicity-wise, so I learned how to use WordPress and started one. It was The Weirdest Thing, honestly! - all these people writing stuff that's mostly expressed in appalling grammar, and mostly full of totally uninspiring minutiae. Mine too, I imagine (but not the grammar, I promise: and that ain't a misspelling of your name, GG!)
I attracted about 30 'followers' in the 5—6 weeks of its life; but suddenly I couldn't stand the narcissism and closed it down. And it took WordPress several months to delete it from the collection! - they are a useless and unhelpful lot.
Unlike you: in fact, in diametric opposition to you!
:waving:

Becky Morgan
05-11-2013, 08:08 PM
"Scholar" is a whole lot more polite word for me than a lot of readers come up with :roflhard: My local histories are supposed to get people interested, and if it takes making the laugh I'm all for it. I had a blog for a while, but Blogspot got me locked out of it somehow and no one was reading it anyway.

As for the :knitting: ...no, seriously, that's how the home ec department teaches knitting, and the survivors INSIST that everyone knit that way.

Marg1e
05-11-2013, 09:26 PM
In which case, far better for us to've taught ourselves, regardless of rightness or wrongness.
Trying to summon up a mental image of a classful of unfortunates trying to do as instructed, as per your description of it, Becky, causes the brain to implode.
:-|

Jan in CA
05-11-2013, 11:14 PM
I can't even picture how this weird method works!

GrumpyGramma
05-11-2013, 11:15 PM
I don't think this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkeGgEhdyHw) does Becky's description justice but she does leave the needle hanging. I just can't picture the method as described but it does leave me LOL. I pity the poor students!

Marg1e
05-11-2013, 11:36 PM
Good GRIEF! - I take exception to being told that's "the English style" of knitting! Teaching people to knit like that is ... it's ... I'm almost lost for words (Chic would've said "NEVER!"). It's unforgiveable.
My response to that as a learning resource is –
:fingerwag:

GrumpyGramma
05-11-2013, 11:49 PM
One reason I didn't learn to knit sooner is that every resource I could find...before the internet it was all written and illustrations...said to do it that way.

Jan in CA
05-12-2013, 12:01 AM
Oh I see. Well technically that is correct in its form, but it's awkward and too spread out. I do have a friend who wraps her yarn a bit like that so she does knit fairly slowly, but over time has managed to get faster than you'd think. I knit English, but it's all sort of a smooth movement where I don't really lose contact with the needle.

GrumpyGramma
05-12-2013, 12:05 AM
Since reading here and watching videos I finally can knit English style and it's getting easier and smoother, not fast but doable. I can't understand why they make it so blasted hard. I really did wonder how anyone ever learned to knit. If I'd ever been around anyone who actually knitted and could have learned from them, I might be an English style knitter. Whatever gets it done is what it takes but there are limits. I'd love to see the wrist-twister knitting in a video.

Marg1e
05-12-2013, 12:47 AM
The video you linked to, Your Royal Grumpiness, is one we should all reflect upon in terms of doing it like that with circular needles ...
:-)

Becky Morgan
05-12-2013, 01:22 AM
I don't think this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkeGgEhdyHw) does Becky's description justice but she does leave the needle hanging. I just can't picture the method as described but it does leave me LOL. I pity the poor students!

That's close, but do everything there in a way more exaggerated manner with a lot more midair flailing and twisting, and make sure you give the yarn a hard yank at the end of every stitch. I actually have a cuff and couple inches of sleeve from a sweater, left in a Goodwill bag of a soft fluffy baby yarn, that is knitted so tightly that it stands up by itself and has the texture of a heavy cardboard box. You can tell who's tried to knit this way by the many breaks in wool yarn and the number of projects cast aside with needles still in them.

I'll try to do a video of a few (a VERY few--my wrists don't like it!) stitches tomorrow. Don't expect too much, because I've never tried to upload a video before. Maybe it can serve as a bad example: Don't let THIS happen to YOU!

Marg1e
05-12-2013, 01:24 AM
Ah! - we are now all WAITING FOR YOU, Becky.
Don't feel any pressure but.
;)

GrumpyGramma
05-12-2013, 01:44 AM
30 Second Film Festival '11 - How not to knit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPlvco4fR7M)

Jan in CA
05-12-2013, 01:47 AM
30 Second Film Festival '11 - How not to knit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPlvco4fR7M)

:zombie:

Dclutterchique
05-13-2013, 03:09 PM
There's a whole jingle about it and all, but picture holding both needles, tips to the sky, with your left hand doing absolutely nothing so far as I can see. Bend your right wrist over your left, put the needle trough, twist back and up toward the tip of the needle, leave it hanging in the air while you pick up the yarn and wind it around the needle tip, pick the needle up again, put your right index finger over the needle tip while you twist your wrist in the other direction (back and down) until your palm faces you, let go with the index finger so the stitch can slide off...and repeat eighteen bazillion times until you're done, or until your wrist and elbow give out and you get to brag about how good your surgeon is.
I CANNOT knit that way. I can throw with my left hand (and can do the thing with the long needle held under my right arm, knitting with my left) but that stab, twist, drop, wind, twist, drop just will not work for me.

I'll admit to being an 'thrower' and not a 'flicker'. but in my defence I throw from my wrist and not my shoulder. I read Becky's description and was so :???: by it that I mimed it and after one 'stitch' my arm had a low level ache and normally my fingers/hands only start to ache after I've done quite a bit of knitting.

As for the :knitting: ...no, seriously, that's how the home ec department teaches knitting, and the survivors INSIST that everyone knit that way.

My only response to the survivors is :poke: with a 2mm needle!

That's close, but do everything there in a way more exaggerated manner with a lot more midair flailing and twisting, and make sure you give the yarn a hard yank at the end of every stitch. I actually have a cuff and couple inches of sleeve from a sweater, left in a Goodwill bag of a soft fluffy baby yarn, that is knitted so tightly that it stands up by itself and has the texture of a heavy cardboard box. You can tell who's tried to knit this way by the many breaks in wool yarn and the number of projects cast aside with needles still in them.

I'll try to do a video of a few (a VERY few--my wrists don't like it!) stitches tomorrow. Don't expect too much, because I've never tried to upload a video before. Maybe it can serve as a bad example: Don't let THIS happen to YOU!

I presume the needles are still there as they cannot physically be removed.

The 'evil' part of me has to ask two questions:

Does one get bonus points for wraping and unwrap the yarn round ones fingers in a complicated method every time one picks it up and drops it?

Is there a purl version of this, or has no-one developed a right arm strong enough?

GrumpyGramma
05-13-2013, 03:28 PM
Rube Goldberg knitting at its finest might be an apt description of this style of torture...uh knitting. :zombie:

Becky Morgan
05-13-2013, 05:07 PM
I mimed it and after one 'stitch' my arm had a low level ache and normally my fingers/hands only start to ache after I've done quite a bit of knitting.

I was trying to do a short video clip on all of five stitches, got two rows in and tossed it aside because my elbow hurt. I forgot to mention two added things here--first, you start holding the work with the backs of both hands toward you, and second, when you finish wrapping the yarn, you drop it. That's right...you don't even hold the yarn. The tension comes from yanking it (with your right hand, of course) as you drop it.

And yes, there is a whole how-to-wrap-the-yarn-around-fingers every time you make a stitch. I think you may be on track with the needles unremovable idea. I've had to pull pretty hard to get them out. Most of the needles I find are fives and sixes, and it appears there' also some fad for using really small ones in order to get that rock-hard feel. I think I could make some felted projects without wool by using that method and acrylic. Of course, any mistakes will be forever welded in, but it would be downsized about right.

Once I found what must be four or five skeins of Homespun that had been frogged, plus the remnants of one still on needles. I love Homespun, mind you, I'm strange like that--but I have yet to use this. The piece still on needles was like armor plate, with multiple joins where the yarn had torn apart, and the frogged skeins have the binding thread broken in so many places I'll have to hold it with something else to use it.

Almost every time I knit in public in our area, someone tries to grab the work and "fix" the way I knit, often screeching about twisted stitches since I knit combined. They never seem to notice, until it is pointed out very, very loudly right in their ears, that the stitches are NOT twisted and that there are several ways to knit which don't require separate hazardous activities health insurance.

OH...the purl...yes, they purl. They yell and complain about it, and it REALLY hurts, but they purl with a similar twisting, yanking, all but standing on your head motion.

GrumpyGramma
05-13-2013, 05:20 PM
I was trying to do a short video clip on all of five stitches, got two rows in and tossed it aside because my elbow hurt. I forgot to mention two added things here--first, you start holding the work with the backs of both hands toward you, and second, when you finish wrapping the yarn, you drop it. That's right...you don't even hold the yarn. The tension comes from yanking it (with your right hand, of course) as you drop it.

And yes, there is a whole how-to-wrap-the-yarn-around-fingers every time you make a stitch. I think you may be on track with the needles unremovable idea. I've had to pull pretty hard to get them out. Most of the needles I find are fives and sixes, and it appears there' also some fad for using really small ones in order to get that rock-hard feel. I think I could make some felted projects without wool by using that method and acrylic. Of course, any mistakes will be forever welded in, but it would be downsized about right.

Once I found what must be four or five skeins of Homespun that had been frogged, plus the remnants of one still on needles. I love Homespun, mind you, I'm strange like that--but I have yet to use this. The piece still on needles was like armor plate, with multiple joins where the yarn had torn apart, and the frogged skeins have the binding thread broken in so many places I'll have to hold it with something else to use it.

Almost every time I knit in public in our area, someone tries to grab the work and "fix" the way I knit, often screeching about twisted stitches since I knit combined. They never seem to notice, until it is pointed out very, very loudly right in their ears, that the stitches are NOT twisted and that there are several ways to knit which don't require separate hazardous activities health insurance.

OH...the purl...yes, they purl. They yell and complain about it, and it REALLY hurts, but they purl with a similar twisting, yanking, all but standing on your head motion.


S&M knitting. Who'd a thunk it? :eyebrow2:

I'd love to see a video of someone so misguided as to knit this way, obviously you aren't, please, don't do yourself an injury doing a video. Leave it to our imaginations...or video someone who actually is into this S&M style of knitting. Tell them it's for educational purposes. :mrgreen:

Marg1e
05-13-2013, 05:27 PM
There is something unutterably weird about anyone's going to the trouble of doing what you describe, Becky. A kind of masochism, I suppose. Why anyone would want to be masochistic about knitting beggars belief.
I can't actually summon up a clear mental image of what you decribe; so I would beg you to keep an eye out for a video of it in your WWW travels: it would entertain everyone (except for proponents of the methodology, who would smile proudly).
:neutral:

butlersabroad
05-15-2013, 01:30 PM
I knit English, but until I joined this forum I just thought that I knit and that was an end to it. Didn't even know there were other methods of knitting or casting on/off, which I'm a tad embarrassed to admit now!!

As a side note, I've just returned from three weeks in England and whilst there my SIL asked me to show her how to knit! Apparently I'm now a bona-fide knitter within my family, worthy of consulting for advice! She'd received a book for Christmas and wasn't getting on with what it was telling her with both the techniques and her comfort level. I showed her LTCO which is the only one I know and she picked it up really quickly, along with knit and purl. And,as has already been stated here, I told her to find her own level regarding comfort and not to force her hands into how the book told her to knit. There is no wrong or right, it's such an individual thing, so if it's working for you and you're happy, then keep at it!

GrumpyGramma
05-15-2013, 01:46 PM
Brenda, congratulations on your status upgrade. I hope your protégées join us here!

I'm so glad you got your trip to England. I wonder: Why do we tend to feel embarrassed about not knowing things we really had no reason to be expected to know? I think a lot of share that and I can't figure out why. :shrug: Just having sticks and string doesn't make it possible to knit or to set a snare trap to catch that Angora rabbit without instructions. It's not until we have reason to know there is something else, something more, that we look for it. I for one am trying to look more to what I've learned and can now do than to look at all I don't know; what I don't know is vast and wonderful opportunity for learning more when I'm ready but pretty intimidating too.

I've spent a bit of time reading Jan's early blog thread entries. Talk about encouraging! It's nice to know someone so accomplished experienced much the same things as I'm facing now. Realizing what Jan has accomplished gives me real hope for moi!