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Laticia
06-25-2005, 10:17 AM
Help! My biggest obstacle with learning to knit has been deciphering patterns. I finally found some patterns that I understand all the way through, except one part. The patterns are from Knitting Pure and Simple and I actually think I cam going to be able to knit a sweater!

Ok, so I have knit in the round before, I get all that. The pattern is great, up to the sleeves, and then it gets all vague again. Here is what it says:

(the sweater pattern is a simple pull over, knit from the top down. Early in the beginning of the knitting, sleeve stitches were put on hold on a scrap piece of yarn or stitch holder for working on later. So this begins at this point)
"Slip the sleeve sts onto the larger 16 inch circular needle. Joining yarn at right edge of armhole, pick up 12 sts across the armhole, placing a marker after 6. This marker is the beginning of the round. K 6 rounds. Decrease Round:........)

I understand slipping the stored stitches onto the needle. I get picking up stitches. I understand the need for the marker, to keep track of rounds, but what I cant wrap my brain around is placing that marker in the middle of the picked up stitches, because,

I have stored sts on the needle now. I am going to have working yarn at the beginning of these stashed sts, to pick up 6 stitches across the knitted portion of the armhole of the sweater, then I place a marker, pick up 6 more sts, and then, I am supposed to begin working in the round, but, the working yarn is now at the end of those 12 picked up stitches, right??? And if this is correct, then the first stitch to be worked is the 12th stitch, so how do I get back to the marker to begin the round when the working yarn is 6 stitches back? It says nothing more than what I transcribed here. Even if I slip 6 stitches to get back to the marker, the working end of the yarn is still 6 stitches back, right?

Please someone help, this is my only obstacle and otherwise I think this pattern might make me an official knitter, LOL!

Smiles,
Laticia

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 10:22 AM
Start where the yarn starts. Don't worry about the st between it and the marker. It won't make a lick of difference. :D

Laticia
06-25-2005, 10:42 AM
Hi Ingrid! Oh gosh, its really that simple??? Hallelujah! So, was I correct in deciphering the pattern, or am I all screwed up? I have more sweater patterns from Pure and Simple, and all the patterns do the sleeves the same way, dividing the picked up armhole stitches in half with that marker........

So, I can just pick up the required amount of stitches and place a marker for beginning round reference at that point? Will it be noticeable in the fabric then where I do decreasing for tapering the sleeves later on in the pattern? Cuz I was assuming that dividing those picked up stitches was placing the beginning of the rounds and the decreasing at the underside of the armpit and sleeve so it wouldnt be so noticeable upon wearing, was I correct here in deciphering it this way?

So Ingrid, if it doesnt make a lick of difference, why do pattern writers make it so darn difficult to understand? LOL!

You sure have given me a much needed boost of confidence that I can knit a sweater, thank you Ingrid!

Hugs,
Laticia

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 10:48 AM
I think that trying to analyze patterns is what gets us into trouble. I find that if I just do as they tell me to do, one step at a time, it usually comes out fine in the end. As for the underarm--I always say, unless I am arrested, nobody is every going to see it! Put into perspective, we're talking about 6 st. here. If you have a few minutes, figure out how many st are in that sweater. You'll be amazed!

And yes--you can do it--the fact that you questioned the pattern tells me so! :happydance:

Silver
06-25-2005, 12:11 PM
I disagree here. I think it does make a difference. Placing the stitchmarker at the beginning of the 12 sts will place the sleeve "seam" off center by six sts. If this doesn't bother you, then fine. But I really like the seams straight down the center.

You've slipped the sleeve stitches onto your needle. Join your ball of yarn, then pick up 6 stitches with the new yarn. I think the problem is that you're just slipping existing sts onto your needle instead of picking them up and knitting them. If you pick up and knit, your working yarn travels along with you.

Pick up and knit 6 sts, place marker, pick up and knit 6 more. Then continue knitting around. The beginning of the round is where the marker is, and consequently where your sleeve decreases will be... giving you a centered sleeve seam.

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 01:12 PM
What I got was that she was going to pick up the 6 st, then place the marker, then pick up six st more. Her marker would be in the middle of the 12 st, but her yarn was at the end of the twelve (6 from the marker). If this is incorrect, I apologize.

Silver
06-25-2005, 02:14 PM
Either way she does it, she should keep the marker in the middle of the 12 picked up stitches. At least that's my opinion. ;)

Laticia
06-25-2005, 02:43 PM
OK girls, I am more confused than ever now, yet, I think I might have another way of viewing this, let me run this by you......

Yes, I think we all agree the marker being in the middle of the picked up 12 sts keeps the seam and decreasing all down under the arm, like say a store bought sweater. Being off just 6 sts probably is indeed fine, but darn I want to understand this!

For learning sake here, lets go back to the original way of doing the knitting the way the writer wanted it to be done.....

It does say to only pick up, does not say topick up and knit the stitches........But, if I put the saved stitches back on the working needle, in essence, they have just been knit........if I then pick up AND knit 6 stitches, place a market, pick up AND knit 6 more, then we have a circular needle fully loaded with "just knit stitches", which I guess is a good thing, lol,

BUT, whether I pick up, or pick and knit, I still have to back track to get to the marker to start row one. That would mean these 6 sts will always have one more "row" on them though, doesnt it?

It does indeed say to join with working yarn to pick up the stitches........but whether I just pick them up, or pick them up and knit them, isnt it the same difference as to where the working yarn ends up? I simpy cannot see how to start the round at the marker, even though I do understand the maker is half way point for the seam placement.

I thought, what if I dont use a working yarn to pick up those stitches, but rather lace on the stored stitches and then with the needle just pick up loops of previous stitches on the worked fabric, place the marker, then pick up loops of 6 more previous stitches. But that still gets me back to having to knit back over the second set of 6 sts to get to the marker.

Bottom line, how the heck do I get to the marker to start even rows yet have all the stitches now in the round, equal, no matter if I picked up and knit, just picked up, or picked up previous stitch loops?

There is an email addy on the pattern, I believe its the writer of the pattern actually, so maybe I will get brave and write her, maybe she can explain it in a way my brain can compute!

The only other thing I can think of is this: Lace on the stored stitches..with the left needle and working yarn, pick up 6 and place a marker.......then with the RIGHT needle, pick up loops from previous stitches...now, begin round one at the marker cuz thats where the working yarn is........would that work?????

More thoughts on this anyone?
Laticia

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 02:53 PM
The fact that those st might have one less "row" on them is what I thought wouldn't matter. Of course the marker has to be in the middle.

I hope I'm picturing this right. What if you pick up the first 6 st, pick up and knit the second 6 and continue your way around. When you get pack to the marker, you will have one row knit all the way around. Am I right here?

Laticia
06-25-2005, 03:03 PM
Hey YES, that DOES make sense I think!!!! Funny how the pattern is so detailed and hand holding with everything else in the directions, and then in the sleeve part, its not as clear.

Anyone else got a take on this? So far, I think Ingrids way of picking up, placing a marker, picking up and knitting around the saved stitches and knitting the original picked up 6, does indeed keep us even in terms of rows, and gets us the bloody dang marker to start row one.

Ingrid, I think ya broke the mystery!

Thanks!
Laticia

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 03:20 PM
And we're back to my original statement that its in the armpit, THE most noticeable part of any knitted garment! :rollseyes: I hope it works out for you. I'm sure it will. Now do you have any REAL mysteries for me to solve? :thinking:

Silver
06-25-2005, 05:57 PM
... pick up the first 6 st, pick up and knit the second 6 and continue your way around.
Hmmm... to pick up a stitch (where there aren't any live stitches), you always pick it up and knit it. See Amy's video for picking up stitches on this page (http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/basic_techniques/misc.php).

"Picking up" and "picking up and knitting" a stitch, are both the same thing. When you pick up a live stitch, it's just slipping it to the needle. ;)

Anyway, I'm glad you got it figured out.

Silver
06-25-2005, 06:02 PM
And we're back to my original statement that its in the armpit, THE most noticeable part of any knitted garment! :rollseyes:
True. (The sarcasm, I mean.) But even so, I'd rather someone learn to do it the right way, the first time, even if the finished stitches aren't going to be noticable. But I guess that's just my opinion.

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 06:13 PM
... pick up the first 6 st, pick up and knit the second 6 and continue your way around.

"Picking up" and "picking up and knitting" a stitch, are both the same thing. When you pick up a live stitch, it's just slipping it to the needle. ;)

Anyway, I'm glad you got it figured out.

When I "pick up" st on an edge, I pull the yarn through. For me "pick up and knit" involves also knitting into that loop that I pulled through. I never knit into it though. I guess if it were all clear cut, there wouldn't be so many how-to books.

Silver
06-25-2005, 06:22 PM
Ok.. that's where the confusion is coming from. To pick up a stitch, you insert your needle into the hole where you're picking up a stitch (that's the pick up part), then you wrap the needle with the yarn and pull it through (that's the knitting part). One new live stitch is made, this is the picked up stitch. I guess I thought you meant something else.

I just hope we aren't confusing Laticia even more by our different wording. :thinking: That's why I posted the link to Amy's video. ;)

Ingrid
06-25-2005, 06:25 PM
Yeah, let's just leave her alone until she asks another question. Then we can play tag-team on her again! :devil:

Silver
06-25-2005, 06:32 PM
LOL :thumbsup: