PDA

View Full Version : OT - Dogs at the store?!?


hunterjenn
02-15-2007, 09:45 PM
OK, I don't want to offend anyone, so let me preface this with a few things: I like dogs. I do--I used to want a big one, but DH is allergic. I know lots of people think of them as their children. Even though I don't get it, I'm totally fine with the fact that people like to bring their dogs for a ride in the car while they run errands and such (as long as it's not endangering others on the road...).

Buuuuuuuuutttt.....does the dog really need to come in the store? OK, I'm at Michael's today, and I watch this woman take her smallish dog out of the car, wrap it in a mangy blanket, and carry it inside. THEN I have to wait several minutes for her to move while she situates her pup in the SEAT of the cart. Now, I know there are lots of you all who love dogs, and I think that's great, but am I totally a jerk to think it's a little out of line to put the doggie in the cart?? I mean, if he'd been walking on a leash, I think I would have been OK with it. I see that at Home Depot all the time. And maybe even in the cart while inside a purse or carrier would have been OK. But in the yucky, hairy blanket in the seat where my kids sit....? I tell ya what, if my allergic husband had been there, he would have blown his top!

OK, end of quasi-rant. Hope I haven't offended any of the dog lovers here. I just don't get it. Is it just because I'm not a little dog person, or does that strike anyone else as a bit much?

Jax3303
02-15-2007, 09:51 PM
Michaels is a dog-friendly store. dosen't bother me at all, I love getting to play with doggies when I'm at work. There's a whole shopping mall here that advertises as dog-friendly. :shrug: as long as the dog is people friendly, I'm perfectly fine with it.

Knitting_Guy
02-15-2007, 09:51 PM
Hmmmm, in many states that wouldn't even be legal. Even in the states that don't specifically prohibit it, the stores themselves do.

Unless it's something like a Pet Smart the dog needs to stay in the car. Far too many people out there are allergic to animal dander.

MamaMer
02-15-2007, 09:57 PM
So you can just take your dog into Michaels? I had no idea. I love my dogs very much but I only take them to places where I know for sure they are allowed and won't be intrusive (like the pet store, or an outdoor sidewalk cafe) And I wouldn't take their yucky blanket with me either (if they had one)

Stiney
02-15-2007, 10:03 PM
In my opinion, the only dogs that should be allowed in stores are seeing-eye dogs. Too much potential for damage to the merchandise.

The Still Recovering Retail Employee :teehee:

SandraEllen
02-15-2007, 10:15 PM
I don't hate dogs either, but I HATE people that think they're special enough to bring their dogs with them everywhere. It's a DOG!

If you want something that you can bring with you everywhere, have a kid OR carry a stuffed animal with you. Leave the dog at home.

I know this is supposed to be a loving forum, but this is one of my pet peeves. no pun intended.

Some people are really allergic. If you go to a pet store, you expect there to be animals there. You don't expect a dog to be at a mall because nobody brings a dog to a mall...

Pets for people with special needs are different and completely acceptable.

CateKnits
02-15-2007, 10:19 PM
I agree with you. And I'm terrified of dogs. Though my favorite LYS has a dog there. It's HER shop and HER dog, so I deal.

Silver
02-15-2007, 10:56 PM
I like dogs, but I don't own one.

I think if it's allowed to bring an animal into a store, so long as the animal is well behaved, and under control at all times, it's no problem. I don't have to pet it, talk to it, stand near it or even look at it if I don't want to.

People are allergic, yes, but there are also people allergic to perfumes. I wear perfume. I'm sorry if it makes you sneeze.

I would love to wear my snake around my neck to every store I go to, but for some reason smelly, noisy dogs are much more accepted than my quiet, gentle snake. :shrug:

Friskums
02-15-2007, 11:09 PM
If I had a store, Silver, I'd let you bring your pretty snake in. :)

As long as I could pet it. :teehee:

HamaLee
02-15-2007, 11:32 PM
I love my dog, but he doesn't need to go in any store that isn't filled with kibble, squeaky toys, and other animals. And he doesn't want to go to Michael's or anywhere else, so I leave him at home where he's happy. Really, he doesn't need or want to go to the pet store either, he just wants the bounty when I get home.

If I have him in the car for some reason and need to make a quick stop--I will consider leaving him in the car if it's cool, daylight, and I can see him the entire time I'm inthe store. If not, I drive home and go back out to the store. It's my dog, he's my responsibility and people who are allergic or afraid of dogs don't need to deal with my friendly dog in stores where they wouldn't expect him.

Now, if allergic or fearful people show up to a dog park, or a Petsmart, or a Dogs R Us or whatever...I'll probably have my dog and it's THEIR problem for showing up. However, everywhere else? It's MY responsibility to leave my dog at home where he belongs. My two cents of course :-)

And actually...if I knew certain stores were dog friendly, I might bring him occasionally. But I would NEVER bring an ill-behaved dog somewhere like that...I can't stand irresponsible pet owners who think it's "cute" for their dog to jump all over strangers and link themor whatever. It's inappropriate! But I don't know of any dog-friendly stores so I don't...this Michael's policy is a surprise to me! Does anyone know if it's a branch-by-branch policy or nationwide?

bailsmom
02-15-2007, 11:48 PM
Okay, I'm a huge dog lover so I have to respond to this post. I am one of those people who think of my dog as my 'little girl'. She's my baby, my life and I would throw myself in front of a bus to save her life, just as you would for your 'real kids'. It's no different for us animal lovers. You don't have to understand it, just accept it. Plain and simple. :wink:

As for having them in the store, well I could go on and on about that, but I'll keep it short. Who gives a flying flip if it's in the cart? :?? Was it barking at you? Growling at you? Attacking you? Peeing or pooping in the cart? (children do this in their pants and sit in those seats :ick: ) If not, then who cares. Most people who have little dogs like that are so attached to them the thought of leaving them at home is beyond them.

Yes, people are allergic to pets, but I can't walk through the perfume dept at any store or I'll get a migraine from the smells. And I'm not protesting perfume counters. I can't stand listening to mothers and fathers screaming at their children in the stores, listening to crying babies and so on, so I don't, I leave and then I'm happy.

Bottom line is if it bugs you so much go to another part of the store. It'd be different if they were letting them run loose through the store, that's irresponsible. But there are a lot of irresponsible parents out there and we all have to co-exist, even in stores.

Now this is just my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone, but when people don't understand animal people I must stand up and defend. It's my civic duty. :angelgrin:

hunterjenn
02-16-2007, 12:51 AM
Bottom line is if it bugs you so much go to another part of the store.

And, to clarify, that's just what I did. I guess what really bugged me the most was:
a) the disgusting, filthy, coated-with-shedded-fur state of the blanket she was dragging around and putting in the seat of the cart, and
b) that she made such a production of making sure the dog was seated with the nasty blanket, making sure everyone was watching her to-do, while not realizing (or not caring) that I couldn't get to the carts while trying to hold my twins' hands and not drop my purse.

I'm not going to waffle and say that the dog itself in the store didn't throw me, but I wasn't irritated/grossed out until I saw the things mentioned above. Like I said, I guess I just don't understand *why* the dog needs to come at all. :shrug:

ETA: When my kids are acting up and might be bothering people in a store, we leave, and I come back alone later. :wink:

jess_hawk
02-16-2007, 01:33 AM
Where I work, we allow dogs into the store, though most people leave their dogs in the car. On the other hand, I work at a small hardware store.

As far as the dog being in the cart, I don't see why that is any more of a problem than it walking, except that the lady was in the way while settling the dog there. Common courtesy in my mind would be to either allow you to take a cart first, or to move aside before settling the dog.

The real question that I see is whether dogs should be allowed into the store - and in my opinion that is up to the owner or manager of the store. As previously mentioned, yes people are allergic to dogs but they are also allergic to a lot of other things. If the store is a pet friendly store, then pets are allowed in. As far as the disgusting blanket goes... well I've seen some pretty disgusting people shopping where I work and other places, and while it is really gross, there's not much anyone can do about it.

hunterjenn
02-16-2007, 01:40 AM
As far as the disgusting blanket goes... well I've seen some pretty disgusting people shopping where I work and other places, and while it is really gross, there's not much anyone can do about it.

:rofl: So true!!

momwolf
02-16-2007, 02:06 AM
People who think animals are children are not being fare to the dog.Who told people it was ok to treat a dog like a human?Dogs not people.Don't get me wrong I LOVE DOGS.Have been training them most of my life,have 2 dogs now.Don't use your dog for your emotional hang ups like needing children.If you can't be around your own kids volunteer at a school or day care.They would love to have your help.Dogs just want to be dogs not people.Therapy dogs that help ALL kinds of people are never treated like people.Dogs LOVE jobs and therapy dogs are happy dogs with jobs to do.The happiest dogs are dogs that walk around because they get exercise.They weren't bred to be carried around all the time.
Only pet stores should allow pets to be brought in.
And another pet peeve I have is people who drive around with dogs in their laps when they are DRIVING.
So people keep your dogs on leashes,let them WALK around,Don't drive and with your dog in your lap,Keep your dog out of stores, and PLEASE pick up your dog's poop when out walking.
Hope I didn't offend anybody because this is just my personal opinion,and one of my pet peeves is how people treat animals like people
for their own selfish needs.

Jan in CA
02-16-2007, 03:25 AM
Okay now...lets keep it nice here and agree to disagree. ;)

IMO don't think dogs should NOT be allowed in stores that sell food, but as long as they are well behaved it shouldn't be a problem. I like to shop and I gotta tell you I rarely see dogs in any store that isn't a pet store so I doubt if allergy issues would come up unless a person is severely allergic and is standing next to the dog. We've taken our dog into Home Depot a few times, but she sits on a "clean" blanket in the cart and is leashed as well.

Edited to add the NOT :doh:

miccisue
02-16-2007, 09:39 AM
Okay, I'm a huge dog lover so I have to respond to this post. I am one of those people who think of my dog as my 'little girl'. She's my baby, my life and I would throw myself in front of a bus to save her life, just as you would for your 'real kids'. It's no different for us animal lovers. You don't have to understand it, just accept it. Plain and simple. :wink:

As for having them in the store, well I could go on and on about that, but I'll keep it short. Who gives a flying flip if it's in the cart? :?? Was it barking at you? Growling at you? Attacking you? Peeing or pooping in the cart? (children do this in their pants and sit in those seats :ick: ) If not, then who cares. Most people who have little dogs like that are so attached to them the thought of leaving them at home is beyond them.

Yes, people are allergic to pets, but I can't walk through the perfume dept at any store or I'll get a migraine from the smells. And I'm not protesting perfume counters. I can't stand listening to mothers and fathers screaming at their children in the stores, listening to crying babies and so on, so I don't, I leave and then I'm happy.

Bottom line is if it bugs you so much go to another part of the store. It'd be different if they were letting them run loose through the store, that's irresponsible. But there are a lot of irresponsible parents out there and we all have to co-exist, even in stores.

Now this is just my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone, but when people don't understand animal people I must stand up and defend. It's my civic duty. :angelgrin:


Amen, sister!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

miccisue
02-16-2007, 09:44 AM
People who think animals are children are not being fare to the dog.Who told people it was ok to treat a dog like a human?Dogs not people.Don't get me wrong I LOVE DOGS.Have been training them most of my life,have 2 dogs now.Don't use your dog for your emotional hang ups like needing children.If you can't be around your own kids volunteer at a school or day care.They would love to have your help.Dogs just want to be dogs not people.Therapy dogs that help ALL kinds of people are never treated like people.Dogs LOVE jobs and therapy dogs are happy dogs with jobs to do.The happiest dogs are dogs that walk around because they get exercise.They weren't bred to be carried around all the time.
Only pet stores should allow pets to be brought in.
And another pet peeve I have is people who drive around with dogs in their laps when they are DRIVING.
So people keep your dogs on leashes,let them WALK around,Don't drive and with your dog in your lap,Keep your dog out of stores, and PLEASE pick up your dog's poop when out walking.
Hope I didn't offend anybody because this is just my personal opinion,and one of my pet peeves is how people treat animals like people
for their own selfish needs.


And just what exactly is your criteria for people treating their animals "like people"? Your post has me so confused I don't know what you are saying. You "love" dogs, but they are only supposed to be working dogs, or dogs to be walked, or what? :??

HamaLee
02-16-2007, 10:01 AM
People who think animals are children are not being fare to the dog.Who told people it was ok to treat a dog like a human?Dogs not people.Don't get me wrong I LOVE DOGS.Have been training them most of my life,have 2 dogs now.Don't use your dog for your emotional hang ups like needing children.If you can't be around your own kids volunteer at a school or day care.They would love to have your help.Dogs just want to be dogs not people.Therapy dogs that help ALL kinds of people are never treated like people.Dogs LOVE jobs and therapy dogs are happy dogs with jobs to do.The happiest dogs are dogs that walk around because they get exercise.They weren't bred to be carried around all the time.
Only pet stores should allow pets to be brought in.
And another pet peeve I have is people who drive around with dogs in their laps when they are DRIVING.
So people keep your dogs on leashes,let them WALK around,Don't drive and with your dog in your lap,Keep your dog out of stores, and PLEASE pick up your dog's poop when out walking.
Hope I didn't offend anybody because this is just my personal opinion,and one of my pet peeves is how people treat animals like people
for their own selfish needs.


And just what exactly is your criteria for people treating their animals "like people"? Your post has me so confused I don't know what you are saying. You "love" dogs, but they are only supposed to be working dogs, or dogs to be walked, or what? :??

Well, holding dogs in your purse, or having them in the child seat of a cart, or otherwise "spoiling" it would be treating the animals like people. I'm with momwolf here. I own a dog, and have all my life and I love my pup dearly. But he's a dog, not a child...and it's disrespectful and in my opinion borderline abusive to treat a dog like a child or human. momwolf is right, the vast majority of breeds WANT to work. They want to run, and be walked, and have a "pack leader" (ie the owner) in control so they don't have to stress about it. They want to herd, or fetch, or protect, etc etc etc. They don't want to be bored and sitting in a car, or in a purse. And when dogs get bored and unhappy you start losing shoes, door jambs, couches, etc.
Dogs want to be trained--that's challenging and stimulating work for them. We've bred them and domesticated them that way for hundreds of years, so it's our responsibility now to give them the training and work that they need. Even small dogs need to be stimulated with training...and when they aren't it leads to inappropriate behavior: jumping up on people, barking at guests, etc and too many owners think this is "cute" or "friendly." It's not. It's poor training.

As far as why it's a problem for the dog and it's nasty blankie to be in the cart--well, dogs do carry far more parasites and potential disease on their fur and in their stool (which can be transferred even if it's just sitting there).

Again--if a store allows dogs, then it allows dogs and I think it's cool. But if you bring your dog you still need to be respectful: don't put it in the cart where kids are gonna sit, don't bring in nasty toys with it, and when in a store unless you are 100% sure that your dog WILL NOT leave your side and will respond to your verbal commands of "stay" and "come" 100% of the time--REGARDLESS of distraction....keep your dog on a leash!

msoebel
02-16-2007, 10:02 AM
I think what she was saying is that dogs are much happier being treated like dogs than they are being treated like babies, or accessories.

Dogs were bred to walk and run and jump, and some of them have strong hunting tendencies in their genes. Is it fair to take a terrier (a breed that has long been bred for hunting rats and other small prey) and carry it with you everywhere, dress it in silly little coats and never let it be a dog?

People who really love their dogs will make sure that they get lots of exercise, that they will get to spend time outdoors, and that they get to do things that DOGS like to do.

Dogs don't really care for shopping....they tend to be in stores because their owners "need" them there, and not because it is an activity they particularly enjoy. Also, they like to walk...it's not much fun for them to always be in someone's arms or lap. And to only go outside to go to the bathroom is just plain mean and lazy on the owner's part.

I am not knocking animal lovers at all...but I have to agree with the pp that there are an awful lot of ladies out there who have made their dogs into surrogate children or, even worse, into their favorite accessory.

Misty

niffer
02-16-2007, 10:44 AM
My mums dog thinks he is a cat!

He was brought up surrounded by cats and now he acts just like one - he's 4 times the size of a large cat and looks like a cross between a fox and kangaroo. At Christmas he broke the couch because he sat on the back of it like the cats do. Thats why his nickname is Dumb Dog!

As for taking him in a shop - I wouldn't dare - he is one of the most obedient dogs I've had the pleasure of knowing but even he can't control that tail! Its a public safety risk! :teehee:

He only went in the car once and nearly crushed my 5 year old niece because he was so scared and wanted cuddles from the closest person. Won't be doing that again!

I think you gotta be careful with dogs in public, not because of the dog, but because of how strangers might react to and treat him. You can never tell how a dog will react under pressure.

HamaLee
02-16-2007, 10:49 AM
At Christmas he broke the couch because he sat on the back of it like the cats do.

My dog does that too! It's so weird...and he mushes up my couch cushions. :rofl: He sits in the car like that too...he's a 60lb dog and he crams himself in the teensy space above the backseat right up against the back windshield. Weirdo dog... :teehee:

So true about the waggy tails though, seriously! Varies from breed to breed, but some of those tails are weapons of mass destruction!

Stiney
02-16-2007, 10:50 AM
I'm sorry for my crankiness in my earlier post. In my defense, I worked in a mall that had a strict no pets policy, UNLESS you just bought the pet from the pet-store in the mall OR it was a "helper" dog (seeing eye, etc.)

And I worked at B&N, who ALSO have a no-pet policy (unless it's a helper pet), with managers who enforced the rule. Not all the stores in the mall did, but we did.

And then we had to listen to these spoiled, rich women complaining when we asked them to leave the store.

Honestly? I can't stop you from bringing your animal into the store if you want to, and the store managers/owners don't have a problem with it. It's your prerogative. But don't get all huffy and start screaming at store employees when they try to enforce store policies. The employees you are screaming at aren't the ones who made the rules, and the rules are there for a reason, not just to inconvenience you.

stitchwitch
02-16-2007, 11:03 AM
Never really bothered me. I'm allergic to alot of things, bad, overdone perfume is one of them but alot of women still glob it on and think they are doing the world a favor by stinking up the place. As far as dirty, I've seen some grimy kids I didn't want to be next to in stores also. Kids coughing, sneezing, drooling and wiping their hands on stuff. Gross. I guess everyone has their quirks to what does and doesn't bother them but people usually irk me a whole lot more than animals. They're a whole lot dirtier too. :teehee:

iza
02-16-2007, 11:03 AM
I agree that I wouldn't take my dog with me in any store. However, if the store has the policy of accepting dogs, well don't be surprise if you see dogs in there. If their policy is not to accept dogs, then I also expect to have the rule respected otherwise it's unfair to people who do respect it. In the end, whichever side you are, if you don't like the store's policy, stop going! :shrug:

syndactylus
02-16-2007, 11:25 AM
if you have to hate someone, pick the owner, not the dog. I'm sure the dog would prefer a nice clean blanket too!

same goes for bratty kids with bad parents.

Kaydee
02-16-2007, 12:17 PM
Even though I don't own a dog, I am a dog lover and want a doggy desperatly (seriously, I'm like a 5 year old who wants a puppy) but can't have one in my apartment :waah: I do agree though that dogs shouldn't be treated like people. I hope I don't offend anyone, but I think its so silly when a person carries their dog everywhere with them. Its not a baby, the dog knows how to walk, and probably wants to walk rather than being in a little bag or their owner's arms.

In regards to dogs in the store, I presonally don't have a problem with it as long as the dog isn't out of control...although I've only seen dogs in stores a few times so I don't know how often people bring their dogs in with them. The thing that confuses me is how do you know if you can bring your dog into a store? I've been in stores and have seen a few women carrying their little dogs with them. I'm always surprised just simply because I didn't know you could bring dogs with you into the stores, I mean there's no sign around saying anything about it either way, so how do you know? :shrug: Am I just out of the loop because I'm not a dog owner?

hunterjenn
02-16-2007, 12:17 PM
if you have to hate someone, pick the owner, not the dog. I'm sure the dog would prefer a nice clean blanket too!

Oh, I completely agree! It wasn't the dog's fault he was there... :teehee:

CarmenIbanez
02-16-2007, 12:34 PM
She's my baby, my life and I would throw myself in front of a bus to save her life, just as you would for your 'real kids'.

I feel the same way about my dog.



Yes, people are allergic to pets, but I can't walk through the perfume dept at any store or I'll get a migraine from the smells.

See, the problem with this statement, is that I expect perfume to be in the perfume aisle of the department store. That is why I don't go there. Because I am not allergic to dogs, but I am allergic to most artificial scents. But I don't expect to run into a dog in the store, and neither does my mother-in-law who is so allergic, she can go into anaphalactic shock and literally stop breathing when exposed to dog dander. (this is why she lives far away and I keep a dog :grin: )

I take my dog a lot of places. To petsmart. Driving around town. To peoples houses if they are invited. And I know that the things I can find in a department store where there is perfume, I can find other places and other stores. But Michaels is a pretty unique store. At least in our community, there are many things at Michaels you can't find somewhere else.

I go many places without my child. So I don't think it is weird to go many places without my dog. Especially if there is a chance my being there with my dog will hurt someone.

I agree that I wouldn't take my dog with me in any store. However, if the store has the policy of accepting dogs, well don't be surprise if you see dogs in there.

True, if that is the store's policy. But then it should be posted somewhere on the door, which it isn't at my Michaels. :shrug:

SandraEllen
02-16-2007, 12:39 PM
if you have to hate someone, pick the owner, not the dog.
same goes for bratty kids with bad parents.

:cheering: :cheering:

KathyinCali
02-16-2007, 12:40 PM
My opinion is rather flip flop...I LOVE dogs, I have two amazing German Shepherds that I love with all my heart. I wish that I could take them with me because they are so well behaved, love kids and are well...just incredible. Our local elementry school requests their presence at least once a year as a kind of show-n-tell about animals, how to treat them, the Shepherd's background (kids love them because they are what they see as Police Dogs) - HOWEVER, I would never take them in to any store other than our Pet and Feed store because I know so many people are terribly intimidated by them. I do though, take them everywhere possible that they can be exposed to people to keep them socialized.
That said, I have no problem seeing anyone in any store (prefer not the grocery store) as long as they are not running around out of control or barking.
Off the topic but on a lighter note, my dogs (Ranger and Scout) adore small dogs and small children. It lightens my heart to see a child wrap their arms around my big bad boys and hug them like they never want to let go or move ever so quietly around a small do so as not to scare them while they sniff away. Yep, I'm Kathy and I'm an animal lover :hug:

kellyh57
02-16-2007, 01:00 PM
We had a lady at our church that loved her dogs a little too much I think. She'd bring them to church and they'd sit in the car the whole time- 1 1/2 hours average. They were little pomeranians I think- little fuzzballs. They'd let them out to run/potty/whatever after service. If they had to go inside after that, they'd just bring them in. She "just couldn't bear to leave them at home" she claimed. The dogs would jump and get all anxious anytime anyone was near the car. If you tried to talk to them, they'd hide. I truly believe these dogs would be happy at home. (It's not like she was miles away from home and wouldn't be back in time to let them out or anything. They had no NEED to be there.)

There was a girl there that was VERY afraid of dogs. She was 10-12 and embarrassed by her fear. Little dogs scared her too. Every time she'd see the dogs, she'd run away and hide. Her friends would try to talk her out of it. Of course, that embarrassed her more. Her parents tried everything, but just knew not to have dogs around her. Now, when the dogs would come in the church, you had to deal with this girl being scared. The lady with the dogs just blew it off saying they were little and wouldn't hurt anyone. (I've heard the same thing from owners of dogs that have viciously attacked or killed people.)

That being said, you never know who you're going to run into when you take your dog out in public. How would you feel if you took your dog into a store (like Michaels) and happened upon a child afraid of dogs that had to leave the store because of it? Also, you have no clue how your dog will react in all situations. Your dog may not ever have bitten, but they don't interpret things like we do, and bringing them into human situations makes them nervous and could lead to that vicious attack. (Yeah, I know keeping them on a leash is necessary, but still, someone may still come up to pet them and they could be scared and go nuts.)


Just my 2 cents, or 3 or 4 maybe :)

bailsmom
02-16-2007, 01:07 PM
Yes, people are allergic to pets, but I can't walk through the perfume dept at any store or I'll get a migraine from the smells.

See, the problem with this statement, is that I expect perfume to be in the perfume aisle of the department store. That is why I don't go there. Because I am not allergic to dogs, but I am allergic to most artificial scents. But I don't expect to run into a dog in the store, and neither does my mother-in-law who is so allergic, she can go into anaphalactic shock and literally stop breathing when exposed to dog dander. (this is why she lives far away and I keep a dog :grin: )

The one reason I wrote about the perfume counter is that back home there is this mall that you have to walk through that dept to get to the mall faster or you have to go completely around to either side of the store to get around it. As is the case for a lot of stores I frequent. I'm not saying they all are like that, but quite a few are arranged like that.

Plus the annoying squirty people spraying it on me, sheesh, I'm always the target of them. Maybe I stink. :roflhard: :roflhard:

hunterjenn
02-16-2007, 01:11 PM
True, if that is the store's policy. But then it should be posted somewhere on the door, which it isn't at my Michaels. :shrug:

See, exactly. Mine either. In fact, since this created such a hullaballoo here, I emailed customer service last night to ask. They just emailed me back with the corporate address and phone number, but no answer to whether they allow pets (good customer service, eh?).

We had a lady at our church that loved her dogs a little too much I think. She'd bring them to church and they'd sit in the car the whole time- 1 1/2 hours average.

An hour and a half in the CAR?! Now that's just mean. How can someone claim to love dogs and then abuse them like that? You'd never do that to a child...

CarmenIbanez
02-16-2007, 01:13 PM
Plus the annoying squirty people spraying it on me, sheesh, I'm always the target of them. Maybe I stink. :roflhard: :roflhard:


OMG the squirty people! They had to stop the quirty people at our mall because a lady was squirted and called the police!! She told them she did not want to be squirted, and they were going to arrest the employee for assault. The store agreed to pay a fine and stopped having squirty people.

:roflhard: :roflhard:


back home there is this mall that you have to walk through that dept to get to the mall faster or you have to go completely around to either side of the store to get around it.

This is like the parking lots of fastfood places where you have to walk through the drive thru lane to get in the restaurant. My husband was hit by a car this way!!! That is really frustrating about your mall. I wonder what they would think if you walked around with a gas mask on????

syndactylus
02-16-2007, 01:17 PM
[quote="kellyh57"]We had a lady at our church that loved her dogs a little too much I think. She'd bring them to church and they'd sit in the car the whole time- 1 1/2 hours average. They were little pomeranians I think- little fuzzballs. They'd let them out to run/potty/whatever after service. If they had to go inside after that, they'd just bring them in. She "just couldn't bear to leave them at home" she claimed. The dogs would jump and get all anxious anytime anyone was near the car. If you tried to talk to them, they'd hide. I truly believe these dogs would be happy at home. (It's not like she was miles away from home and wouldn't be back in time to let them out or anything. They had no NEED to be there.)

... The lady with the dogs just blew it off saying they were little and wouldn't hurt anyone. (I've heard the same thing from owners of dogs that have viciously attacked or killed people.)

... Also, you have no clue how your dog will react in all situations. Your dog may not ever have bitten, but they don't interpret things like we do, and bringing them into human situations makes them nervous and could lead to that vicious attack. (Yeah, I know keeping them on a leash is necessary, but still, someone may still come up to pet them and they could be scared and go nuts.)
[quote]

the thing about all of this is, she was clearly an unfit dog owner - and anyone with dogs who bite and sadly stereotypically any women with small pampered dogs are too.
but as long as human rights supercede animal rights, there's not much of anything anyone else can do about that until they actually have to destroy the dog. except maybe sic cesar milan on them. but I don't think he takes involuntary cases.

stitchwitch
02-16-2007, 01:22 PM
I must say, I've never seen too many people bringing their dogs in stores here. Maybe five I can count in my entire lifetime. :shrug:

HamaLee
02-16-2007, 01:24 PM
The lady with the dogs just blew it off saying they were little and wouldn't hurt anyone. (I've heard the same thing from owners of dogs that have viciously attacked or killed people.)


And small dogs actually tend to be more aggressive and likely to bite than the big "scary" dogs like German Shepards, Pitbulls, Rottweilers (all of which I love! Beautiful animals). And there are far MORE dog bites, attacks, maulings, serioius injuries from "family" dogs like Golden Retrievers, Labradors, and Spaniels (statistically most frequent biter) than there are from any of the breeds that towns go all nutso and ban (i.e., Pits, Germans, Rotties). And in fact, the majority of reported "pitbull attacks" aren't in fact Pitbulls--they're misidentified mixes or other breeds entirely.

iza
02-16-2007, 01:34 PM
True, if that is the store's policy. But then it should be posted somewhere on the door, which it isn't at my Michaels.

I totally agree with that. The least a store can do is to tell their customers about their policies. I hate stores that "pick and choose" their rules. You allow dogs or you don't, and if you do, tell your customers!

I know in Nova Scotia some institutions actually declared perfume as a health hazard. I don't remember all the details, but you but can't get in some places if you wear perfume, whether it's subtle or not!

1to1
02-16-2007, 01:59 PM
Daisy is our puppy sometimes I call her my "baby" but she is our pet first. She sleeps with me and puts her head on my pillow. :oops: Yes, I love :heart: her but I do NOT let her lick my face, YUK! We all have our limits.

The only store I would take her into would be a PET STORE! :fingerwag:

bailsmom
02-16-2007, 05:52 PM
back home there is this mall that you have to walk through that dept to get to the mall faster or you have to go completely around to either side of the store to get around it.

This is like the parking lots of fastfood places where you have to walk through the drive thru lane to get in the restaurant. My husband was hit by a car this way!!! That is really frustrating about your mall. I wonder what they would think if you walked around with a gas mask on????

:roflhard: :roflhard: :roflhard:

Thanks for the laugh!! What a sight that would be, huh?

kellyh57
02-16-2007, 06:06 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but going back to this:

And there are far MORE dog bites, attacks, maulings, serioius injuries from "family" dogs like Golden Retrievers, Labradors, and Spaniels (statistically most frequent biter) than there are from any of the breeds that towns go all nutso and ban (i.e., Pits, Germans, Rotties).

I think rotweilers are adorable! My brother had a rot mix (they found the dog and tried to find the owner but eventually kept her). She was the sweetest, nicest dog I knew! She used to open the window and go out on the roof and nap while everyone was gone! Anyway. I don't think it's the breed at all. I think it's all in the owner. These "macho" guys that want mean dogs, go out and get the "meanest" dog they know of whether it be a pitbull, rotweiler, akita, whatever. They leave the dog in the backyard and show it off to all of their friends. They treat the dog like a prize instead of a pet. Then, one day the dog goes off and bites a neighbor kid and soon all of those breeds are banned. I think responsible owners raise good dogs, no matter what the breed. My parents have had 3 cocker spaniels and none of them have ever bitten a soul even when provoked. They'd be awful watchdogs :) It's all in the owner and how they train the dog. But, they also need to realize that dogs can't be expected to behave like humans. They are going to get frustrated and who knows what they'll do.

Kelly

momwolf
02-16-2007, 07:33 PM
WOW,Thanks to the people who agree with me. :hug:HamaLee pretty much sumed up what I meant.(Thank you HamaLee :muah: )I love my dogs enough to let them be dogs.They love to go for a ride in the truck with me,NEVER IN THE OPEN BOX,I have a crew crab and they ride in the back seat.I have big dogs (Lab mixes)and they love to chase squirrels up trees and guard the house.They do many tricks and they are very well behaved.People actually ask me to bring my dogs with me when I visit.They pull the grandkids around on sleds and in the wagon.They keep me company and know when I'm sad and try to cheer me up.They usally do too.That is just a few of the things my dogs love to do and that is what dogs are suppose to do.Dogs are suppose to help people,not be treated like humans where people paint there nails put bows in their fur and carry them around.Dogs want to be with people,they are pack animals. It's just to bad dogs can't pick there owners.I rescued both of mine from shelters and would hate not to have a dog as a companion.Maybe thats the word we should be using here,COMPANION.Dogs are not human and it's sad to see dogs treated like they are.Dogs just want to have fun and fun is not being treated like a child.So thats my 2 cents again.Hug your dog and give him a pat from me .

miccisue
02-16-2007, 07:58 PM
WOW,Thanks to the people who agree with me. :hug:HamaLee pretty much sumed up what I meant.(Thank you HamaLee :muah: )I love my dogs enough to let them be dogs.They love to go for a ride in the truck with me,NEVER IN THE OPEN BOX,I have a crew crab and they ride in the back seat.I have big dogs (Lab mixes)and they love to chase squirrels up trees and guard the house.They do many tricks and they are very well behaved.People actually ask me to bring my dogs with me when I visit.They pull the grandkids around on sleds and in the wagon.They keep me company and know when I'm sad and try to cheer me up.They usally do too.That is just a few of the things my dogs love to do and that is what dogs are suppose to do.Dogs are suppose to help people,not be treated like humans where people paint there nails put bows in their fur and carry them around.Dogs want to be with people,they are pack animals. It's just to bad dogs can't pick there owners.I rescued both of mine from shelters and would hate not to have a dog as a companion.Maybe thats the word we should be using here,COMPANION.Dogs are not human and it's sad to see dogs treated like they are.Dogs just want to have fun and fun is not being treated like a child.So thats my 2 cents again.Hug your dog and give him a pat from me .

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. To me it sounded like you felt someone should only have a dog if they were going to be used for hunting, tracking, search and rescue, etc.

My dog (or dogs, as has been the case in the past) ARE members of my family. Do I paint their nails, put bows in their hair, etc.? No, but I have been known to put a funny hat on them for a picture now and then. I do not have outsided dogs, they are inside with me. I snuggle with them, play with them, and they patiently listen to my rants or tears about bad days. So, does talking to them in "human language" make it so I'm treating them like a human? If so, guilty as charged. I don't pull the "Paris Hilton" thing, though.....although, to be fair, some dogs anymore are sooooooooo tiny that I could actually see them being stepped on or squashed if they were on a leash in a crowded area. Seriously.]

Still, I have no problems with dogs in stores, or sitting in the "kiddie seat" of a cart. Kids have all kinds of nasty germs, too. And, maybe this woman mistakenly figured that by putting the blanket on the seat she was being polite about keeping the seat cleaner than had the dog been sitting there "butt naked" so to speak. She may have been misguided but had her heart in the right place.

Oh yes, and I have yet to see a dog in a store create the nerve shattering frenzy that a misbehaving child does.....maybe because most people who would bring a dog into a store make sure it behaves - not so with parents.

JMHO.

imported_Knitty_Kat
02-16-2007, 08:11 PM
Well, I have a four year old son and a Chihuahua. Guess what? My Chi goes to Michael's with me more often than my son. Why? Because he acts much better LOL Really, it's better than when people take their horrendous acting children into the store. I hate it when I go to the book shop and someone in there has the perpetually screaming child, demanding a book and the mother sheepishly apologizing to everyone while her kid thrashes about on the floor like he's possessed by the devil.

My dog is treated like a dog, but he's very small and requires some extra special love. He has separation anxiety and gets kinda upset when I leave him alone. He's not destructive, but he has some little nervous habits. I just did get him to where he will sleep quietly in a crate at night. And Chihuahua dander is not an allergen. In fact, doctors recommend Chi's for kids with Asthma.

Mr. Reese gets alot of great responses, but he's not friendly to strangers and I tell people they cannot pet him when they ask, particularly small children. I would feel awful if he bit someone. Of course, there was this moronic woman in Michael's who stuck her face right in his and pet him (without my permission) and he curled his lip up at her. She gave me a look of disgust and said, "he's not people friendly, is he?" I said, "yeah, he is with people he knows". And the staff at my local Michael's love it when Reese comes in. They've never told me it is not permissible to bring in pet so long as they are A) on a collar and leash and B)are in someone's arms.

Personally, if the dog is tiny and doesn't make a bunch of noise and someone is holding the dog AND has them on a leash I don't see what the problem is.

HamaLee
02-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Anyway. I don't think it's the breed at all. I think it's all in the owner.... ...I think responsible owners raise good dogs, no matter what the breed.
Kelly

Exactly! :muah:

So, does talking to them in "human language" make it so I'm treating them like a human? If so, guilty as charged.

Not at all! (In my opinion of course). I talk to my dog in human language all the time...after all, it's the language I know. I don't baby talk or motherese my dog...but then I don't do that to small children or babies either :teehee: . I talk to him and give him commands and rewards in pretty much the same tone I'd talk to most of my friends. And I love 60lb snuggles and big sloppy dog kisses...but not everybody else does, so I put those on command and only honor/reward them when I give the command. That way, he doesn't go around slobbering on people willy nilly :happydance: .

imported_Knitty_Kat
02-16-2007, 08:20 PM
I was reading my post and it came across a bit harsh. So, I wanted to add that I don't dress my dog up because little clothes make him miserable. He does, however, enjoy being tucked into my tote bag or wrapped in my scarf. I don't take him everywhere with me. In fact, I only take him out if there is no one else around to kinda keep an eye on him. I would never ever take him into place where there is food, like the grocery store or a restaurant, because I think that's unsanitary. I wouldn't take him to the movie theatre. I do enjoy taking him with me to some stores where I know the people there are pet friendly.

As far as the woman with the nappy dog blankie..it does seem a bit inconsiderate when you can buy a dog carrier at Target for $20. If you dog is too big to fit in a carrier, it's too big to be carried around in a store (that isn't like a PetSmart).

hunterjenn
02-16-2007, 09:10 PM
I was reading my post and it came across a bit harsh.

:teehee: You're so sweet--I didn't think your post was harsh at all! I have two four-year-olds, and I agree! Kids pitching a fit in the store makes me nuts, too. If my kids do that, they get marched right out to the car and we go home. I have always hated hearing kids screech at their parents, or worse, parents screeching at their kids. Sometimes I totally want to call some parents in to social services, you know?

As far as the woman with the nappy dog blankie..it does seem a bit inconsiderate when you can buy a dog carrier at Target for $20. If you dog is too big to fit in a carrier, it's too big to be carried around in a store (that isn't like a PetSmart).

EXACTLY!!

And I wanted to thank Hama Lee for her input. :thumbsup: I agree 100% with everything you have said. For that matter, thanks to all of you. :) Wow--who knew this was such a hot-button issue! I knew I had strong feelings about it but I have strong feelings about everything...

phisch
02-16-2007, 09:13 PM
This is sad...I had a classmate in college who had a large dog. I think it was some sort of bulldog and a large one. She would take it to school with her and he'd sit in the car all day. All day! He could only get out during her breaks. When you are in art school, classes are three hours long. Imagine? A big dog in the back of a station wagon that long? She couldn't bear to leave him home. He was such a sweetie and I didn't like having to walk past her car on the way to class and have him look at me.

momwolf
02-16-2007, 09:14 PM
I talk to my dogs all the time and they respond back ,that is not treating them like a human.as long as it's not baby talk.



Separation anxiety sounds like a human disorder.I think he feels you have the anxiey and picks up on it.You feel bad so the dog picks up on that and reacts to how you are feeling. Most of the problems with dogs is they pick up on YOUR vibes and so they act nervous

bailsmom
02-16-2007, 11:30 PM
I hate it when I go to the book shop and someone in there has the perpetually screaming child, demanding a book and the mother sheepishly apologizing to everyone while her kid thrashes about on the floor like he's possessed by the devil.

Here!! :cheering: here!! :cheering:

My dog is treated like a dog, but he's very small and requires some extra special love. He has separation anxiety and gets kinda upset when I leave him alone. He's not destructive, but he has some little nervous habits. I just did get him to where he will sleep quietly in a crate at night. And Chihuahua dander is not an allergen. In fact, doctors recommend Chi's for kids with Asthma.

I have never heard of this. Good to know.

Mr. Reese gets alot of great responses, but he's not friendly to strangers and I tell people they cannot pet him when they ask, particularly small children. I would feel awful if he bit someone. Of course, there was this moronic woman in Michael's who stuck her face right in his and pet him (without my permission) and he curled his lip up at her. She gave me a look of disgust and said, "he's not people friendly, is he?" I said, "yeah, he is with people he knows".

We do the same thing. Especially with children when we take Bailey to the park, we always say no unless their parents are there with them. Then we give the kid a treat to give her and then she licks them when she's done eating it! She's fine with everyone EXCEPT when children run up to her, then she gets upset, so we have to tell them to go slow and steady and then she's fine.

bjc1050
02-17-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm another who is NOT bothered by dogs in stores. In fact, I'm likely to stop and say hello to the owner and the dog - specially yorkies. However, I don't usually take my dogs into stores with me...they are usually left at home where I believe they are more comfortable and I dont't have to hurry to do my shopping. I definitely think it's wrong to take them in the car and leave them in the car during hot summer time or freezing winter.

BTW, don't knock teeny tiny dogs. I grew up with boxer/great dane mixes and never gave little dogs much thought until a 6 lb. yorkie wandered into my life. Can't picture life without a yorkie although our current yorkie weighs about 15 lbs and is solid as a rock. :teehee: Big or small, I :heart: them all.

frostywolf
02-17-2007, 07:41 PM
And Chihuahua dander is not an allergen. In fact, doctors recommend Chi's for kids with Asthma.

This statement is not quite true. Dander from any breed of dog can cause an allergic reaction. Even the (so-called) hypoallergenic breeds. It all depends on the individual person's allergies. Of course, Chihuahuas are small, and therefore have less surface area to produce dander, so a person with an allergy may do better with a Chihuahua than, say, with a lab.

I would modify your statement to say that a person with an allergy would have a better chance with a chi than some other breeds, but there is NO guarantee.

Here (http://tinyurl.com/3cw69a) is a link to an old NY Times article that mentions the chihuahua/asthma theory.

Jan in CA
02-17-2007, 08:36 PM
I would also like to say that who really cares how one treats their dogs? All dogs want is to be loved and as long as one isn't treating them badly I don't think it's a big deal. If someone wants to talk baby talk to them I don't care... they don't live with me. :shrug:

bjc1050
02-18-2007, 11:57 AM
I would also like to say that who really cares how one treats their dogs? All dogs want is to be loved and as long as one isn't treating them badly I don't think it's a big deal. If someone wants to talk baby talk to them I don't care... they don't live with me. :shrug:

I agree completely! All that matters is if the dog has a loving home.

mwedzi
02-18-2007, 01:38 PM
I don't know. I like dogs (and almost all animals; mosquitos, i can do without), but I don't think I want them in most stores. And never eating establishments. I don't like having screaming children around, either, but they are people and dogs aren't. I just have different feelings about people than I do for dogs, so maybe it isn't logical, but I can't get with the idea that if people can or can't do X, then dogs should or shouldn't be able to do X, too.

Hmmm. I say this, but looking back, I'm almost always pleased to see a doggie (they're all "doggies" for me), in a store or not. :?? Guess my day-to-day experiences and my ideals don't match. Please, don't expect me to be consistent!

KellyK
02-18-2007, 03:22 PM
I have three dogs. Howie is a chi and he is VERY well behaved and goes with me wherever he is allowed. He "works" at the yarn store with me. He was raised going to work with me at a retirement community. If I had not worked in a pet-friendly environment, it would have been VERY hard to socialize him well. I appreciate stores that allow dogs in, because that is one way to help create a well-behaved, confident dog.

Sophie and Maddie are not as calm and confident as he is, so they dont go out with me. I am working slowly on more socialization for Sophie because she desperately WANTS to go and is VERY friendly, but gets barky. Maddie, well, Im just glad that she can finally relax her body. It took me several years after I adopted her to get her to this point... she's now 9 years old. She loves having visitors in our home, but gets VERY anxious out in public.

Howie loves children because he was raised with my niece who is just a few months older than he is. I take issue with parents who allow their children to RUN up to dogs they dont know.... children need to learn to be safe when meeting an unknown dog. Its a 2-way street.

I carry Howie around when there is too much foot traffic or when there is snow/salt on the sidewalk (the salt burns their pads). If I ASK him if he'd like to be carried, he turns sideways and PRESENTS himself to be picked up. He gives me hugs by shoving his head up under my chin. He likes to be carried and snuggled and held. He jumps up on my lap at home and gives me hugs without me asking for them. He is a snuggly guy. I didnt make him that way.... its his nature. He also snuggles my other dogs and they have never given him treats to do so. Sophie gives him baths... :shrug:

I babytalk my dogs because it is a tone of voice that is different than my usual... it lets them know Im happy with what they are doing without having to constantly feed them treats. Happy voice and lots of petting does the trick for us.

My dogs ARE my babies. And, although I ALWAYS try to be dilpomatic here, honestly, I dont appreciate being judged for treating them that way. I cannot have my own children, and my dogs DO fulfill that part of me. I dont apologize for that. And, with respect, Momwolf, suggesting that if someone cant be around their own children they should instead volunteer at this place or the other, is very insensitive. How can you judge what someone else should do to fill that void? That is SUCH a personal decision! And, nothing in life is that black-and-white.

I give my dogs a VERY GOOD home. I adopted all 3 of them from various places. I took them to puppy classes. They are well fed, well socialized, happy and LOVED.

The problem I see with the woman in Michaels is that she was standing in the way of other customers being inconsiderate. She could have been just as inconsiderate without a dog. She could have been adjusting her purse "just so". I dont think it had anything to do with a dog.

Wow. This is the closest Ive ever come to "reacting" to any post on this forum... :teehee:

annomalley
02-18-2007, 03:41 PM
I sort of lurk here, but I had to chime in on this subject.

I love dogs to death. When my biological clock started ticking a little louder, it wasn't a baby I wanted. It was a puppy. :) I would love to have a dog, but my apartment complex doesn't allow dogs. First thing I'm doing when I buy a house someday is I'm getting a dog.

When I was growing up, we always had a family dog. When I was a teenager, we had a yellow lab. He was a wonderful dog and he was good with kids. He was so patient. He let my brother play football with him and wrestle with him and dress him up (much to the dog's chagrin) and he always played with the rest of us, too. If you were upset, he'd come over and he'd nuzzle at your hand or your knee to try to cheer you up. He was well behaved and we could let him run around in the yard and we didn't have to worry about him running off. He was an inside/outside dog.

We lived next door to an apartment building, so there were always people coming and going from next door. One guy moved in and for some reason, our dog did not like him. When our dog saw this guy, he (the dog) went psycho and became vicious. This guy never came over, never provoked the dog, or never did anything to him. The guy would be going about his business, walking to his car or whatever, and our dog would just lose it. I mean, it was total Jeckyll/Hyde. One day, we had the dog out, and this guy came home, got out of his car, and walked towards his building, and our dog took off after him. Luckily, my dad caught our dog before he attacked this guy, but after that, my parents made the decision to get rid of the dog. There was no way we could keep this dog and risk having him attack this neighbor guy and the dog was old enough to where it wasn't something that, we thought at the time, you could necessarily train out of him. We were all upset, but my brother and my sister didn't take it very well at all. If this happened now, the dog would have been taken to someone to be rehabilitated.

The same thing happened, to a lesser degree, with a dog my sister used to have and my husband. My husband loves animals and never teased or mistreated my sister's dog, but that dog had to be tied up whenever we were over, because the dog just went nuts when she saw him.

I don't feel that dogs belong in stores, except pet stores, or if they're assistance dogs, for this very reason. If I were a store owner or manager, I would be very leery of letting the general public bring in dogs for liability reasons alone. I would be a little leery of bringing my own dog into my store, as well. We live in a litigious society and personal responsibility seems to be a dying concept, and not everyone is going to steer clear of the dog if they're allergic or they are not going to be watching if their kid starts provoking someone else's dog and the dog reacts. If I were a store owner, I would not want that sort of liability. And knowing how some people alone behave in stores, public bathrooms, etc, do you really think that everyone would clean up after the dog if the dog made a "mess"? I think most people would clean up after their dogs, but there are those who probably won't.

Maybe it's just where I live or that I don't get out much, but the only time I've ever seen dogs in a store other than a pet store, the dog was an assistance dog. I was actually kind of surprised to hear that non-pet stores allow people to bring in their dogs. (And then I was kind of grossed out when I read about the nasty blanket. :ick: ) Or maybe it's just that I don't get out that much. :D

miccisue
02-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Someone posted about separation anxiety, and was shot down as the anxiety being on the part of the owner, not the dog.

In some cases that may be true, but I also know that dogs DO experience separation anxiety regardless of how the owner feels. A dog that was taken from the litter too early, not socialized properly, poorly bred.....there could be any number of reasons.

I say this because of personal experience. As a kid, we had a dog who, anytime we left him alone for the day, barked the whole time. Generally, we were going to spend the day with my grandparents and were only gone for 6 or 7 hours (and no, it wasn't due to not being able to do his "duties" as back in the dark ages we still did the paper-training and always left paper down for him), and we didn't make any fuss about leaving him alone. Even now, my Golden has a fit when my husband leaves.....whines and cries like nobody's business. Doesn't matter if I'm sitting right next to her. We've had her since she was 8 weeks old, and she goes to work with us every day (we started that as a way of house training her as we work 11 hour days and even though we get home for lunch, we couldn't guarantee being able to get home for other more frequent breaks). She adores people, but we keep her behind the counter so that people that don't like dogs don't get freaked out. Mostly, people are tickled to death to see her and to lean over and pet her. So, she's well socialized, not separated from the litter too early, etc. but she still tends to get upset when "daddy" leaves. Is he upset and anxious? Nope. So, can't say he's transferring his anxiety to the dog.

So, I personally disagree - I think dogs can, and often do have separation anxiety that is NOT the fault of the owner.

JMHO.

momwolf
02-18-2007, 04:58 PM
To all of you who treat your dogs as kids all I can say is watch the Dog Whisper on National Geographic Channel or read his book Cesar's Way or go to his web site is one of the best,no he is the best people trainer of dogs there is . I'm not going to comment on this subject anymore because I feel it is fruitless to try and change people who don't want to change. I help animals the best way I know how and most of the time it's to direct them to Cesar Millan training and his shows.
Sorry if I offended anybody.I have worked with so many dogs that have been screwed up by people that sometimes I just vent when I shouldn't.
So this will be my last enter here.Thanks to all who agreed with me and those that don't PLEASE watch Cesar Millan on TV or read his book ,You will never think of your dog in the same way again.Your dog will love you for it http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Mod squad was here.

KellyK
02-18-2007, 05:15 PM
I help animals the best way I know how

That's all ANY of us do.... :heart:

miccisue
02-18-2007, 08:00 PM
To all of you who treat your dogs as kids all I can say is watch the Dog Whisper on National Geographic Channel or read his book Cesar's Way or go to his web site is one of the best,no he is the best people trainer of dogs there is . I'm not going to comment on this subject anymore because I feel it is fruitless to try and change people who don't want to change. I help animals the best way I know how and most of the time it's to direct them to Cesar Millan training and his shows.
Sorry if I offended anybody.I have worked with so many dogs that have been screwed up by people that sometimes I just vent when I shouldn't.
So this will be my last enter here.Thanks to all who agreed with me and those that don't PLEASE watch Cesar Millan on TV or read his book ,You will never think of your dog in the same way again.Your dog will love you for it http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/



Mod squad was here.


I guess that's why he's getting sued. :??

figaro
02-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Where did you hear that Cesar is getting sued? I have searched all over, Googled him, looked at CNN and cannot find anything about him getting sued?

I can watch his shows all day and I would love for him to come and let me know why my dog will just stand and stare at me. He is not hungry, does not want to go outside (I don't blame him, its 20 degrees here right now!), he will just stand there and stare? And I let him know that we (hubby and I) are the leaders here, not him.

CarmenIbanez
02-18-2007, 10:13 PM
Trying to mind control you. That is what my dog does. She just sits and stares at me. And I can hear here singing that little song in her head, trust in meeeeeeeeeeeee.

figaro
02-18-2007, 10:25 PM
Both my husband and I really cannot stand it when he does this. I end up telling him (over and over again) to go and lay down. Just lay down dog! :hair: :tap: I would have to say that that is his most annoying trait. Although him following me around the house constantly hearing click click click click of his nails, that gets to me like nails on a chalkboard!

ecb
02-18-2007, 10:46 PM
People are allergic, yes, but there are also people allergic to perfumes. I wear perfume. I'm sorry if it makes you sneeze.

I would love to wear my snake around my neck to every store I go to, but for some reason smelly, noisy dogs are much more accepted than my quiet, gentle snake. :shrug:

I agree and disagree

I agree about the unstinky snakes that people have absolute conniption fits about (so I never bring them into public view without consent, I PROTECT my Pets fro the Big old scary monsters out there)

and I disagree about perfume

I AM allergic to perfume and begin wheezing fairly quickly if its the wrong brand (especially if its something someone chooses to BATHE in)
My Daughters have learned early that Mom is going to need a full nebulizer treatment if they use cheep nail polish remover or certain perfumes or lotions. I avoid crowded places where people who do not consider others may be.

I am frequently nervous about a Dog in a store, but am also allergic to Cats and my Eyes swell and i need a Resp Tx if I touch one (think casual or antique book stores)
I know my allergies are not a reason for the world to adjust itself
I have a kid with a Wheat allergy - So we avoid Diners and friend food places (not to mention bakeries), my Youngest is showing signs of a Casein allergy (not just lactose) so I do not take the family to the ice cream parlor often or to a cheese bar.

sorry to go on and on
but I do agree about a casual pet unrestrained in ANY business establishment
unless the owner knows it well enough to take on the "responsibility" it should be secured so I do not have to deal with any anaphylaxis or a Bit Child (me being a Nurse and all)

JMHO

ecb

ecb
02-18-2007, 11:08 PM
:Plus the annoying squirty people spraying it on me, sheesh, I'm always the target of them. Maybe I stink. :roflhard: :roflhard:

I had this happen to me
I immediatly broke out in HUGE welts and could not find my inhailor in my bag. I was fine in the end, but it took some benedryl that had me walking around drunk for a while (loratiadine was not OTC yet)
the lady in the perfume section that spreayed me in the face and neck was purported to have been fired
she never hunted me down so i do not know for shre

ecb

ecb
02-18-2007, 11:22 PM
:teehee: You're so sweet--I didn't think your post was harsh at all! I have two four-year-olds, and I agree! Kids pitching a fit in the store makes me nuts, too. If my kids do that, they get marched right out to the car and we go home. I have always hated hearing kids screech at their parents, or worse, parents screeching at their kids. Sometimes I totally want to call some parents in to social services, you know?

I live right near a Ski resort, so I get a membership for each of the kids and take them as often as possible
I have found that as big and scary as I am to adults, all I have to do it give the unruley kids "THE LOOK" and they shape up (or go run hide)
most of the moms at the hill are never offended when i correct their kids
I am not a Chider type
I am a 'Hey, here is an idea, can you hear me when you yell like that?" in a whisper, AS i unwrap a Chocolate
or hey, do you know how many people TOUCHED the outside of that creamer you are chewing on before it got to you"
the kids seem to listen

granted npot all, but more than not

ecb

miccisue
02-19-2007, 09:23 AM
Where did you hear that Cesar is getting sued? I have searched all over, Googled him, looked at CNN and cannot find anything about him getting sued?

I can watch his shows all day and I would love for him to come and let me know why my dog will just stand and stare at me. He is not hungry, does not want to go outside (I don't blame him, its 20 degrees here right now!), he will just stand there and stare? And I let him know that we (hubby and I) are the leaders here, not him.

A gentleman who sent his Dalmation to Cesar for training is the one suing. Apparently the dog was put into a choke chain and then placed on a treadmill for a long period of time. According to the suit, the man found his dog bleeding from the nose and mouth, his esophagus was in poor condition, and there was also trauma to the dogs hind legs.

I'm surprised you didn't find it on Google.....I just tried it and "Cesar Millian lawsuit" popped right up.

KellyK
02-19-2007, 12:08 PM
I watch Caesar Milan... I think he's hysterical. :rofl: I have used some of his techniques (the less "physical" ones) and now Sophie is much better at leash walking. But... WOW. That is really scary about that Dalmation. :pout:

cmello
02-19-2007, 12:32 PM
I guess what bothers me about all these people bringing dogs into stores (I have seen someone walk out of Nordstroms with their dog), is that at the local pet store, where every dog owner seems to bring in their dog, I have seen dogs pee on the merchandise.

Is that fair to the store owner or to other shoppers? I think not.

Although the real problem seems to be dog-owners and not the dogs. The owners of the dogs ignore that their dogs are marking the merchandise. If you point it out to them, they don't seem to care.

In another pet store, I was with a no-kill cat adoption group. The cats were in cages. Someone walked their chocolate lab puppy right through the middle of the cats...scaring all of them except the one I was watching.

My cat was a big adult male who had been abandoned by his previous owners so he had spent time on the streets. From his time on the streets it appeared he had developed a fearless hatred of dogs. That poor puppy just barely escaped getting a nasty scratch from the huge paw of M&M, my cat up for adoption, because I stepped in between M&M and the dog and warned the owner to keep her puppy away from the cats. (This cat went after the neighbors small dog on leash and it also went after passing german shepherds on leash.)

Carol

bjc1050
02-19-2007, 12:44 PM
Frankly, I wouldn't even be bothered with dogs (well behaved) in restaurants. We don't put our dogs outside just because meals are being prepared or eaten. I've never seen dogs in restaurant kitchens.

Friskums
02-19-2007, 12:49 PM
Cesar Milan is the Monty Roberts of the dog world. :shrug:

KellyK
02-19-2007, 01:41 PM
Monty Roberts?? :??

AnreeAce
02-19-2007, 02:17 PM
Monty Roberts, The Horse Whisperer. (http://www.montyroberts.com/)

KellyK
02-19-2007, 02:25 PM
:teehee:

feminine_earth
02-19-2007, 02:30 PM
I have no problem with people bringing their well-behaved dogs into stores, as long as these stores are not selling food. And when I say "well-behaved", I mean in all aspects--not a continuous barker or jumper, definitely not a biter, toilet-trained, etc.). I, personally, don't bring my dog (who is the little light and joy of my life--but I am definitely a "dog person") into stores, but this is only because he is NOT well-behaved, and I respect the fact that not all people love being jumped on. :teehee:

What I do NOT agree with, is people leaving their dogs in the car for longer than five or ten minutes (and here in Florida, the summer weather is too dangerous to leave them even for that long!) at a time. This is wrong and dangerous. Even when the weather is nice, a dog could easily dehydrate himself (many dogs excessively pant and drool when they're nervous) or injure himself by trying to escape. Not to mention he could be stolen! If you wouldn't leave your child in the car, you shouldn't leave your dog in the car.

And for whoever said that separation anxiety is solely a human trait, I can assure you, this is not true. Dogs are pack animals. In the presence of a dog pack, human family members usually fill this void for dogs. When the dog is "abandoned" by his "pack", he cannot fulfill his doggy duties as being a member of this pack. He can get frustrated, destructive, afraid, lonely, etc. Animals experience emotions. Not all the same emotions as humans, but they do experience many of them: fear, attachment, happiness, excitement, loneliness. They are definitely not humans. I don't think we should treat them like humans. But, that doesn't stop them from thinking we are dogs, and therefore treating us as members of their pack. :thumbsup:

Friskums
02-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Monty Roberts?? :??

He started out as this huge fad trainer for horses (and a bunch more cropped up) but then, after years of his teachings, people found out that the things he said to have done, or how he was raised wasn't all 100% true. Though I do appreciate the fact that because of him, "natural horsemanship" is much more well known and accepted now.
To me, Cesar Milan is another fad trainer. Not saying his techniques aren't correct, and his way of thinking/training is wrong, just that it doesn't make sense to me to put so much stock into something you see on tv, when it doesn't even show everything. I know he spends more than 15 minutes with the dogs he's training... that's the show I want to see.

puppyluv
02-20-2007, 01:16 AM
If I could find a craft store that allowed dogs, but DID NOT ALLOW CHILDREN, I'd shop there *exclusively*.

I'd also settle for a sign out front:
"if your child is cranky/crying/whining/throwing a temper tantrum, please go home and try your luck again later".

imported_Knitty_Kat
02-20-2007, 01:34 AM
I still don't understand what is inherently wrong with looking at a dog like a child. It's one thing to let your pet run amok. That's not treating the dog like a child. Even children require discipline and need to be shown right from wrong. Bear in mind that not everyone can have or desires to have children but still love animals. I see nothing wrong with someone "babying" their pets.

My Chi, Mr. Reese Quiverspoon, has some issues with separation anxiety not because I make him that way. I'm not a nervous person around dogs (I presently live with my parents who own the most sappy and loving Pit Bull you could ever meet). Reese's problem is that he was taken from his mother before being properly weened. The owners had a female they bred with a champion show dog and then claimed they had to re-locate to Puerto Rico and couldn't take the puppies. They had to leave quickly, so I offered to take one of the puppies. He's a great dog, though and he's getting much better about not going everywhere with me.

I've tried to get into "The Dog Whisperer" to no avail. I can't put my finger on it, but there's just something about Cesar Milan and his methods that rub me the wrong way. But hey, who knows? My mom owns all of his DVDs and swears by his methods. Too bad the "shh" noise doesn't work on my four-year-old son. :teehee:

cmello
02-20-2007, 04:48 AM
If I could find a craft store that allowed dogs, but DID NOT ALLOW CHILDREN, I'd shop there *exclusively*.

I'd also settle for a sign out front:
"if your child is cranky/crying/whining/throwing a temper tantrum, please go home and try your luck again later".

Since my child is 19 years old, I heartily agree with you. :wink:

1st year of my child's life, I took him w/ me because my husband was away on business a lot.

If my child started to misbehave, we did not check out, we just left immediately w/o whatever we were shopping for. (wish I could do the same w/ cranky husband when shopping)

By the time he was two, I had learned to always leave home w/o my child when going shopping. (don't enjoy shopping for anything except groceries w/ husband)

Maybe it was not fair of me, but now that I was shopping sans child, I found ANY misbehaving child really IRRITATING and still do. The parent may be overwhelmed but I still glare at them. I like children, I just don't like cranky/crying/whining/tantrum throwing/running around and screaming children. They belong at home. If it is my child in my home :oops: the child goes on time out in his room.

But the shopping w/ children thing is just like the dog goes everywhere thing -- it's the parents/owners fault. If your child or dog is misbehaving, you should apologize and leave immediately.

My husband had different ideas. When son was very small baby, he had arranged w/ friends to go to a movie (ironic movie choice: 4 Men and a Baby) and since we could not find a sitter we took little Thomas w/ us.

Weren't there long when he (Thomas not husband) started to cry. I was so embarassed, I got up and took him to the deserted lobby. Later, my husband comes out to the lobby and asks when I am coming back into the theater. I told him Thomas and I were staying out in the lobby. I was not going to inflict my cranky baby on the other people in the theater.

HamaLee
02-20-2007, 10:08 AM
That poor puppy just barely escaped getting a nasty scratch from the huge paw of M&M, my cat up for adoption, because I stepped in between M&M and the dog and warned the owner to keep her puppy away from the cats. (This cat went after the neighbors small dog on leash and it also went after passing german shepherds on leash.)


Not to get all cranky, but cats need to be under just as much control as dogs--whether that means they're on cat leashes/harnesses or caged in public. The idiot lab owner should not have taken her leashed dog through a cat gauntlet (unless of course you were at the front entrance and she had no choice...if that was the case, well...you probably should have been in another location), but the dog was on a leash (again, I assume..apologies if it was not)...if those cats were not caged they should have been under strict control. Had the cat scratched or injured the dog it would have been the cat/cat owner's fault, not the dogs. Same with the german shep and the neighbor dogs. My apologies if the cat was, in fact, caged and lashing through the bars or something.

That is one thing that annoys me...cats are never required to be under the same control as dogs, towns don't require licenses for them (but do for dogs) etc....and cats just roam free, scratch and bite people willy nilly, and actively provoke dogs. Nobody seems to care (at least around here) they just say "ehh....that's what cats do." But then they give the stinkeye to dog owners. I don't get it. :shrug:

cmello
02-20-2007, 01:27 PM
In response to HamaLee:

M&M was in a cage. Cats for adoption are always in cages.

We were not at the front entrance. We were in the back near the cat supplies. The dog was leashed.

The owner deliberately chose to take her puppy through the cat gauntlet while wandering with her dog in the store. All the other cats in their cages were scared and cowering. All the other dog owners in the store kept their dogs away from the cat cages in consideration for the caged cats. There were other paths she could have chosen in the store. She did not have to go through the middle of the cat cages.

A caged cat can get its paw between the bars. 99% of the cats won't. Which is why the dog owner probably felt safe taking her dog through an area with a dozen cats in cages. As I said, except for M&M, it was traumatic for the other cats.

Most cats are not friendly with strangers. They generally run away from strangers.

To get bit or scratched by a cat, you have to be a stranger to the cat and you have to force your attention on the strange cat by cornering it and attempting to pick it up or pet it. I think this is why there are no leash laws for cats.

Before I ever pet a strange dog on leash, I always ask permission first and the dog has to be giving signals that it is a friendly dog first. I never approach strange cats or even the neighbors cats.

In the new pet store I go to, cats up for adoption are in cages in a room off to the side with a metal fence across the entrance to prevent wandering dogs from coming in. Any cats taken out of their cages are held -- they are not allowed on the ground to wander.

Dogs up for adoption in this new store are up front near the checkouts. They have cages but the adoption people have most of them out of the cages without leashes.

So there are two sides to the dog/cat issue...where dogs are treated differently, in a favorable way. There are lots of dog parks in California where dogs can roam unleashed. The dog park advocates have gone so far here that they wish to take apart the Golden Gate National Recreation Area Park so that a dog park can be established there. Others have pointed out that since there are cliffs for the dogs to fall off of, this is not the ideal place for a dog park.

Where I live, cats must be licensed. Unlicensed cats are subject to pickup by animal control just like unlicensed dogs.

As far as the incidents with neighbors dogs were concerned, M&M never went after a dog unless the dog approached where he already was lying or sitting -- in other words, the dog came into our yard after M&M.

All other cats I have known run away and hide as soon as they see a dog or even a human stranger, long before the dog or stranger is even close to the cat.

This is the only cat I have known who would stand his ground. Both cases occurred when my son and his friends were playing roller hockey in our driveway. M&M was lying in front of the goalie net (preventing all pucks from entering).

In both cases the dogs, even on leash, went out of their way to approach M&M within scratching distance. Neither dog was actually scratched. When it became clear to the owners that their dog was in danger, they pulled them back.

M&M was sometimes in our house but not often because he did not get along with our other cats. There are Alpha cats too. We already had an Alpha cat and M&M had an Alpha cat personality too. His animosity was toward other animals, not humans.

M&M was sick when we took him in. We took him to the vet to get him treatment. He lived in our garage. Our intent was always to find a family to adopt him.

M&M was unusual in many ways. He was totally docile around humans without dogs. I could give him pills and put drops in his eyes and he sat for me patiently without squirming, without spitting out the pills.

We warned the new owners about his attitude towards dogs and they said he would be an indoor cat only. My husband checked a year later to make sure they were happy with M&M and he was still an indoor only cat and perfectly happy with the idea.

Regarding leashing cats:

I have tried with two of my cats when they were kittens to train them to a leash. There are cat books that advocate it. Neither was amenable.

When I have seen cats in public with their owners (outside of their neighborhood), they are on leash and sitting on their owners shoulders.

Common house cats and feral cats are not dangerous like lions, cougars, tigers, leopards, pumas, bobcats, etc. For the most part, they are cowards.

If I had a pet leopard (yuck), I would definitely keep it leashed, even in the house.

Didn't mean to start a cat/dog war.

HamaLee
02-20-2007, 02:04 PM
Didn't mean to start a cat/dog war.

No war, no worries! :hug: I have a bit of the Devil's Advocate in me, but really...it's all about people being responsible and the fact that too many people aren't.

I want a kitty soooooo bad, but I know it's not the right time for me or my pup so it'll have to wait.

In response to HamaLee:

M&M was in a cage. Cats for adoption are always in cages.

We were not at the front entrance. We were in the back near the cat supplies....The owner deliberately chose to take her puppy through the cat gauntlet while wandering with her dog in the store.

And as mentioned, I wasn't sure of the details but clearly this situation? Another stupid dog owner not being aware of her surroundings and acting accordingly. Grr!

By the way, I'm totally surprised and entertained by the fact that you have to license your cats where you live! I've never heard of anything like that as it's the complete opposite around here. And people fight any kind of dog park tooth and nail (rather than advocate). Isn't it strange how wildly things differ from town to town...state to state?

I think this is a great and interesting thread to see all these perspectives and remain civil and respectful. :muah:

cmello
02-20-2007, 02:49 PM
Yes, the rules are different, attitudes are different.

In California, backyards are fenced with 6 foot high wooden fences and gated. Lots of people keep their dogs in their backyards. Only one of my cats has the temerity to walk on top of the fence of a backyard containing a dog. But she is not dumb or brave enough to go into such a yard. She's only passing by.

We have very vocal dog advocates in California. I have no problem with dog parks. It's good for the dogs to have someplace to run free larger than their backyards. But I hate to see an historic national monument, with ruins of buildings from early California, turned into a dog park. Dogs can currently visit the park on leash. There are plenty of other safe dog parks nearby.

On the beaches in California, one sees both dogs on leashes and dogs off leashes. The dogs off leash are all friendly. The rules may require leashes but I have never seen beach park personnel enforcing the leash rule.

My parents, when I was living with them, adopted an abandoned dog when they had 4 cats. The dog and cats got along just fine -- they ignored each other. The dog was so sweet and well behaved -- a pekingese -- found with no collar. It had been abandoned because it had a heart condition. It lived happily with us for three short years until it died of a heart attack. (I cannot mention its name because it was unbearably silly.)

My sister had a beagle and 2 cats. Lucy, the female cat ignored both the dog and the other cat (she was there first :grrr: ).

The dog and the other cat became quite fond of each other. Both were males. They liked each other enough to sleep together. I think the male cat thought Toby the beagle was his mom or something. Who knows?

When Toby was in his part of the back yard, the cat would come into the house through its cat flap and pick up things in its mouth to take out to Toby to play with or eat. Some kind of inter-species telepathic communication was going on there. (I am not mentioning the male cat's name because it too is totally silly.)

If I were going to have both cats and dogs in the house, the cat would have to start out as a kitten. Dogs, being smarter than cats, adapt to cats at any age. Since my cats are not kittens, this is an experiment that will have to wait.

hunterjenn
02-21-2007, 06:46 PM
(wish I could do the same w/ cranky husband when shopping)

:roflhard: :roflhard: