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View Full Version : OT: To cry it out or not??? my LENGTHY update now posted!


Cristy
02-25-2007, 11:39 PM
dh and I are sitting here discussing whether or not it's okay to let a baby "cry it out". As many of you know--my new little one is not a sleeper and as is standard when you are a new (or second timers in our case) parent, everyone has their opinion on how to make a baby sleep. I welcome the advice--if nothing else, I think it's interesting to hear what others think...

The two most prevailing opinions we hear are that of the pro-attachment parenting person who feels you should wear your baby and have a "family bed". The other is the opinion that babies don't know how to fall asleep so you must put them down and let them cry it out in order for them to learn that "it'll all be okay"...

What do you think?

Ingrid
02-25-2007, 11:42 PM
That's a tough one. I was never able to just let them cry it out, especially at that age. I spent a lot of time singing and patting, knowing that eventually they'd learn to sleep. But, since you're planning on going back to work, you do need to get him on a regular sleep cycle so you're not up half the night.

I don't have an answer, obviously, but I do understand your dilemma. :hug:

Knitting_Guy
02-25-2007, 11:45 PM
Give the kid a shot of Jack Daniels and it'll sleep like a ...

Ingrid
02-25-2007, 11:50 PM
Give the kid a shot of Jack Daniels and it'll sleep like a ...

Irma Bombeck used to say that a shot of Scotch helped a lot.

After she had one, she didn't care if the baby slept or not. :teehee:

Belphoebe
02-25-2007, 11:54 PM
My dd was a premie and as such followed what I've heard most premies do...they don't fall asleep on their own until they are at least a year old. My pediatrician said since she was a premie, many premies are wired that way. Trying to let her cry herself to sleep only made her go into a crying fit that would escalate until she was SO worked up that it would take divine intervention to break the cycle. Needless to say, I did a LOT of bouncing, dancing, and coddling until she fell dead asleep and placed her in her crib once she was. After she was about a year old, she figured out how to fall asleep on her own. Believe me, I could have used the sleep during that first year...I'm a Jr. High Teacher...but she finally figured it out and I was able to stop getting up a few times a night. I know what you are going through and wish you all the best. :hug:

raederle
02-26-2007, 12:00 AM
Okay, my lil guy is 16 mos old, and I've only got the one, but here's my parenting take:

Every family is different (and not in a Anna Karenina way!) and every child is different.

You know your child best, and what works at one stage might be totally wrong at another.

We said we weren't going to sleep with the baby, we did, for a while.

We said we weren't going to let him use a pacifier, and after waiting six weeks, I gave in, but we took it away with no real fuss (on HIS part... it was MY crutch by then) before his first birthday.

We said we wouldn't let him cry, but we find that after our bedtime routine, unless he's already passed out from crankiness, he will cry for about 5-10 minutes and then go to sleep and stay asleep until morning. Longer crying that gets more intense means he's not ready for bed, and we need to go get him and calm him down before trying again once he gets sleepy.

We only started doing this after he started sleeping through the night consistently (no nighttime feedings at all). At one month, I wouldn't recommend this, instead I'd advise the hand on the back method. Stand at the crib and put your hand on the baby's back or body and go "shusssssssshhhhhhhhh" long and medium loud. Check out the baby whisperer's site for more details: www.thebabywhisperer.com. While I don't agree with everything she says, I do agree with her that moderation is the key.

My mom says I am black and white, but as I get older I see the value of balance and shades of gray.

My opinion: one month is too young to "let them cry it out."

Every baby is different, and you know yours best. Go with your gut.


emily

aylaanne
02-26-2007, 12:35 AM
I don't think that a one month old should cry it out. CiO is for children who are deliberately trying to manipulate into a later bedtime. Before about a year, the baby doesn't know how to do that, he's all id. If you need a break to stay sane, that's perfectly fine, but I would go back and pick her back up, or move the crib within arms reach of the bed, or co-sleep. This baby might need that.

Again, I'm über crunchy when it comes to early childhood, so maybe not the best choice.

Cristy
02-26-2007, 12:42 AM
Dh and I already have our own opinion--I'm just curious what other's think.

Our conversation started b/c my dad was over earlier and he said that the problem was that the baby didn't know how to fall asleep b/c we hold him all the time. I found that really funny b/c when I had dd--he told me that letting babies "cry it out" was child abuse! LOL! My dad's funny like that...

I didn't let dd cry it out until she was 18 months old--I did it for three nights in a row and on the 4th night she slept through the night for the very first time!!!

I also said I wouldn't let dd sleep w/ me but I did--I said this one wouldn't sleep w/ me and he does from 6 a.m. until we get up (basically, once dh leaves, Aaron joins me).

Keep the opinions coming--OH!!! and about the baby whisperer...my pediatrician just told me about all of that last week. Honestly--we've tried the shshing and so far it does seem to help some. We've started to swaddle which I didn't do w/ dd and it also seems to help a little. I'll have to check out the website--I didn't know there was one!

newamy
02-26-2007, 12:44 AM
I'm in the camp of don't let them cry it out. The baby is in the trust learning phase. They cannot learn it if you don't meet it's needs. And the baby is used to being warms and held close. The crib is big and cold. You cannot spoil a baby with love and attention.
My son could never sleep with out being near us. And he didn't sleep through the night till he was 5. Of course that was probably because he wet the bed till he was 5 and in woke him up.
My daughter though would just go to sleep when we laid her down. But she was fed and rocked first. And if she cried in the night we took care of her right away. She slept through the night before she was a year old.
But to this day they are both very different. Son is a bit needy and high strung. Daughter is mellow and self sufficient. But neither one got to be the way they are by crying it out.

Julie
02-26-2007, 12:52 AM
"The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley is fabulous, IMHO, I recommend it to people all the time. It has sleep solutions for all styles of parenting. I wished I had read it before DD2 came along because there are a lot of things you can start doing right away to establish sleep cues -- but we started a few months in and it was really helpful.

I'm not staunchly anti-CIO (I really think it depends on the child) but our two were sharing a room so we really needed to find a way to get the baby to sleep without crying, or we all would have been up all night! ;)

knitqueen
02-26-2007, 12:59 AM
I've got two sons. With baby #1, I thought that CIO was what everyone did! Seriously, I had no idea otherwise. He really was a very good baby though so it wasn't really a huge issue, but there were times that we'd let him cry a bit and he'd fall asleep faster than if we didn't. Around 4 months old we got into a rut of him needing his pacifier to be plugged back in many times during the night. He'd go instantly back to sleep with it so we kept doing it, but it was exhausting for all of us so that's when we decided to let him cry. He cried for about 20 minutes, then was quiet for about 10 minutes, then cried about 5 minutes more and that was it. He slept till morning. The second night we heard him wimpering a little bit but that was it and he is now 5 years old and unless sick, he NEVER wakes up during the night.

Baby #2 :zombie: :teehee: . Oh my gosh, what a different child. Very needy, cried a lot, made us tear out our hair. Oh, I forgot to mention that when #1 was probably 8 months old or so, I discovered the babywhisperer and I've been a forum member over there at www.babywhisperer.com for about 4.5 years already! Like the previous posters have said, BW promotes patting, shhhhhing, and NEVER EVER letting your baby cry. So with baby #2 I was bound and determined not to do CIO. I did everything else - we slept with him, we tried to feed him to sleep, tried to get him hooked on a pacifier :oops: , and I don't know how many hours I spent bent over his crib patting him while he screamed his little head off anyways. I just couldn't take it, it was driving me to insanity it felt like, AND I had a 20 month "baby" to take care of as well. So in the end, we did go the CIO route. I didn't want to but it felt like the only way. It was within just a few days that his nighttimes AND his naps drastically improved. It was like he thrived with less intervention on our part.

I was really torn about it, and still now I'm not sure exactly if I think it was the right thing to do. The other way wasn't working, and this worked, so maybe in that way it was the right thing to do for our sanity at the time, but it still doesn't quite feel right. I dunno. I'm just glad I'm not having any more babies!!

redwitch
02-26-2007, 01:04 AM
About sleeping through the night, which someone mentioned, that's a Western idea to get the baby into the habit of a long night's sleep and awake during the day as much and as soon as possible. It's convenient for the parents, but there's no reason the baby will be better off once it begins to sleep for longer through the night rather than on and off.

It's always different for us at the computer while you have got a REAL LIVE SCREAMING BABY WHO WON'T SHUT UP but I think I'd ignore the bub only if it is crying a 'not really hungry or sore but want cuddles' kind of cry, otherwise they'd learn it gets them attention. You can probably tell the difference between 'I'm hungry!' crying and 'Mummy pick me up' crying, the second one doesn't get much from me.
I think we'll be interested in hearing what approach you are choosing and how you think it worked?

Sarah

Jan in CA
02-26-2007, 01:51 AM
IMO a one month old child is too young to cry it out. It's just too young to learn the world doesn't revolve around them. It takes time for their bodies to adjust and at 1 month they are still a tiny infant still learning who mom and dad are what the world is like.

It's going to be tough, but I'd wait till he's 8 mos old or later if you really feel the need to help him along. :heart:

syndactylus
02-26-2007, 02:16 AM
I'm not and will never be a mom, but orangutans sleep in their mothers' nests until they're past 2 and usually more like 4 or 5 I think.

I feel bad for humans in comparison. except the ones that get rolled on top of and smothered.

butterflymama
02-26-2007, 07:47 AM
LOL, well here we are up at 5am, been awake since 3ish...we don't cio here. And we family bed. With both kids. Most nights its fine. Some nights, like last night, its terrible but I would much rather lose some sleep (and by 'some' I mean a ton...I have a 3 year old and a 23 month old the youngest has never slept through the night) then make them cry for their mama at night. I look at it like this, I don't turn in my mama card at a magical hour at night and I would not let them cry for me during the day so it makes no sense to allow it at night. Just because they don't know that the rest of the world likes to sleep doesn't mean they should have to suffer.

I lost my mom when I was 15 and always wondered if that played a role in my parenting style (AP) and I read once that it was very common for motherless mothers to be extrmemely opposed to CIO for a simple reason...we know what its like to cry for your mama who never comes and would never wish that on our own children.....no matter how tired we are.

Ronda
02-26-2007, 07:52 AM
Both of my babies had colic, but my last one (DD) was worse than my first one (DS). I had a very hard time letting them cry it out. Even after the colic was over, my DD was not a good sleeper. She's 9 now, and to this very day she will sleep walk and talk in her sleep and wake up in the middle of the night. She slept with us for a while because I desperately needed sleep. I'm the type of person who cannot easily go back to sleep once awakened, so I did what I had to do to survive at the time whether it was right or wrong or popular or unpopular.

The thing is, my kids are 15 (almost 16) and 9 now. They are both very well adjusted. They sleep in their own beds. :) Everything worked out in the end.

I don't really have an answer for you except to encourage you to do what works for you and your family. :hug:

zkimom
02-26-2007, 08:21 AM
Hi Christy,

I have to admit that those baby days are a dim memory for me now as my kids are 8 and 12.

Looking back at it all now, every little decison seemed so important -- at what age do I wean, do we co-sleep, do we cry it out? But really, infancy is a stage that goes by in a blink (even though the sleepless nights may make it seem like forever!) And then the challenges in front of you change and you are dealing with issues like how much time do I allow my son in front of his game cube before his brain completely fries and just how many Beany Babies is one young girl allowed to own in a lifetime?

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer (although my answers always lean to the left!) It really has to be what you and your family are most comfortable with despite what everyone around you tells you.

I was one of those AP (attachment parenting) moms for both of my kids. I am an admitted baby wearing, co-sleeping, long term nursing mom. It worked for us -- but I still say that you have a 50/50 chance with your kids -- when they are 30 and sitting in front of their therapist and complaining "I would be completely sane if only my mom had _______ (fill in the blank here) -- a) weaned me earlier or b) let me nurse til I was 17.)"

We make the best decisions with the information we have at the moment. Trust your instincts even though there will be plenty of people around who will tell you that you are wrong!

Enjoy this time when they are small because it goes by faster than you think.

Best,
Susan

Chel
02-26-2007, 08:33 AM
First off, I don't believe in a "family bed". To give your children the best possible start you need to nurture your marriage. A family bed can interfere with that.

Crying it out is sometimes necessary. Babies know how to go to sleep. They just don't want to. Sometimes they are overstimulated and can't. Crying it out helps them to learn to self soothe, which is a valuable lesson.

As someone with an ECE background my advice would be this: Before going to bed-check everything. Full tummy? Dry bottom? Burped? Room the perfect temp? Baby actually sleepy? Good, then lie him down, say the SAME THING everytime, turn on some music or something soothing and leave him alone. Following the same pattern every time will become part of a routine that helps him understand its time to go to sleep. If he cries, let it go 5 minutes then go back in to make sure he is safe. Don't touch him. Just say the same thing you did earlier and leave again. Then give it 10 minutes. And repeat increasing by 5 minute intervals until he is asleep.

Basically you can't "spoil" a baby under the age of 6 months. This is a bonding time when they learn that you will be there to have their needs met. Sure, they have preferences and most perfer falling asleep in your arms.

Part of what makes peek-a-boo fun is that babies actually think that when you "disappear" that you actually cease to exist. Thats what makes it so shocking to them when you reappear. There fore, when you leave the room, all that exists in Aarons world is what he sees and what he is touching. Those thngs need to be comforting to him.

Its around 12 months when babies get the concept that the world is bigger than their immediate environment and that when you disappear, you are actually somewhere else existing without them. Thats when you get the clinginess. Its best to have extablished the ability to self soothe long before you get to that point or you will have a rough time getting out of the house to do anything.

zkimom
02-26-2007, 08:52 AM
First off, I don't believe in a "family bed". To give your children the best possible start you need to nurture your marriage. A family bed can interfere with that.

My dh and I always said "Having a family bed is why God created guest rooms!" :teehee:

Emeraldcutie
02-26-2007, 08:56 AM
My daughter had problems sleeping at night in the beginning, as it turned out from trial and error. She didn't like the openness of her crib. We actually, belted her in her little car seat and set that inside the crib and she slept through the night at 3 weeks, from 9pm to 9am without fail. It wasn't until about 9 months that she was ready to transition to her crib, even then we used one of those wedge like things to keep her on her side and and give her the feeling of being embraced.

cara
02-26-2007, 09:05 AM
I am big time pro attachment parenting. We shared a family bed until my daughter was about 6 months, and then we moved her to her own room which is attached to ours. She seemed ready and slept well. she turned one on Feb 11th and I am still up 2-3 times with her everynight. some nights only 1 time if I am lucky. She goes down for about 12 hours (7pm-7am) and wakes around 11ish and again sometime around 3 perhaps.

I am still nursing her when she wakes, though I am preparing to wean her as we would like to have another baby soon and I would like some time as a woman who is not pregnant or nursing.

My husband and I LIVED BY 'The Happiest Baby on the Block' www.thehappiestbaby.com which was the best book that I have read, and I have read many. I give this book to all of my friends who are having babies and so far we are all big fans. I have one aquaintence who let her child cry it out... for over an hour... 4 nights in a row... uggg. finally the baby does sleep through the night (she is nearly a year old mind you) but there are studies show that babies that were allowed to cry it out as a baby have trust and abandonment issues later in life.

I don't let my daughter cry, but we don't coddle her either. We take her camping in the spring, summer and fall, (we went on a 6 week tenting trip when she was 4.5 - 6 months old last summer and had a blast) we went snow shoeing with her for 3 hours on the weekend and it was pretty cold, and we take her rock climbing all year around assuming the weather is good and we have taken her ice climbing as well. We don't run to pick her up when she bumps her head or scares herself. Instead we set her on our lap and talke to her calmly about what happened and what she is feeling. (of course if she IS really hurt we go to her, but most of the time she (as most kids do) just startles herself)

Many of our friends find we are trying to make her 'tough', but one thing I will never ever do is haver her cry it out. It just breaks my heart to hear her crying when she needs or wants me or my husband. The way I see it, if I were crying, it would mean I need something... She can't say to me 'mommy, I'm too hot or cold' or 'mommy I'm thirsty, or 'mommy I had a bad dream'. If I said any of those things, or if an older child said any of those things, we would tend to them. A baby is no different, except we are responsible as parents to figure out what their needs are.

my 2 cents..

dustinac
02-26-2007, 09:18 AM
Everyone would tell me let them cry it out.. but I never could... I couldn't take them crying it would make me cry.. I always felt their crying was their way of letting me know they needed something.. now later on when they were just using it to stay up later it didn't work... my son was laid back though and we didn't have much trouble with him.. my little girl though if you didn't get to her quick it would soon be such a screamy cry that you couldn't even calm her down to see what she needed.. the whole hold breath thing she did well... I would have to swaddle her, hold her close and in her ear make the shhh noise this worked everytime... I was also told you hold them to much they will be spoiled.... but to me they were my babies and were only gonna be babies once so I was going to enjoy cuddling them :teehee: ...

Something else the mama bears worked for my son he loved his... my daughter HATED it :rofl: :roflhard:

Birdy
02-26-2007, 09:44 AM
To me it is one of those things you have to decide each and every time you are faced with that crying child.

My first child was colicky and never slept for more than 2 hours. Till he was over 1 year old. When he was 9 months old I was so worn out!

Yet my family doctor kept telling me I had to get up and go to him and meet his needs. Never did he mention my needs!

Anyhow... We had to live at my parents for a bit, and she finally told me that she would check him. If he was fed, clean, and simply bored, I needed sleep more than he needed me.

Well, it took about 3 weeks, but he eventually learned to entertain himself at night. That was good because then during the day I was able to truly give him what he needed!

However, my next child wasn't colicky. She rarely cried, but when she did I was at her side as quickly as my Dennis the Menace could be left alone in a safe location.

Basically... I have no opinion! :lol: I do think we can err on the side of being too cautious and that if a child's needs are met then a cry isn't wrong.

In fact they say crying is important in the neurological growth of the child. That it is one step in them learning to deal with things as grown-ups.

cookworm
02-26-2007, 10:15 AM
Every baby is really different. My firstborn slept through the night at 1 month old on his own, but my second child wanted to sleep with us all the time, and although she did sleep through the night at around one month, it was because she was in our bed! :teehee: (She'd probably still be there if we let her--she's 10 now!) Now the third one, well, we just figured that she wanted to be held alot when she went through her "fussy time" when she was between 6-13 weeks (she'd scream nonstop from about 7-11 p.m.), but it turns out that once we put her in her own room in her own place to sleep, she was fine and did great--she just wanted to be left alone by herself (she's still very much this way--very independent and "too busy" to cuddle most of the time!). Although she didn't sleep through the night until she was 11 months old because she'd get up to nurse which was difficult.

In my humble opinion, I think that babies at one month old really still need lots of cuddling and contact. I don't think they're "manipulative" at that age as they might begin to be at say maybe like 5-6 months old where they can cry to try to get out of going to bed. They're still really young and they are so tiny and so vulnerable and can't do anything for themselves, so they really need mom and dad still (especially since they can't really entertain themselves at that age). It might not be bad to wait a few minutes until he's begun crying to go and get him, but perhaps letting him fully cry it out at this age is a little too much for him. Even though my first two slept through the night at around one month, I think that it's fairly unusual for babies to sleep through the night so young. And if he's still drinking mama's milk, he may still be getting up more frequently since it's more digestible than formula and he's hungrier sooner between feedings. My son was INSATIABLE at one month old--I couldn't keep up with him nursing, so I had to switch to formula, and even that wasn't enough...we wound up putting him on cereal, too! I hope he begins sleeping through the night soon, Cristy--it's a very hard period of time to go through taking care of a baby when you're not getting much sleep to recuperate and recharge. :hug:

Yarnlady
02-26-2007, 10:24 AM
Babies don't cry if they are happy. So if a baby is crying, s/he is unhappy.

If a wife was crying and the husband ordered her to leave the room and cry by herself, he would be considered a lout of the highest order.

Babies can't be spoiled by be paid attention to. If you take care of your food it doesn't spoil, so if one takes care of one's baby, it'll not be spoiled.

I personally think that no one should ever be left to cry on their own. It's lonely..... :verysad:

msoebel
02-26-2007, 10:47 AM
Not. Remember...they grow out of it. Eventually.

Personally, our dd could cry and cry and cry and...well, you get the picture. She had no ability to ever just cry herself to sleep.

And honestly, I wasn't going to sleep while she was crying either.

So, she slept in a bassinet in our bedroom until she was 6 months old, then she slept in a crib in our bedroom for a month, then she slept in her own room.

At age 2, she went through a phase when she was up 7 times a night. I took away naps for a week. That cured it.

Just go by your instincts. Each child is different, each parent is different. Do what works for your child and your family.


Misty

auburnchick
02-26-2007, 10:59 AM
Cristy,

Let us know what you guys decide. I'm really curious now after reading everyone's responses.

ZELDAdog
02-26-2007, 11:14 AM
It's sooo funny you posted this, since I'm getting ready to have #3 and will just have to play the sleeping thing out to see what works!

That being said, with my first, he was/is a sleeper! We let him CIO for about 3 nights--it didn't take him longer than 10 minutes and he was out for the night! This was around 3 months of age! Went to bed on his own from then on out!

Boy, did I get a rude awakening with my 2nd! We quickly figured out that co-sleeping was the ONLY way to get this kid to sleep at all! If we wanted any sleep ourselves, he slept with us! He co-slept until about 3 months ago--now he shares a bed with his big brother. He's 26 months old now. Oh, and this kid doesn't nap either--GRRR! I've found with him that if I keep a strict bedtime routine that helps him tremendously! At least now I can get him to bed around 8 pm--I still have to stay with him until he falls asleep though--one hurdle at a time, right?

So, who knows what will happen with baby #3! I'm really hoping he's more like my 4 year old was!

Good luck whatever you decide!

Oh, I read the No Cry Sleep Solution--very good info in there--I just never did put it into effect because I was lazy! Could help you though! I should go read it again!

candicane
02-26-2007, 12:32 PM
I suggest the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child". It does a wonderful job explaing how babies sleep at different ages. I personally would not do any sleep training or Cry it Out until at the very least 4 months when sleep patterns (naps and night time) are more regular.

candice

earthchick
02-26-2007, 12:56 PM
Wow. I am SO impressed with this board (I mean, I've always been impressed, but this thread has kicked my feelings up a notch). This subject has come up on other boards I frequent and it always ALWAYS degenerates into conflict. This is such a hot-button topic, and as with any hot-button parenting topic, it is so easy for people of differing viewpoints to imply that those with opposing opinions are bad parents. I :heart: KH - everyone here is always so civil and kind. :teehee:

We are more AP and did not CIO. But I think even those in the medical community who promote CIO recommend waiting until at least 4 months old (which, imho, is still too young). But I think definitely a one month old is too young to CIO.

Others above have recommended some great books: The Happiest Baby on the Block, The No-Cry Sleep Solution, and Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child. I have read all of these and found each of them helpful. One thing I liked about Healthy Sleep Habits was that it was adaptable depending on your personal preference - if you believe in CIO, it gives you tools for that (encouraging you to wait until at least 4 months), but if you are more AP (which is what we are), it gives you tool for helping your baby with sleep without CIO.

Good luck to you - I know how hard those early sleep-deprived days are. In retrospect, though, they were so brief - and now I really miss those days when my boys wanted and needed to be held so much.

suzeeq
02-26-2007, 01:08 PM
My daughter had problems sleeping at night in the beginning, as it turned out from trial and error. She didn't like the openness of her crib. We actually, belted her in her little car seat and set that inside the crib and she slept through the night at 3 weeks, from 9pm to 9am without fail. It wasn't until about 9 months that she was ready to transition to her crib, even then we used one of those wedge like things to keep her on her side and and give her the feeling of being embraced.

This is a good point you raise. Very young babies are more comfortable being `confined' by being wrapped up in blankets and sleep sacks. That's why bassinets were very popular for many years; they're much smaller than a crib and not as open. Maybe Cristy could fold up some adult size blankets to take up some of the space in the crib and create a `nest' for the baby so she'll feel more secure.

sue

hunterjenn
02-26-2007, 01:33 PM
Hmmmm...I guess I have my own opinions about this, but I have been hesitant to share for fear of sounding selfish! Everyone's been very respectful though, as usual, so I guess I'll throw my two cents in.

Most of my parenting decisions, though not consciously, probably were made with my own need for independence in mind. I love my children like mad, but I just don't *want* to have them *on* me anymore. I loved to hold them, especially when feeding, because it's such a sweet moment. But I never wanted to do the snugli, or have them sleeping in my bed, or to have to be tied down for hours trying to get them to sleep. So the best thing for me was to let them cry.

My boys really were pretty good babies, and were on their own 3-hour schedule from the minute they were born, but if one of them was having a hard time sleeping, I just did what Chel said. I let him cry for a few minutes, then went in (popped in the pacifier), and said something soothing. If he started crying again when I left, I'd try again after a slightly more extended period of time. :shrug: Worked for me!

I certainly don't think you'll do a baby any harm by carrying/holding him. The only thing you may be harming is your own freedom! I watched my SIL carry her baby constantly--including the whole time she slept. The baby never did nap much, and couldn't sleep at all without someone's skin on her. Later on, SIL really was irritated that she couldn't ever just have some alone time, KWIM? That would make me crazy, but I'm sure that's not everyone's experience!

I agree with Birdy, too. Sometimes you just have to take each experience individually. Sometimes that baby really does just need to be held!

Jan in CA
02-26-2007, 01:47 PM
I just remembered something. My husband's niece's daughter always fell asleep when the hairdryer was on. They burned out several of them putting her to sleep! :teehee: I found this site with soothing white noise sounds for baby that you might consider trying.
About halfway down the page are the baby white noise CDs. You can listen to samples and some of the "adult" ones are nice, too.
http://www.purewhitenoise.com/
I was thinking that if you used one of these while holding the baby for awhile then after a month or so he might hear it and associate it with you even when you aren't there and feel comforted.

Thank you all for being so kind and understanding of each others opinions in here! :heart:

knitqueen
02-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Oh yeah, that was another thing that really helped for us! We used a small fan in his room - it was NOISY and it really didn't do anything as far as a fan function is supposed to do, but the noise really helped. I imagine it masked the household noises and it also became something that he associated with sleep.

auburnchick
02-26-2007, 02:10 PM
Oh yeah, that was another thing that really helped for us! We used a small fan in his room - it was NOISY and it really didn't do anything as far as a fan function is supposed to do, but the noise really helped. I imagine it masked the household noises and it also became something that he associated with sleep.

Did this too with ds when he decided, at about three years old, not to sleep through the night anymore. Worked WONDERS.

Cristy,

I do have a question, though. How much longer until you go back to work? Will you have him in a daycare? How will his caregiver put him down for naps?

I worked right after ds was born (got to quit when he was 1), and the daycare workers stood over the cribs and patted each baby down until they were nearly asleep.

CarmenIbanez
02-26-2007, 02:32 PM
Dh and I already have our own opinion--I'm just curious what other's think.

Our conversation started b/c my dad was over earlier and he said that the problem was that the baby didn't know how to fall asleep b/c we hold him all the time. I found that really funny b/c when I had dd--he told me that letting babies "cry it out" was child abuse! LOL! My dad's funny like that...

I didn't let dd cry it out until she was 18 months old--I did it for three nights in a row and on the 4th night she slept through the night for the very first time!!!

I also said I wouldn't let dd sleep w/ me but I did--I said this one wouldn't sleep w/ me and he does from 6 a.m. until we get up (basically, once dh leaves, Aaron joins me).


I agree with you. Cry it out is for older children/toddlers. Babies need lovin'!

Quiltlady
02-26-2007, 03:26 PM
My first baby had colic. I'll NEVER forget those days!! :wall: I could not let her cry it out tho. A few times I put her in her crib for a few minutes so I could regain my calm to pick her up again and rock her to comfort her. When she turned three months old it DID go away. :happydance:

I think if its an older child and you know they are just over tired you can tell by their cry if they will fall asleep in a few minutes. You really have to be the one to make the call on it. But I never let mine cry very long on their own. My three children are happy, well adjusted adults now. :cheering: :cheering: :cheering:

imported_Knitty_Kat
02-26-2007, 06:15 PM
That is a tough question. When my son was born, he would wake up to feed every twenty to thirty minutes. Suffice it to say, I didn't get much sleep the first couple of months. Once he got to where he would only wake up once or twice in the night, he would cry a lot when I put him down for the night. If I knew he had been burped well and his diaper was clean and the room temp was comfortable, I would let him lie in there and cry about fifteen minutes or so. I think sometimes he was just upset about me putting him down. If he cried longer than that, I would try and burp him one more time and then sit with him until he got really sleepy. Usually when he would cry longer than ten or fifteen minutes it was because he would spit up in his crib and it would upset him.

After he was three months old, much against my own initial opinions, when he would cry I would give him a little teething ring or a pacifier which he would promptly spit back out. I could never keep a binky in his mouth, so that didn't work. Fortunately, he started sleeping through the night once he was about five months old.

I think it really is up to the parents. I know when I was a baby it was all about just letting babies wail to gain their sense of independence and learn self-soothing, but more recently it's been discovered that it's beneficial for newborns to be close to their mother the first few months. It's never easy, especially when you have a baby that takes forever to get down for the night and then they wake up once an hour or more, but after time it gets easier.

koolbreeze
02-27-2007, 10:34 AM
My dd was a premie and as such followed what I've heard most premies do...they don't fall asleep on their own until they are at least a year old. My pediatrician said since she was a premie, many premies are wired that way. Trying to let her cry herself to sleep only made her go into a crying fit that would escalate until she was SO worked up that it would take divine intervention to break the cycle. Needless to say, I did a LOT of bouncing, dancing, and coddling until she fell dead asleep and placed her in her crib once she was. After she was about a year old, she figured out how to fall asleep on her own. Believe me, I could have used the sleep during that first year...I'm a Jr. High Teacher...but she finally figured it out and I was able to stop getting up a few times a night. I know what you are going through and wish you all the best. :hug:

WOW that explains a lot. now i know why my son won't go to sleep on his own. thank God 1 year is around the corner.

shes to young to just let cry. swaddler her up like they do in the hospital. she still likes to be warm and cozy. and you can also hold her in the football hold and let her head kind of dangle. and walk around with her. that always worked for me! good luck!

Cristy
02-27-2007, 01:21 PM
My goodness! Thank you all for your advice/opinions/stories, etc.! I didn't get to check the forum at all yesterday so I had a bit to read this morning! LOL!

Okay--here's some more info. As I said earlier, this is my second baby. I was 24 years old when dd was born and much to my horror, I found myself divorced before she was a year old. Her father took to drinking and drugs (or I finally caught on that he'd always been doing it...I'm still not sure which) and I tried and tried to help him to no avail. After two DUIs during my pregnancy and finding out he had driven her home from my parents house while drinking (and side-swiped a mailbox), I couldn't take it anymore and I left. There were a million other drunken events during that time--but that's another thread for another time. I moved in my mom and dad (horrible!) when we separated--dd was about 9 months old. At that same time I got the job I have now (Thank God) and I was admitted to grad school (Thank God again). My parents were a God-send and kept dd for me to go to school at night. I was still breastfeeding so I was pumping during the day at work and dropping off the bottles of milk on the days that I had to go to class. During the day, my dad kept dd so I didn't have childcare costs. He worked from 6 pm to 2 am at the time and so he'd come home, sleep until I left for work and then he'd keep her and nap w/ her. When mom got home at 5 pm, she'd take over for him to get ready for work if it was a night that I had class. Now, my dad is the best caregiver in the world when it comes to babies--they love him and he has the most amazing magic touch--way moreso than any (forgive me guys) man I've ever known. That being said--he would pick her up every time she whimpered. My dad is also hearing impaired so he always had a fear of not knowing when she was upset (b/c he couldn't hear her cry) so he'd hold her constantly and nap w/ her laying on his chest. She got so used to the closeness that she got to where she couldn't sleep w/o that person to person contact. So I co-slept w/ her until she was 18 mos. old when I made the decision to let her cry it out--and like I said earlier--in 3 days she was sleeping through the night but it also was the beginning of the end of nursing for me as my milk supply suffered when I wasn't nursing at night and I was only pumping during the day. DD is now 4 and a half and sleeps beautifully, she's extremely affectionate and loving and could care less if we are away. She loves us but she has never really cried when we left (expcept for that typical 1 yr. old--OMG, Mommy's gone!! stage). People marvel at how well she leaves us and staying away over night is never an issue. A few months before her second birthday I began to date a wonderful man who is now my husband. Her dad is still semi in the picture but dh has really played the role of Daddy to her. Her dad has no custody and only supervised visitation b/c of his drinking problems. My parents are still a huge part of dd's life--they have grandparent's night every friday--they pick her up from school, she spends the night and then they bring her home after they take her out to breakfast. We also see them at church as our family all attends the same church.

Enter child #2. Aaron was born EXACTLY 14 months after dh and I married. We are thrilled--he's the first grandchild for dh's parents and the 4th for my parents who live close by (my sis has 2 kids too). DS is an awesome sleeper and nurser but doesn't seem to sleep between the hours of midnight and 2 or 3 a.m. I'm not a big pusher of the all night sleeper--my concern w/ the situation is that dh works and I am returning to work on March 12th. I get up for work at 5 and as someone else said of themselves, I don't fall back asleep well after I'm awake (although in my current sleepy state it is getting easier! LOL) I've tried waking dh during the day as he naps to nurse more frequently--the thought was that perhaps I could nudge the sleep cycle a little and get the "awake" time to later (like beginning when I would get up for work) or earlier (starting around 8 or 9 in the evening). So far, I've no success! Right now I tend to go to bed around 9 or 10 (whenever he goes to sleep) and then dh wakes me around mid-night when he wakes and wants to nurse. From mid-night to 2 a.m. either I stay up or dh stays up, whoever seems to be less sleepy. When he finally goes to sleep and stays asleep, he is sleeping in a pack n play in our room at the foot of the bed. He sleep there until he wakes again to nurse. Around 6 am (the second time he wakes), I tend to put him in bed w/ me b/c dh is getting up soon to get dd off to school and head to work himself. We sleep and nurse until around 9 or 10 am--depending on how sleepy we are. So I am getting sleep--but only about 6 hours over the course of a 12 hour span once you count out the number of times I wake up and how long it takes him to nurse. If he's in bed w/ me I can drift off while he's nursing but the times that I try to sit up and nurse--I'm awake for all of his 20-30 minute feeding. I feel okay during the day but I'm afraid of what it's going to be like when I don't have my uninterrupted mornings to sleep in and nurse beginning in just under 2 weeks.

I am a behaviorist at heart--it comes from my job and my educational background. I tend to believe everything is a behavior that can be shaped BUT behavior can't be shaped unless you want to put in the time and effort and unless you have the resources to do it. It also takes time and has consequences. That being said, when I read about AP--I find it to be a beautiful concept that I tend to embrace in many ways. If I could comfortable do the family bed, I would, but physically, dh and I are uncomfortable trying to sleep w/ Aaron in the bed b/c we don't want ot be right on top of him which leaves us hanging off the side of the bed, afraid to roll over or move! I'm okay w/ baby-led weaning, I just didn't know anything about it so I didn't attempt to keep breasfeeding w/ dd until she did so. I love babywearing--I've actually been sewing my own slings lately--I've started to use them to accessorize in the way I used to use shoes! LOL! My mil thinks I'm crazy b/c I coordinate my sling to my outfit!

We have no intentions of letting Aaron CIO right now--although there have been times (2 times) during that 12-2 or 3 window that he's fussy, doesn't want to nurse, is dry, not sick, warm and cozy, etc. that he has cried on his own while we were holding him and we've made the decision to put him in his swing nearby or in his cradle and sit next to him as he cries instead of holding him. It's to give us a momentary break (both of us need to see a massage therapist so badly!!) and then we pick him up again and continue w/ our shushing and bouncing and rocking as we walk trails into the carpet!

So there you have it--I think I've answered everyone's questions and given you a little more insight into my story...Regardless of how it turns out, I will go back to work, I will continue nursing and I'll learn to manage on only a few hours of interrupted sleep if it's what seems to be best for my baby.

Thanks guys for your opinions, and I too am amazed at how everyone on this forum can discuss controversial topics w/o screaming and shouting at one another!

Jan in CA
02-27-2007, 01:22 PM
I just remembered something else.. my youngest seemed to sleep better when the bedding was warm. I think going from warm arms to cold bedding woke her up so we used a heating pad to keep the bed warm and when we were ready to put her in bed we'd move it and lay her down. It seemed to help a little.

Cristy
02-27-2007, 01:31 PM
I agree about the whole babies like to be warm and nestled idea--I swear that's why you can get a baby to sleep all night w/ you before you can away from you! I haven't ever tried the heating pad idea--I did see somewhere that throwing a bottom blanket in the dryer just before putting baby on it is a good way...

Actually--we've been wondering lately if ds is too warm...we've been swaddling him per "The Happiest Baby on the Block" and a couple of times when he's seemed REALLY figgity, we've removed the blanket and he calms down. Then, yesterday I decided to close the windows and turn on the air--we've been having 60 and 70 degree weather here!! I forgot to shut off the air last night and this morning dh told me when he got up for work the house was 63 degrees (which is much cooler than we've been keeping it w/ the new baby around). I forgot to mention in my previous post that last night ds went to bed at 2:20 and didn't wake up until 6:05--that's the longest stretch of sleep yet! I sure slept better w/ it cooler--I wonder if ds did too???

Just a thought! (I did notice he was a little stuffy this morning tho')

callmesusan
02-27-2007, 02:11 PM
I say when the pediatrician says baby should be able(is big enough to wait until morning for breakfast), it's time to let him/her cry it out.

I finally broke (from exhaustion) with my two kids at 5 months of age and let them scream it out, it wasn't easy, but I think it took about two nights. Looking back, I think we were all just in a bad habit.

Since it is especially hard for parents to hear their babe's discontent, here is what my sister did: When they were ready to sleep through the night (weighing enough), she sent them to spend the weekend with Nana. Having raised 5 children and having even more wisdom now, Nana happily let the child cry. My sister picked the baby up Sunday morning and BAM! sleeping through the night! Maybe you know a benevolent soul who will give up a couple nights sleep to help you.

auburnchick
02-27-2007, 02:12 PM
Cristy,

:hug:

Wow! I think you are wonderful just to be so concerned. You've done your homework, but you know your son best. Trust your instincts. It will all be okay in the end, regardless of what you do.

Maybe you can just put a fan in his room to keep things a bit cooler (who knows if the cooler temp was a coincidence) and provide a bit of soothing noise.

Good luck!!!!

P.S. I remember reading somewhere that sometimes babies just need to cry (if you've checked all of the important stuff). They may not necessarily be unhappy.

Jan in CA
02-27-2007, 02:30 PM
Thanks for that long post, Cristy. It makes me feel better that you aren't going to let a one month old cio. I do think at some point when he's older you may have to as it seems a lot of babies do go through this.

My kids gradually slept longer and longer and I'm sure Aaron will as was shown last night. I bet he does that more and more now. It's a two steps forward one step back with kids. ;)

:hug: :hug: :hug:

zkimom
02-27-2007, 03:10 PM
Christy,

Your kids are lucky to have a Mom like you!

:muah:

Susan

Julie
02-27-2007, 03:43 PM
Christy -- I'm not sure if you've thought of this, but here goes...I used to nurse with a flannel receiving blanket under DD, so when she was asleep and I put her down in the pack & play (and later her crib), she was on top of a blanket that was not only warm, it smelled like me. It helped quite a bit. :D

Cristy
02-27-2007, 03:53 PM
it's a good idea--I haven't tried it w/ ds but I did put a soiled t-shirt (I know that seems gross but it works) on dd's bed when she was especially resistant to napping..

Thanks for the tip!

Birdy
02-27-2007, 04:52 PM
I did the shirt thing too.

Another thing that worked with my son was putting a sofa cushion under the head of his crib mattress. We then had to get one of those forms to kind of hold him in place, but the one end of the mattress was about 4 inches higher than the other end of the mattress.

Eventually we learned to screw the bottom of the crib together wrong and get the same effect but we felt it was more stable.

I can not begin to imagine why this worked, but we discovered it during exam time and it made the biggest difference.

aylaanne
02-27-2007, 04:57 PM
Cristy, thank you so much for that long post, I feel like I have a lot more insight into your situation.

The biggest thing about cio is abandonment. Before about 6mos of age, and maybe longer than that, babies are all about building trust. Their only way of communicating to you that they need something, be it food, a diaper change, sleep, or a cuddle, is to cry. If they cry and you don't meet their needs, eventually they'll stop crying to let you know that they need something. At 18 mos like your dd was, having her cio is fine. She has other ways of telling you what she needs at that age.

It sounds like you've done the research that you need to do and that you're taking the steps that you need to take. The only thing I could suggest is to get a bassinet and put it next to the bed for a few months until you figure out what his needs truly are. If he can be within arm's reach, but not in the bed with you, you can touch him and still be asleep. Personally, when it's time to purchase such things, I want a cosleeper bassinet (http://armsreach.com/universal_cosleeper.php) while I'm breastfeeding during the night.

Pixywhispers
02-27-2007, 06:04 PM
Cristy Bless your heart.

I wanted to add about swaddeling. With my first we had the house very cold and swaddled with a hat on and then a blanket on top of her being swaddled. With our current "baby" (shes 15 months old) she is so hot natured we swaddle her with a piece of calico, as flannel is way too hot for her.

My son cried constantly unless I was holding him. He had a milk allergy. So I stopped drinking and eating milk. And he got better. It is a very common allergy. But it made me laugh when you said you are begining to be able to sleep after youve been awake. I was the same, but now 9 years later if I am tired I can sleep. :) His hard babyhood taught me a lot.

I agree with you on behaviors. Anything I do with my kids I think "I'm creating a habit." But I wouldnt be surprised if this is one of those quirks where all the sudden Aaron changes. He is still so new.

This last year I had a certain child who has gone through some interesting medical situations and has been in a lot of pain and inturn created a lot of friction in our family. Me being able to honestly change what I could and releave myself from guilt and stress about what I could not change was healing. But often we feel as if we must not be good enough, smart enough, etc. But let me releave you of any of that. Let go of any extra so you can deal with what is really going on.

I feel for you.

Cristy
02-27-2007, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the link to the co-sleeper--we've checked them out before but maybe we'll think about it again! :)

cara
02-27-2007, 09:23 PM
I have the co-sleeper and LOVE IT. My DD slept in it right beside me until she was 4.5 months old and then we left for a 6 week camping trip where she slept between us in the tent and when we got home and she was 6 months old we transitioned her to her crib in her room. I now use the Co-sleeper as just the play pen part in my home office to corral her when I need to go pee, or put a load of laundry in etc. :)

Like I said before, I religiously followed the Happiest Baby on the Block, and swaddled DD until she was 4.5 months old. The only reason I stopped was because in the tent with 90 degree heat it was just too hot!!!

not getting more than 3 or 4 consecutive hours of sleep really sucks. I know because that is all I get now and dd is 12.5 months. I'm not too worried. These stages don't last long and I figure I can suck it up a bit and be tired until she is ready to wean and sleep through the night. Makes work tough sometimes, but I exercise lots and eat very healthy so that helps to keep my body feeling great even when tired. :)

Best of luck to you and the little one!

ecb
02-28-2007, 08:57 PM
I gained a good piece of advice from a lacation consultant "Breast feeding is best, IF it works for all the parties involved
if it does nt work for mom, its not gonna work for baby
if it does not work for baby its a LOT harder for Mom
if dad gets all pissy about it, its WAY harder for everyone

this is from experience, I have nursed 7 kids, but only birthed 3
when it does work, its a great thing

Both of my babies had colic, but my last one (DD) was worse than my first one (DS). I had a very hard time letting them cry it out. Even after the colic was over, my DD was not a good sleeper. She's 9 now, and to this very day she will sleep walk and talk in her sleep and wake up in the middle of the night. She slept with us for a while because I desperately needed sleep.
The thing is, my kids are 15 (almost 16) and 9 now. They are both very well adjusted. They sleep in their own beds. :) Everything worked out in the end.

I don't really have an answer for you except to encourage you to do what works for you and your family. :hug:

Wish my kids slept in their own rooms
after their father died, all my kids moved back into my room, and the 9yo sleeps at the foot of my bed, and the 12yo sleeps on my floor unless her sister is home

Instead we set her on our lap and talke to her calmly about what happened and what she is feeling. (of course if she IS really hurt we go to her, but most of the time she (as most kids do) just startles herself) ..

My way of dealing with this kind of situation is to ask the kid(s) "is anything broken?" When they say No, I tell them to go check (the table, chair, floor, etc)\worked like a charm, if they were still crying when they came back, it actually hurt

Honestly, I thinks co-sleeping is best, and if they need, they know they are not forbidden to get compfort
it also makes setting limits easier. They know that they are not forbidden, but when its not ok, they need to defer

JMHO

You're doing a GREAT job