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View Full Version : OT - Getting Tough with a Teenager Updated 6/18


auburnchick
04-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Ok y'all. I've had it with my 15yo dd. She has been a challenge since she was about 10, but the last couple of years has gone past the point of what is okay as far as her attitude and disrespect. She's basically a good kid...good grades, good friends. But the disrespect... :grrr:

So, I decided to initiate a BIG change (after discussing with my dh). I suspended her cell phone service today (wait until she turns on her phone after school). She's also going to have to cancel a trip she was going on with a couple of friends after school gets out. No iPod, laptop, or boom box. I'm considering removing her bed from her bedroom as well. No soccer tournament -- her team is in the state playoffs, and even though she can't play (knee surgery in February), she goes to support them -- plus she just got voted as team captain. Plus, no soccer camp later this summer (very important...FSU soccer camp). Plus no friends over or to their houses at a minimum of this summer but indefinitely until her attitude permanently changes.

This could really affect her future soccer career, but I just feel like if you can't even have a normal conversation with your child, without being yelled out or put down (don't start me there), then what kind of parent am I? How am I really preparing her for her life as an adult??

What do you think? I know this seems drastic but she constantly puts me down...about everything, from the clothes I wear to how I talk on the phone. I cannot get through a grocery trip without her berating me the whole time. And she treats my dh even worse. And I see flashes of disrespect when she interacts with her g'parents.

Anyhow, I'm just curious what YOU have done while raising the beings we call teenagers.

cds11
04-20-2007, 02:39 PM
Wow.. I'm not a parent or anything.. infact, I was a teenager not that long ago... I'm going to wish you the best of luck with this, and do what you've got to do... But don't expect immediate results, there's probably gonna be a lot more resentment from her once she can't use her cell phone, can't go out, can't do anything really.... But hopefully if it's important enough to her, her attitude will change... It could be hard to correct if this has been going on a long time (it sounds like 5 or so years?). Maybe try talking to her about it, how it hurts your feelings and makes you feel bad when she puts you down all the time, or you could also try sending her to counselling to try and figure out why she's acting this way...

SandraEllen
04-20-2007, 02:42 PM
:hug: I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time with your kid. I was terrible to my parents when i was growing up. :verysad:

Sorry I don't have any advice for you... :hug:

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 02:47 PM
Wow.. I'm not a parent or anything.. infact, I was a teenager not that long ago... I'm going to wish you the best of luck with this, and do what you've got to do... But don't expect immediate results, there's probably gonna be a lot more resentment from her once she can't use her cell phone, can't go out, can't do anything really.... But hopefully if it's important enough to her, her attitude will change... It could be hard to correct if this has been going on a long time (it sounds like 5 or so years?). Maybe try talking to her about it, how it hurts your feelings and makes you feel bad when she puts you down all the time, or you could also try sending her to counselling to try and figure out why she's acting this way...

We've done everything but the counseling. She doesn't really seem to care if what she says hurts my feelings. Crying, yelling, and talking rationally don't help. The thing is that she knows our expectations. She just doesn't care. And soccer has always been the "untouchable" part of her life. She's a very good player, but if she can't function respectfully now, then what will that mean later?

I think until SHE decides to be different, things won't change.

And yes, I know it's going to be hard. But she doesn't know that I'm more stubborn than she is. I can outlast her. Besides, I have y'all and knitting to vent with. :muah: :hug:

quiltbugj
04-20-2007, 02:47 PM
Dear Nathalie: I can really understand how frustrated, hurt, angry and rejected you feel as a result of your daughter's behavior and attitude towards you.

Is it possible that in your hurt you're feeling as though you don't have any choices other than to take everything away from her? It is so tempting to do!

I would suggest sitting down with her (perhaps again and laying out your expectations and the consequences. You might even want to write/type them out so everyone is clear and there is no chance of misunderstanding. Be specific about the consequences so everyone is really clear.

Then the hard part: You have to follow through with what you've decided the consequences will be. Now, of course she's going to test you and she is going to be livid when you actually enforce the consequences, BUT --- eventually she will start to get it.

The hardest part of parenting is consistancy. It's also really important that the consequence fits the offense as much as possible. For instance: If she treats you with disrespect, the consequence might be that you don't drive her to practice. In the "real world" when you treat other's with disrespect they don't usually try and make your life easier!

I hope this is somewhat helpful. I have two daughters, 24 and 21. The teenage years can be really trying.

I'd suggest two books: How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk And Giving the Love that Heals by Harville Hendrix. Both are very clear and simple in regards to their approach.

I'll keep you in my prayers for strength and courage!

RiverDaughter
04-20-2007, 02:53 PM
Ouch, that sucks. But I do have some advice:

You're right to take away all of her electronics and ground her for the summer. Especially not letting friends into the house.

Setup a curfew.

No movies and no tv. (that will piss her off, especially with the new Jonny Depp and Orlando Bloom movie coming out this year)

Let her keep her bed. Taking that out of her room would just be silly.

If she shapes up and behaves all summer, let her take the soccer camp trip.

Maybe a family outing into the wilderness?

If she doesn't shape up by the school year, all of the rules should stay. No dances, no sports, no electronics, no car, and a 4pm curfew.


I hope that helps. My father and I had similar anger issues toward each other, but for different reasons (he hadn't wanted children, and made it known, and then I was sent to live with him when I was 10 because of my mother's death), but this sounds more like she's being a brat, something my step sister does quite a lot.

GinnyG
04-20-2007, 02:53 PM
Boy have I BEEN IN YOUR SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have my total and complete sympathy.

My daughter was an absoulte nightmare from the time she was 13 til about 18, I honestly didn't think I would survive it. But I did, she did, we did..... she is 22 now and FINALLY our relationship has become what I had always hoped it would be.

The best advice I can give you is be strong, be firm and try to keep loving her through it. Those that are the most difficult to love are often in need of our love the most.

I would not want to go back to those days for all the money in the world, it was the most hurtful painful time of my life. But she will grow out of it and you will SOMEDAY have a good realtionship with her!!!

nonny2t
04-20-2007, 02:54 PM
We didn't have any real trouble until our dd went off to college. She returned home after the first semester and went to work. I had begged, cajoled, argued, yelled whatever about her room as it was not only in the very front of our apartment, but was a total total pig sty. Ater a particularly nasty blowup with her dad and I she screamed at us and stomped out of the house. Her dad took the door off her room. When she returned she threw a fit. Her room opened up into the living room and everyone would be able to see what a pig she was living like, empty soda cans, food, dishes, clothing, you get the idea. She said she had rights to privacy. Dad said "He who makes the gold makes the rules!" Her dad told her she got the door back when she cleaned the room, completely all of it and to my satisfaction. She moved out the next day and never returned home again. She is now almost 30, married and has her own son that is almost 7.

With our son, his biggest uh-oh moment came when he lied to stay overnight at friends, skipped school with a bunch of them and went to Chicago for a concert (Chicago is about 2.5 hours from where our home was) The school called, of course, because there were a dozen kids all friends missing from school. The office was going to let all the kids off once they notified the parents, but Jack said absolutely not. Not only did Jay get zeros for all his classes, so did his all friends because though the other parents were ok with it even though they didn't know, the school felt it was only fair to do to all what one got. He came home, lied to his dad again, and dad dropped the bomb by telling him the school had called! UH-OH! Dad dropped the bomb, grounded for a month, have to ride the school bus (he was a senior) no friends to the house, etc. These were the days before cells, ipods, super computers and the like. He had to go to school and come right home for a whole month. He is now almost 34, married and expecting his first son in just a little over a month. If you asked him what his worst punishment was, he will tell you this story.

With all that being said, we are not supposed to be our kids friends. We are their parents and it is our duty to bring them up to be responsible adults. You need to do what you think is best to get her attention. I applaud you for having the courage to do some very difficult things. Be patient, she will hate you before she loves you again. Stay tough and one day, know that one day, she will thank you for it!

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 02:58 PM
You bring up an interesting point. But I really don't think I'm reacting out of hurt. It's more of a thing where we've done things here and there (grounding, etc...), but never done things that were so drastic and meant so much to her. I think once she understands that her actions affect EVERY part of her life, maybe it will "click." And, I plan to stick with it for the long haul...as you said, consistency.

She simply doesn't understand that our actions have consequences. I liken it to what God expects of us when we ultimately answer to Him. He has laid out the consequences, and we choose the outcome. Same thing with her.

I like the "contract" idea and will probably do this so we're all on the same page.

Thanks for the support!

Stiney
04-20-2007, 03:13 PM
Good luck, and I hope it doesn't get any worse.

I know how frustrating it is, I've watched how little respect my brother has for the family and how it destroys relationships and is hurtful.

But I'd take your dd over my not-so-dear brother any day. I won't get into what he's done here, but it makes your dd look like a saint, and I don't want to belittle your situation. :hug:

I think you are taking good steps by taking away from her what she most desires. As mentioned, as you said you understood, you MUST follow-through, or you will undermine your position and further undermine her respect. But all punishment with no incentive probably won't work either.

I'd suggest sitting down with her, discussing clearly everything you expect from her, so that she knows what she does to upset you. (My mother likes to get upset that people don't help her with xyz, but doesn't tell us beforehand that she wants help with xyz.) Explain why you are taking away privileges, and emphasize that they are privileges, not rights. (Bed is a right, though. Leave that in her room.) Set a minimum length for the punishments. Once this threshold is reached, good behavior should be rewarded by a gradual relaxation of the punishments. Any infractions will lose those privileges. This shows her that her bad behavior has negative consequences (losing privileges.), and her good behavior has postive consequences (regaining privileges.)

But I'm practically still a kid, myself. So do what you think is right. :heart:

saracidaltendencies
04-20-2007, 03:48 PM
I myself do not have teenage children, but I do have a 5 year old and a 2 year old.

Consistency was mentioned earlier and I could not agree more. Children are a lot smarter than many adults give them credit for and they pick up on things like inconsistency, etc. They know just how to push mom and dad's buttons and they also know how far they can push. You have to push harder.

There have been many times my daughter has not listened to my husband or me or has been defiant and no matter how badly you want to cave in once you say something like no tv, or no toys/computer, whatever, you just cannot. Children must know they do not make the rules, parents make the rules. However, a parent must also know how to pick and choose their battles. If a parent punishes a child too much, the child won't care anymore; they will remain defiant because they will feel they will get in trouble no matter what they do. On the flip side, if you don't punish enough, the child will know they can get away with almost anything and will go as far as they can. It's a very delicate balance.

One thing mentioned that I disagree with, however, is a parent should not be a friend to their child/children. Personally, I couldn't disagree more. I feel parents should be their child/children's BEST friend and always make sure they let their children know they can come to mom and/or dad with anything. The last thing any parent wants or should do is to build barriers between them and their kids. It's not good for the kids and definitely not good for the parents. Not only should a parent make their child feel secure in coming to them with anything, it's equally important to let your child know how much you love them. Teenage years are hard. There is usually a lot of pressure with school, friends, grades, school activities and while to most adults, that may pale in comparison to adult life, for a teenager, it can be quite stressful. Teenagers are still figuring out who they are and it can be a confusing, stressful time in a teens life. I know I wasn't always a perfect child, but I was nowhere near a bad child either. I was a teenager and my parents understood that. I did have rules, but I also had freedom. I was allowed to make mistakes and for the minor mistakes, I was not punished; my parents gave me room to learn from my mistakes. My parents have always been my best friends, I know I can go to them with anything and I could even when I was a kid. They always left the doors of communication open and never punished me over little things. I strive to be the type of parents my mom and dad are; I have always known they love me, even when they would get mad at me. And, they never left a "fight." They would make 100% sure there was resolution; that I understood why I was being punished and always ended any argument with a kiss and hug and I love you.

Honestly, I think you are in the right in the decisions you have made in regards to your child's punishment. Kids need to know there will be consequences to negative actions, just as an adult would face consequences to negative actions, whether it be at work or in general. I think most important of all though is to let your daughter know, calmly, even if it's in a note you write to her and have her read with you sitting right there, how badly she has hurt you and how badly she makes you feel. Also let her know you love her; she is your child and you would do anything for her, but her actions are way out of line and in order for you to respect her feelings and needs, she must respect yours in return.

I wish you luck in your situation and hope there is a positive resolution for all of you.

mimi
04-20-2007, 03:57 PM
I have been in your shoes, and have never felt a pain like the kind I suffered when my 15 year old son was going through the same thing. Most of the time he wouldn't even speak to us, and when he did he was rude and disrespectful. I would go into his room at night while he was asleep to give him a kiss. (Aren't I just pathetic?) But his grades were good, and most importantly, his friends were good.

For whatever reason, some teenagers just have to go through this thing, whatever it is, and you have to maintain your rules, but choose your battles, and love her, love her, love her.

PaperGirl
04-20-2007, 03:59 PM
My daughter is 11, and her father has her for summer visitation, and some times during the school year.

I have found out through my daughter that my ex has beaten on his new wife, and scared my daughter and her stepsister so bad that they have to call his mother to come help them. NOw, having said that, I was quite amazed when she have the courage to tell me this, cause she thought I would be mad at her.

Which I wasnt, of course. I was heartbroken that at such a young age, she has to deal with that crap from her own father...so I told her that I was proud of her for trusting me and DH enough to tell us this.

I think my point is, Im sure that someday, my oldest will rebel against us, and Ill be in your shoes. And Ive already made thoughts and ideas as to how to work through it. So far, the worst punishment shes had is a weekend of grounding.

TBH, I would let her go to the summer camp. As the captain, I would say its important. But *not* the championship. And I would leave her bed, but take her door off the hinges. If she cant respect you as she should, than she doesnt deserve to have the door.

And my mom used to do this to us....if there was disrespect, one of our treasured possession went to another sibling for a parental determined amount of time. Although, this was in the day when it was Walkmans, and books. No iPods, or cell phones.

Other than that, Im not sure what else to offer, except a great big hug! :hug:

tarrentella
04-20-2007, 04:03 PM
In my honest opinion i think you are over reacting.
Ig in every other way she is a good kid,but it is just a question of her manners and her respect then you should make sure that you don't end up treating her like a bad kid.

Certainly you have to do somthing but you have to make sure the punishment fits the crime. If she had been drinking, staying out all the time, skipping school etc, then certainly, grounding removal of cell phone etc is warented, but in a case where it is just and issue of respect (and please dont think the 'just' meen i am miinimilising the issue of respect becaus i dont meen to) then perhaps you have to start showing her what the effects of disrespect are.

For example i whent through a phase of being disrespectful with my fammily (as do all teenagers lets face it) she grounded me, took away my tv, talked to me shouted at me all sorts. But only when she quitee deliberatly stopped showing me respect did it get though. I was not grounded for a time, and during that tme, if i asked for somthing i would get a rude answer, my dinner might not always be cooked for me, anything i did got no acknowledgment and so on. At first i could ignore it, but after a short while i realised how horrible it was to be treated in such a way and apologised to my mum and got my act together.

Praise your daughter for the areas she is good in (i.e. schhol, and soccer) but don't give her ANYTHING when it comes to her attitude. dont be angry, dont be sad dont ignore it just dont give her the respect she hasnt earnt.

PCwombat
04-20-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm still a teenager myself, 18, so I think that makes it easier for me to see the situation from both sides. First, off, I definitely agree that if you feel it's necessary, you must do something. When you do lay down the law, however, make sure you tell her exactly what and why you're doing it. I also agree with some of the other posters that there should be rewards for good behavior. Perhaps a complete lack of priviledges for one week, and then, if she was well behaved, give her back one reward, maybe tv or something, and see how that goes for another week. If she reverts back, then back to no priviledges again. I would allow the camp if her behavior improves because if she's that good at soccer, it could mean a full college scholarship later down the road.

Nobones
04-20-2007, 04:11 PM
I just want to say goodluck and I think your doing the right thing. My mum had this problem with my sister. It was hell for the whole household. My stepdad wanted to go down your route, but my mother wanted softly softly. My sister is 22, and a horrible young woman. She has few friends and no boyfriend. I haven't spoke to her in a year, and she only contacts my mum when she wants money. Stick at it. It will be better for her, better for your family, and I'm sure when she's an adult she'll thank for it.

cando
04-20-2007, 04:15 PM
If a parent punishes a child too much, the child won't care anymore; they will remain defiant because they will feel they will get in trouble no matter what they do. On the flip side, if you don't punish enough, the child will know they can get away with almost anything and will go as far as they can. It's a very delicate balance.

I was coming here to post something very similar. I feel for you, those years can be really hard on both the child as well as the parents.

I was a troublesome teenager between ages 16-18. The issues were different but the attitude was the same. In my case it wasn't disrespect, it was either withdrawal or fighting. And again in my case, anything I perceived as drastic punishment made me so mad it only made me behave worse. I figured since they were punishing me anyway I might as well "earn" it. Once, my dad removed the lock from my door because I constantly stomped away into my room and locked it. It didn't make me spend more time in the living room, I spent it all outside with my friends.
It's been 10 years now (I'm 28 ) and my parents and I have a wonderful relationship. As soon as I moved out of home, my attitude changed completly *sigh*

I don't know if I have a single point to make. I don't have children so I can only speak from the perspective of the kid, having been there.
It is very important to have authority over your child, to make it known you're the one making the rules, but not so harshly that it seems easier to walk away and be "free".
The cell phone, friends visiting, ipod, laptop, boom box - all this I agree with. But I'm not sure about taking away from her what she might consider her "escape" - football. I wouldn't leave her with no way out. Just enough so she is without luxuries.

I hope she grows out of it soon and wish you good luck in the meantime. Take care!

blueeyes28
04-20-2007, 04:26 PM
You are doing the right thing I was awful to my mom as a teenager and I'll tell you why, because I could be! I took out all my bad moods on her and every other thing you could imagine if she would have laid down the law and let me know who was the boss I think things would have gone smoother for all of us in my house.These are the important years ones I wish I could get back so that I could do everything different, she will regret treating you this way one day too.

janelanespaintbrush
04-20-2007, 04:37 PM
For example i whent through a phase of being disrespectful with my fammily (as do all teenagers lets face it) she grounded me, took away my tv, talked to me shouted at me all sorts. But only when she quitee deliberatly stopped showing me respect did it get though. I was not grounded for a time, and during that tme, if i asked for somthing i would get a rude answer, my dinner might not always be cooked for me, anything i did got no acknowledgment and so on. At first i could ignore it, but after a short while i realised how horrible it was to be treated in such a way and apologised to my mum and got my act together.

I have absolutely no experience with adolescents (except for having been one many, many years ago), but I have to say that the above approach makes sense to me. As a teenager, it took me a long time to realize that my Mom's feelings were hurt when I teased her about her weight. I don't know why, but I guess I just thought she was immune to such things. I think it's possible that your daughter is similarly clueless about how much she hurts you. Rather than taking away her privileges (which may just make her more angry and rebellious) maybe a healthy dose of enlightenment would do some good.

DQ
04-20-2007, 05:00 PM
I think I agree with most of the punishment but would not going to soccer camp really affect a future soccer career for her? You might not get the positive affect you're hoping for if you're taking away her future dreams.

Paws4Knitting
04-20-2007, 05:16 PM
I was a difficult teenager, I was about 15- 16, and I needed someone to take control. I picked my boyfriend over my mom, I was disrespectful, rude, quite frankly (so not all of you think these patterns still exist) mean!

I say you are doing the right thing!!!!

I tell my husband constantly how my kids will not have their own car- the'll share one, there won't be a TV in their rooms, I think there is needs to be a stopping point with kids anymore. Most are out of control. I have never seen so many kids wearing the ads of Juicy, Abercrombie, Coach, etc.- I am not saying this is bad, but we are creating a generation of immediate gratification.

Paws4Knitting
04-20-2007, 05:27 PM
I was once a teenager and I have to say- I think you are doing the right thing.

I think kids have way too much anymore and they lack respect. I am constantly aware of how much these kids have and how they take it for granted. All they do is want, want, want. I heard from a mother recently of their young daughter already placing a claim on the things she would want when something happens to her mom. Ouch!!!!

I say take away the material things- she doesn't need them. Don't take away the bed, but I fully agree of removing the door. The soccer tournament- she is part of a team, and I would say she needs to be there. Plus- that is something she does well and succeeds at- I would let her go, but I would drive her and take her home- or I would allow her to go to the game but not to any of the events after.

When I used to get in trouble, one thing my mom would do to let me have some of my freedoms back was right 5,000 times what I did wrong and that I wouldn't do it again. At, the time, everything was taken away for 9 weeks and I wanted to go to a party and the seonc time, wanted to spend the night- in order to earn that privelege back- that is what I did.

I tell my husband constantly that our children will not have individual cars- they will have to learn to share, and be respectful of one another's time. I constantly had my car and I did whatever I wanted. My husband on the other hand was a very respectful son, so he sees my point and will back me- but he said it also depends on the kids.

I say you need to be consistent and follow through. I would sit her down and tell her exactly what is wrong again, and if she doesn't listen, down with the ax. Tell her, you don't like me now, there will be no difference when I take away your things then. Let her earn them back.

Most of all- Good Luck! I can't tell you how I apologize to my mom over and over again for how misbehaved I was when I was 15 and 16.

CarmenIbanez
04-20-2007, 05:36 PM
In my honest opinion i think you are over reacting.
Ig in every other way she is a good kid,but it is just a question of her manners and her respect then you should make sure that you don't end up treating her like a bad kid.



I have to disagree with this. NOT treating bad kids like bad kid makes them bad adults, many of who I work with. Manners and behavior are really what will get you through the adult world. Some of you are young and don't have children, or haven't been out in the adult world a lot, and that is fine. The reality is that the adult child relationship is the preparation that everyone gets for being an adult. The one thing that most kids are not learning today is that sometimes you are not in charge. Sometimes your parents are in charge, or your boss is in charge or whatever. Children today think they are always equal to everyone, they have no sense of hierarchy, either in the home or in the world. If a child wants to be respected, they have to earn it. Parents get to have it automatically. That might seem harsh, but life is tough.

Whether or not you are doing the right thing is so entirely dependent on your child. I happen to know that my son will break and give in. So I know I can push him pretty hard, and eventually get the result I want. But every child is different. There are some kids that will never give in, no matter what. Only you know which kind of child you have.

letah75
04-20-2007, 05:40 PM
Hey, just my two cents. Again with the bed, ya gotta leave that in the room. The door can come off, electronics out of the room, etc. I laying down the law is necessary. If you have examined your motives and it's not a you hurt me so I'll get you thing (which it doesn't sound like at all, it sounds like a parenting decision) then you are good.

Definately talk to her and let her know the family has reached its limit, and things have to change. Go as a united front with your dh, talk don't yell, but stick to it once you've committed. Set up a contract, that you, your dh, and she agree on. Ex:

When i am able to go one week without disrespecting anyone in the family I will get my radio back.

When I am able to go two weeks without yelling I will get......back.

You said she's basically a good kid but disrespectful to you, dh, and a little bit to grandparents, that needs to be stopped! If it was normal teenaged mom and daughter don't get along, that's one thing, but berating in public, berating at all is not cool.

One thing mentioned that I disagree with, however, is a parent should not be a friend to their child/children. Personally, I couldn't disagree more. I feel parents should be their child/children's BEST friend and always make sure they let their children know they can come to mom and/or dad with anything. The last thing any parent wants or should do is to build barriers between them and their kids. It's not good for the kids and definitely not good for the parents. Not only should a parent make their child feel secure in coming to them with anything,

Not to disagree but I don't think this is a description of a parent being a friend. :teehee: I know when I say don't be your kid's friend be their parent this isn't what I'm talking about. At least when I say this I am talking about not holding your child accountable for their actions because you don't want them to be "mad" at you.

Keeping open the lines of communiction, talking to your children and listening to them is not being their "friend" IMHO it is being a parent. Discipline is an extreamly important part of being a parent but by no means is it the only part. My parents were very open with me, and we talked all the time. By no means did I tell them everything, and the older I got, the more I kept my own counsel on certian thing. But that is a part of growing up and becoming independant.

There are more and more people out in the world today who don't want their kids mad at them, they don't want to struggle to raise their kids. (Demonica I'm definately NOT talking about you :teehee: , just trying to explain the "not being your kids friend thing") They want to chit chat with them, gossip, and have their kids grow up magically well adjusted by giving them no consequences, and by helping them out of any difficult situations. I see this all the time. "I know my kid took a knife to school, but he shouldn't have been cited", "I know my kid has to be on house arrest, but he's not a bad kid", "I know my kid is 30 years old, and didn't show up for Court, but you don't have to arrest him". A major part of growing up is learining that behavior has consequences negative or positive but consequences none the less. When kids aren't allowed to see what those consequences are, they are so much less able to deal with the real world when they are out on their own.

I know I veared off topic sorry. In my view a parents job is to do what they can to raise a child who is good, healthy, emotionally strong/resielient and able to take on life. Sometimes parents look back and say, "Oh, I wish i hadn't done that", but if you are working in the best intrest of your child, don't regret, don't second guess yourself. You do the best you can with what you know. You know your child better than anyone. What works for one kid/person wont necessarly work for the next. If she loves soccer and cell phones, then take it. If she loves t.v. and computer then take it. Let her live with the consequences, but let her understand them, and help her to realize that when she corrects her behavior then things get better.

Sorry for the rant, hope it all makes sense.

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auburnchick
04-20-2007, 05:43 PM
Wow! Y'all posted quite a bit between when I got off of work and finally got home after errands!

Thanks for all of the interesting ideas and insights.

DH and I haven't sat her down yet but we're going to in the next couple of hours.

I have to tell you that I have always had a very open relationship with my children. I have always tried to make them feel like they could come to me and talk to me about anything. I have always been supportive. I have made career choices to best suit their needs -- to ensure I am here with them when they aren't at school. But, I don't feel like we're necessarily supposed to be our children's friends. We are the authority figures in our children's lives. You can be that and have a loving, friendly relationship with them. I think that when you try too hard to be your child's friend, they get confused about where the line exists between parent and "friend."

The soccer thing is probably something y'all may not understand. She has played travel soccer since she was seven years old. We have paid thousands and thousands of dollars for training, travel, and equipment. We even moved to another city based on the record of the travel team in the city. She has gotten so good that she made the state Olympic Development team and only missed, by a hair, making the U.S. regional team.

She has taken for granted that she can act however she wants toward us, and she has done this in front of other people too. That is why taking away two trips (if the team makes it that far) to south FL (very, very costly), as well as the training camp, will make her realize, hopefully, just what this is costing everyone. And if she is supposed to be a "leader," then what kind of example is she setting if she's putting me down or yelling at me (or outright disobeying me) in front of her teammates?? I think it would send more of a message if they know she can't go because of her attitude problems.

I have to say that I agree with your suggestions about incentives...giving back certain privileges with the possibility of losing them again if the behavior turns bad again. That builds trust.

Oh, and one comment about the bed...I know that sounds pretty radical, but honestly I don't believe it's a "right." Housing is a right, food and water is a right, but a bed is a comfort. And she does love her bed. While I don't think I'm going to take it away, I am going to keep it in the back of my mind.

Anyhow, y'all are TREMENDOUS!!! What a wonderful, encouraging group of people you are!!!!!


:muah:

Now, wish me luck as I go into the other room...

XbelovedXoneX
04-20-2007, 05:48 PM
I can openly admit now that as a teenager I was pretty terrible to my mom. We are sooo much alike, which is why we didn't get along well until I was about 18 or 19(I'm 24 now). I think most of what you are doing is right and is pretty close to what my mom did to me. One option instead of taking her bed out of her room is to take the door off her room. My mom did this to me several times! You really can't let your child walk all over you, or they will never respect you. My mom did the best she could with me, and we get along amazingly now. I was just a very moody, depressed pre-teen/teenager. She never cut me any slack and I give her credit for that. I do think they you should try and sit down and have a serious discussion over your relationship and her behaviors. Don't make her feel like you are just picking on her, make it into an open conversation. Good luck!! :hug:

kblue
04-20-2007, 05:52 PM
Well don't let her being a good student and a good person to others be an excuse for her to not be a good respectful daughter to you and your DH. Whatever you decided to do be sure to stick with it and be ready for lots more disrespect incase she rebels. I was a total pain in the a$$ to my mom when she tried to punish me. Oh ya, don't forget to cover you're loop holes too. There's always a way to get around some punishments so beware. Loop holes like...you drop her off somewere only to find out she goes somewhere else with friends after you leave, or she's grounded off the phone/cell but when you leave her alone she sneaks her calls. Sorry to say but if the soccer thing is REALLLLY important to her then thats definatly the button to push. If it ruins her chances for someting better in life then its her own fault. Another thing is you NEED to make sure that when she is acting in a manner you like/ appreciate you need to let her know that so that she know you know she's making the positive changes you and DH want and reward her for that asap.

nadja la claire
04-20-2007, 05:53 PM
WOW! That's tough!!!! :hug:

You know I was a difficult teenager but my parents always offered carrots along with the sticks. If you take everything away from her then she's got nothing to lose. Trust me you do not want a teenager who thinks she's got nothing to lose. Let her stay in her room, take the other stuff she doesn't need it anyway, but let her keep her room, with the door on, we all need someplace we can go and hide from the world sometimes. Sit her down and let her know that you love her and also let her know how much it hurts you when she treats you so badly and tell her that you don't want to take her privileges away from her and that she can get them back. There must be a reason why she's being so difficult. I don't know how to get to the root, maybe a neutral third party can be of help.

Good Luck my friend, she's 15, when she's 40 and complaining about her kids you can thank God for grandchildren and chuckle. I know I do and so did my mom.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja xxx

Paws4Knitting
04-20-2007, 06:05 PM
I support you. You sound like you know what she needs and like the other parent said- you need to draw the line. And that is making her aware you are in charge and should be- she is underage, and is stillunder your guidance.

I have to agree with Carmen- this is preparing kids for the real world, and we need great adults- this world, definitely needs more great people with respect and sincerity, loyalty, and hardworkers. I am typing this of course, at work... maybe I should go!!! LOL!!!! :teehee:

Again, GOOD LUCK to you. Some of my favorite mentors were those that where hard on me.

letah75
04-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Oh, and one comment about the bed...I know that sounds pretty radical, but honestly I don't believe it's a "right." Housing is a right, food and water is a right, but a bed is a comfort. And she does love her bed. While I don't think I'm going to take it away, I am going to keep it in the back of my mind.


I suggest prior to taking her bed (if you do) you contact your local CPS. I know where I am you are only required to provide your kids with 3 sets of cloting, something to sleep on (bed, sofa, etc) and food/drink. Different requirements for different states.

You don't want to get yourself in trouble.

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 06:24 PM
Ok...just did the nasty. Boy was she shocked. She's crying in her room (on her bed) right now. :verysad:

We sat her down and explained how she had made us feel, and how this did not come out of the blue but had been building over the last several years. We added that we have frequently warned her that it could come down to serious repercussions, but that she never believed us.

I also held out the carrot of incentive. She's pretty devastated though.

Tough love...next few weeks are going to be really hard...

Paws4Knitting
04-20-2007, 06:33 PM
You did the right thing. I am glad to hear you guys approached this together and maybe she will realize how much she has hurt you both. There needs to be that realization. :hug: :hug: :hug:

letah75
04-20-2007, 06:41 PM
auburnchick :hug: :heart: :hug: :heart: :hug: :heart: :hug: when you need to vent you know where to go. I believe you are doing the right thing, and I hope everything goes as smoothly as possible.

I have to say, it is nice to see a parent so concerned with every aspect of their child's behavior. If your daughter doesn't "appriciate" your actions there are plenty of us who do. Stay strong....what did that old commercial say? "Never let 'em see you sweat?" :teehee:

Jan in CA
04-20-2007, 06:43 PM
Oh boy. Been there done that. I'm not sure that taking everything away at once is the right thing though. If nothing changes you have nothing left to work with. I see you've already talked to her though. I hope it works for you and she learns that she can't treat people poorly and get what she wants.

SabrinaJL
04-20-2007, 06:50 PM
I just wanted to wish you luck. My brother lived with me from the ages of 14-19. There were definitely times it was REALLY rough. We also used the loss of certain things (cell phone, computer, friends, school trips, etc...) as punishment. Around age 17 he started acting like a normal human being again. Now he's finally getting his stuff together and I really like the person he's become.

And my daughter just turned 13, so it's starting all over again for me.

suecq
04-20-2007, 06:59 PM
I fully support your actions. In our house (we have 2 teenage boys 15 & 16) we practice an Amish restriction. That means nothing electronic. This includes electric (of course no candles allowed) so it usually results in an early bedtime. A frequent problem with teens is isolation from the family. They stay in their rooms and seldom interact with their parents. When we put them on an Amish restriction we do allow them to spend time in the living room if we are also in there. After a day or two of going to bed with the sun they start coming into the living room. This has led to some real good family discussions and activities.

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 07:08 PM
Oh boy. Been there done that. I'm not sure that taking everything away at once is the right thing though. If nothing changes you have nothing left to work with. I see you've already talked to her though. I hope it works for you and she learns that she can't treat people poorly and get what she wants.

You know, Jan, we have tried pulling things away before. But the thing about grounding and/or item removal (cell phone, computer, etc.) is that eventually, they get the item back. They know they are going to get it back in a week or whatever the term is. I've made this open-ended...meaning that she could get it back (perhaps sooner if genuine change is observed) or she might not. I think this will have more of an impact than just "waiting out" the prison term...so to speak.

Thanks again for all of the love! Y'all are the BEST!!!! :muah: :muah: :hug: :hug:

snowbear
04-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Stand fast... ifyou need a shoulder we're here. If you need to talk anytime pm me.. I've been at the end of no respect. I gave in when I thought my duaghter had changed, when in fact she only changed to get what she wanted then changed back.

Bear hugs your way.. you need them.. I wish I had the guts to do what you did.

Bear hugs,

snowbear

kblue
04-20-2007, 07:43 PM
GOOD FOR YOU :happydance:

You did the right thing :hug: . It'll be one of those things she will appreciate when she has kids. My mom always said to me you'll understand when you're older/when you have kids and i totally do understand now because i am older and i do have kids and if my kids ever try the stuff i did as a teen they're going to have it in for sure...i learn form one of the best :teehee: . Well if you don't take away the bed you could always take away the door to her room... if she needs privacy she can use the bathroom...living the way shes living and having the things she has is a privilage<--sp? not a right. I hate to say it but really it's your house and your rules.

phisch
04-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Oh wow. I am reading this thread and taking notes. I have two boys and they're both strong-willed but in different ways. They say that the behaviors they have as a toddler can come back when they're teenagers...so I'm scared of those years.

But how do they say it, what goes around comes around? Yeah...I wasn't a good teenager. To be honest, my mom and dad had weaknesses and I exploited them. I was horribly disrespectful and she didn't ever deal with it correctly. There were times when lines were drawn and kept. I yelled and ranted and raved but deep down inside, I was relieved when that happened. I never verbalized it, but I really wanted those parental boundaries.

I think you're doing right by sticking to it. Hopefully, in 10 years you'll all talk about this at a get-together and be able to chuckle over it.

Sara
04-20-2007, 07:48 PM
I have to say that I had a loving, happy daughter who liked me and then one day she turned 15.

:wall: :wall: :wall:

I am glad that we lived through it. :teehee:

I don't have any advice (mine would have been the same as Cawthraven's, well put dear! :thumbsup: )


Keep your chin up! I'm pulling for ya! :muah:

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 07:53 PM
I gave in when I thought my duaghter had changed, when in fact she only changed to get what she wanted then changed back.

Ouch! Been there and kind of did that (much shorter/less intense groundings). I've been bamboozled before. I won't be done that way again. :teehee:

Just so y'all know...I have a 12yo (soon to be 13yo) son. His personality is WAY different than dd's. He is so much easier going. I'm keeping my fingers crossed :pray: that I don't have to worry about this with him, but from the looks of it, I probably won't have to. Dd was much, much worse at his age.

Now where is that Amaretto Sour...if I were the drinking type, I would have drank a few by now. :clink: :teehee:

Oh, and BTW, dh asked her to do something and got a nasty reply back...nice way to start, eh? I --- will --- not --- give --- in --- !!!

saracidaltendencies
04-20-2007, 08:03 PM
I apologize for not making clear exactly what I mean by a parent being a friend. Of course I'm not implying being a friend in the sense a teen friend of theirs would be or someone who declines to hold their child accountable for their negative behaviors, but often times kids tend to see their parents not even so much as parents, but their enemies. Many times a kid will think their parents won't let them do certain things just because they are mean or they take certain privileges away for absolutely no reason and their image of their parents becomes that of an enemy. I don't know, I guess it's easier to say than describe because I know the relationship I have and have always had with my parents and while I always viewed them as my parents, I also viewed them as my friends.

If a parent doesn't hold a child accountable, that's not, in my opinion, being a "friend" like parent, that's just being a lousy parent who doesn't want to deal with the problems in front of them.

When I think of a friend, I think of a person who is there for you when you need them, a person who will pick you up when you are down, a person who will always be there for you, a person who will guide you in the right direction and tell you honestly when they think you have made a mistake or done something wrong, when you should apologize, etc. There's no reason a parent cannot also fill that role. Just because a parent can be considered a friend, doesn't take away from the fact they are still the parent, they still make the rules and there are going to be consequences when those rules are broken.

I guess I mean basically, don't build up a wall that your child cannot pass...I don't think it's wise to take the approach that well, I'm the parent and that's that. No relationship is one sided and parenting shouldn't be one sided either.



Back on topic...lol...I'm glad you had the chance to talk to your daughter and hopefully she will realize the seriousness of the situation. Hopefully things will only get better instead of worse and the outcome will be positive. I'll be thinking of you and hoping all goes well.

ecb
04-20-2007, 08:28 PM
WOW
I am going through asimilar thing with my 15yo DD
I agree that being a parent odes not mean being a teen aged friend (yes, yes, yes, you are right...) but to be a TRUE friend (I do not like when you do that, let me know when your willing to be MY friend again)

Taking away gifts and privaleges is needed (Cell phone, I-Pod, fancy Camp, after school events, TV, Radio, Movies, even family outings *yes I have gotten a babysitter for a child that acted badly when the family went out* or going with me to my summer job at a Summer camp)
but remember, earning back priveleges is a gradual ting
the small ones come first, the big ones LAST.

My 15yo is not living with us after her last day of school this year until she earns the right back. We go to coourt next month to have her temperary guardian set in place, and to have her take the placement exam for Public school. She has been told since she was 8 that ANY drug use will result in her living elsewhere. She pushed that envelope, this is her ONE cance to earn her way back into the family. Once she is allowed to live with us, she has to earn back the right to go to after school activities, to watch movies or TV, or to take drama class.

She has also been stealing, Lieing, and being disrespectful. if she does ANY one thing she looses staying @ school and going to her school trip.
she did not believe me last time I spoke to her, this time she did. I have told all the administrators at the school what she has been doing, so she cannot hide within their 'Support Track" that is in place to help kids get though innapropriate behaviors or troubling times. the problem with it is that the Support staff, is not allowed to discuss what they hear in session with the Dorm parents unless it is life threatening. So the Drinking, Multi partner S*x activity, sneaking off campus, never gets divulged to the dorm parents who are supposed to be MONITORING the kids behavior. I do not tollerate that kind of sneaking around, and coddling. One of the things my daughter has to do to get school activities back, is appologise to my Mother who paid for her Private school this past year, for her breaking the rules and the LAW while at this school.

let me stop rantgin about my own problems

ecb

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 08:48 PM
Hey Demonica...thanks for the clarification. :hug: There's so much of that "friend" talk thing out there...I hope I didn't offend you. :hug:

Ecb, wow! My daughter's issues seem so small compared to your's. I'm so sorry!!! Hang in there dear. I think it speaks volumes at the steps you are taking.

I have always told my daughter that I love her no matter what. She will never do anything that will take my love away. However, I cannot stand her behavior right now. We told her that she would never treat one of her friends the way she treats us. I told her than when she's about to speak to us in a nasty tone, to try to stop and imagine herself saying it to her best friend. Who knows...

Anyhow, as I keep saying, y'all are the BEST!

AnaK
04-20-2007, 09:02 PM
I am sorry you are going trough this. I have 15yo DS and know how things can go at times.
I would also recomend counseling on top of the taking priviledges . I did it and we found it very helpfull. I am glad my Ds can come to me now and tell me what is bothering him without being disrespectfull.
Good luck

Susan P.
04-20-2007, 09:33 PM
I haven't had time to read all the replies so if I cross over what someone else has said I apologise. I was an educator for a long time, and a parent, and I've watched Dr Phil! LOL

Some comments and they are general and not intended towards you as such.

I often hear parents talking about creating rules but I often see parents allowing transgressions of those rules. The child then learns that rules aren't really rules they are power games and so on.

When you create a rule there should be clear consequences about what will happen when those rules are broken. Whining, crying and tantrums won't budge you from applying the consequence. At the same time it's important for a parent to sometimes say "I got that wrong" or "I went too far with that rule" or whatever.

Most parents get difficult periods with their teen.

I would remove the mobile unless she is earning the money to pay for i OR she 'earns' the right to have the mobile. If she gets it back and she transgresses a rule about the mobile the account is cut off again.

I may not totally remove the computer time because some..maybe not much..but some..homework etc may be achieved by looking things up BUT I would bring it out into the family living area and chain it if necessary so it can't be moved.

No, I would not pull her bed out of her room; that's dehumanising. If you think boot camp is the answer send her to boot camp proper.

I would be wary about the soccer issues and removing them from her.

You are in pain and very hurt and you need to separate (and I mean this in the nicest way *hug*) discipline tactics that are established to bring about improved behaviour and vengeance.

I would remove some things now, make it clear why they have been removed, how you feel and what expectations you have for her behaviour and demeanour towards you. Let her know that you do expect her to be angry now and resentful (because she will be - so, don't deny her that 'understanding') but that if you find she has tried to work around your rules e.g. getting someone else to establish a mobile account for her and so on, you WILL remove the soccer. But make that one soccer issue first and not the whole lot.

I am sure if you look back at her childhood you know that when you created rules YOU gave her the impression that if she waited it out no punishment really occurred. I think parents can admit that to their teens but add to that..it's time this pattern stopped and it's stopping NOW because I think you're a golden girl and a winner and yet I'm not seeing it and I want to. You are bound to be angry right now but you don't respect me and I want you to and so we are starting again and THIS time you only get things returned and you ONLY get treats etc when you've proven yourself worthy and you shown respect to be me AND yourself.

Point out to her that bad mouthing girls don't respect themselves; at best they are cloning street gang types and street gang types don't get appointed captains of teams. Try and talk when you can be calm and if she shouts walk away. Don't yell back over your shoulder or anything. Walk away. It will be hard but don't give her YOUR usual responses.

These issues are about management and response. You need to probably correct your management and mean what you say and stick to it. Be reasonable not unreasonable. Don't go from liberal to jail like - I doubt that's natural anyway :-) Pose reasonable expectations for behaviour and verbal responses and demand (not verbally but by way of your own adherence to what you establish) positive responses.

Susan P.
04-20-2007, 09:43 PM
auburnchick. Just saw your post of:
Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:24 pm

Not sure how far you went with what you said you're removing but I guess if you've said all the soccer is removed you're rather stuck with that unless you wend your way very very carefully through admitting you may have gone too far. I think you all should write down the expectations and consequences so that there is a clearly established set of 'by-laws' (so to speak).

Demonica offered an excellent point I think about parents not really being sound if they don't teach consequences. Parents need to be mindful that their children will one day enter a workplace where expectations are established and where the workers cannot just think of 'self'. In a way a family is a community where all must contribute otherwise the community becomes unhealthy.

I think auburnchick you still could admit to your daughter that in some ways you believe you may have failed making her stick to rules earlier in life. That you acted out of love but.... And that you DO love her so much that it is love, not punishment, that is driving you now to ensure this time counts!

Anyway..all the best...your latest posts sounds more confident and relieved :-)

bailsmom
04-20-2007, 10:02 PM
This is rather late in the game here, but I just read all the posts :passedout: While I agree with most of the posts on here I have to say I'm surprised at a lot of them too.

As was stated earlier the things you are taking away from her are PRIVILEGES, not Rights.

Yes, even the soccer. (sorry ladies) She won't last too long on a soccer team if she is this bad now, if she learns her lessons now, she'll have a much better chance of making it down the road.

I grew up in a fairly strict household and while I wasn't a demon-child, I wasn't an angel either. But I did have a healthy respect for my parents. They did not put up with ANYTHING. And I am a decent adult now. :P

I agree with everything you and your hubby are doing in this situation, removing the bed, wow, that takes guts. Good for you!! :cheering:

It is so great to hear that there are parents out there that give a damn about how their children grow up. And are willing to not bend and give in. I live in a part of the country that is grossly overpopulated with rude, obnoxious, selfish, disgusting children.

I pray that this all works out in the end and I'm sure it will, just hang in there. You can do it.

I sincerely applaud you and your husband. You are wonderful parents, just know that. You deserve to be treated with respect, most importantly by your children.

You are in my prayers.

Susan P.
04-20-2007, 10:29 PM
ballsmom. The issue to do with soccer for me is about degrees and degrees of issues and the fine line between punishment and vengeance.

I know as a teen girl I was goody two shoes in friends houses and loved their mums even while I was in a battle with my own.

Do you take away something where a teen MAY be at their best and may derive a lot of self esteem from?

That's such a hard call. IF the soccer removal had been threatened in the past then, yes, I can see sense if removing it now.

If it hasn't I can see arguments for and against it's removal. If auburnchick and hubby have already said it's gone pending dramatic changes then it's a done deal but those dramatic changes are better served having visual substance e.g. a list of rights/responsibilities - on both sides.

If what happens in soccer could be used as an illustrator e.g. honey, do you remember how you dealt with x or y on the team that day? That was fabulous and we'd like to see that here too..
Then some argument exists to see soccer continue.

I don't know enough to say either one way or another, but again, if the girl has been told it's gone then its gone, but one presumes she has the chance to recoup this. Not "just" wait out like perhaps before until her parents cave but actively demonstrate change. If there are a couple of months prior to that then this is achievable and perhaps some community work could be added to schedules in order to 'up' the ante on the privilege being restored.

I've seen Dr Phil mind you tell parents to remove every single toy from a child and only give one item out at a time pending behavioural changes.

But teens are young adults and if you believe deep down your teen is a good person gone astray, I think some latitude exists. Again, I don't know enough.

I had battles with my own teen but they didn't have all the toys some kids now have. They didn't have a mobile until they left home to work. They didn't have their own computer (we shared one) and so on.

I suspect we're becoming a culture of giving our kids these incredible technical privileges as a matter or course. People argue mobiles are intended only for emergency scenarios but how many people actually configure the mobile to just deliver that?

I recall seeing one Big Brother series outcome where a young teen girl had spent two thousand dollars on votes via her mobile (that her father had to pay). Why was a 13 year old given such latitude on a phone service to begin with?

I know we're moving into different topics now but I am very passionate about teaching kids online safety and overall I think we're way behind in teaching out kids to use technology well. So many are becoming slaves to the mobile or similar rather than knowing it should serve them and defined usages.

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 10:30 PM
Not sure how far you went with what you said you're removing but I guess if you've said all the soccer is removed you're rather stuck with that unless you wend your way very very carefully through admitting you may have gone too far. I think you all should write down the expectations and consequences so that there is a clearly established set of 'by-laws' (so to speak).

I just want to make sure y'all understand what we told our daughter today about soccer.

First of all, she obviously has talent. She is a very highly respected player in the state and has received recognition for her efforts. I would never totally deny her what she dreams of. When her local team broke up, we allowed her to join a team that is 2 1/2 hours away. For two years, we have taken her to practice 2-3 times per week, leaving right after school and not getting home until 11-11:30pm. My husband has taken off early most of those nights. So obviously, we would not take it all away from her without giving her a chance.

We took away the plans we had made to travel around the state to playoffs. We took away plans to let her attend one soccer camp. These are things that we would have had a hard time paying for but would have scrounged up the money somehow. It was made very clear to her that if she can clean up her act and is sincere, then she will slowly get her privileges back, including the soccer ones, although the camp is a definite no. If she can somehow become more respectful (with understandable glitches here and there as we're all human and therefore not perfect), then we will gladly let her continue in the sport.

BUT, she has used this talent against us ever since she started playing competitively at the age of 7. We have always been careful not to "upset" her before games and on tournament weekends. She's basically the queen bee.

We created a monster...

We have, at times, taken away everything BUT soccer. And for long lengths of time too. The closest we ever came to taking away the soccer for good was when she created a myspace account after being forced to shut one down and after being instructed NOT to create one again. That was the closest we came, and we were serious, and she knew it. I know for a fact that she has not created another account of any kind because she knew we were serious.

However, she still continued to be disrespectful, turning it up many notches each week.

Obviously, we've got to use something that matters to her the most.

Would it hurt me if her soccer future was affected? You betcha. But do I want her being able to hold down a job in the future (or perhaps not get kicked off a future world cup team :teehee: because she was disrespecful to the coaches)?? No.

One of the biggest wrongs we can do our children is to enable them to be irresponsible adults. They develop habits/patterns while they are young. She is so used to talking to us the way she does that she can't even hear the disrespect in her voice. That's pretty sad...but with much prayer and perseverance, we'll make it through.

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 10:43 PM
The issue to do with soccer for me is about degrees and degrees of issues and the fine line between punishment and vengeance.

Do you take away something where a teen MAY be at their best and may derive a lot of self esteem from?

I suspect we're becoming a culture of giving our kids these incredible technical privileges as a matter or course. People argue mobiles are intended only for emergency scenarios but how many people actually configure the mobile to just deliver that?

The soccer truly is not about vengence. Dh and I talked about many things today, but this really is one of the last things that we haven't done.

As far as self-esteem, I agree that this certainly helps her self-esteem. But what good is that if she turns around and uses it to put me down, thus taking me down a notch? Y'all have no idea what I have had to put up with over the last few years. Put-downs about my clothes, my hair, the way I talk on the phone, and even my knitting. Everything from how I spend my money to how I wear my makeup. She is totally out of control and so judgmental. I can't stop her from having her opinions, but there's something called maturity and respect that stops us from expressing negative opinions.

The technology thing is basically our gift to our children. I LOVE technology, and my job (while going to school) is as a school's computer tech. I want my children to have the skills to function in a world that has technology. We don't buy extras during the year and save it all for Christmas. Cell phones were given as a way to communicate with our children, who lead very active after-school lives and as a way for them to enjoy a bit of life. But they know that is just what it is ... a privilege and not a right. The laptops were for the long car trips we make to soccer tournaments (each can watch their own movies) as well as school stuff. Plus, I got a GREAT deal on them, and I can't resist sales.

Anyhoo, those are just my opinions. I do value y'all's so much! Thanks for such an interesting, enlightening discussion!!!!

Susan P.
04-20-2007, 10:43 PM
nathalie. Thanks for the additional explanation on the soccer.

And I applaud you for saying this:

We created a monster...

Yes you did and we reap what we sew. When she created the new MySpace account it was when she thought you really serious that she backed down. I would have cut out the soccer then. She transgressed and you essentially enabled her to continue and although she may not have done MySpace again she has probably moved laterally into bad mouthing etc.

I think we need to ensure we pose consequences that we know we'll stick to. If we said, if you do x you will never be allowed to wash your hair again! we know that is something we won't adhere to. So, its really important to ensure we threaten what we know we will carry out.

Sounds to me like you have the soccer matter in check BUT that, yes, allowing her to rule the roost prior to games etc has generated the notion that the world revolves around her and that she is to be 'catered to'. Now she needs to learn to cater to the community of family. If you sat down together and calculated all the hours spent in driving her back and forth to games and she was hit with the fact it totaled a full year of your life - or whatever - she would probably get a shock!

You could of course pitch that you will take her to games - or going to games from now on is contingent on her helping out practically - say if she located jobs in the local area (jobs you approve of like walking dogs or whatever) to help pay the fuel costs. Maybe its time she realised just how much expense etc has gone into your support of her soccer.

How are you feeling right now..strong and relieved?

auburnchick
04-20-2007, 10:55 PM
As far as paying for stuff, we have that covered. Because of her hectic schedule, she cannot work during the school year, unless it's the occasional babysitting, mowing my yard, or washing my car (I do not pay for regular chores and my children get regular allowances as a way to learn to handle money, save, and tithe). BUT, she does have the money concept down. Watching us live hand-to-mouth has taught her that. She often pays for things that are extra (extra clothes, friends' gifts, things for her dog), and she knows the value of a dollar.

The myspace thing -- the first time was an issue where a friend created it for her, and she was told not have another one. Because a friend created it for her, we didn't punish her. We simply explained the dangers of it and explained that she was not allowed to have one. When we discovered the second one, we didn't feel like we could take away the soccer because (as you initially questioned), we felt that would be too drastic of a first repercussion. But we scared the bajeepers out of her -- hence her avoidance of it to the point where she doesn't even go to the site to look at other people's spaces.

How do I feel right now?? Mixed emotions. I'm dreading the call to her friends' (twins) mom -- the ones she's supposed to go out of town with after school ends. But I'm hoping the mom will understand. She's already raised two girls. And I absolutely dread what is going to be said when dh tells her coach she won't be going to state cup in a couple of weeks.

I guess I'm just nervous. I'm rooting so hard for her to make good choices. And it really is hard to see your child crying (yes, on the bed)...sobbing. I almost feel like what a parent of a drug addict must feel like. You know that the addict (in my case, my daughter is addicted to making other people feel bad) will hate you for taking away their drug, but in the end they will be much better.

Wow...when you decide to have children, you don't really picture them as teenagers, do you???

Susan P.
04-20-2007, 11:21 PM
Hi again. I think you and I differ Nathalie in some respects about the technology matter ... however, I think on the issue of your daughter openly critiquing you on each and every element. Like another poster suggested, I would be seeking counseling if it's that bad because underneath all that there is a single message and locating that may be important to recovery in the situation.

I used to dream of a buddy I could talk to and chat to about life and the world when he was born. We can do that on and off but his city business orientation is a distance from my somewhat small town life. When we are together we can fight like nothing on earth but then I laugh with my son perhaps more than with anyone else I know. But he's very different to me and frankly in some respects I am very glad of that!

Parenting is a challenge but I find, even now and at my age, being a child/daughter is also a challenge!! arrggghhhhhh :rofl:

snowbear
04-20-2007, 11:49 PM
Auburnchick

Take a deep breath and realize love has to be tough at times. I know the pain of a child hurting you.. I know the pain of a child crying.. but know in your heart it is your responsibility to train up a child in the way he should go.

I know you believe this. Don't worry about the parent or the coach.. they aren't the ones responsible for your daughter. You & your DH are. Believe in what you are doing. Don't let any doubt cross over to her or the parents. Let your doubts come here & discuss w/ your DH..

You are doing what needs to be done. You aren't forcing them into child labor. You aren't beating them. You are providing food, shelter, clothing. Education I'm sure is high on your list.

Let Him help you when you're down.. He has very broad shoulders.

Bear Hugs...

Paws4Knitting
04-21-2007, 12:23 AM
Auburnchick,

I still stand by what you did- I think it is wonderful that you care soo much for your daughter.

Since the bed thing seems to stick out to some- I cannot help recall another parent who also removed the bed- for different reasons but to prove a point. That would be none other then the Cosby Show. Yes! The nortorious parents who we all (I think we can agree) seemed to find punishments that fit the crime.
In this case, Theo didn't know the value of money; so, they created the real world within their home, and he had to earn it all back- you know what the first thing he purchased was- his bed.

I think parents need to address their children as they see fit. I think you sound like a wonderful parent and I agree with Snowbear- do not worry what the others think- I think you'll find the coaches will back you more than anything.
:muah: :hug:

saracidaltendencies
04-21-2007, 12:35 AM
auburnchick, no, no, no offense taken! I didn't really realize until it was pointed out, my meaning of being a friend to your child wasn't made clear...lol...I had so many things going through my head as I was typing and my daughter asking me tons of questions, I kind of got sidetracked and didn't offer a good explanation...lol...It's a delicate balance, indeed.

DQ
04-21-2007, 05:59 AM
auburnchick - now you've explained the soccer thing I totally agree with you. Stay strong! :hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 06:38 AM
Wow! I am absolutely humbled at how many people have read this topic, as well as how many responses there have been.

It's clearly obvious that we all struggle, whether we're the child (even as adults) or the parent.

I truly appreciate y'all's feedback. What am AMAZING group of people...so non-judgmental, intelligent, and rational!!!

Thanks for being a wonderful sounding board.

:hug: :muah: :hug: :muah: :hug: :muah:

cookworm
04-21-2007, 07:51 AM
This could really affect her future soccer career, but I just feel like if you can't even have a normal conversation with your child, without being yelled out or put down (don't start me there), then what kind of parent am I? How am I really preparing her for her life as an adult??

Nathalie, I'm starting to go through the SAME THING with my 14 YO son. His attitude and anti-social behavior with the family is driving me NUTS!!!!!!! :hair: Unfortunately, drastic behavior calls for drastic measures. We have to get really tough sometimes with our kids, because you can only talk it out with them so much, and then they stop listening. Once you actually start doing things that affect them (taking away privileges), they sit up and notice. I think it's going to be a rough road for you taking away these things that mean a lot to your daughter, but you know what? As parents, we have to pull out these weeds of disrespect and bad attitude while they're still pretty manageable, otherwise, it'll like trying to uproot a tree later on!

I think daughters and moms go through this and sons and dads go through this the worst--they are looking at their closest gender role-model, and trying to establish their own individuality. They see character flaws in us, and they think, "If I were him/her, I'd do things really different/better!" Well, I tell my kids all the time that when they are adults in similar situations (you know, when they have to pay bills, pay a mortgage, work to support a household, have to do without to provide for children, etc.!), then they can judge. It's very easy to sit back and judge when you are not in somebody's shoes.

Maybe you can also ask your daughter when she's being critical about you what she would do differently if she were you, and why. I know for myself, I dress pretty shabby, so I would be an easy target for my kids to tease me about my clothes. My clothes are very old, but it's because everybody else comes first when they need clothes, so if one of my kids criticized my clothes, I'd ask them what they would do differently, and if they responded with something like, "Well if I were you, I'd dress more in style and I'd buy newer clothes", then I'd say, "And if that were the case, then you wouldn't have clothes when you outgrew yours or when yours got ruined, would you?"

If my kids criticized me being on the telephone (which they do occasionally), I often remind them that I'm a stay-at-home mom, and I don't have any adult conversations during the day (it gets very hard to communicate with just a two-year-old all day!), and when everybody comes home, they pretty much ignore me and do their own thing, so I still don't have anybody to converse with.

I don't know if either of these scenarios are close to what you're experiencing, but just my humble musings of my own experiences. I think that opening your daughter's eyes to what you sacrifice for her might help to change her attitude slowly. Our kids really don't have any idea about what we do for them, and sometimes it helps to remind them and point things out. Speaking as calmly to the kids as you can helps too. There are some kids that really enjoy seeing us parents worked up as then they learn which buttons to push. I try to be as calm as I can when I talk to my kids about most things so they don't think that they can push my buttons, but there are certain things in our family that are "non-negotiable" that when they cross the line, I'm a woman on the warpath! :teehee:

I don't know if anything I said is helpful, but I really feel for you. It's a very hard time for parents. But I also remember what a hard time this is as a teenager too. It's hard for everybody. I send you big hugs and hope things get better soon!!! :hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 08:07 AM
Hey Cookworm...sorry about your son. Trying times...these teenage years can be (do I sound like Yoda??? :teehee: ).

One thing I thought I'd comment about is that in your post, it sounds like you are justifying your decisions (wearing the clothes you wear, talking on the phone) to your children. I have a good friend who has provided a shoulder to cry on at various times. She is outraged at what I've had to deal with. But her biggest thing has always been that we don't have to provide justification for our actions to our children. If we choose to buy something for ourselves, that is our prerogative. If we want to talk on the phone, we don't have to provide our reasoning for it. WE are the adults. She told me to ignore my daughter when she puts me in positions like this. I have, at times, done this -- albeit it's very hard to resist the temptation to say something. It really takes the wind out of their sails when they don't get a response. Kind of hard to argue when no one else is participating.

Thanks for sweet commiserations. Good luck with your ds as well!!

Nobones
04-21-2007, 08:24 AM
I send you all my strength and best wishes. You are doing the right thing, no doubt it will be hard but I'm sure you'll come out the other end :hug:

figaro
04-21-2007, 08:36 AM
I have been reading this thread and I agree with you completly. I don't think this is a decision that you just came up with at the spur of the moment. It sounds like you and your husband have really talked about this, about how to try to get her to understand that her actions and way of speaking to other people have consequences. I applaud you for this, I think too many times we see kids that do not take responsibility for their words or actions. You also acknowledge your responsibility in this and are trying your best to rectify the situation.

I hope that she comes to understand what she is doing/saying hurts other people and one of the signs of maturity is showing respect to others. The next few months will be hard for all but in the long run, I think it will be worth it if she comes to understand it all.

:grphug: :grphug: :grphug:

nadja la claire
04-21-2007, 08:45 AM
Hi Nathalie,

How's it going? It must have been a rough night. I thought about you and your DD last night.

I remember when our youngest son hit puberty, one day he was a sweet gregarious kid, the next he was a surly, smart mouthed, jerk. He became harder and harder to deal with. We did what we could and luckily he didn't get into any serious trouble. At one point he demanded that we stop treating him like a child so we did, we stopped giving him an allowance and we stopped paying for extracurricular activities explaining to him that adults got jobs and paid their own way, I also told him that adults did their own laundry and cleaned their own rooms. I can't remember how long it lasted all I know is that one day all of a sudden he was a nice guy again. He's now married and has a little girl, whose picture is my avatar. It's going to take time (years) but she'll come around.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja xxx

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 10:32 AM
Oh, Nadja, thanks so much. I've got tears in my eyes right now.

Last night was actually okay. Dd pulled out the cookbook and made something for dessert.

This morning has not been great as the reality of the situation is really starting to hit home.

I made her bring me all of her electronics. I instructed that use of the house phone (den only) would be to call us only. She can socialize with her friends at school or at youth group at church.

She made a haircut appointment for this morning, and as I was in the shower, it hit me that this is a luxury...something we told her yesterday would be a no-no. So I canceled the appointment after explaining to her why. Dh is livid. He does not really understand the entirety of this, unfortunately. I am the driving force with his support being an outward show.

Then, dd wanted a new pair of shoes for an academic function this week. After I canceled the appointment, she quickly figured out that she wasn't getting the shoes. She's pretty mad, but I explained that actions cause consequences...good and bad. And they affect every aspect of our lives. So she has to wear cruddy shoes to the ceremony. Unfortunately, she chose this when she spent years berating us. But if you look at it from a life-long learning perspective, if you are disrespectful to your employer and get fired, you don't have the money for shoes and you wear cruddy ones. Life lessons.

Thanks again for the thought. My resolve is firm...boxes of kleenex are stocked under the cabinet. :teehee:

Susan P.
04-21-2007, 10:37 AM
It's a shame your husband is not on the same page as you. I hope he does not show that in front of your daughter as I bet it will wind up causing division if so. Whatever happens he must know I assume that he should not undermine you by caving in to her in secret. :-( All the best for your day.

loveswildflowers
04-21-2007, 11:03 AM
Auburnchick - I so admire your strength and courage. I totally believe you are doing the right thing. Actions speak louder than words. I am sure it is so hard -but your child has berated and tuned you out. It is time for consequences rather than "talk" since she has demonstrated she isn't listening.

Hang in there. We can all tell how much you love her. Hopfully she will begin to feel some remorse and understanding and then you will be able to reach out once again to each other. Hang in there!

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 11:22 AM
:muah: :muah: :muah:

Have I told, you lately that I love you (can't you just hear Rod Stewart???). :teehee:

Trip to the grocery store this morning with dd...disaster. Disobedient and rude as I tried to make $20 stretch. I calmly told her, in the car on the way home, that she would not be going back to the grocery store with me until her attitude had been corrected. Every time we go, we do battle. I also told her that from now on, she will not complain about my purchases and will just have to eat what I buy.

And it's only 10:25am here... :wall:

brendajos
04-21-2007, 11:33 AM
Well I am sure you realize she is just testing your resolve and will be doing it for a while.

When I was a kid my brother had a big feeling that he was in charge in our house so my parents actually let him be in charge for a weekend. He got to decide to do what everybody in the house did. He also got to deal with all of us when we refused to do what he told us to. Apparently he got tired of it because the exercise was supposed to last a week :teehee:



Have you considered making her volunteer for a shelter over the summer or with under-priviledged kids or something like that? Seems like she might do well spending time with people who really do have it rough.



eta: I just had a flashback of my brother doing the grocery shopping that weekend. We had so much freakin' ketchup in our house! :doh:

quiltbugj
04-21-2007, 12:27 PM
We found out while our daughter was in high school that she had hidden her interim report card. She was on the crew team and was to be in a varsity boat as a sophomore. She knew that if we found out we'd pull her from the regata. Well, we finally found out she had hidden it in her bedroom closet - lets just say the grades were below average. We then found out she had "stolen" the atm card to her savings account - which she wasn't allowed to use without permission ( she was 15 at the time.) My husband threatened to drive up to Philadelphia and bring her home. We backed off on that only because the other girls in the boat were seniors and it was their last race and you can't just stick a substitute in.

We did remove the door to her room as well as every piece of decoration off the walls and curtains off the windows. We took away all of her cosmetics and beauty appliances as well as entertainment electronics. We left her five pairs of pants and five tee shirts. We're still "famous" among teachers and parents and it was almost 8 years ago!! She got everything back when she brought up her grades :). We laugh about this now!

letah75
04-21-2007, 12:34 PM
Well I am sure you realize she is just testing your resolve and will be doing it for a while.

When I was a kid my brother had a big feeling that he was in charge in our house so my parents actually let him be in charge for a weekend. He got to decide to do what everybody in the house did. He also got to deal with all of us when we refused to do what he told us to. Apparently he got tired of it because the exercise was supposed to last a week :teehee:

Have you considered making her volunteer for a shelter over the summer or with under-priviledged kids or something like that? Seems like she might do well spending time with people who really do have it rough.

eta: I just had a flashback of my brother doing the grocery shopping that weekend. We had so much freakin' ketchup in our house! :doh:

:roflhard: :roflhard: :roflhard: :roflhard:

I could be a pretty rough to handle child myself. When I was about 4-5 years old, I use to have week long stubborn offs with my mom to see who was going to be in charge. My personality evened out until I was about 16, then it was on. I was never disrespectful to my parents, but I was definately a "handfull". My parents had many ways of dealing with me, and like your daughter I was "basically a good kid".

I thank my parents eveyday for being as stubborn as they were (and are), and for not giving in when the going got tough. If they had I would not be the person I am today, and I'm very happy with the way I've turned out. This is going to be a hard, trying, frustrating, time of little laughter. You will need a strong backbone, and an even stronger resolve. But hang in there. As a child that gave many a headache, I promise you, when she becomes the adult you know she can/should be she will thank you.

At 31 years old, almost everyday I remember somthing that my parents did or said that kept me on the right path. I know it wasn't always/many times easy or fun for them, but they did it because they had to and it was right and good of them to do so.

I will be sending good thoughts, and wishes for strength your way. :hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 12:44 PM
We left her five pairs of pants and five tee shirts. We're still "famous" among teachers and parents and it was almost 8 years ago!! She got everything back when she brought up her grades :). We laugh about this now!

:roflhard:

I LOVE it!

When my dd was in 1st grade, she gave me a very hard time about getting up in the mornings. So finally, after warning of the consequences beforehand, I let her sleep until it was time to go to school. I made her walk to school in her pj's. Since I have always taken my children to school, even back then, I was able to see the reactions of people. People were asking her why she was wearing a costume...if it was pajama day in class...etc. Everyone walked their kids to school, so there were quite a few raised eyebrows too.

I had put a set of regular clothes in her backpack, so I instructed her teacher, who was quite shocked, to let her change before recess.

Let me tell you...I never had a problem getting her up again. :teehee:

Oh, and I really like the idea of making her volunteer somewhere. I will have to look into this.

letah75
04-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Oh, dang you're WWWAAAYYYY nicer than my parents. I had to go to school the whole day in my pajamas. They were awful, long flannel dress pajamas I was in 3rd grade. I didn't even have time to brush my hair (yes it was my fault cause I wouldn't get up), so I had bed head too. And that was before bed head was "fashionable".

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 12:58 PM
Oh, dang you're WWWAAAYYYY nicer than my parents. I had to go to school the whole day in my pajamas. They were awful, long flannel dress pajamas I was in 3rd grade. I didn't even have time to brush my hair (yes it was my fault cause I wouldn't get up), so I had bed head too. And that was before bed head was "fashionable".

:teehee: Poor Letah... :teehee:

My daughter has inherited my thick, naturally-curly hair. I, too, did not let her brush it beforehand. It was frightful... :teehee:

1knittychick
04-21-2007, 01:00 PM
I have a 15 year old son and I fell your pain. My son brings home good grades, has great friends and is not a trouble maker. Normally, he is not disrespectful, but on the days he comes home tired from football--I've learned not to talk to him until he is ready/rested. After a long day of work/school, we all need a break. This works for me and I try not to ask him to help around the house while we are resting. (fight my own battles). Once he's rested, he will help me out without asking. The times he has been disrespectful, he loses his possessions and it works.

As my momma says, he'll hate you; love you; hate you; love you--and then one day, he'll be normal!

CarmenIbanez
04-21-2007, 01:05 PM
I've been thinking about you today. Glad to know you have this warm and supportive place when the going gets tough! :-)

I wanted to say I completely agree with what was said earlier about adult behavior and child behavior. Kids today have a really hard time with the concept that there are just different rules for adults and kids. My son loves being a kid. And he knows that adult life can be hard, so he takes the bad with the good, because real life will be here soon enough! :teehee:

Keep your chin up and your emotions down! You're doing a great job!

bailsmom
04-21-2007, 01:18 PM
Since the bed thing seems to stick out to some- I cannot help recall another parent who also removed the bed- for different reasons but to prove a point. That would be none other then the Cosby Show. Yes! The nortorious parents who we all (I think we can agree) seemed to find punishments that fit the crime.
In this case, Theo didn't know the value of money; so, they created the real world within their home, and he had to earn it all back- you know what the first thing he purchased was- his bed.

I think parents need to address their children as they see fit. I think you sound like a wonderful parent and I agree with Snowbear- do not worry what the others think- I think you'll find the coaches will back you more than anything.
:muah: :hug:

OMG!! I was thinking the same thing last night as I was reading all these posts!! How funny. I was actually flipping through the channels yesterday afternoon and the Cosby show was on, it was an episode where Rudy was a teenager and was acting like a snotty brat and she told Claire that she was going to go to her friends house for dinner and Claire's like, I don't think so. They had a few words and then Rudy walks off in a huff to set the table and on her way out of the kitchen she mumbles something and Claire is like, "Do you have something to say?" But she used a tone that was like I don't think so!! Rudy's like, oh no mom. :teehee: :teehee:

I always thought The Cosby Show was such a great show. The lessons they taught the kids were really good ones.

Too bad life isn't like tv shows. :wall: :wall:

Stay strong Auburnchick, you can do this, we're all here for you :hug: :hug:

iza
04-21-2007, 01:29 PM
I think auburnchick you are doing the right thing. It must be very hard on both of you, but I think it might be a turning point she will remember all her life. She is obviously testing you to see how far you can go, and now well... she knows. :teehee:

I want to say one thing though that might help you getting through it. I think even though it's probably difficult right now, I think what your daughter is doing is, in a way, a good sign. Obviously I'm not saying being disrespectful to her parents is good. But I think she is starving for independence, she's smart, and she just doesn't quite know how to express it. She doesn't quite get what it means to be an adult, but in a way I kind of suspect that she wants to become one and maybe admires the responsibilities you have and would like to do things "her" way. Yes it's important you set the limits and disrepect can not be tolerated. But I think it's a very good sign that your daughter is confident, smart and wants independence. I think if you set a good frame for her to learn what it takes to be a responsible adult, she can become a very successful young women in the years to come. I don't know if I express myself correctly, but hopefully you'll understand what I mean! :muah:

jodstr2
04-21-2007, 01:39 PM
:hug: to all of you parents, it's a constant struggle.
you want them to grow up strong and independent yet they need to follow rules all the time at home. I know, I deal with it every day. sometimes my husband and I have to remind ourselves that no matter what we teach him at home and what he does/doesn't do at home, the second he walks out that door to go to school or wherever, we have no control and we just have to HOPE that he's being a decent person.
just follow through on your promises... at the very least your kids will realize you are people of your words.
:hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 01:49 PM
Too bad life isn't like tv shows.

Yeah, and all of our problems are fixed in 30 minutes. :teehee:

As far as the independence thing goes, yes, I'm confident that she will be able to function on her own as an adult. She has very strong survival skills and is extremely smart. She can take care of herself. At the beginning of the year, when I was driving her to school, we passed a set of townhouses right across the street from my neighborhood. She pointed and said, "Ahhh, I could live in one of those, go to school, etc..." I said, "Yeah, and you can get your own job, buy the food for the fridge, and pay the mortgage." :teehee:

snowbear
04-21-2007, 02:12 PM
Hang in there... go for the long haul. I admire you. Know you have a support system here that will back you. We all have been through it or know of someone who has.

If you ever have doubts... think of this... do you want to look back when you're older, & she is on her own, and regret not doing this? No not you.. You'll make it..


Bear Hugs...

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 02:23 PM
Ok...just overheard dd tell dh she was ready. My ears perk up..."Ready for what?"

Dd: "Oh, Daddy's taking me to get ice cream. I'm paying for it."

Uh, no, I don't think so! :wall: :wall:

nadja la claire
04-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Laying down the law is always hard, on everyone, especially the individual who has to do the enforcing. Just stay strong and be consistent. We're all here for you. :grphug: :grphug: :grphug:

:muah: :hug:

Nadja xxx

snowbear
04-21-2007, 02:35 PM
Have a talk w/ DH... she will try to divide and conquor..


Ok.. can't spell.. but inform him the need for a unified front.

I have an iron skillet handy if you need one... 3 different sizes....


It worked for Johnny Cash... ( June used it on him)


:hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 02:36 PM
Laying down the law is always hard, on everyone, especially the individual who has to do the enforcing.

Yeah, but it's even harder when you've got virtually no "in-home" support. Dh is a @*#!. Sorry...that's a whole nuther story...

:heart: y'all!!

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 04:00 PM
Just thought I would tell y'all that right now, my children are having a board game marathon. I think my ds (who truly is dear, even at 12yo) feels bad for her. He just turned down an offer to get together with his good friend, telling him that he was in the middle of playing board games with his sister. :heart: :heart: :heart:

Hmmm...interesting first day so far...

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 06:04 PM
Just thought I would share the name of a parenting book I've been trying to read (and plan to finish between college terms).

The name of it is Boundaries with Kids by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. This is a fabulous book. It's about teaching kids what boundaries are, how not to cross them, and how to create them for themselves. It comes at you from a Christian approach, but the principles are sound, rational, and just plain old good sense.

I've really got to finish it...lots of wonderful information...as well as convicting information as it forces you to look at yourself and your reasons for reacting to your children the way you do.

mwedzi
04-21-2007, 06:56 PM
What an interesting thread, and full of interesting opinions. I can see all their points. There's only one thing I wanted to say about the parent/child relationship and this mirroring the outside world. I was not like your daughter. My parents would not allow it. I'm just going to say right now that the punishment would have been physical and also removing rewards. I am a naturally . . . meek person, and I think my parents used this completely and it only encouraged them to put more controls on me cuz they knew I would do what they said. It's almost like my being good made them give me less, not more. This was absolutely NOT preparation for the real world; I feel like I can barely function. I didn't learn to speak up for myself, or express my differences of opinion. My natural shyness became exaggerated to great proportions for fear of punishment, always trying to be "respectful." The real world is not so militaristic, and the annoying reality is that generally the <expletive>s get what they want and those being polite and respectful just get run over or ignored. I am actively trying to overcome this part of me, but it is not easy.

Well, I don't know what advice to give, I don't have children, only a bunny. If he looks at me with those giganto bunny eyes when I have a piece of candy, I'll cave and give it to him even when I know it's bad. hmm, prolly shouldn't have kids. :teehee: I just wanted to share my story a little. I know your daughter is not me. But I like the contract thing someone suggested. Do right, get a privilege, do wrong, get one taken away. Something that's logical where the consequence for each action is clear, and not just a sudden from-the-sky taking away of everything. Just my thought. :hug:

losnana
04-21-2007, 06:57 PM
I just want to throw in something from the point of view of the mother of a now-38 year old, formerly atrocious teenager. There IS life after this. DD will eventually appreciate what you've done for her, although it will, most likely, be after she's 18. (I don't know who ever decided that an 18 yo was an adult, anyway. )

My son has said numerous times in the last 10-15 years how sorry he is for the way he behaved, etc.

Hang in there; you're doing the right thing. Hopefully dh will get with the program soon. :muah: :muah:

janelanespaintbrush
04-21-2007, 07:07 PM
Just thought I would tell y'all that right now, my children are having a board game marathon. I think my ds (who truly is dear, even at 12yo) feels bad for her. He just turned down an offer to get together with his good friend, telling him that he was in the middle of playing board games with his sister. :heart: :heart: :heart:

Hmmm...interesting first day so far...

That's so sweet!

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 07:13 PM
Oh goodness, mwedzi! :hug: :hug: :hug: I'm so sorry that you had to go through that!

I, too, was tightly controlled as a teenager, and I really was one of the good kids. My parents even prevented me from going to college. I wound up getting married at the age of 19. I was not taught or allowed to express myself. I was not very confident when I got married. I've slowly changed and am now very confident and assertive.

As a result of my upbringing, I was determined that my parenting would not be a duplication of what I had encountered as a child. My daughter has always been encouraged to speak up for herself, and as a result, she is a pretty confident young lady. That's one reason why this is so hard. Somewhere along the way, she learned that it was okay to cross the line of expressing one's view and respecting others' views.

I'm glad you are working towards more assertiveness. Hang in there!!!

Knitlee
04-21-2007, 07:19 PM
As a middle school teacher, I see the disrespect children have for authority. I have stopped telling my students that I deserve the same respect as their parents since I realized they have no respect for their parents.

My sister-in-law was a terrible teenager. As the youngest of five, my in-laws were well into their 50s when she was coming of age. My in-laws never punished her and she ran the show. This casued much animosity among the sibilings, as she has been able to manipulate her parents into giving her everything. She is now 20 and I still see her taking advantage of my mother-in-law. After my father-in-law's death last year, my husband and brother-in-law found a $1000 charge to Abercombie and Fitch made to my mother-in-law's charge card. My sister-in-law works and still expects her mother to fund her extravagant shopping habit. She is doing better, but there is still a brat that comes out way too often

It is good that you are tryimg to gain control because I have seen what happens if it is left unchecked. I hope your husband realizes that you need to present a united front, or else your daughter will begin to divide and conquer. You may want to seek outside mediation for you, you husband, and your daughter. When my husband and I cannot communicate respectfully, we seek the advice of a counselor.

Good luck and be strong :thumbsup:

mwedzi
04-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Whew, just finished the last 4 pages! Can I say you all on this forum are awesome?! Just cool people. And AuburnChick, I am really hoping you and your children and husband can work through this. Please keep us updated with how it is working out. :hug:

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 08:00 PM
Alicia, I work in a middle school (although I'm not a teacher). I am absolutely appalled at the disrespect shown! And you know, it doesn't only go student to teacher. I've seen many teachers "diss" their students. Yes, these students often do not have parents who are consistently disciplining them (if at all). But somewhere along the way, kids have got to learn to take responsibility for their actions. It can feel so overwhelming at times. One child at a time, though...

Susan P.
04-21-2007, 08:01 PM
Knitlee. I thought that earlier about mediation or counseling. I think I would be calling for that because sometimes these issues roll over into stress on the actual marriage. I mentioned the divide and conquer problematic yesterday as that is very much a concern. There are many Christian counselors out there (NOT talking Church minister or paster as I think it needs to be someone out of usual circle).

saracidaltendencies
04-21-2007, 11:34 PM
Auburnchick,

Just wanted to say I've been thinking about you and hoping things are going well...Or at least as well as they can considering the situation. Stay strong and never forget, you ARE doing the right thing.

auburnchick
04-21-2007, 11:53 PM
Auburnchick,

Just wanted to say I've been thinking about you and hoping things are going well...Or at least as well as they can considering the situation. Stay strong and never forget, you ARE doing the right thing.

Oh, aren't you sweet!!!!! Thanks a bunch!!! Today was up and down, as can be expected, and as will probably be for the next little while.

My son did comment that dd is much nicer without her "amenities." :teehee:

One day at a time...all for the glory of God.

Miss Moosey
04-22-2007, 09:58 AM
When I was growing up, my mom could be pretty tough with me. She was not scared to have me dislike her on account of her punishing me (and it was often a well-deserved punishment! I had major major major temper tantrums until I was about nine.).

One time when I was about six or seven I had a playdate with a friend. However, earlier in the day I had yelled at my mom and stomped my foot. As a result, she made me call up my friend and tell her that I couldn't make the playdate because I was disrespectful to my mother (in those words! Looking back I'll bet my friend had no idea what I meant).

Now I'm 20 years old and I am studying to be a special educator, and I find that I have become just like my mom! I had one particular day that was grueling at work in which every child was tantruming and misbehaving in a major way. As I went through the day and dealt with each child, at times I found I was channeling my mom! I was horrified at first (I'm too young to turn into my mom!), but then I realized it was because, deep in the back of my brain, I knew that what she did worked.

That night I called her up and thanked her for being such a good mom. I believe my exact words were: "Do you know all that stuff you did that I hated when I was younger? Thank you!"

I wish you all the best with your daughter issues. It may be tough, but when she gets older hopefully she'll come to appreciate that what you do is out of love (wait until she has kids of her own; then she'll really appreciate it!).

tarrentella
04-22-2007, 12:22 PM
one thing that hasnt been said and im surprised about, is that she is a teenager and teenagers do this.
The teenager that doesn go through a phase of some bad behaviour, such as drinking,lieing, skipping schhol no respect etc is a rare one.

It happens, and just because it seems bad at the time doesnt meen they will turn into a horrible person in the end. Certainly some action needs to be taken, or they dont learn the lessons of action and consequence, but to much haction, can make a teenager think 'they treat me like im a terrible kid, i may as well asct like a terrible kid' and all of a sudden things go from bad to worse.

I have seen many a time when parents have acted tough and one all sorts of punishments, and after a long stnt of this the teenagers behaviour has changed ... but since it would seem that teenagers behaviour changes after a time anyway, whos to say that a strict punishment was the cause of the change. In these cases the teenager has come out of the bad behaviour naturally, perhaps 'encouraged' by the punishment rather than because of it, and turned into a decent person. the lessons they learnt during the punishment (if you do somthing bad dont expect good things in retrn) may not have been what changed their behaviour in the first place, but they remain lodged in the teenager and are lessons they can carry with them for the restof their life.

By no means am i saying that this meens there is no point in punishing, or giving consequences, but i do think that parents need to keep in mind a 'bigger picture' if you will, and remember that a badly behaved teenager is not an uncommon event, and is somthing that has been going on for centuaries. Certainly a punishment is in order, but don't take her actions personally, and dont think that there is no hope. Just stay strong to the punishment you have put in placed, and ride it out, change takes time.

jodstr2
04-22-2007, 12:25 PM
:hug: hang in there auburnchick :hug: I'm thinking of you...

madametj
04-22-2007, 05:42 PM
i haven't read much of the thread, but y'all sure seem to have a lot to say about teenagers! :shock:

um, all i gotta say is let her have her bed and bedrrom door. take away the lock and even the knob if u must, but please leave the door (a girl's gotta change her clothes in the morning!)

Jan in CA
04-22-2007, 05:56 PM
My brother just sent me this..thought it sort of fitting in this topic. You may not agree with all of it, but it's pretty good.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Gates recently gave a speech at a High School about 11 things they
did not and will not learn in school. He talks about how feel-good,
politically correct teachings created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.

ETA: Incorrectly attributed to Bill Gates, but the ideas are still good. (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm) Thanks, Karen

Rule 1 : Life is not fair - get used to it!

Rule 2 : The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will
expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

Rule 3 : You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You
won't be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.

Rule 4 : If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss!

Rule 5 : Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents
had a different word for burger flipping: they called it opportunity.

Rule 6 : If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine
about your mistakes, learn from them.

Rule 7 : Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation, try
delousing the closet in your own room.

Rule 8 : Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they'll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

Rule 9 : Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off
and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.

Rule 10 : Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have
to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

Rule 11 : Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.
-----------------------------------

Kirochka
04-22-2007, 07:39 PM
Er... except it's not really by Bill Gates...

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm

:wink:

Jan in CA
04-22-2007, 07:55 PM
Er... except it's not really by Bill Gates...

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm

:wink:

:doh: I should have checked there first. :oops: Still pretty good info anyway IMO.

Kirochka
04-22-2007, 08:21 PM
That's also been attributed to Kurt Vonnegut... the Snopes thing does tell where it's really from. And yes, it is good!

Inis
04-23-2007, 12:04 AM
I only had a son, and he was pretty good through his teen years -- but I have to give the credit to my grandmother's EXCELLENT advice. And that was to "nip it in the bud right from the get go".

When my son was about 3 or 4 he threw a fit in the grocery store because I wouldn't allow him to have a sugary cereal. Threw himself on the floor, screamed -- all the embarrassing stuff. I just walked away, ignoring him. By the time I rounded the corner, he realized I wasn't paying attention and gave up the tantrum. He never threw another.

When he was about 6, he refused to clean up his toys before going to bed. It was a rule and a ritual every single night. I didn't argue with him, because I didn't want a fight at bedtime. Put him to bed and then I put all his toys in a box and put them in the garage. The next morning when he wanted his favorite toys, they weren't there. I gave him one back per day. Since that day he has always put his things away.

My grandmother was a wise, wise woman. And to all new parents of younger kids, I'll pass along her advice --- "nip it in the bud from the get go" ;)

If you allow the 2 year old to coerce you into buying that candy bar, the course is set.

Auburnchick, I wish I could offer advice for your situation. :( I hope everything works our with and for your daughter.

Susan P.
04-23-2007, 12:27 AM
Inis. I SO agree with that advice.

CarmenIbanez
04-23-2007, 02:07 AM
Simple, true advice! :thumbsup:

cds11
04-23-2007, 06:42 AM
I'm really glad that I've been reading this thread. I don't have kids yet, but I hope to have some eventually (you know when I get out of university and get a guy and stuff like that) and this has been a great way for me to learn more about the kinds of problems you can have with your children, and how to fight back against these problems... Hopefully when I have my kids, I'll have these ideas in the back of my mind and can use them to raise wonderful children...

My mom did some things right when raising me and my brother (we both would have never dared throw a tantrum in a store, she was actually with my brother once and some other kid threw a tantrum and she told him "you see that boy over there? If you EVER do something like that I WILL leave you behind, understand?" lol.. and he never did...) But she did make some mistakes, at least from how I currently see things, there may be stuff I don't know about yet with regards to how she handled some situations in the past (I was just diagnosed with depression and anxiety almost a month ago, my psychologist thinks I've been dealing with it on my own since I was at least 15 if not earlier, and there was an incident when I was 15 that came to my mom's attention that should have made her take me to counselling, but she just left it) and even how she handles things right now (her: " you want to learn to knit? why??" I figured you know, she'd at least be happy that I'm learning new skills even if she doesn't like knitting in particular..)

Sorry for the huge tangent there... Anyways, this is a great learning thread, and I hope everything works out!

msoebel
04-23-2007, 10:12 AM
I'm sorry...there is just no way I can get caught up on 10 pages this morning. Apparently, this thread struck a nerve!

My dh is a youth pastor, and we work with about 80 teens on a weekly basis. I also have a degree in counseling.

I don't think you are being unreasonable...I think you should leave her bed alone (if you feel you must remove it, leave the boxsprings and mattress in the room on the floor).

My best piece of advice would be to never address your problems with your dd as an "attitude problem". If she is being disrespectful or rude, or if she is mocking you, then address it specifically. Yelling in frustration that you are tired of her "attitude problem" isn't going to make her want to please you. It's going to alienate her.

Even though you have removed everything "fun" in her life, and she IS going to be an absolute pill for a little while (trust me, it WILL get worse before it gets better), make a point of finding something positive to say to her. Teens have a way of making themselves "martyrs". "You don't understand them. You don't like their friends. You are just doing this to be a big meanie. You are RUINING their life!". If you can find just one nice thing to say to her, it will go a long way.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this now...those hormones are something else. They make perfectly normal kids turn into little monsters (I know, because I was one!).

Hang in there...it doesn't last forever, and if you handle this with grace and dignity, your relationship with her will get so much better. It will seem almost overnight.

Misty

auburnchick
04-23-2007, 11:53 AM
Hi y'all. I make it a point to try to stay off of the computer on Sundays, so I had to catch up this morning.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement that you keep sending out.

This weekend was interesting, to say the least. Dd kept asking us to take her to do things/get things. To which my reply was "no" each time.

She did manage to spend quite a bit of time with her brother playing games, and she even stayed in the same room with us to watch TV. I've forbidden her from going into one of the other rooms to watch TV (and she doesn't have one in her room).

We actually had a pretty calm discussion about her consequences this morning. Dh commented later this morning (on the phone...you know...catch up with the morning thing) that he didn't hear yelling this morning. He stays in bed while I get the kids out the door.

Anyhow, I was pretty impressed with how rational my daughter was. I asked her what she thought about everything, and she agreed that not allowing her to spend time with her friends this summer is going to have an impact on her. She pointed out that she was pretty "good" this weekend. I told her that two days is a good start but does not indicate a permanent change. She agreed. :noway: I was kind of surprised but didn't act like it. I did tell her that I appreciated the way we were discussing the issue and the fact that she was not getting defensive.

So, it just proves that she "knows" the expectations. She just has to decide (an act of the will) what she is going to do. She has always been very strong-willed...even as a tot.

So anyhow...just an update. Today should be interesting since she has to face her friends and explain why her cell phone is not working, yada, yada, yada.

auburnchick
04-23-2007, 11:54 AM
um, all i gotta say is let her have her bed and bedrrom door. take away the lock and even the knob if u must, but please leave the door (a girl's gotta change her clothes in the morning!)

Madame, I hope you'll be relieved to know that I let her keep the bed and the door. It seemed like way too much work to remove the door. :teehee:

auburnchick
04-23-2007, 11:57 AM
one thing that hasnt been said and im surprised about, is that she is a teenager and teenagers do this.
The teenager that doesn go through a phase of some bad behaviour, such as drinking,lieing, skipping schhol no respect etc is a rare one.

I will agree that rebellion and disrespect are normal parts of teenager-dom. However, in doing so, teens are trying to discover boundaries. And they are testing them. When they see boundaries not consistently maintained, they begin to figure out that they can't really trust their parents to do what they say.

It's very challenging to figure out how to not over-react and think your child has grown 10 heads. Ultimately, while I know that she is normal, she has to also understand that this "normal" is not acceptable.

Thanks for your interesting points! Lots to ponder...

brendajos
04-23-2007, 11:58 AM
um, all i gotta say is let her have her bed and bedrrom door. take away the lock and even the knob if u must, but please leave the door (a girl's gotta change her clothes in the morning!)

Madame, I hope you'll be relieved to know that I let her keep the bed and the door. It seemed like way too much work to remove the door. :teehee:


my parents took my door off when i was a teenager... it was only for a few days and it didn't reeeeeeeeally have the desired effect.

i was a door slammer as a kid. it was supposed to stop that but all it meant was that i would just go pick a different door to slam...lol

it amuses me to think how rotten i was. i had a temper like nobody's business. i still do but there isn't as much screaming and door slamming as there used to be! ;)

janelanespaintbrush
04-23-2007, 12:13 PM
Anyhow, I was pretty impressed with how rational my daughter was. I asked her what she thought about everything, and she agreed that not allowing her to spend time with her friends this summer is going to have an impact on her. She pointed out that she was pretty "good" this weekend. I told her that two days is a good start but does not indicate a permanent change. She agreed. :noway: I was kind of surprised but didn't act like it. I did tell her that I appreciated the way we were discussing the issue and the fact that she was not getting defensive.

WTG, Mom! That sounds like great progress! :cheering:

Renocat
04-23-2007, 01:38 PM
I don't post much here, lurk mostly, but wanted to jump in.

i am in AWE of your determination and ability to carry this out! :cheering: I have a 16 yo DD who treats me so poorly and expects the world to be delivered at her feet. :!!!: Most of this is my fault. When she was much younger, I was not very strong emotionally and she quickly learned that mommy would rather say yes than fight.

I have tried to regain control over the years but it is hard. I try to stick to my decisions and not let her rule the house. It has gotten easier because I have a wonderful DH who fully supports me.

We did remove the door and her bed at one time. Only for a week but she quickly learned how valuable privacy and comfort are.

Hang tough and I hope you both make it through this... :heart:

Orangeus
04-23-2007, 02:03 PM
I'm still a teenager myself (18 ), but my 'horrible little monster' stage started when I was six, and ended when I was about 14. For me, the reason I was so horrible, was because I was so miserable at school. I started Independant Studies in 10th grade, and it was the best thing for me. Almost instantly I realised how important my mum is to me, and tell her often (I still get thrilled to have a proper breakfast in the morning, since there is no need to hurry up and rush our of the house, after four years, hahha!).

One thing I can say, that hasn't already been, is figure out the root of your daughters hostility. Like I said, mine was public school. Being around so many stupid teenagers for most of the day was making me so unhappy, that I took it out on my mum.

I think seeing a counselor would help determine the root of all this. If you daughter was having horrible allergic reactions to something, you would try and figure out what was causing it, and seek medical help. Something is making her react badly at home, so you need to figure out what it is.


Also, one thing I've observed in friends and peers, is that teenagers can be REALLY good liars. Like the problem with her creating a Myspace account; did you check her history, and cookies every day? Did you refuse to let her use the computer unsupervised? Even though they are doing stupid things online, doesn't mean they don't know how to cover their tracks.

It seems like this happened a while ago though, and isn't a problem anymore, but it still holds for other situations as well. I would just keep it in the back of your mind that her new good behaviour could just be her manipulating you. Chances are she is really getting the message, but you don't want to be blindsided a month from now if something horrible happens.

Wow, that sounds really morbid and depressing. I don't mean it that way, but you never know what her friends are telling her ("oh yeah, my mom did that to me. Just agree with her, and act all sorry and you'll all your stuff back in no time!")


Oh and one side note on the door thing If you are suspicious about what she is doing when the door is closed, then take the door off right now (It's easy, just get a hamer and knock the pins out). If she is just locking her door to to avoid the family or something, swtich out her doorknob with an unlockable one, or remove it fully (always knock first beforing opening it though). Without a computer, phone, or TV though, she shouldn't really be doing anything in her room with the door closed for more than changing clothes... but then again, I've never been able to understand households that have the bedroom doors closed most of the time.


Oh and another side note. DO NOT LET HER MANIPULATE HER FATHER. She is already doing it, and it's working. Put a stop to it now. Get help from a counselor if he won't listen to you. She is already figuring out that playing the 'daddy' card gets her the things she wants, while at the same time breaking your resolve (which just means she can get what she wants easier).


I hope you can figure out what is causing all this problem, and have a healthy family unit once again![/u]

jjminarcik
04-23-2007, 02:33 PM
Auburnchick - I don't have much to contribute, only the fact that I was a teenager and not exactly the best one. I think you are doing the right thing. I'm praying for you and your family that things improve soon and long-term! :muah: :muah: :muah: :muah:

auburnchick
04-23-2007, 02:35 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post, Orangeus!

Let's see...the MySpace thing was a no-brainer. I'm a computer tech, and my dh is in law enforcement. We're very pro-active as far as internet safety. The kids are not allowed to go on the internet in their rooms. They know that if they have friends over, that they have to do all of the AIM/internet things in the other room.

I regularly check the history and cookies. This nearly got her into trouble one time when we thought she had created another one. We figured out with the date stamp that one of her teammates had looked at their account during a soccer tournament.

As far as her manipulating us by "acting" good...oh yes, I'm familiar with this. That's why I've set a minimum for at least the summer with the understanding that it is open-ended and will continue if genuine change is not observed. I do not believe that good behavior comes in a weekend or a month even. It's like eating healthy...it's a hard thing to learn and incorporate into your life.

And I also agree that we need to get to the root of the problem. I do not plan on taking her to a counselor as money is an issue. I'm going to pray that God gives us wisdom and reveals His truth to all of us. I think with all of the time she has on her hands, that we'll be able to work through this. And I've already told her that this is something she's got to be looking for. There may be one or more triggers for her.

Thanks for all of your helpful insights!!!!

Mommy22alyns
04-23-2007, 03:14 PM
Oh boy.... I just get more scared every day of when my girls become pre-teens and teenagers. :oo:

:notworthy: to all of you who have dealt with this and are dealing with it!

auburnchick
04-23-2007, 07:38 PM
And bless those of you who have more than one girl. :teehee:

figaro
04-23-2007, 09:10 PM
I have 3 girls. 5, 4 and 15...and a 20 year old daughter back in CA in college. But my oldest ended up getting along with her father better than I so she basically grew up with him.

Yes, it should be interesting when they get older, but lets hope that is in a good way!

dustinac
04-23-2007, 09:18 PM
my parents took my door off when i was a teenager... it was only for a few days and it didn't reeeeeeeeally have the desired effect.

i was a door slammer as a kid. it was supposed to stop that but all it meant was that i would just go pick a different door to slam...lol

it amuses me to think how rotten i was. i had a temper like nobody's business. i still do but there isn't as much screaming and door slamming as there used to be! ;)

You and Roo are two peas in a pod... I can't *wait* for her teen age years... :roll: I need to meet your mom and have a chat with her...

auburnchick :hug: to you and your family...

robynbird
04-24-2007, 02:44 AM
Wow, I've read this entire thread tonight and I have to say I applaud your determination! I have a DD who is 10, turning 11 next month, and I can tell that her teen years are going to be a challenge.

HamburgKnitter
04-24-2007, 03:10 AM
And bless those of you who have more than one girl. :teehee:

You should have seen the size of the rings under my brother's eyes when he had a son in the middle of the "terrible twos" AND a daughter in the middle of puberty. :teehee: He couldn't have timed that one better!

For all you parents of teenagers, remember, there is a cure! It's called TIME. :cheering: And in the meantime: I salute you.

auburnchick
04-24-2007, 06:03 PM
Ok. So today my dd had a thing at school. I went, and her friends' mom (the one she was supposed to go on the trip with) was sitting close to me.

So I figured that I could quickly try to explain why my dd can't go (she told her friends yesterday at school). And I tried to explain it in such a way that wouldn't betray my daughter and allow her to maintain some dignity. Talk about uncomfortable and awkward. You know how you might tell another parent that "It's okay...you have to do what's best..."

Nada...nothing. Not even an understanding/sympathetic smile. I was mortified. :oops:

Oh well...

I don't think that kids understand that we sometimes get punished right along with them. :verysad:

snowbear
04-24-2007, 06:08 PM
Kinda goes w/ the old saying.. this is going tohurt me worse that you... That is sooo true.


Big bear hugs your way....


P.S. My dd and I haven't talked in about 3 weeks. Due to disrespect. Well I sent her an anniversary gift & card... she sent me a thank you... today. it's a start. no hatred was in it.. it's a begining. It is worth it to do now... don't ever EVER doubt that...

CarmenIbanez
04-24-2007, 06:17 PM
So many parents these days try to make it so that their children never suffer at all. Ever. They are so worried about making their lives "better" than they had. They want their kids to have it all, and never struggle, or eve have a bad day.

I think that a lot of adults don't understand that they are the culmination of all their experiences, good and bad. Therefore, they are denying their children the right to have important experiences, both positive and negative, so they learn about themselves and life.

*sigh* I could go on all day about this. There is such a thing as too protective.

auburnchick
04-24-2007, 06:47 PM
P.S. My dd and I haven't talked in about 3 weeks. Due to disrespect. Well I sent her an anniversary gift & card... she sent me a thank you... today. it's a start. no hatred was in it.. it's a begining. It is worth it to do now... don't ever EVER doubt that...

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I hope y'all get it figured out too!!! Lots of ups and downs...

:muah:

samm
04-24-2007, 07:30 PM
Wow! Do I ever believe what Carmen wrote! I'm watching my neighbour, a child therapist, raise her children to be "always happy". And all I see happening is a child with no real friends, one who is becoming hypochondriacal, and wanting parents to call and complain about every little thing at school. She won't eat most foods, and hasn't responsibilities in the home. Laziest kid I ever met!!! I could go on..... samm who believes that children should be respected, responsible (even if they don't wanna be), and loved (even when they are hard to even like!) I prolly believe more things too. Getting off my soapbox now. :heart:

robynbird
04-25-2007, 01:16 AM
And bless those of you who have more than one girl. :teehee: My parents had FIVE girls! Talk about insane!

humblestumble
04-25-2007, 02:09 AM
I recommend reading "The Five Love Languages of Children" By Dr Gary Chapman. I just read "The Five Love Languages" (for married couples - I am not married but always willing to improve relationship). There was a chapter on Children in the one I read, so I am betting that the book on Children is just as good.

ETA: I forgot to mention that it's written by a Christian counselor (I am not Christian, but he's an awesome counselor), So in the book I read there were quotes from the bible.

I would not go as drastic as you are wanting to go. I was a teenager not long ago. I admit, I have always been pretty cool with my parents, but that is just too much to take away. You will end up having a child who is confused and will resent you even more, not respect you. If anything, will be afraid of you which is not what any parent should want.

IMHO, I think you guys should get counseling, or at least really sit down and communicate with your daughter, however hard that is. Sounds to me like all that bad mouthing is a crying out. She's obviously unhappy with you. And you need to figure out why. All the things she says probably are not true. There is probably something way deeper than what she says which is actually bothering her a great deal.

In the book I just read, people ended up resenting each other because the love languages are different and people need to learn how to love each other the way they feel loved. Like, I like quality time and my boyfriend like's physical touch. So I need to learn to hug my boyfriend more often and pet his hair, and he needs to learn to spend more time eye to eye with me. The same goes for kids and parents. There IS a way to reverse this behavior without going through such drastic measures.

The way I see it, what you are considering doing is a lash out to her that has been building up over the years that you haven't dealt with, and now it's just the last straw. Rather than doing that, calm down and find alternatives. Sure you can take a few things away, but not EVERYTHING. That will definitely make things worse.

Now that I've given my two cents, I will read to see if you've done anything yet. Sorry that I didn't do that before.

HeatherFeather
04-25-2007, 03:55 AM
Josh 1:9 is how I'm getting through life with my teen!!!!!!!!! And any other curve balls.

I got some great advise...YOU are the best parent for THAT child. God did that on purpose!!!!!!!!! I can't parent another kid like I can mine..as I know what makes mine tick.

Kevin Lehman is another AWSOME guy for parenting advise. We took a video course "riding the rapids" or something like that. And he said that the ONLY thing you owe kids is a roof and a bed. Cuz we all know they HAVE to eat and we aren't letting them walk around nekid.

I've not read the whole thread, but I want to tell you, that even if people don't approve with what you are doing...YOU are still the parent, and what you say goes!!!

I'm sorry that the mom didn't visually support you, but HER problem. :)

I also second the 5 Love Languages...it made me understand people in SO many different levels!!!

auburnchick
04-25-2007, 11:47 AM
I really felt like I needed to address some points you brought up...

I would not go as drastic as you are wanting to go. I was a teenager not long ago. I admit, I have always been pretty cool with my parents, but that is just too much to take away. You will end up having a child who is confused and will resent you even more, not respect you.

You know...she already is disrespectful. It's truly not going to be any worse. And right now, I don't care if she resents me. No teenager likes consequences, just as a person convicted of a crime usually claims that they were "innocent" and blames the "system."

She needed a shock to wake up to the fact that our choices in life have consequences. Period. You can't sugar coat that fact. And it will be much better for her to learn it in an environment where she is loved rather than when she gets older and the bottom line is a paycheck and employers who really don't care a rip for you.

Sounds to me like all that bad mouthing is a crying out. She's obviously unhappy with you.

Sure she's crying out. She's p-o'd that she's not getting what she wants. And it's not because she hasn't been given. Sure, we don't make lots of $$ and can't give her everything that she wants, but I don't think I would do that if I were financially able to. She bad mouths because she is unhappy with herself and that's how she makes herself feel better...by putting me down. And I've taken enough. It's plain-old-wrong.

Now, I will agree that there are probably some underlying issues as well. By removing the extra stimuli in her life, I'm hoping that she will start to focus on her heart and what's going on in there. The Bible states that, "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." I know that some of her outbursts stem from her heart. A lot of is a lack of self-control. So we do have to address this. And we are doing this in our conversations.

The way I see it, what you are considering doing is a lash out to her that has been building up over the years that you haven't dealt with, and now it's just the last straw. Rather than doing that, calm down and find alternatives. Sure you can take a few things away, but not EVERYTHING. That will definitely make things worse.

You know, some people may see this as lashing out. But it's not. I've stated in previous postings the various things we have done and gone through. I don't have any malice or anger about the things she's said and done. I do have expectations, however. And they aren't unreasonable. This was not the "last straw," so to speak. It's been building and building for many years. We finally decided to map out a plan and stay on course until we reach the destination.

I encourage you to go back through the posts. You'll see the process I've gone through and then, perhaps, will understand all of a little better.

This isn't a mom on the war path. It's a genuine attempt to love my daughter and raise her to be a responsible, God-fearing woman who can function properly in this world.

RachelJean
04-25-2007, 12:40 PM
I can definitely relate. I am a mom of 2 daughters. My oldest just turned 13, and she alternates between being her sweet considerate self, and some stranger with a lousy attitude and a fresh mouth. It is often really difficult to do what's right because that makes you unpopular with your kids. I wish you lots of luck with your challenges. Hopefully some day your daughter will appreciate it. :hug:

auburnchick
04-25-2007, 12:58 PM
It is often really difficult to do what's right because that makes you unpopular with your kids.

As well as making you unpopular with other parents. That's okay. I'm used to people thinking I'm a little "off." :teehee:

Stonington
04-25-2007, 01:07 PM
Dear Auburnchick... my thoughts are so with you. My daughter went from being a high honors student--honor society, involved in every group/committee to having her boyfriend "borrow" her car to try and rob a liqure store and not coming home at night. Sometimes we have to make tough choices to protect our kids and prepare them for the "real" world. My daughter ended up being moved out of her hometown her senior year in highschool to live at her grandmother's--we needed her safe, but it was the toughest thing I ever had to do as a single mum. Lots of tears and a few years later we were able reach out to each other again. She now is married, a mum and I think understands the decisions that I made (maybe more so now that she has babies of her own). So many many hugs :hug: :hug: :hug: to you.

anne

auburnchick
04-25-2007, 01:22 PM
Wow! Why do we choose the hard path???

larudden
04-25-2007, 01:28 PM
PHEW! I think my hand is numb from scrolling down all 12 PAGES of this thread!

Oh sister, I definitely feel your pain. I've got 3 daughters and, when my youngest (21 now) was 17 and 6 months old, I invited her to fly to Las Vegas with my husband and me (she was living w/her dad). I told her the only way her dad would allow her to go is if we drove to this prep school and took a tour.

Well, the "prep school" was 2 hours from Vegas in Utah and she stayed there. I can still remember the look on her face and the gasp of horror when she realized that she was being placed in a residential program that was very far away from her Florida home.

Alli was there for 7 1/2 months, and it was very very hard at times. I got to see her 3 separate time for a parent's weekend and, as time went by, Alli started understanding why her behavior was bad. She was hanging out with the lowest of the low in order to make herself feel good. Her BF was the biggest crack dealer in the next town and I thank God that she didn't start THAT. However, one of the counselors at the school said something that sticks in my head to this day: "If you hang around the barber shop long enough, you're gonna get your hair cut!"

Alli is 21 now and some things still haven't changed. In fact, I just broke the lease on her apartment where she goes to school because of her behavior and her inability to do what she says. She's really good at manipulating (her dad was a great teacher) and now, for real, she's going to pay by not having a place to live. I've invited her to moved to Orlando from Tallahassee and live w/my dh and me, but "I can't leave Ian!" she says. Well, then I guess Ian will take care of her, huh?

I know that, in many ways, I did this to her by always "fixing" everything in her life (long story w/lots of my own baggage attached) and taking care of my girls too well.

I support what you are doing and hope that your dd's attitude changes. Just be aware though that there's always the chance, like w/Alli, that this'll all start over again in a few years.

I would recommend talking with someone, even if you go alone. I don't know what I'd do if I hadn't had an objective professional to help get me through. There are all kinds of programs out there as well if $$ is an issue. Take advantage of them.

Stay tough - don't cave in - and tell DH is KNOCK IT OFF! :)

Blessings,
Leslie

AnreeAce
04-25-2007, 01:35 PM
First things first: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Many people have told you this already, but you're doing the right thing!

I was always close to my mom, but I also did my fair share of pushing her boundaries when I was a teen. She never flinched and she never backed down. I always knew what the consequences would be.

Like the time I missed curfew because I got a flat tire on my bike. She came and picked me up, but I was still grounded because I hadn't gotten home on time. After that I got much better at using my patch kit!

Stand strong. You obviously understand that you're in for a long haul. We're all here for you. :muah:

Cherinec5
04-25-2007, 02:11 PM
First of all I want to say that i agree with what you are doing 100%. You have to do what you can to make her a better person. Everyone has heard the phrase " treat others how you want to be treated". I dont think anyone wants to be treated with disrespect. I think that in the long run, your attitude and respect for yourself and others defines who you really are. No one wants to hire someone who is not going to respect them or their employees and business. Same goes with her soccer. respect is imporant with your coach, team mates referees, etc. If she doesn't learn to be respectful now, it sure as heck wont come easy later on.
Have you tried talking to her coach?? maybe he/she can let her know that respect is important, especially if you are to be captain.
I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter so i'm not quite at the teenage years but boy does she have an attitude problem lol. and stubborness live i've never seen before!
You're in my thoughts and prayers and I do with you the best of luck!

auburnchick
04-25-2007, 02:30 PM
You know, I am still amazed at how much interest this thread has generated. It seems that if we didn't go through something similar, by being the instigator, then we're going through it as the parent.

Leslie, my heart goes out to you. I know what you did when your daughter was 17 must have been one of the hardest things you've ever done. Your daughter must have been SHOCKED. It sounds like she's going through a wild phase right now. I'm sure she's going to come back to those lessons taught (noticed I didn't say "learned") years ago.

I have to trust the Lord with my dd's future. I take solace in the verse, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." I may do all of this and she still rob a bank when she's older. But the lessons will be imprinted on her heart, and she won't be able to completely erase them. Faith...

AnreeAce, wow, your mom was TOUGH! I think I would cut my child some slack for a flat tire, but it's good that you learned a lesson from that. I love that!!!

Cherinec5, you know, we've considered talking to her coach. It's kind of a weird time right now, though. She hasn't been attending practices because she is in physical therapy to rehab her knee. Her team will be going through some transition as well. It looks like her current coach won't be coaching the team next year either (and he's the most fabulous coach she's ever had). She'll probably be on a different team, so it's really pointless to talk to him. But we came very close to bringing him in when she did the MySpace thing last year. He does not tolerate stuff like that.

Anyhow, thanks again, y'all! You are Terrific, with a capital "T"!!!!!

snowbear
04-25-2007, 02:35 PM
Hang tough... You are doing the right thing.. it isn't easy.. doing the right thing rarely is.. but know you are doing what she needs...

Snowbear

p.s. you made the hardest step... now know we're still here for you!

AnreeAce
04-25-2007, 03:13 PM
AnreeAce, wow, your mom was TOUGH! I think I would cut my child some slack for a flat tire, but it's good that you learned a lesson from that. I love that!!!

It was just for a couple of days, no biggie.

One of the lessons I had to learn was about money and how it doesn't just happen. Before my parents divorced I would get a whole new wardrobe every fall. I was so mad when I didn't get to go school shopping, I was convinced Mom was just being mean.

So, she sat me down at the table and taught me how to balance a checkbook. Her checkbook. I was absolutely blown away when I realized that for ten days at the end of the month there had been about $5 in the bank. I stopped nagging her for new clothes after that, and started picking up babysitting jobs.

There were plenty of times when we got angry with each other, I couldn't possibly have been the sweet and understanding teen I thought I was (:angelgrin:). But there hasn't been a day in the past twenty years when I haven't used the lessons she taught me. And I try to make sure she knows it.

Good luck to you, you and your family will be in my heart. :heart:

Abbily
04-25-2007, 03:25 PM
Wow, this thread has been very interesting (and a little terrifying since I have two daughters!)

HUGS to all of you dealing with teenagers right now... I have a few years yet, but one thing from this thread has really resonated with me. It's so true that if we 'fix' everything for our children, they will never learn to do it for themselves. It's hard sometimes to let them fend for themselves, but I think in a lot of cases, we have to.

Anyway, I wish you peace with your daughter!!

ChroniclesofYarnia
04-25-2007, 04:32 PM
I have two little girls, and this thread has scared the crap out of me! Bless you for taking care of business while you can.

I was a door slammer when I was a teen, and I remember my dad taking away my door. I stopped slamming doors. Funnily enough, my 6 year old was a door slammer until recently. I got the idea from a creative friend, but whenever she slammed the door she had to come back and close it properly 30 times. Counting out loud, and if I didn't hear her it didn't count. After an hour of that a month ago, I haven't heard a door slam yet. (I even heard her yell at her sister one day, "don't slam it!". hee)

auburnchick
04-25-2007, 06:01 PM
I have two little girls, and this thread has scared the crap out of me!

:teehee:

I am so sorry! I certainly don't mean to scare anyone!!!

I love your solution to the door slamming! Very creative!!

humblestumble
04-25-2007, 11:59 PM
I went back and read what you have done. I just felt that at that time I had to respond before reading everything. Rest assured, I did not mean to point fingers or criticize your parenting, if that's how it came across. It was late and I think I am PMSing. I probably would have done things differently in your shoes, but no two people are alike and every family will be different in disciplining techniques and who knows if mine would work on your daughter. You know what is best for her.

You love your daughter, and you are doing the best you can for everyone's benefit. I hope that she does turn around soon and treat you with love and kindness rather than bitterness. There was a point in my life when I first hit puberty that I snapped at my mom and made her cry almost everyday just because she annoyed me. Looking back on that, I feel horrible about it, and I hope that your daughter comes to that understanding about what she's done to you recently for the past few years.

Perhaps you can do some things to bond with her? A little at a time?

auburnchick
04-26-2007, 12:33 AM
Angela, no problem. :muah: Everyone has their opinions, and it's good that we can share them. Gets the noggin working...

I try to bond as much as I can. She's resisting...typical teen...

nadja la claire
04-26-2007, 08:39 AM
I'm glad this thread is still going. My best knitting friend is having the same problem with her DD. I told her about you and she just let loose about her DD. Her DD just turned 16 and she treats my friend like a servant. She treats both of her parents like dog dirt on the bottom of her shoe.

My friend told me about a time when her DD invited a group of her friends to meet up at the food court at the mall and told them that she would supply the food. She then got her mother to take her there, not telling her that she had invited her friends. When they got to the food court she told her mother that "they" were supplying the food. :noway: So my friend, who can hardly afford to buy food and drinks for a bunch of teenagers, angry as she was, actually bought the food because she didn't want her DD to be embarrassed. When she told me this story I felt so bad for her but at the same time I knew that her DD would never had done something like this if she didn't know her mother would acquiesce. I just said "You've have to stop bailing her out. Next time let her look bad, then she won't do it again." She said that she doesn't want to bail her out all the time but if she doesn't her DD is impossible. I gave her a hug and said that it's her and her DH's responsibility to prepare her DD to take care of herself not to be taken care of and that she will never become a competent adult if they just keep giving into her. I don't know I've only raised boys, and maybe it's different but I know how I was raised and my parents would never have put up with the kind of stuff my friend puts up with. I know my mom would have said you're the one who promised them food so you'll be the one to supply it and I would have said the same thing.

Right now my friend is planning a "Sweet" 16 party. They're renting a hall because her DD has invited 60 to 70 people but it could be more, it could be less, my friend doesn't really know how many are actually coming because her DD didn't ask for RSVPs "So what's the problem? Just plan for 60 to 70 people." was her response. I'm going to help my friend with the food and the setup because I've had catering experience and I want to help with what ever I can, but that girl doesn't deserve it.

I don't know how to help my friend. Her child is not my responsibility but I hate to see my buddy so upset. The girl walks all over her parents, especially my friend, and for the most part she gets away with it. It makes me so mad :grrr: :!!!: I'd like to talk to her but I feel like it's not my place and I don't want my friend to be mad at me.

I sound like a cranky old woman complaining about those whipper-snappers. Maybe I'm being too hard on the girl, she young and stupid. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja xxx

iza
04-26-2007, 09:12 AM
Maybe I'm being too hard on the girl, she young and stupid. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.

What you are saying is very important. They can be stupid sometimes at that age. And honestly, if I remember how I was, I don't think I was conscious about what I was doing to my mom. I wasn't extremely disrespectful to her but it did happen sometimes.

I think children at that age don't have the same empathy level we adults do. They are very self-centered (or centered around their friends). Of course it's the parents' job to try to develop their sense of responsibility. But I don't think it's all their fault, in a way. I think they just don't get it. It's a bit like learning to read or write, it's difficult and requires a lot of efforts.

The only way to achieve it is for them to face the consequences of their actions. And this is what you are doing now, auburnchick. :teehee: :notworthy:

Abbily
04-26-2007, 09:22 AM
Maybe we should have a parenting blog thread here at KH! I've gotten some great ideas from you guys (LOVE the door slamming solution!) and I think it would be great to keep the discussion going.

SandraEllen
04-26-2007, 09:27 AM
I've been keeping track of this thread since it started...

I just have one thing to add. I think that our society as a whole fails to teach kids to respect other people We're all too concerned about what other people think and about other people interfering with our business to realize it.

it's a "what's best for me" society and kids have embraced that.

Please understand that I'm not pointing fingers at ANYONE... I just have seen so many young kids smack their parents (or other adults) or yell at them without seeing any repercussions for it.

auburnchick, I hope everything works out. :pray: Please keep us updated![/u]

dakatzmeow
04-26-2007, 10:00 AM
i'm quaking at the knees. i have 4yo and 6yo girls. :doh: one thing i am trying to work on already, is laying the groundwork for respect. i have both of them in tae kwon do, and have spoken with the instructor about the fact that the girls don't have a male role model at home and that i am hoping their work in his school will help lay the groundwork for respect. hopefully they will stay involved with this.

just this morning, both of them did something separately, and jumped up, saying "yes ma'am" just like they do in TDK. :heart: i praised them soundly!

auburnchick, keep up the good work. i'd love to keep up with your updates and pat you on the back. :cheering:

eta: i think you are doing a fantastic job.

auburnchick
04-26-2007, 10:21 AM
Nadja, wow! My heart was saddened as I read the account of your friend. Please tell her, when you get a chance, that I'll be praying for her. She should really take a look at this thread too. I think it's important to receive encouragement from other parents. That makes us strong enough to do what we need to do...especially when it goes against cultural norms. In fact, that's what really got me going last week. I work with a guy who comes once a week to fix the computer problems that are beyond me. He was a pretty strict disciplinarian with his own girls, and he is a Christian, so I highly respect him. As we talked, I just felt like I really had to take steps. His encouragement led to all of this.


Anyhow...getting back to your friend...

But you know, the first thing your friend is going to have to do is acknowledge that she and her dh are allowing this behavior to continue. When they acknowledge their role, they can begin to take steps to rectify it.

Your friend needs a shot of courage to take a firm stand against her daughter. It's so hard because kids can make our lives miserable. We want them to like us, and when they don't, we take it personally.

Hey Sandra...I totally agree with your comments about society. We live in a world of instant gratification...fast food, express check-out lines, etc. Kids aren't being taught how to wait for things anymore. They ask and expect immediate results.

One thing my kids know is that if they want something, they have to either save up their money (I could go on and on about teaching them financial responsibility...which I'm doing right, I think), or they have to ask for it for Christmas or their birthdays, whichever comes first. If it's something they really need, sure we'll get it for them, but "extras" do not get purchased. Money is tight. So, they have learned how to be responsible in that way.

My dd wanted to get a puppy for her birthday. I'm sure y'all remember my posting about that. After getting the okay from my dh, she used her own money to adopt the puppy and bought most of his start-up supplies. She also bathes him, feeds him, and cleans up his messes.

Sorry to go on...it's just another part of parenting that we can't let up on.

Oh, hey dakatzmeow, Wow! I applaud your girls! You have them involved in a wonderful discipline. I have often heard that kids involved in the martial arts develop a great sense of respect. That is so AWESOME!

Last night, I had to get tough with my kids again. We eagerly sat down to watch Lost, and I told my son to do something. He yelled at me, and I warned him. Dd looks over and says, "Oh, you know Mama...she's just being mean again."

I immediately sent both of them to bed without allowing them to watch the show. I told them that I do not have to listen to their disrespect. They were really ticked. Especially since they knew I was sitting in the other room enjoying the show without them.

I told my son that he better watch out. I'm learning from my dd, and I won't let him get away with disrespect either. He's a fast learner, so I don't anticipate a huge problem.

janelanespaintbrush
04-26-2007, 10:31 AM
You know, I read a really interesting article few years back about adolescent brain development. Couldn't find it, but did come across this (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/). I haven't had time to review it yet, but it seems to cover the same ground. I'm sure that culture and individual differences play a significant role in teen behavior beyond what's going on in their noggins, but the brain research is pretty insightful.

As an aside, I just remembered something a friend of my Mom's told me when I came home for break after my first semester of college -- my Mom was very pleased when I "sort of talked back" to her about something! :teehee: She had apparently been very concerned that I never acted out in high school. :shrug:

auburnchick
04-26-2007, 10:43 AM
Jane,

That site is interesting.

Here's something I pulled from the introduction:

"Despite all the new scientific research, "Inside the Teenage Brain" suggests that there is a consensus among experts that the most beneficial thing for teenagers is good relationships with their parents. Even Dr. Giedd wonders about the kinds of lessons parents can draw from his science. "The more technical and more advanced the science becomes, often the more it leads us back to some very basic tenets. ... With all the science and with all the advances, the best advice we can give is things that our grandmother could have told us generations ago: to spend loving, quality time with our children."

"Ellen Galinsky, a social scientist and the president of the Families and Work Institute, has seen scientific fads come and go. But she says her research for a book about children shows there are enduring lessons for parents. Drawing on her interviews with more than a thousand children, she found that, to her surprise, teens were yearning for more time and more communication with their parents, even when they seemed to be pushing them away. She told FRONTLINE, "Even though the public perception is about building bigger and better brains, what the research shows is that it's the relationships, it's the connections, it's the people in children's lives who make the biggest difference."

Hey, btw, I'm majoring in social science. I find the 2nd paragraph, by a social scientist, interesting!!

birdwomn
04-26-2007, 07:01 PM
I hope things are getting better at your house by now, but I do know it is tough.

My daughter is now 21 and graduating from college next week. We are very close and talk almost every day, sometimes more than once. I never thought she would be one of my best friends! :happydance:
That said, she was very difficult at times during her "tween" & teen years. My son is 18 and in a very "difficult" phase, but I have hope for the future

1) try to remember that the reason they put you down, talk ugly, and are uncooperative is because they are preparing to be on thier own - they are really frightened about the world and want your help, they are just afraid to ask
2) 18 year olds know EVERYTHING...just as them! :teehee:
3) I have found it is easier to stick to the consequences if they are focused on something being accomplished, rather than "for the summer" or "for a month". "Until your room is clean" or "until your grades improve", etc work better
4) Respect is earned - while your child should treat ou with respect simply because you are her mother, that doesn't tend to happen as much as when you show them that you can be supportive - even through all the BS
5) Be very careful about getting into a power struggle....they will win every time in the long run

Good luck! Obviously, we can relate! :hug:

auburnchick
04-26-2007, 07:55 PM
5) Be very careful about getting into a power struggle....they will win every time in the long run

Errrrr...you don't know how stubborn I can be IRL. :teehee:

But you're right...it's not about being a power struggle.

Arielluria
04-26-2007, 08:03 PM
Auburnchick, I don't have kids, but I've been an teenager with attitude, and I can see people going wrong by NOT disciplining their kids. Also, I had a niece which sounds much like what you wrote. A kid in a good Christian family but she just got really bad around 15......

Anyway, I'll be praying for you & your daughter.

Also, 20 years later I'm a fairly well-adjusted (if addicted knitter)......and my mother is my best friend. She's going to move with us soon, hopefully - and I cannot wait!

:heart:

SandraEllen
05-18-2007, 08:14 AM
Well, it's almost been a month. How are things going?

auburnchick
05-18-2007, 08:26 AM
Hmmm...

Honestly, her attitude, in many ways, is still the same. Although we don't have the added "stress" of too many activities, since we've curtailed nearly everything, she's still extremely rude in other areas. I'm trying to address areas as instances occur. For example, when she reacts outrageously to something, I'll stop her and explain that this is the behavior that we are trying to correct. I'll then explain a better alternative, explaining that I am not an unreasonable person, and that calmly talking to me is the best way to address whatever opinion she has.

She will be having a long summer without any get-togethers. I saw a couple of her friends' moms at various school functions (academic awards, etc.). They were like, "Oh, we'll have to get the girls together this summer..." I have to explain, basically, what's going on. I'm getting mixed reactions, but it doesn't matter. The problem is that my dd is so nice to other parents that they don't see her the way I do.

BUT, I will say that all of her free time has freed her up to start cooking. She is really pitching in at home with the chores too. She is very interested in planning our meals. She's been helping my dh grocery shop (a big help since I go to school too). She probably cooks dinner more often than I do.

I recently made a chore list for my kids so that I won't have to nag them. It's a list of what's expected daily and weekly. It has boxes for them to check of who does what. I'm leaving it up to them to work out who washes/dries/sweeps...etc.

This has led to revelation of more areas to work on. Her interpersonal skills leave much to be desired.

So, on it goes.

Thanks to those of you who haven't forgotten my struggles. I really appreciate the encouraging PMs you've been sending me.

:muah::hug::muah::hug:

Miss Moosey
05-18-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm glad that things have improved somewhat, and that your daughter has found a hobby that she really enjoys.

It is good that you don't let any rudeness slip by without comment (I used to be a constant eye roller until my mom stopped letting me get away with it!). However, don't forget to catch her being good, even if you compliment just the tiniest improvement!

I hope that everything will continue to get better, little by little.

Rebecca

jodstr2
05-18-2007, 09:47 AM
good luck Nathalie. sounds like things are improving. hang in there girl, I know it's tough. :hug::heart:

bailsmom
05-18-2007, 10:30 AM
I do think about you quite a bit during the week. I'm still praying for you and your family. You are doing the right thing.

(I just want to keep saying that for your sanity. :teehee: )

I wish you all the best :hug:

snowbear
05-18-2007, 11:36 AM
It takes time... Rome wasn't built in a day... By being steadfast she will eventually get the message.

There is an old adatage that says treat your family as guests,, your guests as family... I catch myself sometimes not doing this. I treasure my family( daughter & her family) more than life... but there are times when I'm tired, and just don't always go the extra mile. While family should overlook things like that... we should not expect them too.

When teenagers realize they do not know it all.. ( it takes some of them quite a while to realize this..) and that they do need others... usually they start to be the people we like, and want to have around.

Our culture is changing, and that is also hard on raising children. It is hard to take a stand and put one's foot down w/ our children. But those that do, will reap huge rewards.

Big hugs to you.. don't ever doubt that at the end of this journey you will be rewarded..:hug:

Nobones
05-18-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm really pleased to here you are sticking to your guns. I'm sorry other Mums haven't been very supportive. I bet they would be if it was their Dds.

Hang in there, and keep us updated.

KnittingNat
05-18-2007, 12:30 PM
I'm sure that even if your DD doesn't understand why you are so strickt, she'll appreciate it when she'll get older and have her own family.. Hang in there and don't mind those other moms, maybe they just envy you for your ability to say "Enough!" when they can't.
:hug::hug::hug:

Kaydee
05-18-2007, 01:31 PM
Its great that you're sticking to your plan, it'll show dd that you're very serious about making changes. Its great that she has been helping more around the house. Even though the attitude hasn't changed, I'm sure after a looooong summer of not being able to do the fun things she wants she will slowly realize she needs to make a change. I had a pretty bad attitude with my parents for a few of the teen years but just like your dd I was so sweet to others that they wouldn't even know. Things got much better after I graduated high school (probably not what you want to hear). I definitley regret that I acted like this. Just know that things will eventually get better...it may take time but it will happen. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.:hug:

G J
05-18-2007, 01:41 PM
Blessings on YOU as you deal with this very difficult issue!:heart::hug::heart:

It sounds like you're on the right track toward change.

BinkyKat
05-18-2007, 08:11 PM
I've peeked in on this thread from time to time and I have to give you big credit for doing what you are doing. I was a pretty mild mannered kid and really kind of wishy washy in a lot of ways to this day. My parents were not overly strict, but we would never dream of being disrespectful. There were many times I wish they would have allowed us to have a bad day. What breaks my heart is how your dd should never berate you for the clothes you wear or how you talk or anything like that. I have too many friends that seem to think they have to be their kids' buddies and they need to be parents first, and friends later on when the kids are mature enough to handle it (not saying that you are this way) My friends are basically being they way their parents weren't and that has backfired in almost all cases. I don't expect to be called "Mrs. Hay" by my friends kids, but in my day (even tho I'm only 38 ), we got the evil eye if we were rude to our parents or interrupted them. I am sad that respect for other's is nearly impossible to teach but disrespect is picked up automatically by kids these days. You have every right to expect, demand, and receive your daughter's respect. Kudos to you and your dh for trying to get this situation under control. She will reap what she sows because life will treat her pretty badly if her attitude doesn't change. I know people who feel the wrongs in their adult lives are everyone else's fault when it really is because they don't respect those they depend on and take everything for granted without consequences.
Keep on keepin on!!!:heart::hug::heart:

KnitClickChick
05-19-2007, 08:00 AM
I don't have kids so I can't offer advice, only support. I and my siblings were all pretty good kids. There was never any fighting with my parents or anything like you are going through. I was terrified to sass my mother -- stuff like that just was not acceptable. The rules were the rules, and what mom and dad said was a must, even if we didn't like it. Not that we were treated badly, but we knew what was right and what was wrong. I was always very close to my mom, we have always been more like best friends than mother/daughter. I was never that close with my dad, but I would never dream of disrespecting either of them. I know they both sacrificed a lot of their own wants and needs so us kids could have what we wanted. We didn't have everything, but we knew mom and dad loved us and only wanted what was best for us. It seems that kids today have everything they want, when they want it. Cell phones, Ipod, computers.... and they don't seem to care about any of it. I have seen children in public with their parents being totally disrespectful and I think it is awful. So I applaud you for letting your dd know there are consequences for bad behavior. Stick to your guns -- I think she will learn to appreciate YOU and what she has. I think it will make life better for her later in life. I would let her keep her bed though. :thumbsup:

auburnchick
05-19-2007, 07:05 PM
Today was a pretty good day. I had to go shopping to buy some new clothes for a new summer job I start on Wednesday. It's at a law firm, so I am in desperate need of nice clothes.

Dd went with me first thing this morning, and we spent a good four hours out and about. She was very patient and supportive throughout the day. AND, she didn't get anything but a toothbrush and a new bra. So, for her to be nice and not really get anything...THAT was a shock!

I told her how much I appreciated her behavior and that it did not go unnoticed.

So, just thought I would share...

BinkyKat
05-19-2007, 07:27 PM
:cheering::cheering::cheering::cheering::cheering:
Thank goodness for everyday successes!:muah:

snowbear
05-19-2007, 08:08 PM
:cheering::happydancing::thumbsup::hug::heart:

Congrats!!! that is awesome. I'm soo happy for you. That is great.

Baby steps.. will become giant leaps!

I know you will be rewarded from above.. and here on earth. You are an inspiration to many!


Big Bear Hugs!

Nobones
05-20-2007, 06:25 AM
Maybe that could be a regular thing for you and dd to do together. At the end of your trip sit down in a coffee bar, and tell her how nice it is that you can do this, how nice her behaviour was today.

I was wondering do you knit together? If not, how about it? Go out together, pick the patterns together along with yarn and have your very own mini knitting club. You could say when behaviour gets better she can ask 1 friend to join in. Maybe insentives like that could speed the process up.

Just a thought, your doing really well.

jodstr2
05-20-2007, 11:52 AM
:hug:glad that went well! :hug:
I'm thinking about you.

auburnchick
05-20-2007, 12:47 PM
I was wondering do you knit together? If not, how about it? Go out together, pick the patterns together along with yarn and have your very own mini knitting club. You could say when behaviour gets better she can ask 1 friend to join in. Maybe insentives like that could speed the process up.


No, we don't knit together. Dd has been embarrassed of my knitting until recent days. She used to be mortified when I would KIP. Especially when one of her teammates commented, "Oh, my grandmother does that." :hmm:

I have offered several times to teach her, but she turns me down every time. I figure she might come around once I make something really cool, although I don't know how much cooler you can get than a booga bag.

So, it's kind of a running joke right now..."Hey Anna, now that we've had such a great day shopping, let's end the day on a really high note and knit."

:whoosh:

"Uh, yeah, right, Mom."

:roflhard:

Oh, and you should have seen us fighting over clothes yesterday at the mall. Dh took us back because one of the stores we did not go into the first go around was having a good sale. So we went back, and he offered to get us a pair of a shorts that we both fit into, but we have to SHARE them. Um, not fair...she never returns my stuff! A retired lady sitting in a chair started laughing at us.

dustinac
05-20-2007, 01:25 PM
:roflhard: that would be me and my mom... she was always sewing or quilting and I wouldn't learn at all.. then I moved to another state and decided I want to learn.. oh the phone calls we had with her trying to teach me and adding ya know if you had learned when I tried to teach you...

I'm glad everything is going good.. she will have her rough days but that could be cause she is 15 too that is such a hard time.. you are in the middle of child and becoming a young adult.. I'm glad you guys did have a good time the other day..

My 3 yr old right now will sit and pretend to knit.. I'm enjoying it cause I know soon she will be gah no!! :rollseyes:

auburnchick
06-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Just thought I would post an update...

It's been about two months now and things have settled down. With the kids being home for the summer, we're not doing much running around.

My daughter has taken on more responsibility at home. She's planning and cooking our meals since I'm so busy with a senior-level college class (lots and lots of papers to write). She's doing an amazing job. She's also doing chores with a new willingness because she's so bored.

Because of her good attitude, I returned the phone that goes in her room (not the cell phone) and her iPod. She was really happy about the iPod, and the house phone meant that she could at least talk to her friends on the phone again.

We took her to tryouts for a team across the state (a new team located five hours away from home) because she was specifically asked to be there, even though she couldn't really do anything during the tryouts due to her knee. The coach took her based on her reputation and has big plans for her as soon as she's 100%. We then allowed her to attend a regional tournament with the team to build a rapport with the team. One of the gals tore her ACL that weekend and had the same kind of surgery as my daughter. My daughter has really showed a lot of maturity by calling her and helping her through the surgery and all of that.

Oh, and just so you know how crazy we are, this new team will be going to several big tournaments. We're going to California for a Thanksgiving tournament, Disney for a Christmas tournament, and possibly D.C. in October. That's not even counting the many other out-of-town engagements besides these. So, traveling with a respectful child is a must. ;)

So, we're loosening the reins a bit. We'll be going to national playoffs with this team next month. My daughter is supposed to be released by her PT, so she'll probably get to play a little bit (I'm scared to death but will trust God in this).

She doesn't know this, but I'm going to let her get her learner's permit when we get back from the tournament...another way to show her that I appreciate her efforts thus far.

Oh, and she's letting me teach her how to knit. How could I forget the best part??? :teehee:

This will be a true test of her resolve. I explained that if she can get through making a hand towel, without being disrespectful -- as you know, learning to knit and purl can challenge even the most patient person -- then I'll give her back her cell phone. So far so good. And she's actually a really good knitter. Go figure. :teehee:

So, we're getting there...slow but sure.

lissalue
06-18-2007, 09:23 PM
I am so glad to here this! :muah::hug:

threesmom
06-18-2007, 09:39 PM
:cheering:Good for you Auburnchick!! - I've followed this post on and off, and I'm so happy to see how well things have been going for you! I work on an acute behavioral health unit for children and teens, and we often see kids whose problems are primarily behavioral. I'm not suggesting your daughter reminds me of our kids, but rather that your patience and persistence with her is what so many of our kids need. So often parents come in and want one week on the unit and some meds to "fix" their kids, and are not willing to do the hard work like you have been. You did the work, and your daughter saw that, and maybe that helped her do what she needed to do too. Who wouldn't respect that? My kids are young, but I hope I show some of your qualities when times get tough when mine teens!:cheering:

auburnchick
06-18-2007, 09:45 PM
:aww:

Only with God's strength...I cannot do anything without Him...

Thank you for the nice compliments. :muah:

snowbear
06-19-2007, 12:02 AM
*runs in and slides on the ice stopping just short of nailing auburnchick with my white furry body!*

I'm soooo proud & happy for you. Now, hopefully, she will understand what you go through to sacrifice for her. I'm so glad she is bending and you are bending to meet in the middle...


( an old country song by tanya tucker..There's a Tree.... love that song)

*hugs auburnchick w/ my big white furry paws.... then slides back on the ice to cool off*
:hug:

Braden
06-19-2007, 12:20 AM
Congratulations! I'm happy for you!

mel.b
06-19-2007, 04:31 AM
Wow! I have just started to read this thread and I think you are doing a fantastic job Auburnchick :hug: and it appears as though all your hard work is starting to pay off.

I was an easy going teenager, but then my parents were fairly strict with me from a young age. Nothing is more humilating than having to go back and shut a door quitely after you have just slammed it:roflhard:

I also don't have children (yet) but I do run parenting courses as part of my job. A couple of key things from the course that you (and anyone reading this thread) can apply are:

- tell your child exactly what you expect. So instead of saying to your child that you don't want them to be disrespectful, tell them that you don't want them talking back, or making derrogative comments etc. Imagine you are talking to a friend on the telephone...can that person picture exactly in their mind what has just happened? If not, you need to be more specific (so instead of saying "johnny was aggressive to his sister, say "Johnny hit his sister with the stick"). This will help set clear boundries for what behavour you expect.

- Have house rules and use 'do' rules rather than 'don't rules'. Tell your child want you want, not want you don't want. Instead of saying 'don't touch that', tell them 'put that glass down' or 'leave that glass alone". If you say 'don't touch that' they'll only go and touch something else.

- Think about when you give your child an instruction or command. For example, I remember reading that you had just sat down to watch Lost and then asked your son to do something. Consider the importance of the instruction and the timing of the instruction. Is this instruction important or can it wait. It often helps to give a warning...for example "when the ads come on, I want you to put out the garbage" Also for younger children consider the number of instructions you have given them and the complexity of the instruction you have just given them (will they need help to do it?).

- Finally, make sure your removal of privilages (which is one of the best techniques for older children) and/or negative consequences is not actually a positive for your child (it doesn't sound like this your case but it can be for some children) Consider the child who acts up in class at maths time. He gets sent to the principals office. For most children this would scare the pants off them, but for this child, going to the office, is actually better than doing the maths. He has actually just got what he wanted (getting out of maths).

I hope that helps and keep up the great work,

Mel.b

Nobones
06-19-2007, 04:49 AM
This is great news, I was wondering how you were getting on. I'm so pleased to hear your knitting with your DD, I longed for my Mum to teach me but she never would. It would have been so nice to sit and knit and chat and share something together.

I hope you have continued success.

Big hugs to you and DD for doing so well.

nonny2t
06-19-2007, 07:46 AM
Mega wonderful for you, your family and especially her! I am so glad things are turning around for you and the house is becoming balanced a bit again! Sometimes kids just go through a rebellious stage.

Funny story about kids though. My oldest son (the one that just had the gorgeous baby) is 34. His dad was talking to him on the phone a couple weeks ago about Johnny Depp (we had just gone to see the new Pirates movie) Now understand that when Jack was in high school we were pretty straightlaced and strict with him trying to keep the drugs, booze etc away like all parents sometimes struggle with especially with boys. He wasn't a backtalker, but he did get into a few scrapes with us about a couple out of bound things he did as a teen. He is now a responsible man, with short hair, a good job, a great wife, home and new baby. His dad was telling him that he thought Johnny Depp was a good actor, but all his movies were weird. My son said to him, "Well Pop, my suggestion is before you want to go see another Johnny Depp movie, smoke a doobie first and you will understand it better.":rofling::lol::rofl:

auburnchick
06-19-2007, 09:17 AM
:teehee:

auburnchick
06-19-2007, 09:18 AM
*runs in and slides on the ice stopping just short of nailing auburnchick with my white furry body!*


:passedout:

Kaydee
06-19-2007, 09:30 AM
I was thinking about you recently wondering how things were going with your DD. I'm glad to hear that the situation has taken a turn for the better. It sounds like you're doing a great job with her and things can only get better.

Stiney
06-19-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm glad things are working out. I hope she doesn't have too many setbacks. :hug:

auburnchick
06-19-2007, 06:12 PM
I'm glad things are working out. I hope she doesn't have too many setbacks. :hug:


You and me both. ;)

CarmenIbanez
06-19-2007, 10:02 PM
California at Thanksgiving? What part?

Nanaof6
06-20-2007, 06:18 AM
Nathalie,

I've walked in your shoes, years ago but the memories or still there. I hope you didn't take her bed away from her hon. I mean , even in prison they get a bed.(just kidding)

My daughter is 36 now . She has grown ,but there are still some important issues she will one day have to deal with. She never had a potty mouth with us and there was no real disrespect as far as how she talked to us, it was breaking the set down rules that almost killed me. My hushand was very overbearing with her with rules ,with all three of my kids and that was the root of all our childrearing troubles. It was his way or grounding. He never took time to sit and talk with them like they were important and had feelings too. Never bonded with them to even know if something was brothering them . He really just made thing worse ,trying to get his point across to them that ....these are the rules break them and pay the price. which was non stop grounding. Which Did Absoulety Nothing to help show the kids the error of their ways.

I understand all to well just what your going through Hon. But you have to find help to deal with her. stripping her of everything that you have handed to her is not going to help and it will make her act out even more.

I feel for the new parents coming up. Our youth are growing up with trash on the movie screens and trash on the radio and tv . kids are taught at an early age by what they see and hear that it's ok to swear and act out with their parents and be disrespectful to them and why not...it's all over the media. Take a look at their idols!!! Listen to their music!

I know I'll take some heat on this but, parents nowadays need to go back to the 1950's way of thinking. But It may be to late. I grew up without a phone glued to my ear and I came out fine. My parents were blue collar hard working and I wore what clothes they could afford and never thought anything of it. You didn't SWEAR infront of ANY ADULT OR SMOKE INFRONT OF THEM because you just knew that they'd go back and tell your parents ..and that's when it was ok to spank your kids. I didn't do alot of stuff ,not out of fear of being grounded but getting my butt beat!

yes , I truely feel sorry for our youth coming up because it's not getting any better.

I think it all started with the 'Rosesanne show' lol...........

auburnchick
06-20-2007, 08:58 AM
I'm not sure what part of California. Guess I'll find out when I order our plane tickets. ;-)

auburnchick
06-20-2007, 09:02 AM
I know I'll take some heat on this but, parents nowadays need to go back to the 1950's way of thinking.

You know, I'm pretty conservative. My kids are not allowed to watch a lot of what they friends watch. I monitor their music too. But I explain WHY I'm doing this..."garbage in, garbage out..."

Oh, and no, I didn't take away her bed. By taking away things she prized, I wanted to show her that having those things is a privilege that has been taken for granted. She's very blessed, and while she doesn't know this yet, she will one day. She needed a reality check, and given the materialistic nature of many children today, that really was a good way to do it.

Thanks for your understanding words. Your words remind me of Snowbear. Are you two related???

:muah: :hug:

snowbear
06-21-2007, 11:05 AM
My dd has a 2.5 yr old daughter.. ( yes it is nice that paybacks are being able to be seen, :teehee:

My dgd kept pushing her Mom with this obnoxious toy that somehow got delivered to her.. ( I really didn't know it would be soo obnoxious.. that I promise)

My dd warned her dd 3 x about running w/ said toy. She did not stop. So.. the toy got put up, w/out dgd being able to play with it for 1 entire day!

She could see it, but not play.

Then dd took toy down, explained why she did it, and what would happened if dgd played w/ it wrong.

DGD looked at toy, ( she loved it) and stated ok. she played with it correctly. She started to get a bit obnoxious, and dd warned her. She stopped, stated "No shelf, I play nice," and did.

So, even at that age, 2.5, they can start learning what happens to bad behaviour!

Auburnchick, I had mentioned your situation w/ her. She thought back to her teen yrs, and actually said she was sorry. She stated she thought she would have died w/out all her stuff!, lol She is a very girlie girl. So, even though dd is almost 24, she is learning and putting your example to work.

* Stands up on back leggs, and hugs Auburnchick big time with my 2 big polar bear arms.....


Thanks for sharing, it has helped more than you will know!
:muah::heart::hug:

auburnchick
06-21-2007, 06:31 PM
Thanks for sharing, it has helped more than you will know!



God really can bring good out of situations like this. I'm so glad that it's helping your daughter, not only in her relationship with her own daughter, but also with the relationship between the two of you.

:muah::hug::muah::hug::muah::hug::muah::hug::muah: :hug::muah:

Ellen Edwards
06-23-2007, 04:11 PM
Nathalie--I'm so glad I saw this thread...it has been a LONG read, but everything that everyone has said has been interesting. I didn't agree with a few of them, but we are all different, and they would not agree with me, either!

God bless you for hanging in there. Today, it seems, that even Christians are afraid to speak of their faith, and consistently, you have added that through faith, you will get through this. AND YOU WILL!! For with Him, we can do everything; without Him, we can do nothing. I KNOW that your dd will get to the point where she realizes what an awesome mom she has.

Then, before she's fully grown, she may even shift and change back into that insolent child that she was---when she moves out of your home. But you have given her the basics, the roots of faith and love and even if she strays from that, I believe she will come back to it.

I'm older than most of the KH forum members, I think. I'm 57, I had 2 children. I was young when I had my daughter, and she and I were very very close. We lost her 9 years ago, when she died in her sleep--the coroner said she had an enlarged heart and had suffered a fatal heart attack. Her 7-year-old son (our grandson) found her that morning, and was with her body for several hours before his dad happened to come by to check on them at lunchtime.

It was totally traumatic for all of us--my dh and I could not be reached for hours and when I next saw my precious daughter--it was in a black zippered bag in the hospital morgue with my dh and curious people standing --watching us to see , I suppose, what we were going to do--how we were going to react. (How did they think????)

She and I talked several times a day--laughing about something, having serious talks, or remembering something that had happened when she and her brother were growing up. I think the hardest part was knowing I'd never hear her laugh again, or hear her say, "Mama--"

DH and I were not perfect parents....just as everyone else. But we tried to instill values and we couldn't accept disobedience from our kids. We didn't let our children make choices that they were not capable of making--because sometimes, in these days, children are given so many choices at WAY too young an age!! They WANT and need guidance from the people they love--their parents!! In fact--the time we spend with our parents (the good times and the bad) will be what we remember most later on--NOT what they GAVE us.

It's easy to see that you and your dh have given up a lot for your dd to participate in the sport she's so good at!! And, I can tell you have already prayed for answers, Nathalie--can I share this with you?

When my dd was in the 7th grade--she came home crying everyday from school--for she was being picked on mainly because she didn't have the clothes, house or money that the kids in her private school had. I really wanted to put her in a public school, but at that time, my husband thought THIS was the RIGHT thing. No--we couldn't afford it--but we did it with both kids.

When our children are unhappy--we HURT!! I cried with her!! One day, before she came home from school--I went in to my bedroom and closed the door and dropped to my knees and prayed that God would change this terrible situation we were in. I knew I had done everything I knew to do. I knew I couldn't bear to see her suffer anymore.

Soon, she was coming home, telling me funny things about her day--and also about the bad times. But at the end of that school year, she went out for cheer leading, and she made it--and for 5 years she was on the football and basketball cheer leading team. She was co-captain for the last 2 years. It did so much for her self-esteem.

Now--does God answer prayers by sending a cheer-leading team?? I have no idea--I only know He answered my prayer. And when she was 24 she was married, and had a son. One day, I got a card in the mail saying, "Dear Mama, I never knew that it was you who had the hardest job in the world. Staying home with Rob is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life--but I love him, and I know it'll be worth it!"

The thing that I'm most thankful for now-- is knowing with assurance that she was saved--and her dad and she had just talked about that the Monday before she died between Weds. night and Thurs. morning. I could not live the rest of my life out thinking that she was lost because we had not brought her up without , at the very least, a chance to know Jesus Christ as her Saviour. I know this is a "hot topic"--but Nathalie, since you have so consistently mentioned YOUR Christianity, I feel that it is "ok" for me to talk this way. I don't judge anyone who has not accepted Christ as their Saviour--it is MY choice in my life. It is what makes me strong enough to live until the day I see Him, and I see my little girl again.



Now--I expect that I have offended some people, and let me apologize to you now for I mean NO harm!! Please--I ask your forgiveness in advance!!:pray:

But, I'm only cheering Nathalie on for her mothering, and for her faith!! And I am only saying what is in my heart--because I KNOW how precious our children are------for I have lost one.:heart:

auburnchick
06-23-2007, 06:13 PM
Trudy,
Oh, wow!!! Your post really, really touched my heart. :muah:

First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so glad that you and your daughter had such a close relationship. What wonderful memories you have. I can only hope that one day my daughter and I will be that close.

Now, to reassure you...I don't think that you offended anyone by your post. You know that there's another interesting thread about people sharing their beliefs. I have shared my faith because it's such an everyday part of my life. Not that I think it's an ordinary experience, but it's just "normal" for me. I hope that makes sense. I think that Christianity is not a religion that you practice once or twice a week or once or twice a year (Christmas and Easter). It's a way of life. It's kind of like eating healthy. Crash dieting does not work because we revert back to our old habits of eating. Once we learn to eat healthfully (that's not really a word, I think), then we eat that way daily.

Now...going back to your experience with your daughter...

God uses interesting things as answers to prayers. I think that God did use the cheerleading as a way to answer your prayers. It sounds like she found a place where she belonged at school -- something that is very important for teens.

That's how it is with my daughter's soccer team at school. Even though I didn't want her playing high school ball for fear of injury (high schoolers tend to be less talented, and thus more prone to hurt others, than elite players who travel), and she did get hurt playing a high school game, I think that she has been identified as an athlete. That's her niche. She's earned the respect of many because of her leadership on the field (due to her experience with her other high level team).

A good thing that has come from this injury is that my daughter has gotten more involved with the youth group. She has been able to attend both Sunday and Wednesday evening get-togethers for the last several months.

Last week they had a work day where they went to several houses and pulled weeds and did other things for some elderly people. My daughter and I were talking about it today. She told me that our church has the most active youth group in town (although we don't live in a huge city, it does have another large church with a youth group). She told me how close the kids are to one another. And the best part is that most of these kids go to the same high school. I find it reassuring that the kids see each other at school and support each other there. She told me that some of them get together during lunch to have a mini Bible study and pray. Wow! I was so impressed.

Anyhow, this process is very slow. We're still having some issues, but it will take time and lots of faith.

My main concern is that she takes the plunge and surrenders her life to Jesus. All of this will hopefully be a part of that experience. I will cry with relief when that happens.

Have a wonderful day! Please know that you've been a blessing to me today!!!

:muah::hug:

Ellen Edwards
06-23-2007, 06:37 PM
Thank you so much for your lovely reply. You are so right--it IS a way of life -- not a once a year celebration. Our heavenly Father looks at us as His children --as we do ours. Sometimes we are not walking in the right path, and He finds ways to show us our mistakes so that we can be happy and safe. I have never , in any way, thought that my daughter was "taken" from us as a form of His punishment; I believe everyone has their moment to go.

I have tried to think of what He would like for me to learn from it. And I guess the main thing I've learned so far, it's gives me a wonderful chance to witness--and to share this experience with others--not for sympathy, but in hopes that they will treasure their sons and daughters, to cherish them. Guidance is a huge part of their growth--and we can always tell them (when we tell them what they SHOULD do) is that "God has given us rules to live by because He loves us, and until you're an adult, it's our duty to show you the rules as well--because we love you so much!":hug:

I have NO doubt that your problems now with your dd will resolve--because of, more than anything else, your faith and love!