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View Full Version : Your Opinions? Heel Flap VS Short Row Heel


Stitch
06-03-2007, 02:11 PM
Which do you like better? Pros and Cons of each?

Braden
06-03-2007, 02:27 PM
I prefer a flap heel, but

FLAP HEEL:
Pros:

-No measuring, just knit until your flap is a square.
-Turning is a breeze
-You don't have to place markers where you wrap and turn the heel.

Cons:

-Can sometimes take longer to work.
-You have to pick up stitches, which some find difficult.
-Sometimes to keep the decreases even.

SHORT-ROW HEEL:
Pros:

-Doesn't take as long to work.
-You can work it in any stitch you chose.

Cons:
-You have to place markers where you turn the rows.
-Can sometimes be harder to see in a dark yarn.

Hope that helps!

aylaanne
06-03-2007, 02:29 PM
I love short row heels much more than flap heels. I don't place markers when I turn the row, but I also don't have holes when I'm done with the sock. I still haven't managed to make a heel flap without holes.

hummingbird
06-03-2007, 04:03 PM
I really like the short row heel. I like the look of it better and its what I learned first.
The second half where you are knitting all the left behind stitches can be a little tricky the first time.
I don't have to use stitch markers for it and if you decide on the size of the heel before hand you just knit until you have the planned number of stitches left then start back knitting the short rows.
The heel is just half the total stitches and once you start the short row stitches have that little yarn over right by them.

Jeremy
06-03-2007, 06:33 PM
What a great thread. I've never seen this question posed before.:thumbsup:

Chel
06-03-2007, 06:53 PM
I prefer a heel flap. Maybe because I have big feet, but short row heels always seem to be stretched too thin around the heel. Also, I don't like the look of it as much as a heel flap.

Mariblue
06-03-2007, 07:36 PM
:heart: I love the short row heels. I like the look of them better. I don't need stitch markers, I've just learned to recognize where I am. I don't even count anymore. When I first started I'd keep a little chart next to me and mark off every row I did, but I've learned to tell where I am just by looking now. I can turn a heel in about half an hour to forty minutes. Don't know if that's fast or not (compared to others), but I feel pretty accomplished after turning a heel. It's like a sock knitting miracle. :teehee:

Phretys
06-03-2007, 07:36 PM
I remember reading somewhere (probably on this board!) that short row heels wear out faster, and heel flaps knitted with K alternating with slip stitch wear longer.

Debi

Vendie
06-03-2007, 07:57 PM
I like the feel of short row heels better for my feet. And I like knitting them better too. It definitely helps to recognize what the stitches look like when wrapped so you don't have to use markers. I don't wear my handknit socks enough to wear them out, but I have heard that about short row heels.

CateKnits
06-04-2007, 12:07 AM
Neither. I like the afterthought heel. :teehee:

JoeE
06-05-2007, 08:59 PM
Flap! I just like the way it looks, and I think it's super easy to do. I like that you can easily make the heel thicker doing K1 S1 and purling back. I kind of *like* picking up the stitches for the gusset.

Also, I'm clearly impaired when it comes to knitting short rows. I always end up with big honkin' gaps. I try and try to get them to turn out, but I'm just not getting it. Plus, if I'm going to work that long, I want people to know my socks are hand knit. Short rows, done properly, could pass for store bought socks.

Joe

five_six
06-05-2007, 11:04 PM
I short row my heels, and I don't use markers, you just have to learn to recognise which are the wrapped stitches. I'm a little embarassed to say, with all my knitting experience to date, I'm still a little scared of doing a heel flap - and I'm sure I've done much harder things than that, but oh well... they intimidate me a little.

Silver
06-05-2007, 11:40 PM
I personally prefer short row heels WAY more than heel flap heels. I don't use markers either, and never have.

I think they are more cohesive with sock designs, for example, you can integrate them into an intricate fair isle pattern without altering the pattern at all. Like this (http://www.cometosilver.com/knit/fos/celticsocks.jpg).
They look FABULOUS when knit in a contrasting yarn, like this (http://www.cometosilver.com/knit/fos/DSCN5122.JPG).
They're just easier all around to do.
You can easily knit them with an additional nylon yarn for extra strength or in any knit pattern you want.
Both sides have a more symmetrical look than heel flap heels.
They look more like the way toes are worked.
They're exactly the same knit cuff down or toe up.

I :heart: short row heels!

Eloewien
06-06-2007, 12:12 AM
I've found that if I do a heel flap, I have small gaps where I pick up my stitches, which- since I'm an utter perfectionist- drives me nuts!! Therefore, I prefer short rows since I don't notice them nearly as much :)

syndactylus
06-06-2007, 12:34 AM
if I picked up stitches and knit short rows, what's that called?
:??

ChroniclesofYarnia
06-06-2007, 11:18 AM
Anyone have a link to the short row heel technique?

I've only used the flap technique, but I really like the look of the sr hell. However, I am nothing if not practical, so I would probably lean towards the hell flap if it wears longer.

G J
06-06-2007, 12:11 PM
I think they are more cohesive with sock designs, for example, you can integrate them into an intricate fair isle pattern without altering the pattern at all. Like this (http://www.cometosilver.com/knit/fos/celticsocks.jpg).
They look FABULOUS when knit in a contrasting yarn, like this (http://www.cometosilver.com/knit/fos/DSCN5122.JPG).

WOW!!!! These socks look FABULOUS! I've never tried socks, and this topic is making me itch to try them! I just got my first sock yarn in an order from LittleKnits. Do I dare???? What's a GREAT (read easy-to-follow, CLEAR instructions) sock pattern to start with?

Jeremy
06-06-2007, 12:49 PM
I think hell flap may have been a Freudian slip. Anyway, Amy has a video for short rows here (http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/advanced_techniques/) and Silver has an excellent tutorial for both here (http://www.cometosilver.com/socks/SockClass_Intro.htm)

Mariblue
06-06-2007, 01:12 PM
Here is the Universal Toe Up Sock Formula (http://knitty.com/ISSUEsummer06/PATTuniversalsock.html) from Knitty. It uses short rows.

G J
06-06-2007, 02:31 PM
Wow! Silver's tutorial looks great! I see she does NOT have socks on two circulars (the way I usually knit circular) and she does NOT recommend the two socks on one circular for inexperienced sock knitters. What do y'all recommend?

turtlegirl76
06-06-2007, 03:32 PM
I've found that if I do a heel flap, I have small gaps where I pick up my stitches, which- since I'm an utter perfectionist- drives me nuts!! Therefore, I prefer short rows since I don't notice them nearly as much :)

Try knitting your picked up stitches through the back legs on the first following round after picking them up. It'll twist the stitch and tighten it up so there are no gaps.

hydeemarie
06-06-2007, 03:44 PM
I do the heel flap... it makes lots of sense to me.. I have tried to understand the instructions for the short row and I don't get the "wrap" concept! Ah. theres my opinion.

RachelJean
06-06-2007, 04:08 PM
I haven't really decided which one I like better yet. I've only done two pairs of socks with short row heels, and keeping track of all those wraps was a little more fiddley than I like. However, I do love the way they fit, and I like knitting socks toe up so I can try them on as I go. I'm sure once I get used to the short rows, it will be easier. Right now, I'm knitting toe up socks with a heel flap, so the heel is worked backwards from what I'm used to. I kind of like it. I guess the bottom line is that I really like trying all different methods - that way I'll never get bored which is a good thing because I have a LOT of sock yarn.

One thing I have discovered is that I don't like doing socks on two circulars...yuck. You have to keep fiddling with which end of the needles to use, and the needle you're not using just gets in the way. I think I'll stick with my trusty DPN's thank you very much. :lol:

kemp
06-06-2007, 04:59 PM
Wow! Silver's tutorial looks great! I see she does NOT have socks on two circulars (the way I usually knit circular) and she does NOT recommend the two socks on one circular for inexperienced sock knitters. What do y'all recommend?

Have you ever knitted with the magic loop method before? Even if you haven't, I think Silver's instructions are clear enough that you won't have any trouble. The hardest part is keeping the two balls of yarn untangled!

Knitting_Guy
06-06-2007, 05:28 PM
I've only done the flap. Does anyone have instructions for the short row heel that a stupid person can understand?

G J
06-06-2007, 05:28 PM
Have you ever knitted with the magic loop method before? Even if you haven't, I think Silver's instructions are clear enough that you won't have any trouble. The hardest part is keeping the two balls of yarn untangled!
I have not done magic loop, but I've done Fair Isle and had to keep the yarn untangled. I've always done circular knitting with two circular needles b/c I didn't have any long enough needles. I just ordered the KPO's, :woot:though, so I'll have the tools! I'd love to try! I guess if it doesn't work, I frog (carefully!)

Knitting_Guy
06-06-2007, 05:36 PM
Yeah I do one sock at a time using ML.

samm
06-06-2007, 05:44 PM
This is an interesting thread! I've done both heels, and found the first sr heels pooched out in back, although they were super easy and quick to do. I think it had to do with the number of stitches I was to leave for the heel middle? I think I'll look at the instructions here. Maybe they are better. For flap heels, to eliminate that little hole thingy, I pick up an extra stitch, in the corner of the gusset, and on the next round knit it tog with the stitch before it. Seems to work well. I'm not sure I like one way over the other, really, since I learned to slip the first stitch which makes it easy to pick up the required stitches. I'm no sock pro at all! I'm still in the experimenting stages. Each pair a new adventure. :lol: I love knitting socks! samm

turtlegirl76
06-06-2007, 05:52 PM
For me, I like the feel of a heel flap heel on my foot. The sock seems to fit better, and the construction of it looks really nice. But for patterned yarns I really prefer the look of a short row heel instead. It carries the pattern along the sock better. But I don't like the way it feels on my foot. It feels like the sock is riding too low on me or something.

kemp
06-06-2007, 06:08 PM
I've only done the flap. Does anyone have instructions for the short row heel that a stupid person can understand?

There are a bunch...try this one first: http://misocrafty.squarespace.com/journal/2006/9/21/short-row-heel-tutorial.html

Knitting_Guy
06-06-2007, 06:14 PM
There are a bunch...try this one first: http://misocrafty.squarespace.com/journal/2006/9/21/short-row-heel-tutorial.html



Thanks. Not stupid enough I guess, I don't get it.

Jan in CA
06-06-2007, 08:10 PM
Here's a couple more, Mason.

http://alison.knitsmiths.us/shortrow_tutorial.html
http://www.knitpicks.com/images/pdf/ShortRowTutorial.pdf
http://www.thedietdiary.com/blog/index.php?p=222

Knitting_Guy
06-06-2007, 08:17 PM
Here's a couple more, Mason.

http://alison.knitsmiths.us/shortrow_tutorial.html
http://www.knitpicks.com/images/pdf/ShortRowTutorial.pdf
http://www.thedietdiary.com/blog/index.php?p=222



Thank you! Now I get it.

Jan in CA
06-06-2007, 08:19 PM
Thank you! Now I get it.

:thumbsup: