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View Full Version : OT - Daughter's Babysitting Issue (Again)


auburnchick
06-13-2007, 06:23 PM
Hi y'all.

Some of you may remember my posting last week about what my daughter should do regarding being shorted $5 pay for cleaning the kitchen of the child she babysits for (the mother, my friend, offered her this money with a clear request to take care of the dishes).

Anyhow, my dd was too shy to take care of this, so I let it go. I did give her your suggestions, but she didn't use them.

So, this week she only worked seven hours on Monday. My friend decided she didn't need my daughter to sit Tuesday or today because her daughter would be playing at a friend's house. My friend and I work at the same place, and she gave me an envelope with $$ for my daughter for Monday's work.

When my daughter opened the envelope, she discovered that she had been shorted for one hour's worth of work.

:::::::::::::::::Sigh::::::::::::::::::::::;

Now, I personally think it's another oversight, but my dd will NOT stick up for herself. I did tell her that if she had done a spreadsheet to mount to my friend's fridge (where she could write her hours down), then she could have used that for reference.

Anyhow, my daughter is angry, frustrated, and too uncomfortable to say anything.

Ideas??? I am really not sure if I should step in now. What do you think? BTW, my dd is 15.

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 07:21 PM
IMHO it's up to her. She needs to learn to speak up for herself. It's not something you can do for her or push her into doing for herself. When she gets fed up enough she'll handle it.

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 07:26 PM
You know, Mason, you have a good point. I just think she'll continue to let it go. I told her that the only thing that is going to happen is that her resentment and anger are going to continue to build. That is not the right way to go.

Last time I posted about this issue, someone mentioned my modeling what she should do. I'm starting to wonder if I should do that. The mom and I ride together to work sometimes. So I usually arrive back at her house and take my daughter home with me (even though we live down the street from each other). That would be a good time, except that my dd won't be sitting for her next week.

What to do, what to do...:wall:

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 07:31 PM
Honestly, I think you should stay out of it. This is a business contract between your daughter and her client. You should make suggestions, but leave the decision up to her. It's really the only way she's going to learn how to deal with the real world.

Friskums
06-13-2007, 07:52 PM
Being an incredibly shy child myself, regardless of how upset I got, I wouldn't have ever said anything to an adult saying that I felt I wasn't being treated fairly (well, except my mom).

Now, I don't have kids, so I can't 100% relate, but the fact that my mom stood up for me when I didn't have the guts to as a kid didn't hinder my ability to stand up for myself now that I'm an adult.

Personally, I think you should mention something to your friend about both occassions. Yes, you need to be a good example, and it's important for a kid to learn to stick up for themselves... but it's a little different when it's a kid dealing with another kid compared to a kid dealing with an adult.

Edited to add: That being said, I think your daughter NEEDS to document her working hours. Then, if there is another dispute, there is documented evidence to back her up.
If she's not willing to do that simple thing, then there's no need for you to step in. If she's not willing to take any measures to cover herself and her work, then she needs to accept responsibility for her lack of actions.

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 07:54 PM
Could just be a difference in how we were raised ourselves. I was raised to be very independent and self-sufficient, but I can see the other view as well.

In the end, it's your kid and your friend.

Friskums
06-13-2007, 07:57 PM
15's a tough age. You don't want to be treated like a child, but you still want the safety net of being able to run to your parents when you're in trouble. (At least I did.)

I was raised to be very independant and self-sufficient too. But I was also raised that a child should never talk back to an adult, and I would have felt that telling an adult they hadn't given me enough money would be included in that.

It's a really sticky situation and I hope you can work something out. :hug:

SandraEllen
06-13-2007, 08:07 PM
hmmm... maybe you could give the mom a heads up that your daughter wants to talk to her and maybe that will prompt a conversation. You could probably also offer to be with DD while they talk about it. That way DD would know that you are supporting her without you having to do it for her.

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 08:09 PM
hmmm... maybe you could give the mom a heads up that your daughter wants to talk to her and maybe that will prompt a conversation. You could probably also offer to be with DD while they talk about it. That way DD would know that you are supporting her without you having to do it for her.


Not a bad suggestion.

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 08:42 PM
Hmmm...yes, I think it is a good idea as well. It's a little bit of both suggestions.

I'll have to feel out my friend in the morning when we get to work. We're both there early (we work part-time and like to get out quickly). With the quiet time, it would be conducive to mentioning that.

I might run it by my daughter to see how she feels about it.

There's other stuff going on too, but I know my daughter will definitely not address those issues. My friend basically has my daughter "on-call," despite asking her to b'sit for the summer. Dd has counted her $$ ahead of time with the schedule she was given. The schedule is changed weekly, often with prior notice only given the night before. It's been very frustrating.

Dd tells me that this is the last summer she will sit because of the frustrations.

Thanks for the good suggestions! I really appreciate y'all "listening."

:muah:

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 08:46 PM
You should definitely discuss it with your daughter first as it is her issue. She might be very offended if you don't. (I know I would be in her place)

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 08:55 PM
She's generally offended by everything I do, so this would be no surprise. :teehee:

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 08:56 PM
She's generally offended by everything I do, so this would be no surprise. :teehee:

That goes with the age :rofling:

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 09:00 PM
Nawwwww, it's the child. She's been this way since she was 2.

Now, when she hits 30 and has a couple of kids of her own kids who are just like her...then it will be different.

Knitting_Guy
06-13-2007, 09:02 PM
Nawwwww, it's the child. She's been this way since she was 2.

Now, when she hits 30 and has a couple of kids of her own kids who are just like her...then it will be different.

:rofling:

Sounds familiar...

Friskums
06-13-2007, 09:12 PM
Whenever I was being bratty my mom would tell me "I can't WAIT till you have kids of your own!" :rofling::rofling:

(It wasn't just me being bratty though... she was going through a very rough time as we were realizing she was being diagnosed with bi-polar.)

snowbear
06-13-2007, 09:13 PM
IMHO:

Ok Been there done that, weathered the storm & survived w/ friend & daughter still talking to me.

Sit down w/ daughter show her how to make a m-f exel and make copies. Show her how one time.

She Writes a short letter to friend w/ 2 empty forms in envelope. Letter states: Since it is summer & you did request me to babysit would you do me the following favor:

Please list at least 1 week ahead of time the schedule you would like me to work and give it to my mom.

I'll bring it with me to work and at the end of each day we'll initial the day's work.

I want to treat this babysitting as the job it is. This way I know 1 week ahead of time when to plan and how much $ I can budget.

I do request that we do this each week. You had told me prior that you wanted me to work each week. I know Mom counts on working her schedule, as do you. Please give me the same courtesy.

Thank you,

dd's name

I helped my DD do this the first time. Each week she took the schedule filled out by the mom to the first day she worked. and picked the next week's schedule she had left on her last day of the previous week, empty to be filled out by the Mom.

15 is hard. and your DD is struggling to overcome some challanges. This way you show by example, help her start, then she can continue.
Sorry for so long, but wanted to explain it fully.


Just what worked for me...


good luck

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 09:27 PM
Hi Snowbear!!!

:muah::hug:

I think that the schedule idea is really good. I think if we phrased it as "confirmation of next week's schedule," then it won't come across wrong.

This is a very delicate situation. My friend's dh is my dh's boss. We're all the same age, and the guys came up together through the company. She and I are starting to grow close. It's just so darned awkward.

But I still need to help my daughter.

Thanks a bunch!!!

Thanks for the idea. I will definitely try to help my daughter incorporate them.

Kaydee
06-13-2007, 09:30 PM
Not to sound harsh or anything but I personally think that you should leave it to your DD to take care of the situation herself. I was always a very shy kid and my mom did a lot for me. After a while she stepped out letting me handle things for myself and if she didn't do this I probably would've been a lot less self sufficient. I think that if you leave this up to your DD it'll be a lesson to her that either she can let it keep happening to her or stand up for herself (despite how unconfortable she might be) and handle the situation. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

auburnchick
06-13-2007, 09:49 PM
You know, Kaydee, you are right. But don't we need to give our kids some guidance? I'm totally for teaching kids self-sufficiency, as evidenced by my previous posts. But perhaps the reason that she didn't take care of this issue the first time was because she didn't know how. Sure, it's uncomfortable, and I acknowledged that fact with her. And sure, I could try to let her fumble her way through it.

So I'm playing devil's advocate...please don't think I'm arguing with you. :hug:

Parenting is so tough! You walk such a fine line on issues like this.

:wall: :wall: :wall:

Mariblue
06-13-2007, 09:51 PM
IMHO:

Ok Been there done that, weathered the storm & survived w/ friend & daughter still talking to me.

Sit down w/ daughter show her how to make a m-f exel and make copies. Show her how one time.

She Writes a short letter to friend w/ 2 empty forms in envelope. Letter states: Since it is summer & you did request me to babysit would you do me the following favor:

Please list at least 1 week ahead of time the schedule you would like me to work and give it to my mom.

I'll bring it with me to work and at the end of each day we'll initial the day's work.

I want to treat this babysitting as the job it is. This way I know 1 week ahead of time when to plan and how much $ I can budget.

I do request that we do this each week. You had told me prior that you wanted me to work each week. I know Mom counts on working her schedule, as do you. Please give me the same courtesy.

Thank you,

dd's name

I helped my DD do this the first time. Each week she took the schedule filled out by the mom to the first day she worked. and picked the next week's schedule she had left on her last day of the previous week, empty to be filled out by the Mom.

15 is hard. and your DD is struggling to overcome some challanges. This way you show by example, help her start, then she can continue.
Sorry for so long, but wanted to explain it fully.


Just what worked for me...


good luck

I totally agree with Snowbear about having a schedule written up. It's the only way to address both issues without offending. This way your daughter will not be left in the lurch as to whether or not she'll actually be babysitting, and she won't get short changed with the money either.
If she does nothing, this will just keep happening. :hug:

baronreads
06-13-2007, 11:15 PM
I would probably do one of two things - first I would tell your daughter that she needs to speak up and why, and model a conversation for her, give her ideas on how to bring it up. I've done this with my kids before when they have to talk to a boss about an uncomfortable situation. But then I let them go and do it on their own. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

The other thing you could do since it is a friend is say something like, "DD is concerned about xxx, but isn't comfortable bringing it up." Or something like that and I would think (at least if it was ME) that your friend would take the ball and run with it, asking your daughter what the problem is or if they need to talk. I don't see anything wrong with this. I would tell your daughter before you do it though, so she is aware that her employer will be talking with her.

Not all kids are comfortable bringing up money issues to an employer. Heck, I don't like doing it as an adult, and I'm pretty outspoken! I think either of these two scenarios would help your daughter work through her uncomfortableness. Good luck!

One more thing, the WHOLE situation will help your daughter in the long run with future jobs and employers! It's a GREAT learning experience!

redwitch
06-14-2007, 12:43 AM
If she would like to bring it up but is nervous, maybe you could do a roleplay where she practises the conversation with someone else as your friend a few times? Or get her to read this thread? There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable about asking someone to live up to their end of the agreement, even if it's an oversight (rather than being stingy. Five dollars for f***'s sake).
Ask your daughter whether, if the friend simply had not paid her for a couple of weeks, she would hesitate to remind the friend that it's Friday and time for her pay?

Good luck it sounds like a potentially tricky situation. If you want me to stick my nose in... I agree that if she does bring it up the best way is to say 'I know you're busy, you overlooked xxx' rather than 'are you trying to rip me off or something?'

debinoz
06-14-2007, 01:05 AM
I'd try to stay out of it as much as possible.

From your previous posts, your DD sounds A LOT like my DD and I know if I stuck my nose in and the tiniest thing went wrong, I'd never hear the end of it. :tap:

Susan P.
06-14-2007, 03:09 AM
Ok..I am loathe to contribute in these topics often anymore..however..for the sake of the exercise I would be minimising my involvement and not (no offense to poster who suggested it) by having daughter telling woman she will show you invoices etc. You work with this person I understand and that places you in a problem situation. I also suspect the 'on call' issue arose and was perhaps initially ok. Sometimes we find these arrangements become too much..but this should not be about resentment and blame but should be able resolving problematics.
It may be impossible for the woman to know a week ahead but a compromise may be 48hrs notice.

However..before all these resolves don't you auburnchick have a strong religious ethos in your home or work to establish that? If I'm correct in this perception I would be talking to your daughter about acceptance, forgiveness and self assertion.

Acceptance there are issues that need to be resolved.
Forgiveness to the woman who may have short changed her and may now be asking too much or for more and more (which MAY be because she feels your daughter is capable and reliable - let's not assume the worst per se)
Forgiveness to herself for not expressing her concerns and thus short circuiting building resentment.
Self assertion about 'what is ok' for self and yet doing this within the broader context of not short changing another person either.

At 15 your daughter is preparing for adult life and needs to accept that asking for appropriate payment and raising small issues is part of what the world of work will be about.

This said, your daughter will be understandably shy or reluctant *however*, what she could do would be to draw up a pro forma (someone said excel but word would do. Make it simple because this is simple. Just a header for the date of the week being addressed and then a break down into days. Alongside each day both parties will initial and then there will be a total at the end of the week to be paid.

Your daughter can simply say that this form is to help her get used to the sort of invoices she may encounter in years to come and that she'd welcome having a system in place to learn basic accounting etc.

I think this is perhaps the one thing you could do with her or on her behalf but that is all.

I like to think, as suggested, these things really are simple and that it's often our approach that makes it complex. IF or should the woman not adhere to the sheets etc then your daughter can give up the babysitting entirely with the view that a reasonable system will usually be met in kind by reasonable people.

Susan P.
06-14-2007, 03:16 AM
debinoz... I tend to agree with your concern. I do think parents can step in here and there and offer a resolve for a practical issue but, yes, said parent will tend to be the person bitten if something goes awry. Sometimes the best we can do it to encourage and give some advice and then sit back and let life transpire and the learning curve to roll out as it will.

HamburgKnitter
06-14-2007, 03:29 AM
Disclaimer: I have no children.

But I thought I'd pipe up to say that I think the suggestion of you initiating a conversation between your friend and your daughter is a good one. You could say to your friend that your daughter needs to talk to her about two small financial issues that have come up over the past couple of weeks, but that she is too shy to do so. And that you wuold appreciate it if your friend would make sure to find out what they are.

Your daughter might be mad for a little while - at 15 I would have been mad at my mother if she WOULD have done something and if she WOULDN'T have done anything....so what do you have to lose?

This conversation could have the extra added effect of your friend being just a tiny bit embarrassed about having short-changed your daughter and you knowing about it. So it means that she would possibly be a bit more careful in the future. :cheering: $5 to her is probably just "spare change", but to a 15-year-old that's a decent amount of money.

Nobones
06-14-2007, 06:04 AM
Like some of the others here I have no children, but I can't help feeling really indignant on your daughters behalf. She's being mucked about with, plain and simple. If you don't do something about it your daughter might not learn that that isn't proper behavior and allow other employers in the future do the same.

If it were me, I would sit your daughter down and try and make her understand that this isn't fair and does have to be dealt with. It maybe a little awkward but it can be resolved in your daughters favor. I agree with schedule, very good idea and it's good practice. At the end of the day, your daughter has the right to ask, and that's important.

But that's only what I'd do. I really hope you get this sorted out. I do believe your daughter is being treated unfairly.

auburnchick
06-14-2007, 07:36 AM
Wow! I was so PLEASED to find these GREAT responses when I got up this morning!

Susan, you do remember correctly. We're Christians, and forgiveness is probably one of the biggest tenets. I almost always try to tie everything back into our relationship with God. This was a good reminder for me, because I had not done so in this case.

I think I'm going to get my daughter to read this thread. She'll probably buck me on it, but I think that it might hit home a bit more than having to listen to me. :yadda:

Hmmm...I'll let y'all know if she does anything. Off to work for a few hours now...

Thanks again!!!!! :muah::muah::muah::hug::hug::hug:

Holly
06-14-2007, 11:26 AM
I found myself in similar babysitting situations when I was younger, and I also never spoke up for myself. However, I probably would have resented and been embarrassed by my Mom's interference :shrug: Looking back, I wish that I was more assertive about what I charge, etc... I really like the idea of the weekly schedule. She could even explain that she understands that she won't be needed to sit as often as first thought, and so would like to have her schedule so she can take other jobs, but still give them first priority. My sister has a nanny who fills out a "my day" paper each day that lists what the kids ate, nap times, activities, etc... (just a 1/2 sheet of paper w/ cute kid graphics and boxes for info). She could provide this extra service for the Mom, and maybe have a spot for babysitting start/end times, or just total hrs. worked. If she gets shorted again, she could say something like "I think you may have miscalculated my hrs. My notes show that I worked X # of hrs... could you check my sheets again?..." If the mom is truly forgetting some hrs, she can refer to the daily activity sheets. Maybe she could even leave a ring binder where all the daily log sheets are kept?

For future jobs, she can state her fees up front, and explain that she keeps a "my day" log, etc... It shows seriousness for the job - an extra edge over other teen sitters. Even if she just sits for an evening - how nice to come home to a log of how the evening went. It also serves as an "invoice" of sorts.

Good luck w/ this very frustrating situation! Holly

Kaydee
06-14-2007, 11:53 AM
You know, Kaydee, you are right. But don't we need to give our kids some guidance? I'm totally for teaching kids self-sufficiency, as evidenced by my previous posts. But perhaps the reason that she didn't take care of this issue the first time was because she didn't know how. Sure, it's uncomfortable, and I acknowledged that fact with her. And sure, I could try to let her fumble her way through it.

So I'm playing devil's advocate...please don't think I'm arguing with you. :hug:

Parenting is so tough! You walk such a fine line on issues like this.

:wall: :wall: :wall:


I totally understand where you're coming from with this. Having no kids myself I can't really tell you what to do just what I'd do in this situation. I know that you spoke to her before about having a schedule made out where she can fill out her hours and this seems like the best idea. I guess I would just emphasize the fact that if she doesn’t make the schedule this could keep happening to her, whether it’s an oversight or not. If she has a schedule posted where her employer can clearly see what she has done for the week there is no way that she can be short changed, and if she is it may be easier for her to say something like “hey I just wanted to let you know that you only paid me for x and y but if you look at my schedule I did x, y, and z this week”.

I feel for you both because I understand that this is a very uncomfortable situation for both of you, her being shy and this person being a friend of yours. It seems like you’re a great parent, I’ve read your other thread about your daughter and you’re looking out for what’s going to be best for her. I hope you can resolve this issue somehow. Good luck!:muah:

bip
06-14-2007, 01:37 PM
I wonder if the fact that this person is your friend is complicating the matter. When I was 15, I would have hesitated to correct a friend of my mom's. I didn't respect my elders or anything, I just didn't want to make waves in her friendships.

This whole thing reminds me of a hilarious story.

The son of a very close friend of my mom and my brother pretty much grew up together. When the boys were about 15, the other family was going to Europe for 2 weeks and since their son was an only child, they invited my brother along.

At some point they were hiking around and the mom got cold so she went back to the car to put long pants on. She came back in my brother's pants!!! At first he wasn't sure if she knew it and was just borrowing them, but then she never gave them back. He was so embarrassed that he just went w/o long pants for the rest of the trip.

When he got back, he told my mom the story and made her promise not to tell. For once in her life my mom was actually able to keep quiet, and it was several years until my brother finally let her tell her friend. The friend almost died laughing.

Anyway, obviously there is no point to this story except that it wouldn't have been nearly as uncomfortable to just tell the woman she had his pants as he had it made out to be in his mind.

It would be great for your daughter to step up and take care of this kind of thing at a young age. Its one of those things that if you start young, it gets easier as you get older. If you put it off, it gets harder as you get older! IMHO. But from your point of view, it's the old "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".

brownishcoat
06-14-2007, 01:59 PM
If my daughter were in this situation, this is what I would say to her:

"Here are your options. A) Straighten out the situation on your own, B) let me help you straighten it out (to learn the "right" way to handle it), or C) ignore the problem and hope it will go away. Be warned, if you choose option C, YOU HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHT TO BE UPSET ABOUT OR COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS SITUATION FROM THIS POINT ON. Period."

My parents are very strict, and this is pretty much how they would have advised me.

Hope it does not sound too harsh, but I consider this a very serious situation that needs to be dealt with right away.

zazzu
06-14-2007, 03:50 PM
If my daughter were in this situation, this is what I would say to her:

"Here are your options. A) Straighten out the situation on your own, B) let me help you straighten it out (to learn the "right" way to handle it), or C) ignore the problem and hope it will go away. Be warned, if you choose option C, YOU HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR RIGHT TO BE UPSET ABOUT OR COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS SITUATION FROM THIS POINT ON. Period."

I've read this entire thread, and I like this advice the best (though, everyone's input was good!). At 15, I liked having choices, even if none of them was great.

I have a feeling that if we were talking about a teenage boy, the advice would probably be different. A boy would be nudged harder to speak up for himself. You know, the "be a man" thing. ;)

auburnchick
06-14-2007, 03:55 PM
Thanks for all of the wonderful comments and ideas.

I let my daughter read through them, and she's got the 15 yo attitude. She thinks I'm nuts for talking to people I don't even know. Harrumph... what does she know.

Anyhow, I think that simply reading the comments will do her good. She knows now that she has many options. She won't be able to think about the situation without thinking of the options everyone gave.

I did tell her that I think she is making a mistake. Oh well...

I, for one, appreciate the advice. Y'all are the BEST!!! :heart:

:muah::hug::muah::hug:

snowbear
06-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Perfect solution

She read the posts.. got all our ideas.. including what "we" feel a 15 should do.. now she has no excuse.. and should not gripe


:muah::hug:

Awesome solution.


You my dear Go to the head of Parenthood!

Susan P.
06-14-2007, 08:24 PM
Welll.. in fairness to the daughter..how many instances do we hear of young girls overly trusting men online and wondering why they trusted a stranger? Ok..so..this was discussion and not meeting but better she is cynical than too trusting perhaps.

brownishcoat
06-14-2007, 08:50 PM
Susan, I agree with you. Part of the reason I was so concerned was that, "If she lets her employer take advantage this way, imagine how much influence the future boyfriend(s) will have."

Scared me! :shock:

auburnchick
06-14-2007, 10:20 PM
Oh, believe me, she knows about online safety. We zapped two Zanga sites she created. She nearly lost her soccer over that. I used to work at a law enforcement agency and saw many reports.

I explained that I didn't use any real names and that y'all don't know where I live, and that I take proper precautions.

However, her basic point is that she knows it all and we don't know anything. Especially strangers who we don't know.

I explained that she doesn't know her teachers the first day she walks into class, yet they have things to teach her that are important. But in her opinion, it's different because it's face-to-face. However, my online college classes are basically no different.

Oh well. Like I said, she did read the ideas. She can't "un-read" them. They've left an impression, whether she wants to admit it or not.

auburnchick
06-14-2007, 10:22 PM
Susan, I agree with you. Part of the reason I was so concerned was that, "If she lets her employer take advantage this way, imagine how much influence the future boyfriend(s) will have."

Trust me...she is very strong and opinionated. She will rule the roost, not the man. :teehee: