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View Full Version : umm... did we just get censored?


brendajos
06-17-2007, 06:26 PM
Or am I just not seeing where that thread got moved to? :??

Jeremy
06-17-2007, 06:34 PM
The thread got moved because the content had become so inflammatory and controversial .The value of the thread was outweighed by the bad feelings and hurt that were being generated. The conversation can of course continue elsewhere.

Braden
06-17-2007, 06:39 PM
I figured that thread wouldn't last long, when I saw the discussions.

brendajos
06-17-2007, 06:51 PM
so "moved" is a euphamism for deleted? hmmm

Ingrid
06-17-2007, 07:07 PM
It was moved to the Moderator's forum. We (the mods) felt that this isn't really the place for inflammatory discussion such as this. Too many feelings can be hurt. :hug:

kristinw
06-17-2007, 07:12 PM
That's too bad it ended up the way it did :pout:

Braden
06-17-2007, 07:47 PM
We (the mods) felt that this isn't really the place for inflammatory discussion such as this. Too many feelings can be hurt. :hug:

Exactly, I'm not a mod, but I personally didn't post to it because I didn't want to offend anyone. I think it's a good thing it was moved.

suzeeq
06-17-2007, 08:05 PM
I don't even know which thread it was...

sue

ekgheiy
06-17-2007, 08:08 PM
I don't even know which thread it was...

sue Neither do I. I fear that asking which one will defeat the purpose of it having been moved from the public. :shifty:

suzeeq
06-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Yeah. I guess it was one we weren't reading....

sue

ekgheiy
06-17-2007, 08:11 PM
Yeah. I guess it was one we weren't reading....

sue

I've been away for a while. What's yer excuse ?? ... :poke: Hehehe ... :teehee:

suzeeq
06-17-2007, 08:23 PM
I usually only read the General, How to, pattern and sometimes the KAL forums so I missed it. And I don't look at every thread in those...
sue

ekgheiy
06-17-2007, 08:31 PM
Aaahh ... so many posts, so little time.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

zkimom
06-17-2007, 09:04 PM
An inflammatory thread on a Knitting Forum???

What ever did I miss??? :whoosh:

Did someone make derogatory comments about using acrylics or mention crochet?

We really do need an OT Forum, don't we? :shrug:

Gosh, I miss all the fun around here! :pout:

ekgheiy
06-17-2007, 09:26 PM
Did someone make derogatory comments about using acrylics or mention crochet?

Had to be the "c" word. That'd pull 10 on MY fire-meter.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

Susan P.
06-17-2007, 09:38 PM
I suspect I know which one it was and although the initial posts were fine I believed it would wind up drawing adverse views which then would be pounced on.

These issues are one reason I voted "no" to an OT forum. People talk about self restraint but this behaviour isn't clear cut and it isn't JUST a matter of ensuring no swear words etc are posted. It's more complex when topics home in on a person's religious or values systems etc.

In ONE way I guess pushing that kind of activity into a discrete forum alleviates issues in the knitting ones IF people stick to that.

Anyway, all these things take mod time and I appreciate - as all do I believe - the time devoted.

Braden
06-17-2007, 09:42 PM
I can give you the name of the thread, and, like Susan said, the first few posts were fine, but then it took a turn for the worse.

Thread name: "Happy Gay Day!"

I don't mean to offend anyone by posting that name, and that is the main reason I didn't post to it. This is also why I voted no to an OT forum.

ready2knit
06-17-2007, 09:51 PM
[
Thread name: "Happy Gay Day!"

I saw that thread but didn't read it, as it didn't seem to be of interest to me. I guess it's always best to stay away from "hot bottom" issues- especially in this type of setting.

I stay out of those conversations and just keep...:knitting:


Jana

Braden
06-17-2007, 09:54 PM
Exactly, that's what I do. Although I'm sure the person who started that thread had perfectly good intentions, it might have been controversial to some members, and we've just all learned a lesson from this.

ekgheiy
06-17-2007, 09:59 PM
Dang it! I remember seeing that in the general, but never opened it. Ah well ...
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_14_2.gif Hehehehe ...

rebecca
06-17-2007, 10:20 PM
ek, why do you have a smiley with crutches?! What have i missed?! Ya know I live on crutches and I now have these 2 pretty ankle braces (http://whimsicalknitting.blogspot.com/2007/06/short-and-not-even-sweet.html)...If only I could find a smiley with 2 ankle braces, the crutches and hip replacements!!! LOL!!!
Honestly, are you on crutches? You okay?!

suzeeq
06-17-2007, 10:40 PM
Ahhh, I did read the first few posts, but then didn't look in after that.

sue

Braden
06-18-2007, 12:15 AM
Good. Lets say it got...unsavory. Not overly so, it just offended and hurt a few members, and I personally don't think that this is the kind of place for that. I'm just thankful that we do have such great moderators who work so hard to keep this forum a great, happy, and respectful place.

I'm just glad that it was moved.

brendajos
06-18-2007, 12:26 AM
Well, I didn't see what had apparently turned ugly. I didn't like some of the things I saw but I don't expect to respect everybody's opinions, just their right to have them.

However, what I am upset about is the fact that it was "moved" with no warning or explanation. I don't suppose there is a requirement to do so but since this is a new behavior around here it would have been nice.

I am going to censor the rest of my own comments on this because the thread wasn't mine to begin with so I don't have a real reason to be upset.

feministmama
06-18-2007, 12:52 AM
I started the Happy Gay Day thread. I just got back actually. I wanted to wish everyone good vibes and good feelings during the month of June traditionally observed as Pride month. Many cities across the country have a Pride weekend with parades and festivals. It is great fun at pride and is considered a family event. Dogs, kids and all kinds of people go. Gay, straight allies and anything else.

I also asked if anyone knew of rainbow patterns of designs (or I guess yarns) so I can make something for Pride next year.

I didn't think it was going to become a controversy. Some people post about all kinds of issues like thier pregnancies, or raising thier children. I forget who but someone wrote about punishing thier child by taking away everything the daughter cared about to the point of not letting her participate in a sport she was really good at and may have a professional future in becasue she was trash talking at her parents. So I didn't think wishing everyone good feelings on Pride was a bad thing.

I didn't get to see the "ugliness" that happened and I wish I could have. It may have been an opportunity for educating people. We have talked about racism on this forum in and kinds of issues. I would hope talking about homophobia and tolerance is something that will not be censored in the future. I don't with anyone ill will, I'm not mad at anyone, I just think we should be open and talk about it. Knitters are my favorite people and if I can't talk abotu these issues along with how to knit then I would be sad. I wouldn't leave. I would just be sad.

I say all this with great love and respect for all of you :heart::hug:

Sara
06-18-2007, 01:05 AM
I wasn't here for the bad stuff either.

You're a nice person, femmy! :hugs:

Braden
06-18-2007, 01:14 AM
Ditto.

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 01:26 AM
feministmama... I guess on some topics it's can be useful to think ahead and consider..what views are held in the community about these topics and so, what may arise here if said topic is raised.

Now MY comments here are in no way intended to suggest your topic was problematic but I will admit when seeing it I had thoughts in several directions...some of them at random...lovely to see gay pride support...what about heterosexual pride...gosh I bet some people here do NOT support free choice of sexuality for religious reasons...I know one university dept where it is almost impossible to get a job unless you ARE gay..reverse discrimination..

All these thoughts pinging in what may have been 5secs or less but from that list you can see controversial issues could arise and where they arise heat and offence are possible and dare I say, probable.

Hence, I chose not to get involved although I read the first half dozen posts before I went to bed.

Sometimes I've seen someone post OT and openly invite responses and then get a wee bit testy if responses went outside their expectation or comfort zone. Hmmmm..is that the original posters issue or the respondents issue..or..does it become a knitting community issue..??

I think many who didn't want OT posts felt the way they did because, rarely, do knitting topics of themselves cause offence.

But, talking about these issues philosophically can be interesting. :-)

HamburgKnitter
06-18-2007, 01:56 AM
I didn't see the thread turn ugly, and I'm sorry to hear that it did. It was obviously started in good-will.

However, I do have a suggestion to make to the mods, and I make it with the utmost respect for the excellent job you're doing: It might cause less bad feelings if instead of "moving" a thread without warning into your private moderator forum - which is basically deleting it to 99.999% of the members here - you lock it first with a brief explanation of why it's locked. Leave it there for a short period of time, then delete it if you feel the need. Or if it's such an inflammatory topic that you want to get rid of it immediately, then maybe leave an explanation in the forum where it was originally posted. This will cause alot less bad feelings, or feelings of being censored. My apologies if there is an explanation posted somewhere that I just haven't seen yet.

KnittingNat
06-18-2007, 02:16 AM
IMHO... sometimes for the benefit of others we should restrain ourselves. What do i mean by that? We all have different views here and different opinions. When i post "Happy Shavuoth" thread - i do not expect to get antisemitic responses. I want to wish everyone a happy holiday, even if it's not related to their religion and beliefs. So when a "Happy Gay Day" thread is posted, i think we should be positive about it. If you don't aprove this lifestyle - don't respond so the thread won't get ugly. Everytime i see a post or thread about SAHM, i restrain myself and never say anything, though i personally have feminist issues with that term. Have a great day, everybody!:hug:

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 02:59 AM
SAHM?

KnittingNat
06-18-2007, 03:04 AM
SAHM?
SAHM=staying at home mom

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 04:23 AM
Ahh..the life of the acronym.. thanks :-)

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 04:25 AM
And I have issue..well..not negatively as such..with the term "feminism"..so..that would be an interesting philosophical issue also. It wouldn't be my word of choice..I'd have "choicism" or similar :-)

Quiltlady
06-18-2007, 04:32 AM
I never saw the thread but if fighting began then maybe we do NOT need an OT forum afterall.:shrug:

KnittingNat
06-18-2007, 05:04 AM
And I have issue..well..not negatively as such..with the term "feminism"..so..that would be an interesting philosophical issue also. It wouldn't be my word of choice..I'd have "choicism" or similar :-)
Well, maybe i used a controversial term too... For "feminism" is many things. I think the belief that feminists are bitter women who can't find a man and never shave their legs is a bit old-fashioned :) I don't mean that you meant that... Now i've gone cross-eyed :roflhard: And yes, it's about choices in life, but i think it definitely relates to the issue of women rights and status... I will stop here and restrain myself :rofling:

mulene
06-18-2007, 06:11 AM
This world is filled with lots of different people, colours, religious beliefs, scientific beliefs, sexual beliefs and preferences, talents and intelligence, disabled and abled, chronically ill, dying and newborns.

Without all these things the world would be a very dull place. I am reminded of a line in a cheesy movie but it is a good line.

Morgan Freeman in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves responds to a little girl when asked why god painted him black something along the lines of "because Allah loves all colours of the rainbow and the world would be a very dull place if he did not"

That sentiment lives with me. Without all the colours of the rainbow and all the wonderful different cultures this world has (extreme and not) it would be a very dull place. I often think of Star Trek The Next Generation and think the world would really be dull if it were like that - everyone in the world agreeing on everything, no one bucking trends or rebelling and discovering new things.

The biggest thing that needs to be learned in this world is tolerance. It would serve many well to consider that word when posting on a forum, specifically this forum, when dealing with some truly wonderful people here who have one thing in common. We all love to knit. Without the various cultures and differences between us all, there would be a lack of creative patterns coming through from the people who post here.

I know Femi wanted a rainbow pattern - I was going to look something out for her because years ago before my brother came out to the rest of the family, he used to wear a very very long Dr Who like scarf that was completely rainbow blocked. It was fabulous and hand knitted. It was used as a scarf, as a blanket type thing when snuggling on the sofa, as a long tear wiper when we all would go to the movies and see a tear jerker movie (it would run the length of the row and 10 of us would wipe our eyes with it). Best of all it was used as a big cuddly arm to go around me when I was feeling blue or lonely or forgotten about.

I come from a catholic family and something learned along the way is to accept people as they are and embrace their differences.

I didn't get to see what was said, I meant to go back to the thread but then it was too late.

I thank the mods for stopping a potential nasty situation, and hope that anyone who was deeply opinionated and passionate on the matter is able to contain that passion, and remember we are all woven together in the world of knitting.

Think of us like a Noro scarf where the colours meld together and intertwine to make something beautiful.

:muah::hug:

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 06:34 AM
KnittingNat.. I had to share a laugh with you when I read your post. Personism..now THAT's! a term *grin*

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 06:36 AM
mulene...An element of your post reminded me of the 'show don't tell' concept. You never know, a post showing such a scarf and asking if those willing to support a 'day' would wear something similar that 'day' may have transpired differently..or..maybe not

Don't have me rolling around laughing with KnittingNat as my knees canna do it :-)

sig
06-18-2007, 06:43 AM
This world is filled with lots of different people, colours, religious beliefs, scientific beliefs, sexual beliefs and preferences, talents and intelligence, disabled and abled, chronically ill, dying and newborns.

Without all these things the world would be a very dull place. I am reminded of a line in a cheesy movie but it is a good line.

Morgan Freeman in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves responds to a little girl when asked why god painted him black something along the lines of "because Allah loves all colours of the rainbow and the world would be a very dull place if he did not"

That sentiment lives with me. Without all the colours of the rainbow and all the wonderful different cultures this world has (extreme and not) it would be a very dull place. I often think of Star Trek The Next Generation and think the world would really be dull if it were like that - everyone in the world agreeing on everything, no one bucking trends or rebelling and discovering new things.

The biggest thing that needs to be learned in this world is tolerance. It would serve many well to consider that word when posting on a forum, specifically this forum, when dealing with some truly wonderful people here who have one thing in common. We all love to knit. Without the various cultures and differences between us all, there would be a lack of creative patterns coming through from the people who post here.

I know Femi wanted a rainbow pattern - I was going to look something out for her because years ago before my brother came out to the rest of the family, he used to wear a very very long Dr Who like scarf that was completely rainbow blocked. It was fabulous and hand knitted. It was used as a scarf, as a blanket type thing when snuggling on the sofa, as a long tear wiper when we all would go to the movies and see a tear jerker movie (it would run the length of the row and 10 of us would wipe our eyes with it). Best of all it was used as a big cuddly arm to go around me when I was feeling blue or lonely or forgotten about.

I come from a catholic family and something learned along the way is to accept people as they are and embrace their differences.

I didn't get to see what was said, I meant to go back to the thread but then it was too late.

I thank the mods for stopping a potential nasty situation, and hope that anyone who was deeply opinionated and passionate on the matter is able to contain that passion, and remember we are all woven together in the world of knitting.

Think of us like a Noro scarf where the colours meld together and intertwine to make something beautiful.

:muah::hug:
Totally agree! :thumbsup:

KnittingNat
06-18-2007, 07:21 AM
KnittingNat.. I had to share a laugh with you when I read your post. Personism..now THAT's! a term *grin*
Good one :thumbsup::rofling:

mum2caden
06-18-2007, 08:21 AM
That's sad. It's just a thread asking for patterns and people have to turn it into an argument.

If you are so opposed to the topic, don't post. Live and let live- a person can't help who they are, and getting nasty about it helps no one.

msoebel
06-18-2007, 10:57 AM
I didn't see the thread.

Personally, for religious reasons, I would not be able to support "Gay Day", but I cannot imagine going on a knitting forum (when someone was simply sending everyone well wishes and asking for patterns) and saying anything unkind or negative:??. For religious reasons, I choose not to celebrate the solstices...but I wouldn't get up in arms if someone wished me a happy one.

Participants of this forum really should act like grown ups and realize that not everyone believes the same, and that it is okay to disagree WITHOUT becoming ugly to each other.

If we choose to act as children who cannot communicate respectfully to each other, then the moderators have a right to treat us as children and censor us.

Misty

Kaydee
06-18-2007, 11:02 AM
IMHO... sometimes for the benefit of others we should restrain ourselves. What do i mean by that? We all have different views here and different opinions. When i post "Happy Shavuoth" thread - i do not expect to get antisemitic responses. I want to wish everyone a happy holiday, even if it's not related to their religion and beliefs. So when a "Happy Gay Day" thread is posted, i think we should be positive about it. If you don't aprove this lifestyle - don't respond so the thread won't get ugly.

I completly agree. Its like we learn as kids: "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Its so basic but maybe we should practice that more.

HamaLee
06-18-2007, 11:15 AM
I did not see the thread after it got ugly, but I really hope my post was not one that started the ball rolling--I definitely didn't intend it that way. I expressed happiness for the day and recent legal rulings in my state, but I did also express some frustration about the argument on the other side of the ruling. I imagine I could have phrased things differently.

I saw a few posts after that, and they were sensitive and very respectful in their disagreement. I didn't respond any further, but at that point all I saw was people in disagreement who were very respectful in agreeing to disagree. Apparently things deteriorated...

I do wish that, as mentioned upthread, the thread had been locked with an explanation for a time before being deleted. I would have liked to see for myself what happened instead of the thread just disappearing (especially since I was part of the conversation). I even would have preferred for it to be called deleted or whatever instead of "moved" to this mysterious location none of us can access.

I do believe that it got ugly, but I didn't see it...so now I'm all worried that it didn't and mods jumped the gun, or let their own views dictate the thread, etc etc, conspiracy theories. I do NOT believe this is what happened, really! I trust the mods and love this site...I'm just saying I have a wild imagination, especially in that "what if..." area.

I am sad that things happened this way, since there have been many OT and rather controversial topics on these boards that have been...perhaps tense at times...but overall very respectful and useful. (Someone else upthread also mentioned these.) I just hate to think that certain controversial OT threads are "ok" and others "not" based on some criteria not made public to the rest of us...

I'm sort of whinging now and getting off-topic myself. I really really do believe the mods did what they thought was best and fair, I like this place and I like having something in common with so many people that I know have very different fundamental views from me. I would hate to feel like I needed to leave KH...what a bummer.

I'm babbling now, but I hope things continue smoothly! :hug:

KellyK
06-18-2007, 11:44 AM
Happy Pride Month, Femmy!! :hug: :heart: :hug:

Inis
06-18-2007, 11:55 AM
Had to be the "c" word. That'd pull 10 on MY fire-meter.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

Hey now! :)

I didn't see it either. Although it's unfortunate that certain topics on message boards deteriorate as they do, I find it educational to see every view - including hateful ones - on hot button issues. It's useful to know how far humankind has, and HASN'T come.

Silver
06-18-2007, 12:15 PM
I didn't see the so-called bad posts either, so I'm not going to comment on why the topic was pulled. Although I will take this opportunity to wish Femmy any anyone else a Happy Gay Day too, since I missed my chance earlier.

I think one pulled topic in a blue moon is a fantastic ratio for a wildly popular public forum such as KH. If any of you have visited other forums with any regularity, you know how rare KH truly is. It just goes to show how civil, smart, and considerate KHers really are!!

Sara
06-18-2007, 12:25 PM
HamaLee, your post was the first "dissenting opinion", but I didn't find it combative. I think things must have gone downhill afterward.

The mods here are not the type to jump the gun. I don't think they would have taken it down if they didn't think it was getting out of hand.

I think everyone needs to realize that this board is supposed to be here for everyone to participate. We're not here for confrontation. There was nothing in Feministmama's post that was "in-your-face" or offensive, she was celebrating her own life. It is unfortunate that others chose to use her happy occasion to be nasty.

Next time, I hope everyone takes a deep breath before posting and asks themselves whether they will be hurting others unnecessarily before they hit the reply button. :pray:

HamaLee
06-18-2007, 12:49 PM
Next time, I hope everyone takes a deep breath before posting and asks themselves whether they will be hurting others unnecessarily before they hit the reply button. :pray:

In total agreement!

My post was actually in agreement and support of Femmy, not dissenting. But I did take the moment to disagree with people on the other side of the fence, and I suppose I could have just left it at my support of Pride. I didn't mean to instigate others who disagreed with Pride.

But also, Silver, you're totally right about the frequency of this kind of thing ocurring on KH compared to other sites. (Which, of course, is why I love KH so much).

syndactylus
06-18-2007, 12:55 PM
On the topic of patterns, these (http://www.spunmag.com/article/050605hotpants]these) aren't meant for women, but you could probably alter the pattern into a skirt pretty easily, or make bloomers.

I think it's exciting. Wouldn't wear it, maybe a little more Mork than gay pride, ... but (but that's what I think about most rainbows - don't blame me, blame my childhood!) - definitely exciting.

I've been thinking about pink triangle lace shorts for some friends of mine. The same alterations would be necessary, and I'm nowhere even near close to actually trying it, and you probably wouldn't want to wear those in public either, but I'll update you if it ever happens.
I might just go with socks, for me.

PS happy pride!

Ingrid
06-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Just to be clear, the post was not moved due to anyone's opinion or preference in the matter. For myself, it was the use of the words 'sin' and 'bigot' that put me off. Even when 'respectfully' stated, these things hurt.

I loved Mulene's post and thanked her for it. It was eloquent and kept life in the knitting realm, which, as we all know, is where it belongs. :lol:

KnittingNat
06-18-2007, 02:08 PM
Just to be clear, the post was not moved due to anyone's opinion or preference in the matter. For myself, it was the use of the words 'sin' and 'bigot' that put me off. Even when 'respectfully' stated, these things hurt.

I loved Mulene's post and thanked her for it. It was eloquent and kept life in the knitting realm, which, as we all know, is where it belongs. :lol:

Oh... And i thought that my wish for nobody to get hurt at the Jerusalem Pride Parade like 2 years ago was the reason :think:... I started to get worried:shrug:... Now that we all see the reason, i think we understand much better what a great group of mods we have here :hug::hug::heart::heart::heart: I definitely never meant to hurt anybody's religious feelings, just stated the fact of violent reactions in my city to this kind of activities and wished for no violence. I think it's more important to love others just the way God made them, especially if they mean you no harm :muah:

feministmama
06-18-2007, 04:09 PM
On the topic of patterns, these (http://www.spunmag.com/article/050605hotpants) aren't meant for women, but you could probably alter the pattern into a skirt pretty easily, or make bloomers.

PS happy pride!

Thanks! This pattern is Awesom!!!!:muah:

Arielluria
06-18-2007, 04:15 PM
:roflhard:ROFLAMO........that's exactly what I was thinking......and what's funnier, about 5 minutes before finding this thread I was going to post something about crochet, but didn't because I was afraid to offend. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:whistle:



An inflammatory thread on a Knitting Forum???

What ever did I miss??? :whoosh:

Did someone make derogatory comments about using acrylics or mention crochet?

We really do need an OT Forum, don't we? :shrug:

Gosh, I miss all the fun around here! :pout:

amy
06-18-2007, 05:04 PM
:roflhard:ROFLAMO........that's exactly what I was thinking......and what's funnier, about 5 minutes before finding this thread I was going to post something about crochet, but didn't because I was afraid to offend. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:whistle:

Crochet, offensive?! :roflhard: ETA: Hey Lu, if you've got crochet on the brain, you'll love our newest forum (http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31).

letah75
06-18-2007, 05:41 PM
Ok, first I have to say:

Had to be the "c" word. That'd pull 10 on MY fire-meter.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

The "c" word....you mean crochet, right?!?

Now, Femmy, Happy Gay Day/month/year/century!!!

I love this site, and this is the first time I've every seen anything deleted....which is wonderful in itself. KHers are on the whole, respectful, caring, thoughtful people. I have the hope that the posts that were deemed derogitory, were just not typed correctly, perhaps they sounded ok in the person's mind, and just did not translate well as a post.

Here are a few patterns, I'm not sure what you were looking for as I did not see the post, but hopefully you like these.

http://www.sheeptoshawl.com/charity/archives/09-01-2005_09-30-2005.html

http://www.spunmag.com/article/050605hotpants <---I LOVE these by the way.

http://kimberlychapman.com/crafts/knit-gallery.html#rainbowscarf

http://queerjoe.com/patterns/Willie_Warmer_Pattern.htm

P.S. I missed the S.F. Pride parade this year, but I've gone every years ever since I can remember, as has my father (the priest), and our Bishop. Our church has a group of priests that march every year, and I love that at that parade priests march side by side with whoever is there. The parades I've been to (many over the years), are the epidomy of love and acceptance of any lifestyle...."alternative" or "normal".

Arielluria
06-18-2007, 05:52 PM
Even my online Bible study group gets in MAJOR online "fights", even though we are all mostly of same views (it's a paid forum)........and I like a good debate [whatever the one here was, I don't know] but I love a stimulating debate anyway and I have to refrain from getting into those (on any forum) merely to keep the peace........on the other hand, I am no wallflower, so I figure everyone has a right to my opinion and views ;)...........I'm learning to stick to the subject of the forum/group at hand and not get into major OT arguments that divide the body! I did it myself with one of my rescue groups, I started a topic which was not meant to inflame anyone, but as soon as someone was nasty to me, I gave as good as I got!

Anywho! I guess the point is.............if you want to argue (for example) politics don't do it here go find a political forum, same for religion, sex, etc............let's stick to arguing about knitting needles and yarns here eh?!?
;)

Peace!
:muah:

feministmama
06-18-2007, 06:39 PM
Here are a few patterns, I'm not sure what you were looking for as I did not see the post, but hopefully you like these.

http://www.sheeptoshawl.com/charity/archives/09-01-2005_09-30-2005.html

http://www.spunmag.com/article/050605hotpants <---I LOVE these by the way.

http://kimberlychapman.com/crafts/knit-gallery.html#rainbowscarf

http://queerjoe.com/patterns/Willie_Warmer_Pattern.htm


I love them!! Thanks so much! :muah:

jeanius80
06-18-2007, 06:55 PM
:teehee: i keep telling dh i am going to knit him the willywarmer pattern... xmas gifts for everyone! :mrgreen:

Arielluria
06-18-2007, 06:56 PM
One last thought on all this stuff.........if I may! There is too much divisiveness in this world as it is. Personally I don't care if one is a democrat or republican, black or white, gay or straight.........I don't want to hear about your sex life either way, so keep it to yourself or find a forum of people who DO want to hear about those subjects. I mean that in a nice way...........

The bottom line is, it's nice to have KNITTING bring us together from all walks of life, all religions, races, whatever! So don't let those parts of our lives divide us from our bretheren (sisteren?????? Is that a word?) of knitting addicts! ;)

How's that?!?
:flirt:

Case closed? On with the knitting! xxx

auburnchick
06-18-2007, 07:35 PM
I forget who but someone wrote about punishing thier child by taking away everything the daughter cared about to the point of not letting her participate in a sport she was really good at and may have a professional future in becasue she was trash talking at her parents.


:rofl: This was my thread. I wanted to clarify that it wasn't about punishing my daughter...it was about teaching her to be respectful and not take for granted everything she's been given and the sacrifices we have made for her (this was not done in response to trash talking...). ;-)

Back to the topic of this thread...

I think the most important lesson we can all take from this is that we should not judge one another, regardless of our beliefs (not that any of the posts I read sounded judgmental, mind you). It's so hard when you're typing responses online. Things get perceived in ways we sometimes don't mean them to. We don't have the benefit of seeing each others' faces when we're reading these posts, so we really don't know how our comments are being taken.

kristinw
06-18-2007, 07:41 PM
Those hot pants are hot! :drooling:

iza
06-18-2007, 08:23 PM
Wow... I'm away for 2 days and here's what I miss. :teehee:

I must say I find it sad that a simple reminder of Gay Day can raise controversy. :pout:

I didn't see the thread so I can't comment on it, but I want to express a concern I have. I don't mind people posting OT subjects about their kids, pregnancies, husbands, jobs, holidays in their religion, etc. But I would be extremely disappointed if we start deleting subjects about any "different lifestyles". :shrug: Maybe it's because I didn't see the thread so I don't exactly understand what's going on, but it worries me. Isn't it possible just to delete offensive posts, instead of entire threads?

KellyK
06-18-2007, 08:33 PM
I would be extremely disappointed if we start deleting subjects about any "different lifestyles". :shrug: Maybe it's because I didn't see the thread so I don't exactly understand what's going on, but it worries me. Isn't it possible just to delete offensive posts, instead of entire threads?

Iza... Ingrid addressed the reason the thread in question was deleted...

Just to be clear, the post was not moved due to anyone's opinion or preference in the matter. For myself, it was the use of the words 'sin' and 'bigot' that put me off. Even when 'respectfully' stated, these things hurt.

I loved Mulene's post and thanked her for it. It was eloquent and kept life in the knitting realm, which, as we all know, is where it belongs. :lol:

When I was a Mod, I remember a very few number of threads that were "retired" to the Mod Forum because they were going down a BAD path. Many times, if just a few posts to a thread are removed, the rest of the thread starts to feel fragmented... and the individual who made the post feels singled out or scolded, which is never the intention of Board admin.

Ive been a member of this community for a LONG time and have never encountered another where such respect exists. I completely trust Amy and the Mods to make good decisions about Board content. The fact that OT is allowed on a knitting board, and that it WORKS for us in general, is remarkable in my opinion. Like Silver said, if you consider the percentage of threads that go bad as compared to the percentage that illustrate the loving and tolerant community that we have developed here, it really IS amazing and helps me keep my faith in human nature.

:hug::heart::hug:

Knitting_Guy
06-18-2007, 08:50 PM
I glanced at the original thread and am not surprised that it disappeared as it was too close to politics.


I'm a live and let kind of person but frankly I am not interested in other people's sex life and don't want to know about it.

ekgheiy
06-18-2007, 09:19 PM
ek, why do you have a smiley with crutches?! What have i missed?! Ya know I live on crutches and I now have these 2 pretty ankle braces (http://whimsicalknitting.blogspot.com/2007/06/short-and-not-even-sweet.html)...If only I could find a smiley with 2 ankle braces, the crutches and hip replacements!!! LOL!!!
Honestly, are you on crutches? You okay?!
Hi Rebecca!! I'm actually off of the crutches now. I just haven't gotten around to changing my sig. :oops: Plus, I'm not yet at 100% (and I couldn't find a smiley with a brace.) ;) My left ankle is the culprit. But after about a month of PT, it's a lot better now. I have a nifty little brace and, because I can walk without it, I only use it in my exercise routines or whenever it gets to aching. I must say though ... I'll take my bum over yer's. Hehehehe ...:hug:

feministmama
06-18-2007, 09:46 PM
I glanced at the original thread and am not surprised that it disappeared as it was too close to politics.


I'm a live and let kind of person but frankly I am not interested in other people's sex life and don't want to know about it.

Interesting. I think bringing up gay pride is similar to talking about a het person's marriage. I don't think either of those things are about anyone's sex life but a celebration of love.

I just want to know that I can come to KH for knitting community and to know I am accepted for who I am just like anyone else. And if people can talk about their marriages, their children and other issues openly then I feel everyone has a right to speak openly as well.

feministmama
06-18-2007, 09:48 PM
:rofl: This was my thread. I wanted to clarify that it wasn't about punishing my daughter...it was about teaching her to be respectful and not take for granted everything she's been given and the sacrifices we have made for her (this was not done in response to trash talking...). ;-)

Back to the topic of this thread...

I think the most important lesson we can all take from this is that we should not judge one another, regardless of our beliefs (not that any of the posts I read sounded judgmental, mind you). It's so hard when you're typing responses online. Things get perceived in ways we sometimes don't mean them to. We don't have the benefit of seeing each others' faces when we're reading these posts, so we really don't know how our comments are being taken.

Oof. That did sound kinda judgmental didn't it. :doh:That post was supposed to be about using your post as an example of a hot button issue that is allowed to be discussed on KH forums. I'm soooooo sorry if it came out judgmental.

Knitting_Guy
06-18-2007, 09:52 PM
Interesting. I think bringing up gay pride is similar to talking about a het person's marriage. I don't think either of those things are about anyone's sex life but a celebration of love.


Edit: deleted comments. Don't want to get drawn into political issue here.

letah75
06-18-2007, 09:54 PM
Interesting. I think bringing up gay pride is similar to talking about a het person's marriage. I don't think either of those things are about anyone's sex life but a celebration of love.

I just want to know that I can come to KH for knitting community and to know I am accepted for who I am just like anyone else. And if people can talk about their marriages, their children and other issues openly then I feel everyone has a right to speak openly as well.


Amen Feministmama! I totally agree with you! Love and sex are not mutually exclusive. Love is rare enough, personally I think if you find it with someone more power to you....So many people lack it in their lives.

It is what makes the world go 'round...or so my mama said.

auburnchick
06-18-2007, 09:59 PM
Oof. That did sound kinda judgmental didn't it. :doh:That post was supposed to be about using your post as an example of a hot button issue that is allowed to be discussed on KH forums. I'm soooooo sorry if it came out judgmental.


No, it didn't. I was just concerned that maybe my post had really come across that way. A lot of people read and responded to my post, and it concerned me that maybe I had really come across as a vengeful mom.

And I did understand what you meant by using my post as an example to controversial topics.

We're okay. ;-)

:hug:

iza
06-18-2007, 10:03 PM
KellyK, believe me, I think the mods are doing a fantastic job and I am not doubting their judgment whatsoever. :hug: I am absolutely convinced they did not intend to censor a particular subject. I just fear that it could become difficult to post on some subjects, if all it takes to have a thread deleted is to use one or two hurtful words. I can see people with an "agenda" doing it on purpose... am I paranoid? :shifty:

I agree feministmama, I've seen so many posts about pregnancies (and I like reading them), I think it says a lot more about a person's sex life than talking about gay pride! :teehee:

Susan P.
06-18-2007, 10:26 PM
This is interesting.. I think the way issues are phrased can sometimes make them different than others. Do I think a 'pride' post is the same as a pregnancy post? Hmmm..tough call but again it depends on phrasing. It could be..it would not be for me if a socio-political edge was put into the post. Lesbian women DO fall pregnant of course :) Gay men do foster/adopt children of course (in some countries anyway).

Personally..I'm not totally comfortable with people living out their personal lives online..but that's partly to do with ethics. I must admit if my partner was online telling a bunch of people our personal issues and I hadn't given permission for that..I'd be hopping mad.

Perhaps it's best I respond to the non personal OT topics and avoid what sometimes causes me discomfort..which is the personal restraint we've been talking about :)

amy
06-18-2007, 11:22 PM
I didn't have time to compose this properly earlier, but I want to point out that I've moved the original post to public view again. It is locked, but in public view. The intentions of the mods were not to censor, but to curtail what they feared was too hot a topic and was getting unavoidably more provocative.

My feeling is that, although a couple of strong words were used, that they weren't used with hurtful intention by anyone towards anyone, certainly not towards any particular members, and in fact quite the opposite, I feel like people really made an effort to be careful to not hurt each other during discussion. I think we have an INCREDIBLE community here. :heart: I'm actually quite proud of the thread, in that it demonstrates this to me. I'm also proud of the mods for keeping such a hawk eye for possible hurt feelings. Everyone has acted with the absolute purest of intentions, and biggest heart, and it's wonderful. I love you all!
:muah:

Inis
06-19-2007, 12:16 AM
... if people can talk about their marriages, their children and other issues openly then I feel everyone has a right to speak openly as well.

I once worked with a gay man who placed on his desk a framed photo of himself and his partner on vacation. Some colleagues were quite upset -- never mind that they had pictures of their spouses in their office.

Something as simple as saying "my husband and I ..." or "I'm pregnant" is indeed sharing your sex life and your sexual orientation. It's very unfair, then, to ask gay and lesbian folks to never discuss their lives as it relates to their partners when those partners are significant in their lives.

GinnyG
06-19-2007, 09:33 AM
Something as simple as saying "my husband and I ..." or "I'm pregnant" is indeed sharing your sex life and your sexual orientation. It's very unfair, then, to ask gay and lesbian folks to never discuss their lives as it relates to their partners when those partners are significant in their lives.



ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not a big fan of controversial subjects but I feel people should be free to be "who they are" without fear of repriasal or judgement. A person should be able to be open (if they chose to) about their life without having to defend or explain their choice. But neither do I believe a knitting forum should be about furthuring a cause whether it is religion, politics or lifestyle.

letah75
06-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Personally, I kind of like "touchy" subjects. I think it's good to touch on things that make us uncomfortable because it causes us to think. And, well, thinking is underrated these days. :lol:

I have a co-worker who is, shall we say....not very tolerant of homosexuality. She has also never "known" anyone who is gay. My personal beliefs and her beliefs vary WILDLY from one another. But we got on the topic one day, and discussed it very calmly and maturly.

It was about a 2 hour discussion, and at the end, she came to the realization that her issues were religious, and while she didn't agree with a religious marriage cerimony, she didn't have an issue with a civil marrige for homosexual couples, as that was a "legal contract", and everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law.

While I still didn't agree with her, I was amazed/delighted that she was willing to discuss a topic that was such a touchy issue for her. And she was willing to revise her position...a little. Not because I pushed her to, but because the discussion made her think about why she held the beliefs she did.

Jeremy
06-19-2007, 12:40 PM
Interesting. I think bringing up gay pride is similar to talking about a het person's marriage. I don't think either of those things are about anyone's sex life but a celebration of love.

I just want to know that I can come to KH for knitting community and to know I am accepted for who I am just like anyone else. And if people can talk about their marriages, their children and other issues openly then I feel everyone has a right to speak openly as well.

I agree 100%. BTW, I want to see the rasta hat when you're through. I saw that Knitty episode.:hug:

Knitting_Guy
06-19-2007, 09:11 PM
Interesting. I think bringing up gay pride is similar to talking about a het person's marriage. I don't think either of those things are about anyone's sex life but a celebration of love.

I just want to know that I can come to KH for knitting community and to know I am accepted for who I am just like anyone else. And if people can talk about their marriages, their children and other issues openly then I feel everyone has a right to speak openly as well.

I don't disagree with you at all. I re-read what I wrote and could have worded it better as I think it communicated the wrong message. I was tired, what can I say?

My real point was that the topic itself lends more towards politics than anything else, and that's bound to stir up trouble as almost any political thread will.

I'm a member of a men's knitting forum and the vast majority of the members there are gay (I think there are only two of us who aren't). If it bothered me or I had a problem with that I wouldn't be a member there. They're a great bunch of guys.


Sorry if my poor wording sent the wrong message.

CarmenIbanez
06-19-2007, 09:58 PM
Personally, I kind of like "touchy" subjects. I think it's good to touch on things that make us uncomfortable because it causes us to think. And, well, thinking is underrated these days. :lol:



Me too, and it often gets me in trouble. I have a rule, I only makes friends with people who think differently from me. Most of my friends are conservative or religious, and even though I am neither, being friends with them, hearing them, and having them hear me make all of us better people. We have lost the art of discourse in this country. I feel like a vast majority of people no longer have the desire to talk and listen about things they don't agree with. We're more narrow minded than ever. And I say that NOT because some people disagree with my opinions on things, but that they aren't willing to discuss it at all. Does that make sense? It just makes me sad, because intellectual discourse is the foundation of true democracy and I see them both slipping away.

auburnchick
06-20-2007, 09:08 AM
Very interesting point...

I grew up in a small, conservative town. After my children were born, my dh and I lived in south FL for several years. Talk about a culture shock! I mean, I was a girl who had rarely driven down one-way streets. I'd never seen the things I saw down there. It really changed my perspective.

I remember a talk my mil and I had one time while shopping in an outlet mall near our house down there. She noticed someone with a lot of tattoos and commented about it...maybe something about my kids never getting one.

I told her that if that was the worse thing that my daughter did, and if she was a wonderful person who loved the Lord and served Him, and all she wanted to do was get a tattoo or get weird body piercings, then who cared? What matters most is the heart.

My dh, overhearing (and fearing) this conversation, eased away from us. :teehee:

But for me to say that was a HUGE step from where I had been only a few years before.

rebecca
06-20-2007, 09:59 AM
Hi Rebecca!! I'm actually off of the crutches now. I just haven't gotten around to changing my sig. :oops: Plus, I'm not yet at 100% (and I couldn't find a smiley with a brace.) ;) My left ankle is the culprit. But after about a month of PT, it's a lot better now. I have a nifty little brace and, because I can walk without it, I only use it in my exercise routines or whenever it gets to aching. I must say though ... I'll take my bum over yer's. Hehehehe ...:hug:

I was concerned so I had to ask ya about it! yes, I couldn't find a smiley with a hip replacement and crutches, LOL....or the ankle braces because as you can see (http://whimsicalknitting.blogspot.com/2007/06/short-and-not-even-sweet.html) I'm wearing them now, too! LOL, at least they are preventing ankle dislocation, but they sure are pretty...NOT

Sorry, didn't meant to hijack, I had asked ek about her crutches...

Yarnlady
06-20-2007, 10:24 AM
I didn't have time to compose this properly earlier, but I want to point out that I've moved the original post to public view again. It is locked, but in public view. A search didn't bring it up....where is it?

Silver
06-20-2007, 10:29 AM
It's in this OT forum

CarmenIbanez
06-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Experience is what gives us perspective. It concerns me when I talk to my husband about his students who live three hours from Los Angeles, four hours from Las Vegas, two hours from snow in the mountains and four hours from Phoenix and they've NEVER been out of the valley we live in. Un-believable! My son is a homebody, I don't think he'd ever leave the house if he didn't have to. He is spending his first year after highschool traveling. I did not give him a choice on that. If after going out in the world, he decides to live as a homebody that is fine, but he won't live his life with no perspective!

ekgheiy
06-20-2007, 03:00 PM
I was concerned so I had to ask ya about it! yes, I couldn't find a smiley with a hip replacement and crutches, LOL....or the ankle braces because as you can see (http://whimsicalknitting.blogspot.com/2007/06/short-and-not-even-sweet.html) I'm wearing them now, too! LOL, at least they are preventing ankle dislocation, but they sure are pretty...NOT

Sorry, didn't meant to hijack, I had asked ek about her crutches...
Oh the woes of our ankles, eh? :hug: :teehee:

letah75
06-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Experience is what gives us perspective. It concerns me when I talk to my husband about his students who live three hours from Los Angeles, four hours from Las Vegas, two hours from snow in the mountains and four hours from Phoenix and they've NEVER been out of the valley we live in. Un-believable! My son is a homebody, I don't think he'd ever leave the house if he didn't have to. He is spending his first year after highschool traveling. I did not give him a choice on that. If after going out in the world, he decides to live as a homebody that is fine, but he won't live his life with no perspective!


I agree! I think it's great that you are going to have your son travel.

I have friends who have widley varying beliefs. Some agree with me, some COMPLETELY disagree. I consider myself a traditionalist.....in that I think tradition and perspective are both important. I believe it's important to know/understand and sometimes follow traditions. However, I also believe that traditions have to change just as perspectives and society change. Just because something changes doesn't mean it's for the worst, just that it's different.

I will not have kids until I'm married, I will not live with someone prior to marriage. I would love to stay home with future children and raise them myself rather than put them into daycare....I would, I want to do it for me. Not because I think it's right for all, but it's right for me.

I love discussing politics, religion, law & order, mental health, garding, knitting, history, etc. with my friends. And I LOVE it when we disagree. I get exposed to new perspectives and ideas, my mind has even been changed once in a while. I've heard some say over the years "I want to know what the enemy thinks, so I talk to them."

If you disagree with me, think I'm wrong, think I'm misguided, you are NOT my enemy, you are my friend who happens to disagree with me. I want to know your opion because I value you, I value your thoughts, opinions, mores and values. We don't have to agree to live together, we don't have to share these things to be family. We don't have to see eye to eye to care/love one another. But we have to be respectful, nice, courteous, and caring to one another to be happy healthy and good.

I hope this makes sense. :-)

Suziblues
06-21-2007, 01:11 PM
No matter what a person's opinions are, they should be free to express them.
Think of all the men and women who have died to make our beautiful country free.
But with each freedom, comes a responsiblility. Re: We cannot yell FIRE in a theater unless there is really a fire! So if we all use our common sense, we can totally enjoy the differances in everybody.
I LOVE the differances in people, it is what makes the world go 'round!
My dad used to tell me not to get into any discussions regarding religion or politics. But I love a good discussion. My mind is totally open to new ideas.
And I always remember that I can be aggressive, without being rude.

I am kinda new here, and I just want to say that I love this site.:muah: sue

HamburgKnitter
06-21-2007, 01:55 PM
Experience is what gives us perspective. It concerns me when I talk to my husband about his students who live three hours from Los Angeles, four hours from Las Vegas, two hours from snow in the mountains and four hours from Phoenix and they've NEVER been out of the valley we live in. Un-believable! My son is a homebody, I don't think he'd ever leave the house if he didn't have to. He is spending his first year after highschool traveling. I did not give him a choice on that. If after going out in the world, he decides to live as a homebody that is fine, but he won't live his life with no perspective!

Hear hear. Travelling is so important, and I wish more young people (especially american young people) would travel more. You can learn so much from other cultures, discover new things, new food, new languages (new yarn 8-)), etc. I'm american, but I live in Europe and I feel really lucky to live in a place where I can jump in the car and be in several different countries within just a few hours!

HamaLee
06-21-2007, 02:29 PM
Hear hear. Travelling is so important, and I wish more young people (especially american young people) would travel more.

I agree, traveling can be such a great experience and chance to learn new things. Unfortunately for me, and I imagine for many other young people (American or otherwise) it's rather cost prohibitive. And socially, something reserved for "rich kids" :eyeroll:

When I was in high school I took advantage of a two-week exchange program to France at an incredible deal. Even then, with few financial obligations to speak of (I only had to pay for my car/insurance in high school as far as bills go) it still took SO MUCH EFFORT to scrimp and save every penny so I could pay for that trip (and I worked a LOT). I'm glad I was able to forgo new clothes, shoes, eating out and trips to the movies for months to pay for that trip...but with financial obligations now, it's sadly going to be a lot of years before I get that kind of opportunity again :pout: I just hope I won't have to wait until retirement!

HamburgKnitter I agree with you and it's so incredible for you to live somewhere with such diversity so close by. Totally jealous! :thumbsup:

I also think this thread has taken such a neat turn into an interesting conversation. Huzzah!

nsavage
06-23-2007, 04:48 AM
I so totally love this forum. I try to read a lot of the threads and posts but can't seem to squeeze in all. I think it is great that people share their lives on here. I don't get to talk to alot of people around where I live because my neighbors and friends live very busy hectic lives. I think the mods are great. I made a post about a pattern I found and couldn't quite get a good pic of it so I typed out the whole long bloody thing. I ended up getting a message from a mod about my post being edited because they said that I infringed on copyright laws. At first all I could think was "d@#*, I put alot of work into that" and that I was under the impression that to infringe on copyright laws was only if you were trying to make a profit. But then I realized that regardless of what I thought, the mods only did what they thought was right. In the future, I will refrain from typing out that whole long pattern and just post links to the freebies and such. And now it seems I digress from the topic. All I really wanted to say was that to be a mod here must be hard work and that I seems that they do their level best. I find it awesome that I can come on here and find all sorts of things of interest and varying viewpoints. And just how nice was that of Amy to put that topic back up for us to look through even though she didn't have to. I mean WOW how many other forums will actually take the time to do that? I have found that alot forums will just block someone from accessing... not me, but I have gone to some and wondered why I don't see any new posts by certain members. I hope that everyone stays so understanding on here and that no "bad" people who like to be overly mean ever come over to our happy little home here. Happy Every Kind Of Day To Everyone (that is to say any holidays or special days coming up that I don't know about) :) ;)

KellyK
06-24-2007, 12:29 PM
:aww:

CarmenIbanez
06-24-2007, 11:28 PM
Well I've been around now for two years and the quality of the peeps is totally as great as the first day I joined! :muah:

PaperGirl
06-26-2007, 04:14 PM
Well I've been around now for two years and the quality of the peeps is totally as great as the first day I joined! :muah:


OT!

I watched Starship Troopers the other night, and saw that the main girls name was Carmen Ibanez...

Inspiration? :thinking:

BinkyKat
06-26-2007, 08:45 PM
. Happy Every Kind Of Day To Everyone (that is to say any holidays or special days coming up that I don't know about) :) ;)

NSavage... great post! Love that last part:teehee::hug:

Well I've been around now for two years and the quality of the peeps is totally as great as the first day I joined! :muah:
CI...yes, I agree, the PeepQualityQuotient *PQQ* is off the charts!:cheering:

brownishcoat
06-27-2007, 04:31 PM
OT!

I watched Starship Troopers the other night, and saw that the main girls name was Carmen Ibanez...

Inspiration? :thinking:

It's from the book, not the movie. :thumbsup: