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View Full Version : No Knitting Needles Allowed-- Jury Duty


christine
06-19-2007, 02:18 PM
I have jury duty and they suggest we bring our needle work to do while we wait to be called into a trial.

The first time I went through security--not problem. The only sign up was about weapons. The second time I went through --- the grouchy lady took my knitting. When I mentioned I could fly with my knitting, she said, "This is not an airport." Did I mention the lady before me had her knitting that didn't get taken? And the lady behind me didn't have her knitting taken away either? In fact they didn't say a word.

Today I'm calling the county commissioners about this.

Christine

Jan in CA
06-19-2007, 02:23 PM
Well that doesn't seem fair! I wonder why yours was taken? Did you ask why they got through, but you didn't? Maybe needle type or something? She should have told you!

bip
06-19-2007, 02:31 PM
Argh, that sounds really frustrating! It reminds me of that line in Stand and Deliver, "Use a pencil, go to jail".

If they want MY civic participation, they let me knit while I wait!

PixieKnits
06-19-2007, 02:40 PM
Oh man that is awful!

Doodknitwit
06-19-2007, 03:00 PM
what a stinky thing to do!!! Do you get it back??? I'd have caused a ruckus I'm afraid..

Kaydee
06-19-2007, 03:04 PM
That's not fair at all that the person infront of you had knitting that didn't get taken away. I think I'd definitely call and inquire about this.

Ingrid
06-19-2007, 03:55 PM
I have to call next week to see if I have to go in. I wasn't sure if I could bring knitting with me.

Maybe I should call. If they took it away from everyone, then it'd be ok. Just you? :!!!:

DQ
06-19-2007, 04:07 PM
Ooooh I would be so angry about that :!!!:

:hug:

samm
06-19-2007, 06:03 PM
That's seems unfair. I hope you get a satisfactory answer soon. samm

Susan P.
06-19-2007, 06:21 PM
The only thing I can think of is that IF the three bags went through a scanner that metal needles would have stood out against wooden ones... Yes, very odd one person was asked to hand over and not all three.

dakatzmeow
06-19-2007, 08:09 PM
i'd be pretty hot under the collar, and definitely would've said something right then and there about the other two with knitting. and if she even LOOKED like she was going to take my Options, forget it, i would've gone back out to the car and stashed it for the day.

Knitting_Guy
06-19-2007, 08:16 PM
Sounds like somebody was on a little power trip. I'd file a formal complaint.

feministmama
06-19-2007, 08:30 PM
If I lived near you I would organize a knit in :waving:

Nana
06-19-2007, 10:03 PM
Did you have those shiny, life threating Addia needles????? :tap:Huh????...Well did ya, come on come clean.......If ya did, she was a knitter, and just wanted to fondel them. I would be pressing charges myself.... Somthing is not right there

ArtLady1981
06-20-2007, 01:48 AM
I woulda turned on my heels and said: "Well then, I will be back later" and taken my knitting home...or to the car...and came back later. Noooo waaay would she get her mitts on my knitting. :pout:

DID YOU GET IT BACK????

christine
06-20-2007, 01:55 AM
My needles were metal Inox circulars with an almost finished top down sweater. I made the little man who was working with her promise that I would get it back . . . they do have a weapons locker.

When I came back down, it was just sitting on the cart where anyone could to taken it. If my knitting was so dangerous that a juror couldn't have it, then why was it where a criminal could have taken it.

Since the ladies with me were my new best friends (we were all trapped together in the waiting room) I didn't want to nark our a fellow knitter.

I did write all of the county commissioners this AM. I haven't gotten a reply yet. If I don't hear anything, I'm writing the newspaper.

For my next time down to the court house, I will be taking a very dangerous laptop. Someone could whack someone over the head with it or even take my cords to strangle someone.

If I hear anything from the commissioners, I'll let you all know

redwitch
06-20-2007, 07:30 AM
It must be really scary to live in a country where they have scanners for weapons at schools and courthouses, police have to carry guns, and where something like knitting needles is actually dangerous.

beckyrhae
06-20-2007, 09:55 AM
I had this happen to me as well. I had cleaned out my knitting bag and packed it very nicely before going to court. I stood in a long, long line and when my turn finally came they TOOK my needles! Of course the needles were being used at the time, so they took the project too and locked it away in a small locker. One of the guys working security was very polite, his grandmother was a knitter and he understood how careful he had to be with my project. I offered them my scissors as well, which they said were so small I could keep them... Ummm... OK. I didnt understand at all. Anyhow... when I came down for lunch and packed everything away in my knitting bag I discovered one of my ebony dpns was broken:grrr:I calmly asked to speak with the man that put everything in the locker and he did not realize what he had done! The other officer was at lunch and I just wanted to cry!! When I came back from lunch I told the other officer what happened and he truely simpathized with me. He was very sweet and offered to PAY FOR NEW NEEDLES. I turned him down, and said his buddy broke them, he should pay or at the very least say he was sorry! I made a complaint with the Judge later... he didnt see a problem with knitting in court either. It did not help, you still cant take knitting needles into court.

Long story short, about 3 weeks later I recieved a small package in the mail containing ebony DPNs and a note from Officer Taylor. The fella that broke my needles gave him money and he, with the help of his grandmother bought me new needles! They were one size larger than the ones broken, but I didnt have that size so all was good! His grandmother now knits with our knitting group fairly often!

Yarn Doc
06-20-2007, 10:32 AM
Becky, that is the sweetest story!!! It renews my faith in humanity.

I had jury duty, but I didn't even bother to bring my knitting. I know that Chicago police could give a rat's arse about my knitting. I just brought a big fat book.

christine
06-20-2007, 11:22 AM
What a nice officer. He sure bets the we aren't the airport security person here in Spokane.

KnittingNat
06-20-2007, 04:09 PM
It must be really scary to live in a country where they have scanners for weapons at schools and courthouses, police have to carry guns, and where something like knitting needles is actually dangerous.
It's the same here... Every store you enter - your bag is checked... That's our every day reality and we just have to live with that. When i'm abroad, i always notice "Hhhmm.. they haven't checked my bag... No guard here...". You get so used to it you notice when it isn't there:shrug:

Stiney
06-20-2007, 04:19 PM
It must be really scary to live in a country where they have scanners for weapons at schools and courthouses, police have to carry guns, and where something like knitting needles is actually dangerous.

It's the same here... Every store you enter - your bag is checked... That's our every day reality and we just have to live with that. When i'm abroad, i always notice "Hhhmm.. they haven't checked my bag... No guard here...". You get so used to it you notice when it isn't there:shrug:


Most court houses and schools DON'T have metal detectors here. Policemen here carry guns because our nation allows people to carry hand guns, therefore they need them for self-protection in the line of duty. There are guards in some city stores, but they are looking for shoplifters.

No one says "knitting needles are dangerous." People see the potential in them for danger (pointy, string for garroting, etc.) and they see potential for lawsuit. Here, I think the problem is that there were metal detectors, and the knitting needles were metal. The other knitters, who were allowed to keep their knitting, may have been using plastic, resin, or bamboo needles, which wouldn't set off the alarm.

I don't think these things add up to scary, just different.

Calamintha
06-20-2007, 09:10 PM
If you are going to jury dutry there is a good chance you will be asked to go through a metal detector. So first thing I would suggest is take wooden needles. Metal ones will automatically set it off. When I went the last time I took a sock on wooden dpns--figured that was the safest and sure enough I had no problem. Were the two people who got through with knitting needles using wooden needles?

christine
06-21-2007, 12:50 AM
All of us had metal needles-- circular that is. I had only one set with my sweater on it. The lady before me had 6 sets in her bag with her.

I fly quite often and have never had problem with my needles on the plane, so I never thought twice about taking my knitting. The lady did tell me I could bring a crochet hook, but NO Knitting Needles.

I don't think it was the issue that they were metal or not. All the bags are x-rayed while we all are walked though metal decectors. Wooden and plastic one would also show up on the x-ray.

Luckily, my call group hasn't been needed again this week. I still have to call in each night to see if they need us.

redwitch
06-21-2007, 01:38 AM
By dangerous, I don't mean it's inevitable that someone will be killed if needles are in someone's bag, but obviously they are being confiscated because they could be used as a weapon. I didn't mean that there's no justification for police carrying guns, but it's the fact that there is a need and anyone might have a gun that I thought must be scary to live with. I remember in Asian airports it was very noticeable (to me, where it isn't done) that there were soldiers walking around with machine guns. Of course, it's slightly less intimidating when they are all about 8 cm shorter than I am!
Wooden/bamboo items would show up on a scanner, but metal ones are more obvious and worrying to the (human) scanners. I would take wooden/bamboo ones and either put them in a pencil case with a couple of pens (for the scanner) or in my pocket. If circs, definitely the pocket.
Sarah

Jan in CA
06-21-2007, 10:14 AM
By dangerous, I don't mean it's inevitable that someone will be killed if needles are in someone's bag, but obviously they are being confiscated because they could be used as a weapon.
Sarah

It happens, but it's actually pretty rare. I've never had a problem with any needles so far.

brendajos
06-21-2007, 10:33 AM
okay did the suggestion to bring your needle work come in the jury duty notice? can you take the letter with you to show where it says to bring your work with you?

Suziblues
06-21-2007, 12:08 PM
A few years ago I had to go to traffic court to pay some tickets. My mom came with me. She brought her knitting with her. She was 84 years old at the time. They would NOT let her bring her knitting in the court with her!

What did they think an 84 yr. old lady was gonna do? Attack the judge with her knitting? lol!

sue

letah75
06-21-2007, 12:42 PM
I'm finding this all interesting. Our Court house will allow knitting needles providing they aren't metal or they are circs.

What I find so funny is I knit with my probation kids, (gang bangers, violent offenders, mentally ill, etc), many of my kids are considered "dangerous", and they are all WAY bigger than me. I am 5'2" I think the shortest boy is 5'9" and the tallest is 6'3". I give them 24" metal knitting needles, let them take them home (on the bus), and it's fully ok. But let's not let the people of the jury have them, or people on the plane......it kills me.

GinnyG
06-21-2007, 12:54 PM
A few years ago I had to go to traffic court to pay some tickets. My mom came with me. She brought her knitting with her. She was 84 years old at the time. They would NOT let her bring her knitting in the court with her!

What did they think an 84 yr. old lady was gonna do? Attack the judge with her knitting? lol!

sue

:passedout::passedout::passedout:
We've really gone TOOOOOOOOOO FAR

Jan in CA
06-21-2007, 01:47 PM
Okay..this is somewhat off topic and I've mentioned it before, but.... when we go to Disneyland (we have passes) they check women's bags, but do NOT check men's pockets. So basically a man could carry knives, box cutters, small guns or whatever into Disneyland, but I am dangerous. Whatever!:scratchinghead::teehee:

BostonBecca
06-21-2007, 10:34 PM
Hmm, I'm going to be going to a lot of courthouses in NH starting in August. I'll ask the guards at each of them about this just so I can know. Since I am going to be working in each of them however, I imagine I will just have a separate bag for my knitting and leave it in my car.

I think it would be a good idea to have your project in a separate little or big bag for jury duty, depending on the project and be able to leave that with the security guards, that would avoid the problem of the project getting dirty, stitches slipping off, needles being broken(maybe), etc.

The fact is that you might not be planning on doing anything dangerous with your needles, but another person could use them that way. I've worked with and will be working with people accused of crimes, and many people in the justice system as defendants are mentally ill and some are just dangerous. Many are not really either of those things, including in the courthouse, but someone could get ahold of your needles and use them in a threatening manner. I don't even bring a pen with me when I go into the lockup to see clients a lot of the time, unless I need them to sign something, that could be a weapon in the wrong hands too.

ready2knit
06-22-2007, 12:08 AM
:gah:What's so frustrating to me is the inconsistency withing the same building!!

When I did jury duty I had no problems with my knitting.

At the beginning of next month DH and I will be in civil court as defendants, and I keep wondering if it would be allowed/acceptable/wrong to knit while sitting at the defendants' table while court is in session. Like many of you I find knitting very calming, and since I'm too chicken to take prescription meds, it's the only thing that keeps the anxiety at bay. I know I'll be a bag of nerves those three days. Perhaps all of you could knit for me and send my calming vibes????

redwitch
06-22-2007, 12:37 AM
Yes, but in situations where pens and sharp pencils are allowed. knitting needles should be too. R2K, I strongly advise you not to knit or read, I am sure your lawyer will tell you the same.

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 06:55 AM
I haven't done jury duty nigh onto 10 years...( And, at that, it was a federal drug case...at the federal court house down town..and, no, I wasn't selected for the panel- I made it clear that I was one that firmly believed that if the State/ Feds had enough probable cause to get it THAT far into the process, then hands down, the defendants were guilty...not to mention the fact that one of my cousins is a Probate/Family Law judge in Dodge City..)

Anyway, last time I was at the county courthouse down town, I was there with a friend of mine who was there to support one of her buddies that got in trouble...anyway, it was a good thing that I didn't have my allumium crochet hooks with me that day...and had one of those Susan Bates crystalites hooks...The person running the detector machine told me they weren't even allowing metal crochet hooks in the court room!- That was what? In January 2005 or so?? - So, yeah, I can definitely can understand where everyone's coming from on that one..

Nita

BostonBecca
06-22-2007, 07:00 AM
In the federal courthouse in Boston you can't bring in electronics unless you work there and have a security badge. My bag still had to go through the metal detector and so did I, but I could bring in my cell phone because I worked there for a summer. It's intense. They do have cubbies where you can leave your stuff with security though.

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 07:05 AM
In the federal courthouse in Boston you can't bring in electronics unless you work there and have a security badge. My bag still had to go through the metal detector and so did I, but I could bring in my cell phone because I worked there for a summer. It's intense. They do have cubbies where you can leave your stuff with security though.

Oooh now, that I didn't know...anyway, I live in Wichita,KS...(Yeah, where all the BTK stuff happened..) Anyway, when I did federal jury duty in 98...I didn't bring anything to crochet, I'd brought some cross stitching with me that time....And, I have no clue what the set up is at the county court house..( Which,coincidentally is across the street from the Federal Court House!)

Nita

Stiney
06-22-2007, 10:00 AM
Eep, good to know. My jury duty was well more than three years ago at this point, so as soon as they figure out I'm a resident, I'm ripe for a summons.

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 10:04 AM
Eep, good to know. My jury duty was well more than three years ago at this point, so as soon as they figure out I'm a resident, I'm ripe for a summons.


Well, I've lived in Wichita all my life...with the pattern as it seems to be, I'm due again for Jury duty next year...- but, we'll wait and see if the pattern holds. I'm not holding my breath!!! LOL...Anyway, off I go, and try and find something to make- crochet or knit for my cousin's little girl, Kelly Janelle....(Want to get a little ahead- and have some winter gear made for her..)

Nita

Stiney
06-22-2007, 10:17 AM
Well, I've lived in Wichita all my life...with the pattern as it seems to be, I'm due again for Jury duty next year...- but, we'll wait and see if the pattern holds. I'm not holding my breath!!! LOL...Anyway, off I go, and try and find something to make- crochet or knit for my cousin's little girl, Kelly Janelle....(Want to get a little ahead- and have some winter gear made for her..)

Nita

I live in Boston right now, so I meant to quote BostonBecca's post. I had jury duty as a college freshman in Boston, but that was in early 2002. Massachusetts calls people very 3 years. :pout:

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 10:25 AM
I live in Boston right now, so I meant to quote BostonBecca's post. I had jury duty as a college freshman in Boston, but that was in early 2002. Massachusetts calls people very 3 years. :pout:


Oooh I'm sorry! I didn't mean to interupt your conversation with Becca...And, you know, it's not a bad thing to learn something new every day...and quite honestly,( I didn't know that about Massachusetts!!) I have NO clue what the pattern is, here in Wichita (Sedgwick County)...but, I could be totally wrong about the 10 year thing...but, I'm pretty sure that they call people for jury duty out of their list of registered voters, though...(Not sure if it's the same all over, but, that's how it's done here in Wichita..)

As for pouting, well, I certainly don't relish having to go in when called, but, I do because it's the least I can do for my community- to serve when called...:shrug:

Nita

BostonBecca
06-22-2007, 10:33 AM
I'll get called at some point (surprised I haven't already, I've been back in Boston for three years now), but it is extremely unlikely that I will ever be picked, as a public defender. Lawyers hardly ever get chosen and people who work in criminal law are least likely out of all lawyers I think.

Stiney
06-22-2007, 10:37 AM
Massachusetts uses students, as well. I was a registered voter in New Jersey, but because I was a Massachusetts resident for most of the year, they called me. I pout because it is a huge disruption, and most states don't make it easy despite compensation laws and so on.

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 11:54 AM
Massachusetts uses students, as well. I was a registered voter in New Jersey, but because I was a Massachusetts resident for most of the year, they called me. I pout because it is a huge disruption, and most states don't make it easy despite compensation laws and so on.

Oh,yeah, it's true about it being a disruption, and, some employers aren't exactly enthused when their workers have to take off for jury duty! (If I'm not mistaken, back in 88, when I had my first go around with jury duty, I THINK the compensation was less than $15 at the time- and, that was for jury duty at the county court house..but,when I did federal jury duty, I THINK the compensation was $45 or so...- but, it took a month to get the check, on both occaisions if I remember correctly..- I could be wrong, as it's been so long ago!!)

Nita

HamaLee
06-22-2007, 12:09 PM
Massachusetts uses students, as well. I was a registered voter in New Jersey, but because I was a Massachusetts resident for most of the year, they called me. I pout because it is a huge disruption, and most states don't make it easy despite compensation laws and so on.


Mass is all kinds of crazy/disorganized. I've lived here all my life. In college my permanent residence and voter registration was at my parents' house and just my school mail went to my school mailbox. But I got called for jury duty at my parents' address AND my school address for different court districts within a month of each other.

It was such a pain in the *** to sort out the bungle of being called in two locations. And then, I got ANOTHER summons a few months later! Yet another PITA...good thing I kept the paperwork from Time #1 in a safe place to prove that they couldn't call me for another 3 years. Oy

And of course, it's been more than three years since all that and I've yet to be called again. (But I bet I just jinxed myself :teehee:)

Stiney
06-22-2007, 12:17 PM
Hama, I held on to mine for a long time after it was useful. :teehee: I got called in NJ within my Massachusetts 3-year window, but they wouldn't recognize it. They did recognize that I was going to be out of state for the next year, though, and I was excused.

Nitaks2
06-22-2007, 12:28 PM
I don't think I have any of that old paper work... When I moved back home to take care of Dad and his wife, I lost A LOT of stuff..and, after I moved back home nine years ago, I weeded through what Dad's wife and that thieving land lady I had didn't take from me...I threw out quite a few acordian files of old papers I didn't need anymore..(I'm pretty sure my old subpoenas were in one of those files...)

Come to think of it, it wasn't long after I did Federal Jury Duty, I was summonsed to do County Jury Duty...all I had to do was take those papers down town and I was excused..(I'd forgotten about that....)

Anyway...going to go back and nose around to find something to stitch on...( Just can't seem to find anything that captures my fancy enough so that I won't frog it..)

Nita

figaro
06-22-2007, 01:15 PM
I had been called when we lived in CA a number of times but have never gone because it would prove to be a financial hardship cause I have 3 small kids at home. That will be the case here too whenever they call me here in NJ. And since my youngest is 18 months it will be a while until they are all in school!:cheering:

letah75
06-22-2007, 01:44 PM
I live in CA and they call you up from the voter registration and the DMV records. I've been called up twice, and I've not been picked....and I can't imagine I ever will be picked to be on a jury.

I would love to be on jury, since I'm a government employee I get paid for jury duty, I just have to give the $5.00 check the Court gives me for my time back to the assesor's office.

DragonsChest
06-22-2007, 04:47 PM
I'd take in pencils with stoppers on the eraser ends, and if my "knitting needles" are questioned, I'd push the knitting up to the end, whip out a crossword book, and ask them if they wish to take away my pencils?

DC -- a very sneaky knitter. Also a very sad knitter, that my country has sunk to this level. :pout:

Knitting_Guy
06-22-2007, 05:14 PM
I get excused every time I am called to jury duty. All I have to do is tell them (fill out the stupid card) that I don't own a car (which is quite true). They don't want to pay cab fare so they excuse me.

cmk
06-22-2007, 05:27 PM
Last summer, DS was doing an internship and he was told he couldn't bring glass bottles into the courthouse. (They did let him take the Orangina in that day.)

I don't know how often we get called for jury duty in NJ, but it seems like I get a notice every time I turn around.

Carolyn

BostonBecca
06-22-2007, 05:47 PM
It's not just glass bottles in MA either. At the Boston Municipal Court/ Juvenile Court downtown I know you can't bring in glass bottles, and you can't bring coffee in either.

It's any drink in federal courthouses.

clb1968
06-22-2007, 10:16 PM
Both times I have been called , I have had a child under 5 that I was the sole caretaker for , so I was excused. First time I was called was in 1988 and my son was about 2 years old, I did not get called again until 2003 or 2004, so my daughter was 2 or 3. My children are 14 years apart.
I will be excused if called again I am sure,for medical, I am type 1 diabetic and take insulin,and must eat at certin times, so a long wait to be selected or not is not a good thing.

Nitaks2
06-23-2007, 01:19 AM
Both times I have been called , I have had a child under 5 that I was the sole caretaker for , so I was excused. First time I was called was in 1988 and my son was about 2 years old, I did not get called again until 2003 or 2004, so my daughter was 2 or 3. My children are 14 years apart.
I will be excused if called again I am sure,for medical, I am type 1 diabetic and take insulin,and must eat at certin times, so a long wait to be selected or not is not a good thing.


I'm diabetic, as well, but, a type 2...in fact, I had a Dr's appointment yesterday, and she upped my Insulin (Lantus) to 15 units.( I had been taking 10 units Since the end of Apri- along with the oral Anti- Diabetic meds I already take..), and doubled my Lexapro..(From 10 mg daily to 20 mg daily...) On top of antibiotics for a hellishly painful infection I've got jumping..ugh...if it's not one thing, it's another...Since the dosage of Insulin I take isn't that much, and, so far I haven't had any blood sugar crashes, but, it HAS gone as high as 320,though..(Which is better than it had been prior TO being put on Lantus,though..) Although, I wonder how that would work...if they'd excuse me for being here taking care of Dad???

Nita

Maitai
06-23-2007, 02:03 AM
After deleting a 3 page thought on this, I decided to keep it a bit simple and respond that we should not be upset about taking them away, but be upset if they do not. They can be used as weapons and if they were not taken from me, as well as everybody else around me, I would not feel safe in court or anywhere else where violence can occur. It is sad, but in the world that we live in, we must take every precaution necessary to ensure our safety. Until humanity changes it, we have to deal with it.

redwitch
06-23-2007, 07:49 AM
But the annoyance is that they are NOT being taken away from everyone: of 3 knitters I think the story was that only one person had them taken! Oh boy this is getting off topic... when I was called for jury duty a couple of years ago they pulled the required number of names out of a box to select who would actually serve... then decided they wanted one more and instead of a random choice... they asked for a volunteer! Scary... a person who would volunteer is more likely to be a certain kind of person and have bias toward a certain verdict than a random 'peer'. I do forensic science so hopefully I am likely to be excluded by the defence in future!! How interesting that it's usually the defence who do not want people familiar with the material to be on the jury... it really reinforces the perception for people that the defence is always seeking to misinform or cast unjustified doubt on expert evidence.

Nitaks2
06-23-2007, 09:24 AM
But the annoyance is that they are NOT being taken away from everyone: of 3 knitters I think the story was that only one person had them taken! Oh boy this is getting off topic... when I was called for jury duty a couple of years ago they pulled the required number of names out of a box to select who would actually serve... then decided they wanted one more and instead of a random choice... they asked for a volunteer! Scary... a person who would volunteer is more likely to be a certain kind of person and have bias toward a certain verdict than a random 'peer'. I do forensic science so hopefully I am likely to be excluded by the defence in future!! How interesting that it's usually the defence who do not want people familiar with the material to be on the jury... it really reinforces the perception for people that the defence is always seeking to misinform or cast unjustified doubt on expert evidence.

I wouldn't be TOO suprised if that were the case...even though I only have a high school education, I'm utterly fascinated with Forensics...and how it goes hand in hand with what goes on behind the scenes in a criminal investigation and later when a case goes to trial...

And, yeah, that IS scary when they ask for a volunteer, rather than choose someone at random...Like I said, me, personally, unless DNA says other wise, if a case has enough evidence behind it TO get that far into the process, at least, to me, I'm going to side with the winning horse, as it were- The State...(Sometimes that's not the case...but, also there's the fact that DNA doesn't lie,either!)

Nita

mirenj
06-23-2007, 11:28 AM
Did you extra sharpen your needles? maybe that was the reason, she considered them a threat to national security!!!!!!:roflhard:

Nitaks2
06-23-2007, 11:43 AM
Did you extra sharpen your needles? maybe that was the reason, she considered them a threat to national security!!!!!!:roflhard:


ROFL...At the time, I wasn't even a knitter...just a mere crocheter!!- Kinda makes ya wonder,doesn't it??

Nita

BostonBecca
06-23-2007, 01:19 PM
This is getting off topic, but I am just going to say one thing about this, and this is not meant to offend anyone, but there is no way it is conscionable to participate in the justice system while you believe that just because a case goes to trial the person is guilty. That is contrary to everything the justice system in our country is based on, including the fundamental principle of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The level of evidence is needed to avoid a dismissal is VERY low. No one who believed the above should ever be on a jury and I am glad the people who said they believe this realize they should never be on a jury. I just can't believe that people believe the person accused is always guilty if the case gets to trial with the number of acquittals and convictions that have been overturned by DNA recently.

I would suggest checking out the Innocent Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/) if you believe that and look at the quantum of evidence that existed against many of these people and see if you can still believe that the person is always guilty when the state charges them and brings them up for trial.

I've been a victim of crime (my apartment was robbed) and I have close family and personal friends who have been victims of violent crime. I still don't believe that every person charged is guilty.

There are guilty people out there who don't get convicted because of the rights we as citiziens have, but that is the way our system was set up, to but the burden on the state, and anyone who disagrees with that principle should never be on a jury.

salos
06-23-2007, 01:23 PM
Christine, I've never been called for jury duty. That's been a mild disappointment in my life. Should I just be grateful I don't have to deal with hassles like what you described?

Becca, I also appreciate Innocence Project.

Stiney
06-25-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm sorta bitter, Salos. I got called as a college freshman. I had to head into downtown Boston...the day that the Patriot's were having their Superbowl parade. I also didn't bring a book or schoolwork to do, and I missed like three classes.

BostonBecca, I had a professor who blamed shows like Law & Order for mentalities like that. His point was that they always get the right guy on cop shows. You are supposed to side with the cops, even if they are being a little on the :hmm: side of legality. I don't know how true it is, but it did make me stop and think.

BostonBecca
06-25-2007, 11:16 AM
Thanks guys for the interesting comments.

I did a report on the Innocence Project for my Homicide Investigations class in my last semester of law school and it was very informative. They are doing a great job of really highlighting the problems with some ways people are prosecuted. In some instances, they have also brought to light conflicting evidence that can help find the real guilty party.

That must have been such a hassle to go downtown during the Patriots victory parade!

I think Law and Order is a decent show, I watch it as do most of my friends from law school. It can be frustrating to me however, because they do always seem to get the right person and it is a little one sided many times. It still is good entertainment but it is just that. They have the luxury of writing the storylines to get an outcome for the state based on evidentiary exceptions and bending the rules in certain instances. Still, I find that it can raise interesting legal questions that I then find the real laws on legal research sites. The legal world, especially in criminal law, is a strange and murky place.

To bring this back on topic, thank god I can have my knitting while watching Law and Order! It's one of my favorite things to knit to, I cast on for Thermal last night watching a Law and Order episode! It's going to be a long and slow slog.

Crafty_Curmudgeon
06-25-2007, 03:01 PM
:roflhard:Well Christine, was it that "guilty" look on your face??!!!
Gee, you should have been on the jury in Washington, D.C. where the man was suing the dry cleaners for $54 million for losing his pants. Perhaps you could have knitted him some new ones while listening to his ridiculous case!:think:
Give 'em "heck"

Quiara
06-25-2007, 04:51 PM
One thing that bothered me in this thread is the way "mentally ill" is thrown about. I am mentally ill: major depressive disorder, recurrent with psychotic features as well as DID. Never have I tried to kill anyone with my knitting implements - or anything else, for that matter. I understand that yes, there are dangerously ill people out there, but there's such a stigma attached to mental illness and I find it deplorable. I'm very open about my mental health because I think that being embarrassed about it makes about as much sense as being embarrassed about having diabetes or epilepsy.

I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine. I tend to notice when people talk pejoratively about the mentally ill. Sorry to be so OT; it just gets to me.

More on topic: I've been able to take my knitting needles when I was made to attend a defensive driving class (speeding ticket - oops!). It was held at the local court house in an unused court. I was working on socks for a friend who'd had some truly bad luck and I thought they might make her feel better. They certainly made me feel better about the class!

Nitaks2
06-25-2007, 07:02 PM
One thing that bothered me in this thread is the way "mentally ill" is thrown about. I am mentally ill: major depressive disorder, recurrent with psychotic features as well as DID. Never have I tried to kill anyone with my knitting implements - or anything else, for that matter. I understand that yes, there are dangerously ill people out there, but there's such a stigma attached to mental illness and I find it deplorable. I'm very open about my mental health because I think that being embarrassed about it makes about as much sense as being embarrassed about having diabetes or epilepsy.

I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine. I tend to notice when people talk pejoratively about the mentally ill. Sorry to be so OT; it just gets to me.

More on topic: I've been able to take my knitting needles when I was made to attend a defensive driving class (speeding ticket - oops!). It was held at the local court house in an unused court. I was working on socks for a friend who'd had some truly bad luck and I thought they might make her feel better. They certainly made me feel better about the class!

I'm diabetic, AND have clinical depression...two things I have NO reason to feel any shame to hide, and I certainly won't deny it as it's the truth!

Go ahead and slam me and belittle me for being HONEST in my opinion...I certainly resent being made to feel as if I'm a moron or not quite mentally there because of that honest opinion..or whatever..I'll say THIS about it, opinions are like rectums..everyone's got one...and let it go at that..

As for the snooty "Bertha Better than you" attitude, I get the point, I'm NOT welcome here and WILL NOT certainly be back....if THIS is how new people are treated...

As for being the victim of a crime...each and every day, I pay for being a crime survivor...I survived being raped and molested by my own father and his stepson...I've survived being made to pay for that fact- you see, I'm adopted, and to MY experience there's different standards of law for different people- if you're like me, adopted, learning disabled, diabetic, with depression,ect...it's okay to abuse, exploit, condemn,belittle and castigate someone..it's okay to stalk them, rape away any chance of them having a future, any hopes of a meaningful social life...- after all you're JUST adopted..and if there's something wrong with the mamma dog, there's something wrong with it's spawn... But, if your blood parents keep you- that's different, you have all these wondeful protections and rights?! - Despite the fact that the system may well be corrupt- in so far as only those that can PAY for justice gets it...but,I STILL have faith in the system....Or is it a case of if one can't afford the up scale expensive yarn then they have NO right to knit?

Either way, IF this is how new people are treated here, then,I'll take my leave and NOT return...and leave it to the snobbish, Bertha Better than You's....Gods! At least the Crocheting community isn't like this....

I'm GONE!

Quiara
06-25-2007, 07:14 PM
I'm sorry you took it that way. It wasn't directed at any one specifically; it was a general comment. I don't think it was "Better than you" in tone or intent.

I understand being a victim in the criminal system, too. I'm sorry you felt attacked, but that was not my intent. I was making a general statement about what I perceived as a somewhat prevalent attitude regarding the mentally ill.

letah75
06-25-2007, 07:21 PM
Uh, I don't understand why Nita got upset either....am I missing something?

christine
06-25-2007, 07:30 PM
Well I had to go into to the court house. Here you call in and see if they need you. I wasn't needed at the end of last week, but today I was. I left all of my knitting at home.

To my surprise, there were serval folks knitting in the jury assembly room. It is the inconsitency of it all that bugs me. All of the screeners need to get on the same page. If knitting needles are to be considered dangerous, then it goes to say that no knitting at all should be allowed in the court house.

Persoanlly, I don't see how much more dangerous knitting needles are than some of the other stuff folks bering in the court house.

And there should be a list of items not allowed into the court house.

Furthermore, a bit kindness when they took my knitting orginally would have smoothed it all out. That screener needs to go to a custumer service class.

Christine

PS I did get to knit on my flight over to Seattle and back this weekend. I had no problems with the TSA and my knitting.

Jan in CA
06-25-2007, 08:02 PM
Everyone please remember that when you type something people can't see your face or hear your voice to "read" how it's being said. It helps a lot to use the emoticons to give meaning to your post.

I'm sure no one meant to be hurtful. Let's just be careful what we say and keep KH as warm and loving as it is known for. :hug:

redwitch
06-25-2007, 08:47 PM
And remember when you read something you can't see people's face or hear their voice to read how it's being said and if you are annoyed... take a deep breath and reconsider how you would interpret the post if it had been said by a friend... assume it was posted with good intentions not the worst possible interpretation.