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View Full Version : Would you let your 15yo daughter go to the Columbia for Spring Break?


ecb
11-12-2007, 11:27 PM
I just need intelligent feedback, my daughter is SURE I am just being a B!t@#.
Anyone have feedback I can bolster myself with?

ecb

christine
11-12-2007, 11:36 PM
Is this a church mission trip or a school trip?
Here is what the state department says:
This Travel Warning updates ongoing security concerns in Colombia and reminds American citizens of those concerns. This supersedes the Travel Warning issued January 18, 2006.
The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the dangers of travel to Colombia. Violence by narcoterrorist groups and other criminals continues to affect all parts of the country, urban and rural.
Violence has continued to decrease markedly in most urban areas, including Bogotá, Medellin, Barranquilla, and Cartagena. The level of violence in Cali, Buenaventura, and the surrounding areas remains high, largely as a result of the illicit drug trade. Many rural areas of Colombia remain extremely dangerous due to the presence of narcoterrorists and Colombian government operations against them.
Terrorist groups such as the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and the National Liberation Army (ELN), and other criminal organizations, continue to kidnap civilians for ransom or as political bargaining chips. No one can be considered immune from kidnapping on the basis of occupation, nationality, or other factors. The FARC have held three American official contractors hostage since February 2003. Although the U.S. government places the highest priority on the safe recovery of kidnapped Americans, it is U.S. policy not to make concessions to or strike deals with kidnappers. Consequently, the U.S. government’s ability to assist kidnapping victims is limited.
U.S. government officials and their families in Colombia are permitted to travel to major cities in the country, but only by air. They are not allowed to use inter- or intra-city bus transportation. They also are not permitted to travel by road outside of urban areas at night. All Americans in Colombia are urged to follow these precautions.
As the Department develops information on potential security threats to U.S. citizens overseas, it shares credible threats through its Consular Information Program documents, available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov (http://travel.state.gov/). U.S. citizens should consult warden messages for Colombia at http://bogota.usembassy.gov/wwwsc093.shtml (http://bogota.usembassy.gov/wwwsc093.shtml), as well as the Department of State’s Consular Information Sheet for Colombia and Worldwide Caution Public Announcement at http://travel.state.gov (http://travel.state.gov/). U.S. travelers can also get up-to-date information on security conditions by calling 1-888-407-4747 in the U.S. or Canada or on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444.

Ingrid
11-12-2007, 11:39 PM
NO.

The.Knitter
11-12-2007, 11:58 PM
NO.

I second Ingrid's motion. I have to say absolutely not. People there are being killed. Normal people. People that went there to have a vacation. JUST LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER would be!

Tell her until she is of legal age you have to decide for her. Tell her you have decided that you would rather her be alive and be upset with you, than happy with you and dead! It's that simple.

Krystal
11-13-2007, 12:08 AM
I am only 23 and not a mom yet... someday...

but Unless this was a trip planned with a group, like school, church, youth org, or she would be going with a friend's family whom you know well and trust, and you were fully aware of what areas they were planning to visit... maybe. Depending if I felt she had earned my trust, and was deserving of a nice vacay.

But even still.. I can't imagine any trustworthy group going to Columbia.

I wanted to go to Quebec for new years when I was 15, this was unchaperoned, planned by students, as an excuse to go get drunk underage and what not. It was only 60 bucks. My mom said no, but instead sprung for the school planned 3day trip to NYC, which was MUCH more expensive, because she felt I earned it and didn't kick up any dust over no Quebec.

dreamsherl
11-13-2007, 12:09 AM
NO!!

beckyrhae
11-13-2007, 12:21 AM
I can say I wouldnt let my 17 year old daughter go without me, so you are not being a bitch.

Sandi
11-13-2007, 12:26 AM
What kind of a trip is this? Is this just a trip going with a friends family? Where would they actually be?
State dept. not with standing hasn't got a clue.
Unfortunatly the world is not the same place it was when we were 15. I went on many school trip's overseas. With nothing going wrong. But then most of the world was not trying to get those of us that lived in North America, or anywhere else for that matter......
If it's a school trip, well supervised, I would most likely let her go.
A very good friend of my son's was killed in an avalanch on a school trip about 5 years ago. Everyone was up in arms over the fact that these kids had died on this trip. It was well planned, well supervised, and they all had training. And it still happened. If my son had attended the same school, he would have been on that trip to. And may or may not have survived. You can't keep your kids in sight, just because there are dangers in the world.
We can't live our lives, wondering, "What If", if we did, no one would ever leave there houses.
I would find out all the info I could on the trip, involve your daughter in the process, and if it's organized, most likely let her go.
It would most likely be a once in a life time experience for her........

Jan in CA
11-13-2007, 12:27 AM
The Columbia...huh? Do you mean Columbia the country? The university? The river?

I'd have to say NO WAY though regardless.

yarnfreak
11-13-2007, 12:41 AM
My 15 year old wouldn't get to go, either. Just wouldn't be happening.

Sandi
11-13-2007, 01:32 AM
I guess I grew up in a more progressive house! Unless there was a clear and present danger I was encourage to explore and do, live, experience new things.

sarahzknitty
11-13-2007, 01:47 AM
H to the L to the L to the NO!
I'm 38 and I don't think MY mother would let ME go.
Your not being a B....your being a good mom.

ecb
11-13-2007, 02:18 AM
Thnk you all for your suport, I cannot Thank you all in one day
Is this a church mission trip or a school trip?
School trip kinda, in that ONE person is coordinating and promoting this trip to the kids by pitcing it AT the school. No one has spoken to me about it, and I will need for heven and earth to be moved before I will let her go someplace like that unsupervised, or undersupervised (like last year at the Yukatan Penninsula).
Her response is that I will not let her because I think she is a coke-head (I have never thought that) I will not let her because she is not good at avoiding peer pressure without HUGE incentives (I give her and inch...She takes a Mile...and then complains that I do not understand..). She has most of the people in her life seeing her as majorly reponsible and overly mature (I used to as well)
I do not plan to let her leave the country again until she is 18 and paying her own way (that is not what her college fund is for) At this point, I really regret giving her all those "People to People" learning oportunities now. She thinks its her RIGHT to go overseas, or whatever just becasue she wants me to trust her (not becasue she has EARNED my trust)
I hate this part of parenting
ecb

CountryKitty
11-13-2007, 08:53 AM
Good Mom, STAND YOUR GROUND! My answer would be a loud and resounding "NOT JUST NO BUT H*** NO!

And to be perfectly honest, I would be up at the school asking questions--who is this person pitching an international trip to my underage daughter, has the school checked this person out, is this a school-sponsored trip, will there be chaperones, what's the itinerary, how will they be traveling and where will they be staying.

If the answer to even one question is 'no' or 'I don't know' I would immediately point out that by allowing this person to come to the school to promote the idea, the school was giving implied support of the trip and therefore could be legally held resposible if the kids came to harm through any inappropriate or incompetent action on the part of this person.

Can you tell I have serious reservations about the judgement of a school administration that allows someone to come in and coax a minor out of the country for even 5 minutes?

PurlyGyrl
11-13-2007, 09:20 AM
Only two words to share:
Natalie Holloway
She was lost on a "kinda school trip". Kids (heck, adults, too) use bad judgment at times and can sometimes be persuaded to do things they wouldn't normally do. I personally just don't think it would be safe for a 15 year old.

auburnchick
11-13-2007, 09:33 AM
Ecb, we all have to make judgement calls based on what we know about our children. From what you've said, your daughter has taken advantage of you before. She has proven to you that you can't trust her. Plus, you don't know the people she would be going with. You can, without any guilt, say no. But, you also need to remember that you are the parent and do not need to justify your decsions. No means no. Period. Your daughter needs to accept that without question. Period.

FYI...I would not let my daughter go either, unless it was a mission trip with our youth group.

HamaLee
11-13-2007, 09:33 AM
No way! And you're not being a bitch!
I'm 26 and not a mom--but seriously, no.

I realize I'm a curmudgeon, but in my world (back in myyy day--way back in the late 90s :teehee:) there was no such thing as "Spring Break" in high school. It was called "spring vacation" and you spent the week using the opportunity to work at a camp or something for 40 hours instead of the usual 15 (which is what I worked during school) to earn money for things like clothes, car insurance and summer spending. Plus there were double sessions and rehearsals for sports/dance.

My mom would've laughed my ungrateful butt right outta the house if I dared to demand she send me on an exotic vacation--one she'd never afford for herself--whilst underage, and then ask HER to foot the bill! Hah.

Stand your ground. You are being 100%, completely reasonable.

MrsDavis3
11-13-2007, 09:55 AM
No.

msoebel
11-13-2007, 10:36 AM
My dh is a youth pastor. We take trips with teens every year. I personally, will more than likely be taking a few students to China this year.

That being said...every adult connected with the trip will be grateful if they have one less student who is going to try and push their boundaries in a foreign country. Forget foreign countries - we took a group to New York City a few years ago for a "service trip" (meaning we went to hospices and just sat and talked with people, we took food to the homeless and sat and talked with them...etc). I had the hardest time keeping them all together in one place without wandering off. They didn't even know the address where we were staying, they didn't know where we were...but they figured they could just wander off and if they got lost, they could ask a policeman to help them.:roll: So if you don't trust your daughter to go, don't let her go. Period.

There were lots of things that my mom didn't let me do...and at the time, I was so mad at her for being so mean to me. Now, I'm grateful my mom cared enough to say no. Most of my friends' parents didn't really care what they were doing.

Julie
11-13-2007, 10:38 AM
Absolutely not.

Abbily
11-13-2007, 10:45 AM
Good Mom, STAND YOUR GROUND! My answer would be a loud and resounding "NOT JUST NO BUT H*** NO!

And to be perfectly honest, I would be up at the school asking questions--who is this person pitching an international trip to my underage daughter, has the school checked this person out, is this a school-sponsored trip, will there be chaperones, what's the itinerary, how will they be traveling and where will they be staying.

If the answer to even one question is 'no' or 'I don't know' I would immediately point out that by allowing this person to come to the school to promote the idea, the school was giving implied support of the trip and therefore could be legally held resposible if the kids came to harm through any inappropriate or incompetent action on the part of this person.

Can you tell I have serious reservations about the judgement of a school administration that allows someone to come in and coax a minor out of the country for even 5 minutes?

This is my exact answer! It sounds like the school is opening itself up to MAJOR liability here, and that is pretty stupid.

Regardless, there is NO WAY I would let my 15 yo daughter go to another country without me. There are just too many situations she may get into that she is just simply not old/experienced enough to deal with.

cftwo
11-13-2007, 10:46 AM
Why don't you come up with some options of things she CAN do over spring break? I know they won't live up to a trip abroad where she could take advantage of unsuspecting adults, but if she's trying to make you think that she's into service, suggest some service opportunities closer to home - they'll look just as good on her college applications. Maybe she can sort food at a food pantry, or help sort donations at the Salvation Army, or spend some time at a nursing home. Let her try to explain to you that she wasn't quite so altruistic.

dustinac
11-13-2007, 10:57 AM
Why don't you come up with some options of things she CAN do over spring break? I know they won't live up to a trip abroad where she could take advantage of unsuspecting adults, but if she's trying to make you think that she's into service, suggest some service opportunities closer to home - they'll look just as good on her college applications. Maybe she can sort food at a food pantry, or help sort donations at the Salvation Army, or spend some time at a nursing home. Let her try to explain to you that she wasn't quite so altruistic.

I think this is a great idea... and no... I would have to say NO!!

stitchwitch
11-13-2007, 11:59 AM
I would vote a big NEGATIVE on that idea with no questions asked. It has nothing to do with being culturally experienced or open minded it has everything to do with a 15 year old going to a country that the US puts on a travel alert with some half assed group thing not even sponsored by the school. Too many unanswered questions and too much of a risk.

Kaydee
11-13-2007, 12:17 PM
I would vote a big NO with the rest of the crowd. Unless its something organized where you know there's going to be enough adults there to watch over the kids. When I was a senior in high school my parents let me go with my friends to the Dominican Republic unsupervised. I payed for the trip all myself, but looking back I can't believe our parents let four 17 year olds go off by themselves despite the fact that we were all good kids. We didn't really do anything bad, but it was only a few years later when that girl disappeared in Aruba on a school trip! You just never know what could happen even if there are adults there.

Knitting_Guy
11-13-2007, 12:37 PM
Not a chance.

Jeremy
11-13-2007, 01:08 PM
No. And I say that as a parent who did send his kids to Israel, one at age 17 so I'm no weenie as far as these things go. Its a matter of trust and obviously she isn't prepared to deal with the world's dangers at this point. I don't envy you.

ecb
11-13-2007, 01:12 PM
and thank you and thank you and thank you
I am on of those moms that has always told me kids "Listen, I am NOT being reasonable right now, s _______" and she thinks these ideas are good then gets exposed to something and cannot make good decisions and blames the stress of me controlling her life on her poor choices (yeah, I know, BS) but I seem to have spoiled her without realizing it, and it is making me feel REALLY bad abut myself as a mother (yeah I know I have not screwed up nearly as much as I have done well, but still....)
and yeah, I have a call into the school

ecb

scout52
11-13-2007, 02:06 PM
I concur with everyone else that posted a no and thanks to whoever posted the State dept. I did a pro bono asylum case for a somali family but while I did that family another attorney had taken a case for a columbian family. It was not pretty. (a young teen escaped by herself after her parents were murdered in front of her) Columbia is not safe for its citizens, for the visitors OR NGOS (non Government organizations)

When the people that go there to help are getting kidnapped and raped it is not worth it for your daughter. And I'm hispanic so I don't want anyone here to think i'm being offensive.

Kidnapping has become a VERY lucrative business there. its the side effect of the war on drugs. The war on drugs has worked to some extent. and this is the effect. and if you are american they think you are rich. and if you don't pay they WILL kill the hostage. Its not worth the risk. they kill the educated class in columbia for the exact same reason. there is a huge business down there for bodyguards and kidnapping insurance.

Chel
11-13-2007, 02:10 PM
Absolutely not. And its not that you don't trust her-its that there are totally different rules out there and it is not safe for a 15 yo to be without parents.

In addition, there are many many people who go to resort types of areas during Spring Break specifically looking to target and exploit young girls. They lie and manipulate to gain trust. Unfortunately good people only see the best in others and that in itself would put a big ole target on her.
So, yeah, you are totally being bitchy, if by bitchy she means caring about her safety, loving her enough to protect her from things she may not understand yet and otherwise being a good, concerned parent. You meanie you! :) ::hug:: 15 is such a hard age.

jodstr2
11-13-2007, 02:20 PM
no, I wouldn't let her go on that trip.

you are being a good responsible mom who is protecting her child. I know sometimes it's hard to be in that situation, but you have life experience and wisdom that she doesn't have. I have a 14 yr old who we are having a lot of trouble with due to his reactions to our rules, so I know what it's like to be perceived as "mean". hang in there ecb... she may not understand, agree, or appreciate it now, but someday she will.

Chel
11-13-2007, 02:30 PM
hang in there ecb... she may not understand, agree, or appreciate it now, but someday she will.

I agree with this statement 100%. It has been said that as a parent it is your job to parent, not be a friend, buddy or pal. Kids are born with 2 parents and that is their shot in life.
Sometimes you end up parenting on your own and thats scary because there is no one to bounce ideas off of, to share in the fears and trials.

Kids feel invincable. The infallibality of youth is a heady thing and often overrides good judgement.

The long and short of it is that you have to love her enough to let her dislike your rules, you have to be consistant enough so that she can define a straight line for herself and you have to be strong enough to bend and not break when confronted with situations like these.
Raising good kids is easy. I know lots of childlike men in their 30's. Its raising good adults that is the challenge.

scout52
11-13-2007, 03:13 PM
ECB

When your 15 year starts screaming at you that you don't trust her tell her its not her that you don't trust but these crazy people. this is taken directly from the State department report on Columbia Dated June 21, 2007. Tell her that you love her too much to put her in danger and that if she wants to do a trip for humanitarian aid that she can go to New Orleans with Habitat for Humanity or come here to San Diego and help rebuild after the fires. (both these areas are tropical and beautiful during spring break)

Travel to Colombia can expose visitors to considerable risk. The Secretary of State has designated three Colombian groups – the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), the National Liberation Army (ELN), and the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC) – as Foreign Terrorist Organizations. These groups have carried out bombings and other attacks in and around major urban areas, including against civilian targets. Terrorist groups have also targeted critical infrastructure (e.g., water, oil, gas, and electricity), police and military facilities, public recreational areas, foreign-owned factories, and modes of transportation.

During the past four years, kidnapping and other violent crimes have decreased markedly in most urban areas, including Bogotá, Medellin, Barranquilla, and Cartagena. The level of violence in Cali, Buenaventura, and the surrounding areas remains high, largely as a result of the illicit drug trade. Colombia continues to have a high rate of kidnapping for ransom. The FARC continues to hold hostage three U.S. government contractors – all U.S. citizens – who were captured in February 2003 when their small plane went down in a remote area of Colombia.

Kidnap or murder victims in Colombia have included journalists, missionaries, scientists, human rights workers and businesspeople, as well as tourists and even small children. No one can be considered immune. Although the U.S. government places the highest priority on the safe recovery of American hostages, and the Colombian government has had some success with hostage-recovery teams, rescue capabilities are limited. Colombian law requires that private individuals coordinate efforts to free kidnap victims with the Colombian Office of Anti-Kidnapping (Ministerio de Defensa/Programa Para la Defensa de la Libertad Personal).

Official and personal travel by U.S. Embassy employees outside of most urban areas is subject to strict limitations and reviewed case by case. U.S. Embassy employees are allowed to travel by air, but inter- and intra-city bus transportation is off-limits to them.

The U.S. Embassy must approve in advance the official travel to Colombia of all U.S. government personnel. Such travel is approved only for essential business. Personal travel by U.S. military personnel to Colombia requires advance approval by the U.S. Embassy. Military personnel requesting permission for personal travel should contact the office of the Embassy’s Defense Attaché through the Embassy switchboard at 011-57-1-315-0811. Non-military employees of the U.S. Government do not need Embassy approval for private travel.

see full report at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1090.html

stitchwitch
11-13-2007, 03:36 PM
Sounds like a blast, I'll book my trip to Columbia tomorrow!:roll:
Seriously, who in their right mind would think it was even remotely ok to take a bunch of teenagers there? Where is this person's mind?

scout52
11-13-2007, 03:58 PM
Yea i just checked the Human Rights Watch Report on Columbia and its not any better. they attacked churches that housed the displaced people (refugees who homes were either destroyed or they chased out of the cities ) because the priests spoke out against the guerrillas. Half of those people were children. Never mind that Columbia is like 99% Catholic. so much for Thou shall not kill. I'm glad they listened during Sunday School.

these are sources that are used by attorneys when seeking asylum for refugees. They carry very heavily with the Immigration judges. and when someone is filing an asylum claim and you are doing your research this is exactly the type of report that makes your case sooo much easier well as long as your client wasn't the aggressor.

There was a story that the during one asylum case in turn out the court translator who had been granted asylum previously lied and the person seeking asylum recognized him as the person who tortured them. can you imagine that??

Sanibelle
11-13-2007, 04:36 PM
My sister-in-law is from Columbia. Her entire family still lives there. Her father was kidnapped and held for ransom for over a month. They were finally able to raise the money and he was let go but he has never been the same person since. I have never been and do not plan on going, so I have not met them but this is not a place for teens to go to visit. Why did they pick this country... of all the places in the world they could have chosen, it seems so odd that they picked Columbia.

scout52
11-13-2007, 04:41 PM
Wow they have the perfect asylum claim, though they should come to san diego as san diego has the highest asylum grants rates in the country and NY the lowest. (mostly because of an organization here that dedicates themselves to asylum, they are a wonderful organization. its who i did my pro bono work with)

Plus they can file a dual application for a family sponsorship. your husband is willing to do that. I'm assuming its your husband that's related to her. that is soo horrible.

is there a facility there that he can get counseling for PTSD? There is an organization here and in NY called Survivors of Torture, where he can get free counseling.

hocns
11-14-2007, 06:58 AM
I'm amazed that the school would let someone come in and organize a trip through them, especially to a place like Columbia. Someone needs their butt kicked.

sig
11-14-2007, 08:48 AM
First: is ColOmbia. Ok, I'm from Colombia and really, as sad as it sounds, I'll never take my boyfriend to my country, why? It IS too dangerous for American people, specially american people! please, listen to this. I don't know why someone would arrange a trip to Colombia with american teenagers. It is a dangerous but beautiful country.
As for traveling out of the country... well my parents used to send me to summer camps to germany, swiss, austria... since i was 12yo! And i love it, of course, it was a safe environment, with teachers and all we needed.

rosefields
11-14-2007, 10:29 AM
NO, NO, NO!

Sometimes as parents, we have to make unpopular decisions...
As the mother of 22 yo son and 11 yo (going on 21) daughter, my opinion is:

NO, NO, NO!

mommie*3
11-14-2007, 08:14 PM
No. Let her join the peace corps if she wants to travel to the third world.

emmaknits
11-14-2007, 09:12 PM
Hello, I'm 18 and a freshman in college, and even I think it would be crazy for a 15 yr old to go somewhere on their own like that!

ecb
11-15-2007, 01:25 AM
Hello, I'm 18 and a freshman in college, and even I think it would be crazy for a 15 yr old to go somewhere on their own like that!
I wish you were my kids friend

I called the school and they had NO IDEA who this woman was, and had NOT sponsired her to run this trip through the school, someone did give her permission to speak to a couple classes about her "outreach" work. She apprently takes a limited number of kids each year.
Well, it turns out the woman who is chaperoning the trip started going when she was 16 herself, she graduated the next year and started going every year to do some kind of Habitat for Humanity. According to one adult I know who knows her (knows her somewhat) says she has never really had any trouble down there {its the "really" part that freaked me out}
My daughter has not called me or her Sibs since the day she asked to go to Colombia. I always knew she would grow into a great adult, I just wish it was not the rest of her family that had the growing pains. I miss her SOOOO much, sorry

ecb -thanks for all the hugs and support, I really need it.

jess_hawk
11-15-2007, 09:15 PM
I agree that she should not be allowed to go. This comes from someone who is 20, and believes that everyone should travel as much as possible, at a young age. I traveled to Japan when I was 13 - but it was a well established program through my school and sister cities, and my host sister had been to our home the year before. Also, Japan is NOT Columbia, it was very well supervised for us kids (there were four of us in a group with 8 adults), and I am VERY responsible and strong willed - i.e. peer pressure has never been an issue. And, Japan is not Columbia.
I love to travel the world, but world travel has to be done intelligently, especially for the young. Perhaps she can find out about some better-established, better-supervised trips to safer countries?
I understand that she thinks that nothing bad will happen to her. All the statistics in the world will not change that, unfortunately, until she gets older. (I still have that attitude somewhat myself). She'll be angry at you, but eventually, she will realize that you are right. (Don't tell my mom I said that.)

ecb
11-16-2007, 11:00 AM
Don't tell my mom I said that.
I wont ;)
believe it or not, I was worse to my parents
and my mom still speaks to me :heart:
ecb

MellieThePooh
11-16-2007, 12:46 PM
As a recovering adolescent (I'm 23), I can tell you I would have thrown a fit if I were in your daughter's position, but now that I'm older and wiser, I would admit that I was being stupid, if that makes sense. I'm so glad my parents didn't let me do everything I wanted to.

VictoiseC
11-16-2007, 02:09 PM
Wow, what a lot of feedback! I say definitely NO. There are so many other interesting and beautiful places where people don't get pulled off buses and raped or murdered. She's too precious.

Jan in CA
11-16-2007, 02:38 PM
Where is your daughter? I'm confused. Anyway, I can't believe this woman was setting this up and the school didn't know about it. Hopefully they'll keep track of things better now.

The.Knitter
11-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Where is your daughter? I'm confused.

I was wondering the same thing. You say you and her siblings have not heard from your DD since she told you about the trip. Where is she? Did she run away from home because you said no?

15 is such a hard age. She is too young to be an adult, too old to be a child and too confused to know what is right for her yet. I wish you good luck, you may need it.

HamaLee
11-16-2007, 04:04 PM
I assumed she was at a private boarding school of some sort, but you know what happens when you ASSume. :teehee: I also sort of thought you "missed" your daughter in the sense that...you miss the lovely young lady she used to be and still is underneath the horrid monster that is a teenaged girl. (Not that I was a total, raging *expletive deleted* to my wonderful parents or anything...:angelgrin::hiding:)

Stay strong, ecb, you know you're making the right decision...and honestly so does your daughter. The intensity of her hissyfit shows that she was expecting a "no" (because it's totally reasonable, hello!).

KnitClickChick
11-16-2007, 08:51 PM
To Colombia.... no way. I am 30 and I wouldn't want to go there. It just seems too dangerous.

Samsam
11-16-2007, 09:42 PM
I was just in a model united nations mock conference where the country was represented and I sure wouldn't want to go there!

ecb
11-16-2007, 09:58 PM
I also sort of thought you "missed" your daughter in the sense that...you miss the lovely young lady she used to be and still is underneath the horrid monster that is a teenaged girl. (Not that I was a total, raging *expletive deleted* to my wonderful parents or anything...)
Stay strong, ecb, you know you're making the right decision...and honestly so does your daughter. The intensity of her hissyfit shows that she was expecting a "no" (because it's totally reasonable, hello!).
Thank you
Yes I miss the kid who used to grab DVD and come in my room, BOUNCE on my bed begging if we could pop a entire box of microwave popcorn and watch a 4 hour movie al satuday afternoon instead of shopping and doing chores.
I miss the young woman who would call me to ask if her advice to her friend was sound or not, becasue I alway had the background info that she never would have thought of on her own.

and an update, I pulled my Daughter from her wonderful Waldorf high School in NH when the school did NOTHING about my concerns about her. I expressed concerns about her dating, they can do nothing about that, thats not such a big deal to the world i get that. Then it was the sneaking out of her dorm at night to go for walks, again, not a concern for them, they Know she is actually safe. The Jumping out the wondow got her a talking to that explained that that was something they were concerned about becasue she might hurt herself, so she stopped that behavior (they think). I expressed concerns about her cutting that SHE had told them about and they were doing Nothing to support her in any real way, and the kids in the support group she was put in were the kids she later started drinking with ON campus. then she stole alcohol from ME and took it across state lines to share with her other students and her Senior Buddies as a welcome home party. She informed me the school was already aware, so after that when i took her back to school I took her to the Dorm parents apartment to search her bags for more contraband. She was DEVISTATED, it seems that the suppot track crew from the school had NOT notified the Dorm parent about her Cutting or her drinking. It seems that there is a different level of 'being in trouble' if the Dorm parents are made aware than if you just break the rules and admit it in group.
it got worse before I clamped down on all this crap, and i SHOULD have pulled her in Mid October, instead I kept giving her breaks as long as each thing never happened again. I pulled her in may when she refused to take a drug test becasue she knew it would be positive.
Now she is living with a friend of mine in a town a few towns over, it is a compromise, she has assured (threatened) that if she is forced to live under MY roof with MY BS rules she will just run away. She has NO CLUE how to survive on the streets, I bairly survived it, and that was over 20 years ago. The funny thing is the home she lives in has stricter rules than I had. But she stays there, and follows all their rules and has passed every Drug test given her.
She is upset that she get so little time with her sisters, but she is not avialable, and when she is, they sometimes have other plans (somehow this is my fault) But she has a cell phone she can use, and her old E-mail account, and her old and new Myspace (both of which I know about). and she has pretty free use of the house phone (and the kids can call her any time they want, I do NOT restrict phone use other than on lines of RESPECT, and COURTESY) My kids actually asked me to STOP telling them to call her, so I respect that (although I still harass them to call their great-grandmother, their Grandmother, Uncles, etc).
Se would be furious about me Outing her like this, but she needs to learn to deal with her actions biting her in the butt.

ecb

hocns
11-16-2007, 10:15 PM
You have my sympathy, having just had daughter problems recently. My oldest moved in with a friend's family last summer after a fight with me, I finally got her to come home after threatening to come back with some cops. I didn't know at the time (and luckily, neither did she) that anyone 14+ can decide where and how she wants to live, in our province, and her highness was 16 at the time. One of the problems today, as I see it, is that they are told over and over that nothing is their fault, and what their rights are. It's good knowing that in cases of abuse, but our disagreement was over dishes, as in, I shouldn't have to wash them after working a 12-hour day, while she and her sister were home all day dirtying them. Anyway, friends with daughters assure me that they do grow up and get better, so that's some consolation. Although I do know a few people with middle aged daughters who are still miserable and nasty. Hang in there!

Ingrid
11-17-2007, 11:28 AM
I had a 'problem child' as well, and I work with them now, too.

This is why I became a grandmother at 44. :teehee: The road since then has been extraordinarily bumpy in her case, but they do grow up. Stand your ground and be consistant. Get her some counselling if she'll go, and maybe some for yourself.

Don't beat yourself up, though. You didn't cause all this.:hug:

Jan in CA
11-17-2007, 01:44 PM
I also had serious problems with my youngest daughter so you are not alone. Sometimes knowing that can help a lot. I agree with Ingrid on the counseling..with her if she'll go, by yourself if she won't.

BTW.. my daughter is 28 now, just graduated from college last spring, has a steady job and boyfriend and is now a lovely young woman. Hang in there, it usually gets better. :hug::hug:

ecb
11-17-2007, 03:29 PM
I agree with Ingrid on the counseling..with her if she'll go, by yourself if she won't. :hug::hug:
I am in counceling, She agreed to go, had a single appointment, then never maked another. It is hard.
thanks for all your support.

ecb

usamacka
11-17-2007, 03:42 PM
I think sometimes we have to do the TOUGH LOVE approach. Let her know you love her. Don't let her push your buttons! With my own kids, when they would get to that breaking point for me, I would calmly walk away, just say OH, or say, hey let me think about it.
Of course Columbia??? NO WAY!

GinnyG
11-17-2007, 05:41 PM
I am so sorry you are going through this. :hug:

My daughter, now 23, put me through hell from the age of 12 until just recently. It was/is devastating. I raised 4 boys and when she was born I was so thrilled tohave a daughter. I had such hopes and dreams for our relationship. Life was wonderful til she turned 12 and then everything changed. Drugs, boys, alcohol. We went through it all.
She is now in graduate school and her life has turned around. She is doing well. I wish I could tell you that our relationship turned out as well but I can't. It has improved, we love and care for one another. But I never again had the relationship with my daughter that I so longed for.
I am thrilled to have her sober, productive and happy but I grieve continually for what we missed.

My heart goes out to you and the years you have ahead.

starburst
11-20-2007, 03:07 PM
As someone who was recently a 15 year old girl, now that I'm almost 20, I am beginning to understand why my parents did the things they did. It wasn't always easy to follow their rules but I learned to bite my tongue and just do it.

Time changes everything and while it may take a lot of time for adolescence to wear off and for understanding to grow, it will happen eventually.

sinistral_needler
11-20-2007, 03:10 PM
No way, ever .. never! Two words .. Nathalie Halloway. 'Nuff said.

Matdredalia
11-21-2007, 02:02 PM
I can't say what you should or shouldn't do, since I'm obviously not you.

However, in my personal experience's with my mother, she had a tendency to do things, or tell me to do things, without giving any real explanation, and it made me resent her and caused more problems. (Please note, I'm not saying you're treating your daughter this way, I really don't know the circumstances.)

However, when my mom started accepting that I was intelligent enough to understand her decisions, and that if she'd just explain her reasons, I would be much more understanding, things got much better.

If I were in your position, I would tell her "No" for the time being, and explain that it's not because you don't trust her judgment, it's that there are many dangers in Columbia right now and you only wish for her safety. Tell her that if things settle down there in the future, you may consider letting her go then, but for the time being, you love her too much to take the risk of something happening to her.

I can't say for sure what will happen, but I know that if my mother had used an argument like that on me, I'd have backed down. It's hard, in my opinion, to argue with your parents when they're trying to protect you from very real physical harm.

lelvsdgs
11-21-2007, 02:06 PM
No way! And you're not being a bitch!
I'm 26 and not a mom--but seriously, no.

I realize I'm a curmudgeon, but in my world (back in myyy day--way back in the late 90s :teehee:) there was no such thing as "Spring Break" in high school. It was called "spring vacation" and you spent the week using the opportunity to work at a camp or something for 40 hours instead of the usual 15 (which is what I worked during school) to earn money for things like clothes, car insurance and summer spending. Plus there were double sessions and rehearsals for sports/dance.

My mom would've laughed my ungrateful butt right outta the house if I dared to demand she send me on an exotic vacation--one she'd never afford for herself--whilst underage, and then ask HER to foot the bill! Hah.

Stand your ground. You are being 100%, completely reasonable.

Got to agree...

lelvsdgs
11-21-2007, 02:12 PM
As someone who was recently a 15 year old girl, now that I'm almost 20, I am beginning to understand why my parents did the things they did. It wasn't always easy to follow their rules but I learned to bite my tongue and just do it.

Time changes everything and while it may take a lot of time for adolescence to wear off and for understanding to grow, it will happen eventually.
These are wise words...

knitncook
11-24-2007, 04:14 PM
Well, now that I've read what it is I'd definitely have to say no. Not that I wouldn't trust my kid, I'm not sure I would trust the environment. My daughter is making plans to spend a year in Japan (in 2 years) but it is such a totally different environment than a "semi-organized throw it together trip to Columbia!" It's an exchange program with adults involved along the way and people screened and with credentials and a positive track record!

I'm fairly open minded and permissive. My oldest has flown across the country alone to visit friends and she's gone to rock concerts with limited parental supervision (her friends' parents went but they were too busy rocking out to actually supervise). My dd's very level headed, mature and street smart, but I still wouldn't let her go to a foreign country alone without a clear plan and proper supervision. And she knows it. :)

MaleKnitter
11-24-2007, 08:32 PM
I am a 17 year old high school student (pretty close to here age) and I agree with everyone else. NO even if it WAS with church or school I would still say no.
Does she know how to knit?
If she doesn't then teach her how. It will plan her spring break for her (she will be knitting which is what I plan to do).

ecb
11-24-2007, 10:07 PM
I am a 17 year old high school student (pretty close to here age) and I agree with everyone else. NO even if it WAS with church or school I would still say no.
I have said NO, and she did talk to me at thanksgiving as if she was not upset, so I have to believe she is over it. she is all a-twitter about drivers Ed now (this does fall under the "BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID" category)
Does she know how to knit?
If she doesn't then teach her how. It will plan her spring break for her (she will be knitting which is what I plan to do).
She knows how to knit, and cannot be bothered with it. She even does a nice job when she wants to, just does not have the passion to do more than she already has done.
oh well, yet another loss in her collum.

I am So greatful she was happy to see me at Thanksgiving

ecb

Samsam
11-24-2007, 10:43 PM
My sister was just like that until adulthood. It was horrible for our family but now she's 23 and on the right track. Hopefully she'll see through it all like my sister finally did.

KnitPrincess
11-24-2007, 10:58 PM
ecb,
Someday your 15 year old will look back on this whole thing and hopefully she realizes that you were just being a good parent. Good job...parenting is not an easy job...well that is what my mother tells me lol and i am 23...she lets me know it every day :wink: .

Doodknitwit
11-24-2007, 11:44 PM
uh no!

CountryKitty
11-25-2007, 08:39 AM
Glad she is apparently over it!

she is all a-twitter about drivers Ed now (this does fall under the "BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID" category)

Will be praying for you. (:wink: )

Matdredalia
11-25-2007, 10:35 AM
Glad she is apparently over it!



Will be praying for you. (:wink: )

I second that motion.

My 13 year old (kids in AR can get their permits at 14) brother is getting at-home drivers ed soon, and I'm ready to lock my doors and never leave the house again at this rate. Seriously, I'm terrified.

I'll keep you and your DD in my prayers. Getting behind the wheel is scary.