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miccisue
12-24-2007, 07:27 PM
I realize that there are a lot of people in the forum that don't use WalMart. (Quite frankly, I wish I didn't have to, but to get to a Michael's or Hobby Lobby, I have to drive 90-100 miles, and with Hobby Lobby closed on Sunday which is my only day off.....) But, for those of us that do, I'm sure lots of us have noticed the reduction in the yarn/fabric/craft department. Some stores have completely done away with fabric, some are doing away with yarn (or cutting it WAY down), and my local WalMart has done away with embroidery supplies. I was talking this over with the gal in charge of that department, and she said there were several women (some of them older ladies) who were literally in tears because they couldn't get embroidery supplies anywhere close anymore. (The WalMart credo - move in and obliterate any small business that is in competition with you, then eliminate the very services you usurped.....anyway, that's my opinion). She suggested that everyone having a problem with the disappearing craft section call the corporate offices (listed on their website)...or 1-800-WALMART (if I can post that) and let them know how much they are hurting the consumer. There needs to be a lot of feedback on these cutbacks if we want them to even start to rethink their decision.
Just a thought I figured I'd throw out there.

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
12-24-2007, 07:48 PM
they're doing away with crafts altogether. my DSS works at WM.. they're severely scaling back....

which means that i will have to drive either an hour to albany or 45 minutes to saratoga for a decent supply of yarn... the joann's in amsterdam is pathetic and theyr'e doing away with their yarn section too.

bethany
12-24-2007, 09:33 PM
bummer--time to open your own stores!

Knitting_Guy
12-24-2007, 09:53 PM
I posted something about this a while back. Wal Mart is scaling back it's crafts department. A woman in our local store told me that there will only be six feet of shelf space for yarn very soon. Wal Mart hates knitters.

ironmaiden
12-24-2007, 10:07 PM
The WalMart credo - move in and obliterate any small business that is in competition with you, then eliminate the very services you usurped.....anyway, that's my opinion.

It's not really an opinion, that's just how they do business. And it sucks, for small businesses, consumers, and communities.

ecb
12-24-2007, 10:11 PM
(The WalMart credo - move in and obliterate any small business that is in competition with you, then eliminate the very services you usurped.....anyway, that's my opinion) Just a thought I figured I'd throw out there.
Now I wonder, is it your opnion, Only your opinion if it has been proven time and time again over the past 15+ years?
My Sister used to work for this GREAT little Mom & Pop Drugstore with an honest to goodness Soda Jerk and everything. Walmart came in after convincing the town that they were NOT gonna slash and burn the competition in order to get their build permits. 3 months after they opened up, her boss went down to the store and was able to find nearly HALF the things he carried (non perscription) at less than HALF PRICE for what he could BUY them for. so forget mark up, he was being undercut before he even ordered in his supplies. 1 year after he and 2 of the 4 other M & P shops closed down, the Medication isle prices went back to normal, occassionally undercutting a advertised sale from a competator, but not really needing to. They had all the repete customers they needed to stay in buisness.
I avoid that place like the PLAGUE, and for a nurse, Plague is something to AVOID.
we still have 2 LYS and one quilting shop that openned just after the last original fabric shop had to close due to inability to compete, even with loyal customers.

the crafting departments are drying up VERY quickly, and the quality is going first, to justify the 'hey, there ARE no customers for this stuff, so why bother' mentality they seem to have

just my observations, and my fathers from when he was alive and we used to discuss such things.

happy holidays, upcoming and past

ecb

miccisue
12-24-2007, 11:08 PM
Now I wonder, is it your opnion, Only your opinion if it has been proven time and time again over the past 15+ years?
My Sister used to work for this GREAT little Mom & Pop Drugstore with an honest to goodness Soda Jerk and everything. Walmart came in after convincing the town that they were NOT gonna slash and burn the competition in order to get their build permits. 3 months after they opened up, her boss went down to the store and was able to find nearly HALF the things he carried (non perscription) at less than HALF PRICE for what he could BUY them for. so forget mark up, he was being undercut before he even ordered in his supplies. 1 year after he and 2 of the 4 other M & P shops closed down, the Medication isle prices went back to normal, occassionally undercutting a advertised sale from a competator, but not really needing to. They had all the repete customers they needed to stay in buisness.
I avoid that place like the PLAGUE, and for a nurse, Plague is something to AVOID.
we still have 2 LYS and one quilting shop that openned just after the last original fabric shop had to close due to inability to compete, even with loyal customers.

the crafting departments are drying up VERY quickly, and the quality is going first, to justify the 'hey, there ARE no customers for this stuff, so why bother' mentality they seem to have

just my observations, and my fathers from when he was alive and we used to discuss such things.

happy holidays, upcoming and past

ecb
Oh, you are absolutely right - WalMart (hate, hate) is the devil incarnate, IMHO. But, the fact does remain that for some of us, they are basically all that we have left unless we travel (sometimes quite a distance) or buy online. If you're trying to cut back on credit card debt, the online thing can be difficult unless you find someone who will accept money orders. So, in spite of the fact that I hate shopping there (I only go in for things I can't get anywhere else - like McCormick spices...none of the local groceries carry McCormick brand anymore and I've had the best luck with McCormick stuff being consistent in taste as opposed to other spices, and yarn being the two major things I can think of) there are times I am basically forced to (sweats are another thing - they have the pants in petite lengths, all the other stores just have regulars, and being 5' tall, the regulars are just waaaayyy too long).
I figure they've destroyed enough small businesses in town - we had 3 or 4 fabric stores, and they all carried yarn as well but of course they got beaten to death by Wally World - it's time for them to have their feet put to the fire by the consumers.
Hmmm.....maybe even if you'd never, ever, ever shop there, you ought to call and complain anyway. Besides helping out the people who do rely on them for fabric, yarn, embroidery goods, and other craft stuff, you can look on it as payback for booting all the nice little mom and pop places out of business.:twisted: :biting:

Lisa_H-Town
12-25-2007, 01:12 AM
Well, to be the other side... I hate to hear the are doing away with the craft items, becuz when your child informs you 10 o'clock at nite he has to have 3 yards of fabric and thread for a school project the next day... where else can you go?? I had heard they were getting rid of the yarn and such, but since I have a HobLob close, I didn't really get concerned for myself, but felt it for the rest of the folks that didn't have an alternative... :heart:I will call the number and support!

The M&P's can't do the 24 hours -- the other chains don't offer it either.... and that saves a lot of last minute folks like me. But I live in a large city... so we have a wide variety of stores small and large.. but I need the Wal-marts more than I can do with out them.... sorry..... I mean, where else can you shop at 11pm??? They have spoiled me.... But I have also put in my sacrifices... My husband works for Sam's... and that would be another conversation... as I am sure the other Wal-Mart employees and families could attest to.

**I have heard they have ways of getting things to prices they want to offer.... Consider(hypothetical brands here),,, you are Eveready batteries... they tell you... we want to sell them for this price or they don't go on our shelves... There sit the Duracells.... Hmmmm whose stock goes up? NO, not fair... but here we are....
miccisue (http://www.knittinghelp.com/forum/member.php?u=12373): I LOVE LOVE LOVE McCormicks garlic salt!! I live by it!!

Quiara
12-25-2007, 03:11 AM
I'm a democratic socialist, so Wal-Mart is basically the antithesis to my working theory of Life, the Universe and Everything.

Because of the way they do business, they make sure they are the only place a consumer has to shop and once they rule the market, they set all the rules: what they will or will not supply and in what quantities and in what areas and for what price. It's an oligarchy and I despise it.

I live in rural Arkansas. The Wal-Mart pestilence started in this area because this is exactly the sort of area that is ripe for it: economically depressed and not particularly diverse.

I buy as much as I can from independent sources and I'm very into making whatever I can by hand. I know that makes me sound very cruchy granola, but I'm not particularly. I just appreciate and support my fellow man in whatever ways I can. That being said, there have been times where Wal-Mart was pretty much my only option. I couldn't afford the independent stores at the time and economy was necessity.

My dad owned his own business right up until he died earlier this year. I have nothing but respect for small business owners and their families. It can be hard and dad's field isn't even Wal-Mart-able.

Urgh. I'm rambling. I just hate to see this happen.

Pat in Ca
12-25-2007, 03:39 AM
Walmart does not put small "mom and Pop's " out of business.. the consumers (You) do, by not shopping there... if the consumers (you)
stop shopping at Walmart, you can put Walmart out of business..
But,.. someone must be shopping there, it is the worlds largest retailer..It is just "politically correct " to hate Walmart.. It is no different than Target or kmart...I don't have a Walmart near me, so I don't get to shop there often.,, but I did visit one a couple weeks ago, and the prices were very low, There were lot of people buying Christmas presents, and I thought to myself, how great it was to be able to buy all your Christmas presents there.. I bought the new Eagles CD..below $15.. Don't you think that is a good service for some of us who may not be able to shop at higher end stores??
I feel Walmart provides products to lower income wage earners that they may never be able to afford otherwise...I heard an economist say that Walmart has single handedly kept inflation down in this country..just my opinion..Merry Christmas!

Quiara
12-25-2007, 03:59 AM
Walmart does not put small "mom and Pop's " out of business.. the consumers (You) do, by not shopping there... if the consumers (you)
stop shopping at Walmart, you can put Walmart out of business..

In a sense you're right. Yes, sure, if you can afford to shop at the M&P's in this economy, go right ahead. People don't like it, but the independent retailer is a privilege and more and more often a luxury. It is not the right of the middle class as it has been in the past.


But,.. someone must be shopping there, it is the worlds largest retailer..

Yes, people are shopping there because they can't afford to shop elsewhere. Wal-Mart cheats its employees and it supplies its warehouse with sweatshops and essentially outsources for slave labor. It's kind of easy to have the best prices when you're paying your factories $1.22/day.


It is just "politically correct " to hate Walmart.. It is no different than Target or kmart...

It's not particularly politically correct. Wal-Mart is the common man's Haliburton. In a strictly consumer-driven economy, hating Wal-Mart is "un-American." But perhaps you should study the business practices and economic impact of stores like Kmart and Target before you lump them all together. Neither of those stores is on my "yay" list, but Kmart has done some serious house cleaning and Target is under a far more watchful eye.


the prices were very low, There were lot of people buying Christmas presents, and I thought to myself, how great it was to be able to buy all your Christmas presents there.. I bought the new Eagles CD..below $15.. Don't you think that is a good service for some of us who may not be able to shop at higher end stores??

The problem with Wal-Mart is not that it has low prices. Low prices are fabulous. It's how it GOES ABOUT PROVIDING those low prices - through slave labor, sweatshops, cheating its employees and inflating the lower end of the economic strata. It helps create the economically challenged population you claim it serves.

I heard an economist say that Walmart has single handedly kept inflation down in this country

I'd like to see a source or an article or something on that. That is not, historically, what Wal-Mart is known for in any area it has dominated.

Debkcs
12-25-2007, 05:27 AM
Wal-mart puts me off, just on G.P., but for a lot of people right now, it's what they can afford. I have cyber friends who work at WM because there are no other places to work in their communities. When WM opened up, so did jobs for more workers.

That being said, the less I go into one, the happier I am.

ironmaiden
12-25-2007, 09:05 AM
Walmart does not put small "mom and Pop's " out of business.. the consumers (You) do, by not shopping there... if the consumers (you)
stop shopping at Walmart, you can put Walmart out of business..
But,.. someone must be shopping there, it is the worlds largest retailer..It is just "politically correct " to hate Walmart.. It is no different than Target or kmart...I don't have a Walmart near me, so I don't get to shop there often.,, but I did visit one a couple weeks ago, and the prices were very low, There were lot of people buying Christmas presents, and I thought to myself, how great it was to be able to buy all your Christmas presents there.. I bought the new Eagles CD..below $15.. Don't you think that is a good service for some of us who may not be able to shop at higher end stores??
I feel Walmart provides products to lower income wage earners that they may never be able to afford otherwise...I heard an economist say that Walmart has single handedly kept inflation down in this country..just my opinion..Merry Christmas!

This is exactly why what they do works, because money is tight and people are lured by the promise of low prices. We don't have much money, but like you said, the reason it works is because people shop there, so I don't. Walmart is worse than a lot of the other big retailers, because they bully their suppliers into selling their products at lower prices in order to price them lower on the shelf. The effect this has throughout the production food chain is catastrophic - those companies then have to make their money back by employing sweatshop labor and the companies that supply their raw materials have to do the same. Walmart is worst for the poorest of us, because they feed off our poverty and need.

Saying that something is "trendy" and "politically correct" doesn't change the truth.

knitncook
12-25-2007, 09:19 AM
I do a lot of "looking into" of the companies I do my business with. Not only what they are doing to my local (and global) economy but where the profits from that company go. There are places I wont' support because profits from that company go to organizations that I don't agree with their actions.

Before our town got inflitrated by Wal-mart, (there are six in our county alone!) there used to be several LYS', several small fabric stores that carried gorgeous fabrics from all over the world, and other craft related stores. We now only have 1 independent fabric store which is inside a drugstore and is always delapidated and depressed (looks like the same fabric they had back when Wal-mart first moved in town other than their quilting fabrics) There is one LYS (which ironically is located just across the street from one of our Wal-mart's, but she was there first) and one needlework shop. And now our Wal-marts have done away with fabric altogether, have reduced the sewing department to a few sewing machines and the yarn has reduced down to 1/2 of a short aisle and it is all novelty yarns.

I am friends with one of the former craft managers. She told me once that the reason they are doing away with these areas is because the man hours are too extensive for those sections, especially fabric. They got "less work" from someone cutting fabric than someone stocking shelves and those areas were always in need of constant tidying. They also found too much "waste" because of reducing the cost of remnants or damaged items (fabric with milling flaws) so for Wal-mart it was more cost effective to eliminate those areas and replace them with other merchandise which they could get more profit from. It all comes down to making a profit. :(

While I realize that one must make a profit in order to stay in business (duh) there is a difference between making a profit and abusing an economy. I could go on and on about my disdain for Wal-mart, but I would be here all day, not be a happy person at the end and I'm hoping for a day of happiness and peace (as soon as I get off work).

Pat in Ca
12-25-2007, 03:27 PM
Is the public being dragged kicking and screaming to shop at Walmart? Are employees forced to work there.?. I hear they line up to put in applications.. Are there any happy Walmart employees? The new reality is we now live in a GLOBAL economy.. In fact , in the past couple years, we have had a GLOBAL BOOM in the economy that has pulled many millions of people OUT of povery and starvation..If Walmart did not exist, the Chinese version of Walmart would..Competition is what Capitalism is based on..Competition for the consumer $$..Competition forces businesses to provide consumers with the best services possible, and all new innovation in products are driven by business competition..... If Walmart fails to provide what the consumers want, they will go out of business..that is capitalism..It is sad that not all business ventures are a success, but that is a fact of life..If we lived in a socialist system, it would be different.. there would be less choice and no possibility of new innovation to improve our human condition.. I just don't think I want to tell people where they can and can't shop.. it's a free country.. I hope I don't offend anyone... I just have a different opinion..I have witnessed first hand what a socialistic society looks like.. and it was very depressing..our Capitalist society is not perfect, but it is the best system in the world to help people pull themselves out of poverty.. that is why everyone wants to come here..

Knitting_Guy
12-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Pat, ethics also plays a role in business and Wal Mart has demonstrated a serious lack of ethical behavior in their business practices. People criticizing them for that hardly amounts to socialism.

Wal Mart has had suits filed against them for racial discrimination, sex discrimination, pressuring employees to work off the clock (which is highly illegal as well as unethical), discrimination against the disabled, violation of anti-trust laws, and a myriad of others. Of the suits that are not currently in progress or settled out of court, Wal Mart has been found guilty and lost every one of these suits.

Yeah, great company.


People have a right to shop where they choose, but they should know about the company to which they are choosing to give their money and Wal Mart is in no way a good, ethical company.

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
12-25-2007, 05:29 PM
if anyone wants to know how walmart treats it's employees, talk to my FIL and 19 yo ss.... both had the same job (FIL trained ss to take his place when FIL retired) and on benefits? let's put it this way: good thing ss still lives with us and is on dh's insurance plan.

people around here are actually EXCITED that they're building a target (k-mart used to be on the same lot, i used to work there and they treated us only slightly better.. it was more at a department level than a store wide level that we were treated badly... store management usually dealt with it pretty effectively though!) 20 minutes away... along with target we're getting an old navy and possibly a borders or barnes and noble.

Pat in Ca
12-25-2007, 11:22 PM
What large company has NOT been sued for some racial or sex discrimination suit?? The company I work for has also been sued for sex and other discrimination issues.. the most recent class action suit was for not being paid for "overtime" (It was a joke in the office and without merit although the company paid out millions just to settle)..Lawsuits are regularly settled by large corporations... some have merit others don't....Too many lawsuits in my opinion...I feel that some corporations.. like Walmart, Halliburton, "big oil", and the pharmaceutical companies are "demonized" by the press..It is very popular to paint these companies as all being "unethical"..In reality, I think these companies have done a lot of beneficial things for society that are not recognized...I don't feel a company can be ALL bad.. or ALL good.. On CNBC I saw a debate about Walmart.. one guy was for it and one was against it.. the last question was.."Does Walmart on balance do more good or more bad?" They all agreed that it did more good..I really don't want to offend anyone, I am sorry that I feel differently than some here.. I always did go against conventional wisdom..ohh well I love the discussions we have!!

Quiara
12-26-2007, 12:08 AM
What large company has NOT been sued for some racial or sex discrimination suit?? The company I work for has also been sued for sex and other discrimination issues.. the most recent class action suit was for not being paid for "overtime" (It was a joke in the office and without merit although the company paid out millions just to settle)..Lawsuits are regularly settled by large corporations... some have merit others don't....Too many lawsuits in my opinion...I feel that some corporations.. like Walmart, Halliburton, "big oil", and the pharmaceutical companies are "demonized" by the press..It is very popular to paint these companies as all being "unethical"..In reality, I think these companies have done a lot of beneficial things for society that are not recognized...I don't feel a company can be ALL bad.. or ALL good.. On CNBC I saw a debate about Walmart.. one guy was for it and one was against it.. the last question was.."Does Walmart on balance do more good or more bad?" They all agreed that it did more good..I really don't want to offend anyone, I am sorry that I feel differently than some here.. I always did go against conventional wisdom..ohh well I love the discussions we have!!

I think I just objected to the apparent sentiment that anyone who thinks that Wal-Mart is NOT all kinds of sparkles and sunshine just hasn't thought it out and only feels that way because it's "popular" or "politically correct" to do so. I don't mind differing opinions, but I do expect them to come couched in respect, with the assumption that if one holds an opinion, one has probably given it some thought. Deriding an idea for the simple reason that it happens also to be mainstream just rubs me the wrong way. One of my minors was in economics, so my views on Wal-Mart and other businesses are based on both my interest in the subject and a careful consideration of the facts. As, I assume, are yours. We happen to disagree, but I don't think it has anything to do with anyone just accepting what the media has spoonfed them. I would rather err on the side of giving people credit for independent thought. When I ask for supporting sources, it's generally so I can review them and, if necessary, augment my own position - and I ask on the assumption that anyone making blanket statements has something with which to back them up.

I dunno. Maybe I just learned to debate differently.

(I'm not being snarky - just trying to explain my position. However, I recognize that it's the end of a very long day and the more accurately I attempt to phrase a thought, the less personable it sounds. It's not my intent. I'm just trying to convey what I mean.)

Liliyarn
12-26-2007, 12:30 AM
Okay, I don't speak up often....Pat I'm with ya! As with anything in the press, you have to really dig for the whole truth. The stories are always slanted. I'm not even going to go into how everything is so slanted on the different "cons" of Wally World. It is the world's largest employer so of course it has a huge red bullseye painted on it. Target's logo is very fitting...

And the power is 100% with the customer. If you don't like Wally World, then don't shop there. However, most will b/c it offers something for us.

As far as legal battles, they actually settle out of court over 90% of the time as it is cheaper than a long drawn out court show down. Also you are judging an entire company (a huge company by the way with millions of employees) from the actions of some less than perfect people/managers. It is very difficult to watch every move every person does in such a huge company.

Some things that hardly get press if any at all: Wal-Mart has gone green. Love what it has done and is doing in that respect. Other chains are following now too. It's a great start.
The charity alone is beyond belief. When Katrina hit, Wal-Mart donated hundreds of trucks filled with water (they actually drained every supplier on the East coast and had to go to Canada to finally get enough water b/c they had such buying power) and they were there FIRST! Wal-Mart truck drivers took their own lives in hand and got the goods delivered before our own government! FEMA stopped them and took the trailers and over saw the final delivery.

I am a pure capitalist and say yea for Wal-Mart. Make a profit, and help those of us who want/need to save a buck not to mention save some time by shopping in one place.
Wal-Mart does not stop me from supporting my local shops. I personally haven't bought anything from their crafts department in over 5 years. My LYS gets all my money, even though she is at least twice as high. I would not be able to afford the pricey yarn & supplies if it were not for Wally World saving me money on other items. That is what they attempt to do. Save us money so we can spend it on other things *not* at Wally World.
The store isn't perfect, but I don't expect anything grand. Just give me good prices. If something is really off, then it is the store manager's fault. I don't blame the whole company.
Like I said, pure capitalist here. Plus I have no respect for the press and actually looking into some articles on the chain has opened my eyes. Anything said about a big company, gets huge scrutiny from me now.

Wheew....that wore me out....off to knit now...

ignora
12-26-2007, 04:41 AM
**I have heard they have ways of getting things to prices they want to offer.... Consider(hypothetical brands here),,, you are Eveready batteries... they tell you... we want to sell them for this price or they don't go on our shelves... There sit the Duracells.... Hmmmm whose stock goes up? NO, not fair... but here we are...

I've heard this too. I'm a certified Child Passenger Safety Technician... a car seat geek. WalMart doesn't carry Britax (one of the top of the line car seat manufacturers) because Britax won't play by WalMart's pricing rules. Or, so I've been told...

Pat in Ca
12-26-2007, 11:34 AM
The Wal-Mart Effect on Inflation
Daily Policy Digest

Economic Issues / Economic Growth and Inflation

Monday, May 13, 2002

One reason the Federal Reserve is less concerned about inflation than the European Central Bank, say economists at UBS Warburg, is the deflationary impact of America's more competitive retail environment.

They recently evaluated the impact of Wal-Mart Stores Inc. on grocery prices in locations where its Supercenter stores have been undercutting traditional supermarket chains.


The survey found that rival's prices for grocery items were as such as 27 percent to 39 percent higher than Wal-Mart's -- with the average discount offered by Wal-Mart stores for a comparable basket of goods running about 20 percent.
Also, Wal-Mart's presence in a market forced down rival stores' prices by some 13 percent.
This spells less pressure on U.S. household budgets than in Europe -- where grocery competition is less intense.
And, of course, that puts less pressure on the Fed to step on the monetary brakes.

Source: Gene Koretz, "Economic Trends: Wal-Mart vs. Inflation," Business Week, May 13, 2002.

For text
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/
content/02_19/c3782040.htm

Pat in Ca
12-26-2007, 12:09 PM
Much has been written about the "Walmart effect" on inflation.. and the economy in general...cheaper groceries mean less hunger in this world.. I just think that is a positive..
Oh.. , knitting guy, my reference to socialism was because Quiara referred to herself as being a "democratic socialist" in the 7th post on this thread..I am a big fan of Capitalism..
I would like all to know that I respect and value everyone's opinion .... If we all had the same opinions it would get kinda boring..and I am encouraged that we all feel that these issues are important enough to debate.....
I think by discussing the issues we all are so much better off..
The press seems to get so much wrong ,it takes us talking back and forth to sort out the "real truth".. How did we get so "off topic"??? LOL

knitncook
12-26-2007, 01:28 PM
The survey found that rival's prices for grocery items were as such as 27 percent to 39 percent higher than Wal-Mart's -- with the average discount offered by Wal-Mart stores for a comparable basket of goods running about 20 percent.


I haven't shopped at Wal-mart in over 3 years. I actually pay LESS by stock-piling than I ever did buying Wal-mart's "low everyday prices." I am quite sure that this study did their comparison on a "shelf-by-shelf" study rather than through real-life purchasing. If I bought that way then I probably would see a 30 percent inflation in my grocery bill. But I buy long-range rather than week-to-week. If chicken is B1G1 this week I will buy 8 to get me to the next time they are on sale (usually every 2-3 weeks) So rather than buying Wal-mart's prepackaged "solution-filled" chicken that is always $6 for 3 half breasts I am buying all natural solution-free chicken at $12 for two packages of 5 breasts each (so rather than paying $2 a half breast I'm paying $1.20 per half breast)

Ethics are a very important thing for me when I go shopping. Unfortunately, I see more and more Americans (and other nations as well) who believe that their own bottom line is more important than how people are treated.

alleusion
12-26-2007, 01:31 PM
Ya know, one little aside to throw in there with Pat's article posting....

San Diego, CA has blocked Wal-Mart from building any of their stores into super centers. Originally, the "ban" was all of southern California, but my sister says there's a supercenter that was recently built in Hemet near her. I know in San Diego, the reasoning behind this was the "Big 3" (Ralph's, Vons, and Albertson's) have such a huge stranglehold on the chain grocery market that their union is the one blocking the Wal-Mart expansion. It makes sense if you think about it.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart's craft selection. Their fabric (other than quilting fabrics) has never been something that I would buy to make an outfit. I never found anything I liked. As for their yarn....it's currently the only place I can get Bernat Baby (the fingering weight) without ordering it online. Fortunately (?) I don't make too many things with that weight yarn that I need to stock up. I may just do it though, since the skeins are just under $2 a ball.

I can't afford to go to a LYS for specialty yarns. I live on Bernat and Paton's. I can't afford going to alot of stores for the things that I can get at Wal-Mart. The words fixed income and tight budget have nothing on my bank balance.

miccisue
12-26-2007, 01:47 PM
Yes, I understand that we are all on budgets and have to make our money go as far as we can.....but with that said, I also am looking at it from the persepective of someone who not only is fighting the "WalMart battle", but am friends with others who are as well.
Small businesses are not out to cheat anyone - just because their prices may be higher does NOT mean they are greedily trying to rip off everyone who walks through their doors. Since they are unable to buy in the HUGE quantities that Wally World can, to stay in business the have to charge more even though the merchandise may be the same.
To me, this is not the best example of capitalism - one giant conglomerate obliterating small businesses. Of course the small business can't compete. Sadly, the extras we do offer don't even begin to compensate in the strive for the "cheapest money can buy". We have experienced people working for us, we do whatever we can to help our customers, we deliver merchandise to them....and still hear "but I can buy it at WalMart for $1 cheaper" (this after we've spent an hour helping them figure out what it is they are needing).
Small business also has to pay it's employees, uemployment taxes (and we don't rely on mostly part-timers to avoid employment extras), workment's comp, etc.
I fear for the day when WalMart is all that's left - and after putting all the the little mom and pop and specialty stores out of business, decide they no longer want to supply whatever it is that you (figuratively) are relying on them for. Right now we see it happening in the fabric/yarn/craft departments....later on, it could be the grocery department (or, after having driven out all the competition, their prices go right back up to where the "traditional" stores have been).
Also, it's been my experience that when a WalMart comes to town, they get all kinds of tax breaks, whereas someone trying to open up a small mom and pop store gets no special help at all. No wonder they can't compete - not only do they have to make their basic expenses, they have to compe up with the appropriate property taxes (which are often deferred for WalMart for up to 10 years....at least where I live):tap:

Crycket
12-26-2007, 02:06 PM
I hear your plight. I too will end up at Walmart occasionally for a ball of yarn. And lets face it....there are some projects that are best suited to the things that you can get at Walmart, but I have to agree, they are stripping all that matters away. I am lucky enough to live near enough to a Michaels (albeit I find them not much better, high priced and really...not that abundant in choice). But I tell you...it is the little shop that I miss. I have a few, all of them are a trek.

It is Walmart and Michaels that knocked Lewiscraft out of business (a Canadian craft chain) which was maybe not the best Yarn section, but it did carry Canadian sizes. For example, the nearly impossible to find 7mm needle, which falls inbetween the US 10.5 and 11 sizes. I do have patterns for these needles, and Michaels and Walmart just do not carry them being US companies!

Either way, the crafting community is not a small one. It really shouldn't be shoved into a corner.

Pat in Ca
12-26-2007, 02:15 PM
I cut this article out of the Pittsburgh Gazette because it made sense to me..To assume that anyone who does not oppose Walmart is somehow "for " unethical business practices is silly and untrue.. we all are for the little guy, we all want small businesses to succeed.. we just have different opinions on how to accomplish that.






Pittsburg Gazette.. Sept. '06

Wal-Mart is the favorite whipping boy of those who have lately taken to calling themselves "progressives." They complain about Wal-Mart's low wages and high number of employees (54 percent) who do not qualify for its health insurance plans.

(Funny, but these critics don't hurl the same complaints, though they could, at the more-stylish discount retailer Target.)

Lately, more analytical and less partisan voices have risen to point out the enormous economic good that Wal-Mart has done for lower-income Americans.

Studies show that Wal-Mart's discounting on food alone saves shoppers $50 billion per year; it does one-fifth of the country's grocery business and the typical shopper saves an average of 17 percent. Compare that benefit to the federal government's $33 billion food-stamp program.

Critics also complain that 5 percent of Wal-Mart's workers are on Medicaid. But as Sebastian Mallaby pointed out in The Washington Post last year, that number is typical for large retail companies, and the national average for all private companies is 4 percent.

So when one local anti-Wal-Mart group uses the name "Communities First!," it raises questions. How exactly do you define community? The neighbors who'd like to cut their grocery bills? Those who want a job that pays, on average, nearly double the federal minimum wage?

If you're asking us to shut out a beneficial big guy to favor the little guy who can't offer as much but charges more for it, then no thanks. That's not how free markets work.

miccisue
12-26-2007, 02:56 PM
I cut this article out of the Pittsburgh Gazette because it made sense to me..To assume that anyone who does not oppose Walmart is somehow "for " unethical business practices is silly and untrue.. we all are for the little guy, we all want small businesses to succeed.. we just have different opinions on how to accomplish that.






Pittsburg Gazette.. Sept. '06

Wal-Mart is the favorite whipping boy of those who have lately taken to calling themselves "progressives." They complain about Wal-Mart's low wages and high number of employees (54 percent) who do not qualify for its health insurance plans.

(Funny, but these critics don't hurl the same complaints, though they could, at the more-stylish discount retailer Target.)

Lately, more analytical and less partisan voices have risen to point out the enormous economic good that Wal-Mart has done for lower-income Americans.

Studies show that Wal-Mart's discounting on food alone saves shoppers $50 billion per year; it does one-fifth of the country's grocery business and the typical shopper saves an average of 17 percent. Compare that benefit to the federal government's $33 billion food-stamp program.

Critics also complain that 5 percent of Wal-Mart's workers are on Medicaid. But as Sebastian Mallaby pointed out in The Washington Post last year, that number is typical for large retail companies, and the national average for all private companies is 4 percent.

So when one local anti-Wal-Mart group uses the name "Communities First!," it raises questions. How exactly do you define community? The neighbors who'd like to cut their grocery bills? Those who want a job that pays, on average, nearly double the federal minimum wage?

If you're asking us to shut out a beneficial big guy to favor the little guy who can't offer as much but charges more for it, then no thanks. That's not how free markets work.
The state in which I live already has a minimum wage well above the federal minimum wage, so that point is moot to me.
Also, this whole topic started as a plea to help salvage the fabric/yarn/craft department.....which I don't think Target has (don't know for sure, as we don't have a Target store here).
We have 2 grocery stores in town - other than WalMart - one is a small family chain, they other is a larger, employee-owned chain. Still, neither one is anywhere near the size of WalMart....but they also provide jobs and the one that is employee-owned also gives them a long term benefit.
Years ago, I got my yarn at KMart, then they quit handling it, so I switched to Jack's. They switched management and left town, and I was left with WalMart. I'd love to have a Michael's or Hobby Lobby, but no such luck. Since I don't, although I don't care for WalMart, I'm still lobbying for them to keep their yarn department. Yes, I could order online, but am trying to cut credit card usage to a minimum - I'm tired of the hassle of cc's.
Ideally, I'd love to have a mom and pop place that I could rely on, but no luck there either......and unless WalMart does do away with it's yarn department it doesn't look like there's any hope of that happening.

Plantgoddess+
12-26-2007, 04:12 PM
It does come down to how you want to live your life and what you want to support. I have never been in a Walmart and doubt I ever will. There are brands of products I don't buy because of the corporations behavior. That's my choice and I don't expect everyone to feel the same way. I don't shop much and try and grow some of my own food. I bake my own bread from wheat from local growers who farm sustainably. Costco probably gets most of my money and I will probably be buying some yarn online when I run across good sales.