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Azlynn
06-02-2008, 05:27 PM
Maybe this should have gone in the questions forum, but I wanted to try here first....

So I've been attempting my first pair of socks, and I finally got my first sock done (YAY, right?). Well, not really. It's so embarrassing, I can't even post a picture of it. I have terrible ladders from my DPNs, and I'm going to rip the whole thing out. I can use DPNs just fine on other things, but for some reason on socks I just can't.....do....it.....

So my question is this: I have custom ordered a circular needle with a very short cord and very short tips that should fit the circumference of a sock. Has anyone ever done this? So it would be like knitting a hat, essentially, only I'd have to just take them off to do the heel flap and gusset, then I could put it back on the circular (ONE circular) and finish the tube so I won't have ladders.

Question 2 is, where would I find instructions for these? I find instructions/patterns for 2 circs, magic loop, and DPNs, but I have never seen anyone knit socks on one very short circular like a hat.

Anyone? I'm excited to get the needle in the mail just to try it out and see how it works at least! Maybe it's nonsense and won't even work...

Terri

hartleystudio
06-02-2008, 05:46 PM
Don't give up on the the dpn's!!!!! I got a ladder on my first sock and never on anything else I knit in the round with dpns. The second sock was a little better and then the third was better still and so on. YOu just need to give a little (ok, sometimes kinda big) tug to the first stitch off each needle and then pull that slack through each stitch and you will be fine. I'm not sure how extra short circs will work, you might have to do the two circs or magic loop thingie, I'm not the one to ask about that. Seriously, don't give up after one try!!!!

Good luck!!

of troy
06-02-2008, 06:33 PM
don't give up on the sock.. give it a nice long sock in some warm water,(think of it being at the spa, and relaxing!)

then let it drip dry (in a colendar)

when its damp, put it on a sock blocker (google wire hanger sock blockers if you don't yet have a sock blocker..)

when its dry, admire! many imperfections come out in the wash... the sock is over worked and the spa treatment will bet it looking better in no time (take time for your self too!)

Yes, there are practices that need to be worked on, (to knit more evenly, consistantly across the gap between DPN's) but many glaring errors, aren't! they will wash out..

your sock is better knit than you think..

now get to work on its mate!

Azlynn
06-02-2008, 06:42 PM
Awww you're all so sweet.

I can't exactly work on it's mate because.....well....other than horrible ladders, I was way off on the sizing, and I made mine fit for a giant. LOL It's so funny. I thought maybe my husband could wear it because he has gigantic feet, but it's even falling off of him (even after washing). I did my practice sock in 100% acryclic crappy yarn because I didn't want to waste my good sock yarn until I got better at it, so there's no shrinkage, unfortunately. I just feel so frustrated, and I didn't enjoy any part of making this sock.

My other problem is....this is even weirder....I knit in the round inside out. I've discovered my problem through helpful people on here, and that's my orientation. BUT, I can't fix it. I just...can't...do it the way I'm supposed to, so I've come to acceptance that I'll have to knit inside out. I wonder if that somehow makes my ladders worse on socks. I guess if that were the case, it would happen on my hats, too, and my hats are just fine. I do the tug thing (to the point that I already have calluses forming), I work so hard on my tension, etc. I just feel frustrated. Maybe I'll try one more before giving up. But I have already ordered a custom short circ. to try anyway, so that could just be my miracle.

Cirrus
06-02-2008, 08:25 PM
Azlynn, I've had exactly your same experience. Consider your sock as practice, one step towards being a competent sock knitter. Acrylic would not make a very good sock anyway.

My first pair was gigantic too, and they are wonderful to sleep in on cold winter nights, but they could never be worn anywhere. I used Lion Brand Wool-Ease for them.

As for knitting inside out, I did that too at first. It took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong. I don't know if you are the one who posted about this before or not, but you can and should learn to knit on DP's right side out.

You must knit CLOCKWISE around the 3 or 4 needles holding stitches, knitting the stitches off one needle and onto a new empty needle. For your first stitch, you insert your fresh needle into the first stitch on the needle to the left of the needle where the yarn is coming from. You can do it, and it is possible that the ladders you are having are due to the fact that you are knitting the wrong way around.

As for ladders, I knit tightly on the first stitch and then pull the second stitch tight too. I don't have ladder problems.

If you go to your LYS or Michaels and take one lesson, it will help you with this problem and you'll be much happier knowing you are doing it right. Your socks will be wonderful! Don't give up. I know how hard it is!

Holly
06-02-2008, 08:43 PM
I've tried dpns, magic loop and 2 circs, and I think 2 circs has become my favorite :-). I have had no problem with ladders, and I love being able to try on the sock as I go. I also find it easier to get a socks started using 2 circs or magic loop (compared to dpns). However, you will probably find, as I did, that you will have less problem with ladders on your next dpn try -- it really is just a matter of practice. Don't give up now!

Azlynn
06-02-2008, 08:55 PM
As for knitting inside out, I did that too at first. It took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong. I don't know if you are the one who posted about this before or not, but you can and should learn to knit on DP's right side out.

You must knit CLOCKWISE around the 3 or 4 needles holding stitches, knitting the stitches off one needle and onto a new empty needle. For your first stitch, you insert your fresh needle into the first stitch on the needle to the left of the needle where the yarn is coming from. You can do it, and it is possible that the ladders you are having are due to the fact that you are knitting the wrong way around.

I did wonder if that was the reason they're so bad with socks because of the way the stitches have to be arranged on socks versus other projects (I don't move them around like I can on other tube projects).

I don't know how to explain WHY I can't do it. I get the concept, but the problem is....when I join them. it doesn't seem possible to join them any other way. Do I need to join them then go backward and start knitting? Or do you join them somehow the same way you're explaining that you knit? Did that even make sense? LOL I have no idea how to explain my problem any other way. (I am probably the same person that asked this when I first started, but I was just winging it and decided to compensate since I couldn't figure it out)


If you go to your LYS or Michaels and take one lesson, it will help you with this problem and you'll be much happier knowing you are doing it right. Your socks will be wonderful! Don't give up. I know how hard it is!

I would LOVE to go to a LYS or Michael's and take a lesson. I know that would help solve my problem. Unfortunately, I don't have either of those around here. There is one LYS in Albuquerque that I found, but it's impossible for me to get there (can't explain the reasoning behind that). I did watch the video here, and it looked like the ends were being joined at the top, just like I do, so then I just start knitting on the inside, counter-clockwise.

knitlover
06-03-2008, 01:28 AM
Azlyn, I SO understand your frustration with double-pointed needles while knitting socks. I love knitting socks, but have never cared much for knitting them on double pointed needles, so I have adapted a pattern which is generally supposed to be knitted on either 4 or 5 needles and knit the sock on a short circular needle, as short as I can find. And, at the moment, my LYS is ordering some size 2,3 and 4 circulars that are (drumroll please!) 9 inches long! Up to this time I have been using - successfully, believe it or not - Addi Turbos - which I love, by the way - in the above mentioned sizes. The way you do it is to simply put stitch markers at the point where you are supposed to change needles. That's really all there is to it. And I know you can do it because I would bet that your feet - or at least the feet you are knitting for - are probably bigger than mine; I wear a size 5 1/2 shoe! NOBODY has feet smaller than that - or at least it doesn't happen very often! Plus, I usually start my socks out flat in order to avoid the moebus problem (did I spell that correctly?) that can develop when you start your sock from the cuff. In other words, I cast on my stitches, however many there are, flat (usually using a needle that is quite a few sizes LARGER that the ones the socks will be knitted on. The reason for that is that you need to have the flexibility in your cast-on row in order to be sure the socks will fit over your foot when they are finished. (of course, if you are knitting toe-up socks, you have to remember to bind off [when you arrive at the last row of the cuff] using a much larger needle than the sock is knitted on, as well - for the same reason. You want to be able to get the sock on and off comfortably. I also try to remember to buy yarn for knitting socks that has built in reinforcement (nylon or polyester something or other) because otherwise you will definitely (and I speak from experience) walk holes in your socks. If there isn't reinforcement built in, you need to buy a reinforcing yarn to use along with your sock yarn on the heels and toes; those are the area where most wear occurs.

I hope I have given you enough direction that you can follow what I am telling you to do. If not, please feel free to write me privately or again on this forum! I will be glad to help as much as possible. I have been knitting for years, love knitting socks and have also taught knitting and crocheting and various other kinds of needlework.

Knitlover

Azlynn
06-03-2008, 01:56 AM
OMG knitlover, I'm so happy to hear from someone who has actually done what I'm hoping to achieve!!!! I didn't know they even made circs that small! They have 9" circs? I'm currently having someone custom make me some that will have very small bamboo needles (2.5 inches), and the tubing in between will be 6 inches long, so in total, they will be 11 inches long. The shortest circ I've been able to find is 12", and they still seem too long because of the needle length. I figured that at least with the shorter needle tips, it would help. Where would I find the 9" ones if my custom ones don't work?

I did actually have the idea to use stitch markers for needle placement and was wondering if that would work, so I appreciate you confirming that. It's wonderful to hear from someone who has done this. I know I should learn DPNs correctly, and I will - someday. I may not learn them for socks, but I WILL learn them because I want to do things the correct way. The way I've been doing socks just hasn't been........fun for me, and I keep seeing people say that if it's not fun, then I shouldn't be doing it. Right? lol

With that said, I am going to try all methods. I'll try DPNs one more time just because I'm not going to give up after only one try. I'll try magic loop, and possibly two circs. But mostly, I REALLY want to try one short circ because that just sounds like the most fun to me. I love knitting hats on one circ, so it seems like it'd be the most similar and the most fun.

Thanks so much for posting!
Terri

boo1
06-03-2008, 06:22 AM
I have a friend who ONLY makes her socks on 12 inch Addis and another who makes hers on 9 inch Hiya Hiya needles for the leg part of the sock. They swear by them!

pat1934
06-03-2008, 01:01 PM
When you make your join, the "gap" between the 1st and 3rd (or 4th if you are using 5 needles) should be toward your body with the yarn from the ball above the needles. Still in back as if to knit, but above the other needles.

Azlynn
06-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Okay, well I've learned some great stuff from this board.

1) I CAN knit socks on one short circ. I'm definitely going to give that a try.

2) I CAN also do it on DPNs. I need to learn to do it correctly, and I will keep trying until I figure it out. I'll keep looking for videos that give a clearer demonstration that will help, and I'll eventually get the hang of it. I'm quite proficient in using them incorrectly, but I'm finding little things now where that's causing a problem. I'll learn them correctly, and just to say I did it, I WILL do another sock on them.

3) After I've done that, I'll most likely go back to my short circ once I receive it. LOL

Thank you all so much for your help! I'm going to re-watch the video here, because I swear when they're joining the gap on DPNs it looks like it's at the top away from her body, which is why I learned it that way. I must have been twisting my head wrong while watching it or something....;)

I'll post my updates when I've tried both.

Thank you all again!

knitlover
06-03-2008, 05:13 PM
Azlynn, this is Knitlover again responding to your reply to my comment. I will try to get back to you about the short cirulars with more specific information, but I have to say that I only just found them. In general, I have knitted socks on the shortest Addi Turbos I could find. But I also have to hasten to add that I am a little disturbed by you comment that you have to try all these other methods (magic loop etc.) because you feel you need to learn to do socks the "right" way. Azlyn, the "right" way is the way that works for you and accomplishes what you want to accomplish! There have been a lot of people knitting over the years who have discouraged a lot of new knitters by their insistence on doing things in what they will describe as the "right" way. The consequence of that kind of approach is that a lot of people who could have been happily knitting away for years never got started in the first place! And that seems like a shame. But don't misunderstand me, I think there's always room for learning new approaches and techniques, but that definitely doesn't discount something that has worked well for you!

On thing I forgot to mention in my original answer to you regards casting on the ribbing of a sock. I told you that I cast on with a larger needle - only on that row - and then knit my socks flat for an inch or so before joining in knitting circularly. What I forgot to add was that, after the socks are finished, of course, you are going to have to sew that little spot which was knitted flat together. It's obviously no big deal - and the world definitely won't come to an end if you don't do it! But, just to tidy things up, it's probably a good idea. If I can be of further assistence, please let me know.

Knitlover

Azlynn
06-03-2008, 05:46 PM
Aww thanks Knitlover. What I meant by doing it the "right" way wasn't in terms of making socks the right way, but in knitting in the round the correct way. Since I knit in the round backward, which is incorrect and is causing many problems, I really do need to learn to do that correctly. I don't know, at this point, which method of sock knitting will be the "right" way for me - it may be short circ, magic loop, or it may even be DPN after I learn how not to do that backward. Does that make more sense?

knitlover
06-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Well, a little, but I just hope you don't feel inhibited because someone is telling you that this approach to knitting is "right" and that approach (whatever it is) may be wrong! Knitting, in my experience, is really not that cut and dried, although many people seem to suggest that it is! I have used double-pointed needles for knitting socks, hats etc. I just don't care much for having all those needles to contend with - it's not that I can't do it! If you are having ladders develop between your needles, it's probably because you simply aren't pulling your stitches tight enough in that area. The simple solution would be just to tighten up when moving from one needle to another. But, if you eliminate the move from one needle to the next - as you would in knitting socks with a short circular needle - you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. Of course, you do understand, I'm sure, that there does come a point - when you are decreasing for the toe shaping - that you do have to change to double-pointed needles because eventually you will decrease to the point that the circular needles, no matter how short, will be unable to accommodate the sock at that point. I can't remember at the moment how few stitches you end up with, but it seems to me that it gets down to about 8 or so! Obviously, you're not going to find a circular needle that short! Anyway, as other's have said, DO NOT DISPAIR! You'll get it!

Azlynn
06-04-2008, 02:49 AM
I don't feel like anyone has told me that any certain approach to knitting is cut and dried - only that my knitting inside out is incorrect, which unfortunately, I agree with. I do like DPNs and feel they have their place, like you said, when you get so few stitches you just can't fit them on anything else, but I'm really excited to not have to contend with the stress of fighting with my ladders, learning not to knit backward, etc. I'll learn not to knit backward in good time, but I'm feeling so much stress with that whole thing right now, I'm actually feeling like not even knitting at all. Up until this sock I finished last week, I couldn't go a single day without knitting, and now I'm just so disgusted and feel like I do it so wrong and I'm embarrassed about it and feel like I can't do anymore projects until I feel ready to tackle learning to not do it inside out anymore. I just don't feel ready to do that, so I'm not even knitting currently. I'll get over it, and I really appreciate your encouragement. It really does help. You seem to have sensed that going on with me and are helping so much. My knitting is my therapy. If I can't even do my own "therapy" right, what can I do? LOL

marlajap
06-04-2008, 09:42 AM
:knitting: [quote=Cirrus;1114665]
and it is possible that the ladders you are having are due to the fact that you are knitting the wrong way around.

Well, maybe, but I must confess that I have also been working on my very first sock, and also figured out it was inside-out while I was turning the heel. However, I've been knitting wrister after wrister on dpns since January, all inside out and all without ladders. I pull the first two and last two stitches of each needle super-super tight, and don't have much of a problem with ladders.

BTW - I did manage to turn my sock right-side-out when it was time to graft the toes. It looks pretty good, but needs to be washed, perhaps blocked. It's not "huge", but it does seem to be a bit baggy in the foot area. On to sock #2 last night, which is going a bit slower as I get used to using my dpns the correct way! I swear, I learn something new about knitting at least once a week!!

marlajap
06-04-2008, 09:49 AM
Azlynn - you CAN do this. I did it just last night, after reading through this thread. I watched Amy's video again, pulled out the pictures in Silver's sock tutorial and just fought my way through it. I cast on 3 times before I got it right, and it wasn't at all comfortable until about 5 rounds through. I still need to *think* about it, can't just knit on auto-pilot, but it's working and I know it will be a whole lot easier when I get to the heel flap, turning the heel, etc., now that I'm doing it right side out! I'm an old dog, so to speak (49 yrs old and a knitting newbie), so if I can do, this you can, too! Send me a PM if you want more sympathy and support from someone who's going through the same thing! We'll do this together. :-)

Cirrus
06-05-2008, 11:58 PM
I don't know how to explain WHY I can't do it. I get the concept, but the problem is....when I join them. it doesn't seem possible to join them any other way. Do I need to join them then go backward and start knitting? Or do you join them somehow the same way you're explaining that you knit? Did that even make sense? LOL I have no idea how to explain my problem any other way. (I am probably the same person that asked this when I first started, but I was just winging it and decided to compensate since I couldn't figure it out)

The way I join needle #1 and needle #3 (or #4 if using 4 needles) is to transfer the last stitch on #3 over to #1 and then lift what WAS the first stitch on #1 OVER the stitch you just transferred and put it on #3. You have just traded places with these two stitches, and your socks are joined in the round. You still have the same number of stitches on each of the two needles involved. Then start knitting clockwise. It's a little clumsy and awkward for a row or two, but then things settle out and all goes well. Hope this makes sense.

Lisa R.
06-06-2008, 08:50 AM
Just curious....have you looked at Silver's sock tutorials??

http://www.cometosilver.com/socks/

Lisa R.
06-06-2008, 08:56 AM
I don't feel like anyone has told me that any certain approach to knitting is cut and dried - only that my knitting inside out is incorrect, which unfortunately, I agree with. I do like DPNs and feel they have their place, like you said, when you get so few stitches you just can't fit them on anything else, but I'm really excited to not have to contend with the stress of fighting with my ladders, learning not to knit backward, etc. I'll learn not to knit backward in good time, but I'm feeling so much stress with that whole thing right now, I'm actually feeling like not even knitting at all. Up until this sock I finished last week, I couldn't go a single day without knitting, and now I'm just so disgusted and feel like I do it so wrong and I'm embarrassed about it and feel like I can't do anymore projects until I feel ready to tackle learning to not do it inside out anymore. I just don't feel ready to do that, so I'm not even knitting currently. I'll get over it, and I really appreciate your encouragement. It really does help. You seem to have sensed that going on with me and are helping so much. My knitting is my therapy. If I can't even do my own "therapy" right, what can I do? LOL

I think you should knit what and how you please. I started making socks by making little Christmas ornament stockings...I kept knitting them inside out, as you are, and couldn't for the life of me figure it out. I finally decided to just do it and not worry about it, but the heel turn was always messed up, and I couldn't get the gusset right doing it that way.

But if trying socks is frustrating you right now, set them aside and do something that you know you can do successfully (by YOUR definition!).

DON'T let the comments of others discourage you from doing what you love. You can come back to socks another time, or you might never knit socks---but that won't keep you from knitting *everything*!! There are plenty of things to knit!

hartleystudio
06-06-2008, 09:26 AM
Here is a link to a thread I started a few weeks ago and everyone was so kind! Aparently, there are MANY different ways to join your stitches when you're working in the round.

http://www.knittinghelp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79736

Good luck, I have had great success with these tips!

kindermen
06-06-2008, 10:16 AM
I knit my socks on the KA circular needles and LOVE them. I switch to DP for the flap, turning the heel, picking up stitched ,then back to the circular until time to decrease for the toe. I find my socks are more portable and can stop anywhere in the knitting if i am in public and need to stop. I can do socks on double points but prefer the KA's. Are those the kind you bought?

rachejm
06-06-2008, 10:45 AM
I did my first socks on dpns. It took some getting my head around but it worked out. I highly recommend Silver's Sock Tutorial if you haven't already looked at it. I didn't even use a pattern for my first pair just the tutorial and my socks looked pretty darn good - for a first try. If you search the forum you will find lots of tips and tricks that other people use for ladders. Keep at it, experiment, you'll find a way that works for you. Good luck and let us know how the custom circ works out.

Azlynn
06-06-2008, 02:07 PM
What are "KA circular needles"?

The circs I bought are some bamboo ones that I had custom made so the needles are really short, more like just tips, and the cord between is really short. I just got them, so I'm getting close to being ready to trying again.

I do know how to make socks and have successfully made 2 socks (a miniature one and a full size - albeit giant and mis-sized one). My problem isn't knowing how to make them, it's that I knit in the round inside out, and I can't figure out my orientation to knit inside-right because it just seems backward to me. I'm working on it, and another very helpful person from here is going to take pictures of her doing it the correct way since she had the same problem and is just learning to do it inside right, so she knows exactly what pictures and angles I will need to see.

When I did my sock, I had to keep reminding myself that since it was inside out, come time to do the heel, I had to turn it inside right, do the heel, pick up stitches for the gusset, then turn back inside out to re-join. My ladders could potentially have been from the fact that I knit inside out, or it could have been that I was knitting them with chunky cheap yarn as my practice yarn. I felt the need to do that to save my sock yarn for when I got better.

I was thinking if I did my socks on one short circ, I'd avoid my ladders and it'd be easier. I've tried the tugging thing at the end and beginning of each needle, and that didn't help. I have knitted many other things on DPNs without ladders, and those were all inside out, and on cheap yarn, but not as cheap and not chunky. Who knows. I'm at a loss, but I'm going to learn to knit inside-right and on a short circ to see if that helps.

Whether or not I like knitting socks has yet to be decided, but before I decide that, I WILL accomplish a decent looking pair of socks in order to say that I was able to do it and just didn't like it. I will not quit just because I'm not good at it.....it's just not my way. Plus, I bought some gorgeous sock yarn that I HAVE to make into socks because it's calling my name. lol

I do appreciate all of your comments and suggestions.
Terri

kindermen
06-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Yarn Market carries these 9" circ needles. You can also try www.inthemaking.com this is my LYS and they carry them. I LOVE them!!

Veganknit
07-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Azlyn, I SO understand your frustration with double-pointed needles while knitting socks. I love knitting socks, but have never cared much for knitting them on double pointed needles, so I have adapted a pattern which is generally supposed to be knitted on either 4 or 5 needles and knit the sock on a short circular needle, as short as I can find. And, at the moment, my LYS is ordering some size 2,3 and 4 circulars that are (drumroll please!) 9 inches long! Up to this time I have been using - successfully, believe it or not - Addi Turbos - which I love, by the way - in the above mentioned sizes. The way you do it is to simply put stitch markers at the point where you are supposed to change needles. That's really all there is to it. And I know you can do it because I would bet that your feet - or at least the feet you are knitting for - are probably bigger than mine; I wear a size 5 1/2 shoe! NOBODY has feet smaller than that - or at least it doesn't happen very often! Plus, I usually start my socks out flat in order to avoid the moebus problem (did I spell that correctly?) that can develop when you start your sock from the cuff. In other words, I cast on my stitches, however many there are, flat (usually using a needle that is quite a few sizes LARGER that the ones the socks will be knitted on. The reason for that is that you need to have the flexibility in your cast-on row in order to be sure the socks will fit over your foot when they are finished. (of course, if you are knitting toe-up socks, you have to remember to bind off [when you arrive at the last row of the cuff] using a much larger needle than the sock is knitted on, as well - for the same reason. You want to be able to get the sock on and off comfortably. I also try to remember to buy yarn for knitting socks that has built in reinforcement (nylon or polyester something or other) because otherwise you will definitely (and I speak from experience) walk holes in your socks. If there isn't reinforcement built in, you need to buy a reinforcing yarn to use along with your sock yarn on the heels and toes; those are the area where most wear occurs.

I hope I have given you enough direction that you can follow what I am telling you to do. If not, please feel free to write me privately or again on this forum! I will be glad to help as much as possible. I have been knitting for years, love knitting socks and have also taught knitting and crocheting and various other kinds of needlework.

Knitlover
I too want to give the small circulars a try...found the 9 inch ones! I am a new sock knitter though and a bit scared! He, he. When it comes time to deal with the heel do I need to use a stitch holder or??? If you would be willing to correspond off-forum with a timid new sock knitter to help me on my first pair let me know...I would GREATLY appreciate the help but don't want to bore the "socks" off everyone on the forum with all my questions.
Sue

usamacka
01-03-2011, 12:30 AM
I am enjoying reading the posts about the socks because I am going through the same discussions in my head. i saw a 9 inch circular advertised. I love my circs and doing my first sock with the dpn has been a challenge as well. I was happy to read blocking may take care of a few issues.
After I was finished with my first sock, my daughter had to try it on too. One of my sock knitting friends swears that once you wear your own handmade you will never want to go back! I think the interesting part will be....trying different types of yarn as well. Will post photo and more specifics later.