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View Full Version : Will this work to shrink patterns?

Mike
07-07-2008, 04:34 PM
I got Knits For Men (http://www.knitpicks.com/Knits+for+Men_BD31109.html) and the smallest any pattern goes is a 44" chest which somehow they figure is a "small" (8"-10" of ease for a small chest size, are these sweaters for wearing over a down filled coat???).
I'm a medium and I like baggy cloths but not that baggy and I guarantee you their models do not have as much ease as they're claiming to give for the sizes.

Anyway, I could figure out how to shrink the chest sizes easy enough but the arm hole shaping, necks and saddle shoulders are giving me problems.

Since I call 44" a large by the ease I desire and by my thinking they have Large, X-Large, XX-Large and Freakin'-Huge given,
Can I figured out a pattern in the numbers given and subtract that to get the right ratio?

Like "work until armhole measures 7 (7 1/2, 8, 8 1/2)" would be "work until armhole measures 6 1/2" " for me.

"Work across 37 (40, 43, 46)" would become "work across 34" " for me.

The patterns in the book are for the most part are sweaters men would wear if the patterns weren't so huge.

cam90066
07-07-2008, 06:47 PM
Are there intricate st patts involved that would complicate revamping the numbers? If they're fairly basic you can rework both numbers of sts and rows to downsize a garment. Reducing the armhole is easy enough so long as you do any corresponding neck shaping in the appropriate place.

Not sure that helps...
cam

Mike
07-08-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
How is it easy enough to reduce armhole shaping and get the arms the right size?
The neck shaping corresponds to armhole shaping??? I need a Xanax :wink:

Sounds like you're saying to rewrite the patterns. Problem is the whole book is written with a 44" "small".
I need an easier way or the book is worthless to me.

I did figure out that I can drop a needle size on the cabled sweater to get it to 42" which I can deal with. Maybe even throw in an extra cable and get it to go down a little more.
The saddle shoulder ribbed sweater would need to be tighter so I think I'll just do a raglan with that pattern stitch.
While I was messing around figuring those out I did some math to what I would like to do and I don't see why it wouldn't work. Everything seems to follow certain ratios (except the saddle of the saddle shoulder pattern).

I don't have a problem with the pattern stitches. That is pretty simple math of making the chest size fit into the multiple of stitches the pattern stitch requires.
I can even handle doing small measurement tweaks.
My issue is with the shaping ratios to get the pieces to fit together and fit after it's done. The sweaters I've made to this point haven't had any special armhole shaping so I'm in the dark about how to write that to match the arm.

suzeeq
07-08-2008, 01:15 PM
Look at the different numbers between the sizes, they should be fairly consistent, 6, 8 or 10 sts difference between the sizes. Determine if you need to go down 1 or 2 sizes according to the differences, then use that for making a sweater that fits you. You can do that on the shaping too. As for making the sleeve fit the armhole, just make sure you shape them the same number of sts and rows.

Mike
07-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Look at the different numbers between the sizes, they should be fairly consistent, 6, 8 or 10 sts difference between the sizes. Determine if you need to go down 1 or 2 sizes according to the differences, then use that for making a sweater that fits you. You can do that on the shaping too. As for making the sleeve fit the armhole, just make sure you shape them the same number of sts and rows.

OK, that's what I was getting at. That makes it easy to adjust the book down a size without making a mistake.
Thanks

Sad thing is the Saddle Shoulder Sweater is the pattern stitch I really want but the saddles are so wide they would completely engulf my shoulders and they don't adjust that for the sizes. The vertical stripes would make me look skinny enough :)
It would be nice to have that pattern nearly written out for me.

suzeeq
07-08-2008, 01:43 PM
You should be able to adjust the size of the saddles somewhat. Is the same st number given for all sizes? There's a free pattern somewhere for an Aran Saddle Shoulder cardigan I think, which should be easy enough to make into a pullover, and you can skip the aran stitches. Can't remember which site it's on, will keep checking into it.

eta - this isn't the one I'm thinking of, but it's free - http://www.unicornbooks.com/pattern_RTsaddleshpo-SQL3.asp
However, the smallest size is 45", though I think it's adaptable to a smaller size.

suzeeq
07-08-2008, 02:09 PM

Mike
07-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Yep, the saddles for all the sizes are 22 stitches.
On the Hulk Hogan model they stay flat on top of his shoulders. On me they would curl around, not including the stretch of the rib pattern that would happen once the weight of the sweater pulls on it.

I suppose by the time I'm up there I'd know how the rows and stitches relate and could remove some stitches from the front and back of the saddle and add that to the rows on the front and back panels.
As long as I remember I did that when it comes to picking up stitches for the neck.

Or I just need to eat more pie and cheesecake :cheering:

Mike
07-08-2008, 02:12 PM

cam90066
07-08-2008, 02:25 PM
How is it easy enough to reduce armhole shaping and get the arms the right size?
The neck shaping corresponds to armhole shaping???

When I design a sweater, or completely revamp an existing pattern (change overall gauge, depth of armholes, etc), I always end up redoing the numbers for armhole/armscye and sleeve cap. As Sue pointed out, so long as they match in terms of BOs/decs joining them shouldn't be a problem.

I ref'd the neckline shaping because where you begin it, how much you do (esp if you plan to alter it) needs to be taken into consideration when you're working the armhole/neckline shaping at the same time. (When to begin each, how much to do, etc.) I usually map out my armhole, neckline and sleeve cap shaping on knitter's graph paper to ensure my numbers make sense (so I don't end up at the shoulders with totally disparate figs front to back). I've not done saddle shoulders but appears you found a viable option.

Good luck.

cam

suzeeq
07-08-2008, 09:58 PM
I think the FLAK is a woman's size, which is more the size of a smaller man.

Mike
07-08-2008, 10:20 PM
I figured that and thought it may do good to search around for a woman's saddle shoulder to get an idea of how many stitches would work.

It's a 6/2 rib so probably anything over 14 should work and I think 3" would probably work to keep it on top of my shoulders.

MerigoldinWA
07-10-2008, 03:06 PM
Mike, I got a good laugh out of some of your comments about the sizes in this book. I saw a picture of the cover on a sale at Interweave Press, I think. It did look huge.

by my thinking they have Large, X-Large, XX-Large and Freakin'-Huge

the Hulk Hogan model

Or I just need to eat more pie and cheesecake

ROFL

Good luck on the changes. Those sorts of things are more difficult than they seem like they ought to be, at least for me. I am not a knitting genius, I wish I was. :-) I didn't start trying to change things and design for myself until I was past 50, so I am behind. LOL I think tackling these problems early on in your knitting career is a good idea, you learn so much and your skills can grow faster.

I'm rooting for you!!

Mike
07-10-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm making the one on the cover right now, in blue.
It's the one I'm using one size smaller needles. I'm not far enough into the cable pattern to know for sure but I think it will come out about right for the type of sweater it is. So there shouldn't be much reworking on this one.
Hopefully that will get me to understand what goes on with armhole shaping and then I'll be able to adjust and design all I want.

I didn't start knitting until I was about 45, but I figured early on when looking at men's patterns I was going to have to do some design to get what I wanted so I got "Sweater Design in Plain English" for my first book.

Sometime before fall I'm going to totally design a sweater for a great niece. I flipped the arms and knitted them on with the first one, I figure I want a more scalloped collar, more flared body, a looser knit and to work it top down. May as well take the measurements and do it myself.