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amala
03-04-2010, 06:48 PM
when i first learned to knit i wasn't knitting the proper way. instead of going through the stitch from the front i was going through it from the back. i've only been knitting for 8 months or so but i find knitting through the back of the stitch to be so much easier.

is this going to cause a problem later?

i have since learned the proper way to knit but i find that when i am only using garter stitch for an entire project i prefer to knit through the back.

thoughts?

lissaplus2
03-04-2010, 06:56 PM
You are essentially twisting every stitch you knit thro the back..
The only prob i can see is that you will come accross patterns that call for twisted stitches...ie: KTBL ..which means you would have to knit thro the front loop on those stitches...you would purl the way you did before...other than that, I dont see an issue...
Im sure others will pipe in here, but that is my opinion.

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 07:14 PM
As long as you do it on garter stitch projects I guess it couldn't hurt. But it will make your stitches tighter and if you do something that you want to match the gauge for, it can be a problem.

Abby123
03-04-2010, 07:50 PM
This will sound like a dumb question. But is the back leg of the stitch the one that leans closest to the right needle? If so your stitches won't be twisted.

In combined or eastern knitting, the back leg leans toward the right needle. In other styles, the front leg leans toward the right needle. Or when working on circulars in the round, the front leg leans. As long as you knit into the leaning leg, your stitches won't be twisted.

Most pattern use a foundation of stockinette. The reason combined leans that way is because the purl stitches are worked with the yarn under the needle. Not over the top. This keeps the stitches in alignment. If you don't adjust on the purl side, then the stitches will be twisted.

If you knit in garter stitch (where you knit all the rows) the stitches will be twisted. Which doesn't look as obvious. But makes a much tighter pattern. And makes it hard to get the stitches off the needle.

If you make stockinette, and don't adjust the purl side, then the stitches will twist. Also a much tighter fabric with the V on the right side crossed.

amala
03-04-2010, 08:39 PM
Abby123-i have no idea what most of that means. :)
i'm not sure what you mean by lean. each stitch i guess leans left or right? when i am doing them through the back they are leaning left to right. the top of the stitch is left and the bottom of the stitch is towards the right needle. is that what you mean?

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 08:54 PM
A stitch has two legs - one drapes over the front of the needle, the other is in back. Generally the front leg is also the closest to the tip of the needle, and the back leg is further away. If you wrap the purls so that the back leg is closer to the tips, you would knit into that one so the sts don't twist. If you knit into the front one which is further from the tip, that will twist the stitch.

Abby123
03-04-2010, 08:58 PM
I can see why my description might be hard to understand if you haven't been knitting long. Sorry about that. The easiest way to tell which leg leans is to slide the stitch off the needle. Which part (front or back) is toward the right hand side? That is the leaning edge.

I gather you have already knit a scarf in garter pattern (where you knit all the stitches on all the rows.) Think of the intertwined bumps as mountains. Stretch the work apart & look in the valleys. The knit stitches should look like a V. If they look like a x with a V above it, then your stitches are being worked twisted.

If they are twisted, then yes you will have trouble when you move to more advanced patterns.

Hopefully, that makes more sense.

N0obKnitter
03-04-2010, 08:59 PM
I am confused, what is this "knitting in the back" look like?

Abby123
03-04-2010, 09:11 PM
I like Sue's idea of calling it the leg closest to the needle tip. That is probably the easier way to describe it.

N0obKnitter
03-04-2010, 09:19 PM
Still mystified...is this an English knitting thang?

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 09:33 PM
Yeah, 'lean' doesn't quite describe it.

It's not english or continental Noobknitter, but just knitting. Look at your sts - they each have two legs, one of them is closer to the tip than the other. That's all.

You might look into combined knitting (http://www.anniemodesitt.com) where the purls are wrapped 'backwards' on purpose and the knits are done through the back leg to prevent twisting.

Abby123
03-04-2010, 09:33 PM
I am confused, what is this "knitting in the back" look like?

I assume, she is knitting into the part of the stitch that sits on the back of the needle. Not the front.

When you work garter stitch, this twist is hidden in the valleys. So it is less noticable. But when you do stockinette, it is much harder to knit twisted stitches. Think of patterns where it says, knit2 together thru back loop. That is a twist decrease. And they are cumbersome to make. So if you have been knitting a while, you realize that the stitches just aren't coming off the needle easily & naturally correct them.

I looked for a video. But couldn't find anything.

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 09:38 PM
Here's a picture of Twisted Stockinette (http://www.knittingfool.com/pages/stCatalog2.guest.cfm?StitchID=164&name=Twisted%20Stockinette&numofst=1&stplus=0&rows=2&rplus=0&sym=0) which is the result you get when you twist the knit stitches.

N0obKnitter
03-04-2010, 09:42 PM
I'm such a n0ob I haven't followed a pattern yet, but that photo helped. My knitting looks like waves, rather than arrows like in that photo.

Abby123
03-04-2010, 09:46 PM
I hunted around & found this video on twisted stockinette. It shows knitting into the back. And the finished work.

You only use it if you want twists in your stitches.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-twisted-stockinette-stitch-knitting-271029/

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 09:48 PM
Good, then I guess you're doing fine.

N0obKnitter
03-04-2010, 09:54 PM
I'm worried I'm doing it wrong, so here's photos of the mystery project (possible future scarf.)

I don't totally "get" stockinette etc, I just um, knit:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/4407099685_4ea0e3f0c9.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4407097783_dbfaa093fe.jpg

I know there are mistakes not sure how I made them and they bug me.

looked at different stitch vids, I think I'm doing garter all the time? I knit both sides.

suzeeq
03-04-2010, 10:23 PM
Your result is garter stitch when you knit every row. You can also get garter stitch by purling every row.

There's a little unevenness in your tension, but that improves with practice. It's too hard to see your knit sts because the garter pulls up the rows and kind of obscures them. Once you start doing purl rows, then you'll be able to see the knits more easily.

amala
03-05-2010, 01:42 PM
oh i get it abby123 alright now.

thanks for the explaination suzeeq. made a bit more sense.

the front stitch is the one that leans closest to the right needle. so my stitches are twisted?

i'm slowly relearning to knit through the front so that i don't run into any problems when it comes time to follow a patter callingfor more the just garter stitch.

AngelaR
03-05-2010, 08:20 PM
Amala, you were not knitting wrong. You were knitting either Combined or Eastern style and neither of those is wrong. If you would like more information, just try looking stuff up on YouTube, it's all over the place.

All over the net (http://www.thedietdiary.com/blog/lucia/374) there are sites dedicated to both types (http://www.anniemodesitt.com/) of knitting. If you knit from the back loop, inserting the needle from the right hand side, and purl by inserting the needle into the front of the loop from the right hand side, that is combined. If you do this style you must make sure your yarn is wrapped around the needle in the same orientation knitting or purling (I recommend clockwise). If you knit from the back loop, inserting the needle into the back of the loop on the right hand side and purl by inserting the needle into the back of the loop from the left side then that is Eastern. It's an incredibly efficient way to knit. Actually, it's combined knitting in a mirror. No right, no wrong, just a different way to knit.

There is no right way or wrong way to knit. There is your way, the way that works for you. If anyone tells you any different, just smile politely and snicker lightly as they walk away. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/018/3/e/_devil_by_sml_e.gif

amala
03-05-2010, 08:38 PM
AngelaR you are right it isn't "wrong" it's just different. and of course i've decided that when knitting only in garter there's no reason not do it the way i have. however i am slowly learning to do it through the front so i will be able to follow a pattern and not have to worry about any twisted stiches or problems following patterns or anything. thank you for the words of encouragement. i have to keep reminding myself "it's not wrong" but that's the words that come out. either way it fun.

Abby123
03-05-2010, 10:01 PM
the front stitch is the one that leans closest to the right needle. so my stitches are twisted?

Yes, they will. If you are knitting into the back loop.

In garter stitch, you knit all the rows. So if you twist the first row. The only way to correct it is to loop the yarn from over the needle, then under it & pull off the stitch. The opposite direction of the way a standard knit stitch is made. It is possible to knit this way. But I think in is more cumbersome & harder to get even tension.

The advantage to combined is the way purls are made. Many people find them quicker. Or prefer to hold their needles so that they knit in the back. But with combined the stitches are kept in alignment by the reverse movement of the purl row (in stockinette.)

Since you are working garter stitch pattern. You have no purl rows to "fix" the twist. And I think it is a better practice to learn to knit without twisting the stitches. So yep, knit in the front.

suzeeq
03-06-2010, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by amala http://www.knittinghelp.com/forum/images/ca_serenity_purple/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.knittinghelp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1280333#post1280333) the front stitch is the one that leans closest to the right needle. so my stitches are twisted?


As long as you knit into that front one, then your sts will not be twisted.

cheley
03-06-2010, 09:45 AM
I'm worried I'm doing it wrong, so here's photos of the mystery project (possible future scarf.)

I don't totally "get" stockinette etc, I just um, knit:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/4407099685_4ea0e3f0c9.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4407097783_dbfaa093fe.jpg

I know there are mistakes not sure how I made them and they bug me.

looked at different stitch vids, I think I'm doing garter all the time? I knit both sides. When you are working on "straight" needles,in order to achieve stockinette stitch (aka V's) you have knit a row then purl the next row. It's neither an English or Cont style, you work the rows using any tech..just K1rw P1rw.

AngelaR
03-06-2010, 09:57 AM
As long as you knit into that front one, then your sts will not be twisted.

Don't hate me but this is not necessarily true. From my tireless research into combined knitting and the purling problem... If you wrap the yarn on the needle, clockwise, on both techniques, you will get a better stitch pattern. It's looser and you don't get those weird bumps on the knit side.

This is the thing, because combined knitters are never twisting the loops via the knit stitch, the purl stitch makes the stockinette stitch look odd. This really bugged me when knitting back and forth, so, because I wanted my socks and husband's sweater to look good and uniform, I began Eastern knitting when having to do stockinette. This gave me a uniform looking stitch, a looser weave to my fabric.

Combined knitting is incredibly efficient and fast, however, it does come with its own set of unique problems (doing decreases can be a real pain) but it is a good way to learn knitting because of the fact that you're always approaching the loop from the same side.

And I will be perfectly honest, I just can't master the Continental knit stitch. :wink:

cheley
03-06-2010, 10:03 AM
Don't hate me but this is not necessarily true. From my tireless research into combined knitting and the purling problem... If you wrap the yarn on the needle, clockwise, on both techniques, you will get a better stitch pattern. It's looser and you don't get those weird bumps on the knit side.

This is the thing, because combined knitters are never twisting the loops via the knit stitch, the purl stitch makes the stockinette stitch look odd. This really bugged me when knitting back and forth, so, because I wanted my socks and husband's sweater to look good and uniform, I began Eastern knitting when having to do stockinette. This gave me a uniform looking stitch, a looser weave to my fabric.

Combined knitting is incredibly efficient and fast, however, it does come with its own set of unique problems (doing decreases can be a real pain) but it is a good way to learn knitting because of the fact that you're always approaching the loop from the same side.

And I will be perfectly honest, I just can't master the Continental knit stitch. :wink: Angela when you refer to Clockwise....With what tech? Throw/English or Continental......What are using? Isn't "Eastern" considered combo? As I am curious on what technique you use....Thank You Chele

suzeeq
03-06-2010, 10:34 AM
I think you're throwing in a lot of information the OP doesn't need at this point. If her front st is closest to the tip of the needle, she's wrapping her sts correctly for Western knitting. And clockwise/c. clockwise confuses me. It all depends on how you look at the needles, from the tip or looking down at them as they're held in your hands.

cheley
03-06-2010, 11:18 AM
I think you're throwing in a lot of information the OP doesn't need at this point. If her front st is closest to the tip of the needle, she's wrapping her sts correctly for Western knitting. And clockwise/c. clockwise confuses me. It all depends on how you look at the needles, from the tip or looking down at them as they're held in your hands. Yes, this topic is going in a different direction than the original post....I am asking Angela a question regarding her tech...Let me re-phrase my question....

suzeeq
03-06-2010, 12:14 PM
I'm sorry, cheley, I meant to direct my reply to Angela, so it could be confusing that it was directly below yours.

I understood your question. Clockwise or c clockwise doesn't matter as to technique, it is how you wrap around the needle and can depend on how you view the needle, as I said before.

Combined is a 'combination' of western and eastern styles. That's what Angela uses which is wrapping (or rather picking) the purls 'backwards' then knitting the sts on the next row tbl so they are not twisted. This can be done with the yarn in either the right or left hand. It's easier to purl with the yarn in the left by this method, rather than the standard continental purl.

AngelaR
03-06-2010, 11:40 PM
Angela when you refer to Clockwise....With what tech? Throw/English or Continental......What are using? Isn't "Eastern" considered combo? As I am curious on what technique you use....Thank You Chele

Eastern is not Combined (I thought it was too!) When I was researching the purl stitch, because two of the best sites for combined knitting showed two different ways the yarn was oriented around the needle to form the loop, I found that Eastern Knitting works the loop from the back and is basically just Continental Knitting in a mirror. So in Eastern you are twisting the yarn with the purl stitch and untwisting it with the knit stitch (opposite of Western Knitting).

Now, when I refer to clockwise, I mean that when your yarn wraps around your needle (whether you throw or grab) it rotates in a clockwise fashion, knitting and purling. If you will slow down your knitting enough to really observe what you are doing with your yarn, you will see exactly what you're doing with your yarn. And then, if you're anything like me, you begin to agonize of leading edges and which way the stitches are leaning, if at all.

It took me over 20 years to really look at what I was doing, so if ever there was a time to obsess, this is a good one. I hope it's made me a better knitter for it.