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pbs
09-05-2010, 07:33 AM
I've gotten brave and am attempting a baby sweater for my grandson. I want to get started today; however it is for Berrocco Touche' and I plan to use Berrocco Comfort. They are both worsted and I don't think it will matter, but the Touche' says the gauge is 4.75 and the Comfort says its 4.5. What adjustments do I need to make and is it even possible?

suzeeq
09-05-2010, 09:40 AM
That's the gauge for the yarn and it's more to classify them into weight ranges, and these are close enough. You need to match the gauge in the pattern, so start with the same needle and see how that works; you may need to go up a size.

pbs
09-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Would it be acceptable to swatch it out, find the difference between the number of stitches per inch in mine and their's and then add additional stitches to mine to compensate? Does that make sense at all?
I'm also having a problem with my purl row--I seem to be adding a stitch on the purl rows--at least the first one. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

suzeeq
09-05-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't really think you'll have any trouble matching the gauge and it's way easier to switch needle sizes than try to add more stitches. Otherwise your shaping might be off. Unless there's a larger size of the pattern, then you can use that.

When you begin the purl row, make sure your yarn is in front, not in back; if it's in the back then you're probably bringing it over the needle to purl the st. Move the yarn a bit out to the side edge, then bring to the front.

pbs
09-05-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm sorry Suzeeq, but I'm totally lost on gauge. The yarn it calls for has a 20 gauge for 4" and the one I'm using has a 18 gauge for 4". Since I'm totally new to knitting anything besides a blankie, can you please walk me through what to do step by step.

You're totally right about the extra stitch on purl--I figured out while I was stitching that I had my yarn in the back to begin the row which gave me an extra stitch.

suzeeq
09-05-2010, 02:31 PM
What does the pattern say for gauge? That's what you want to go by, not the gauge on the yarn label. All the label gauge indicates is that one is slightly thinner than the other, but the difference isn't enough to adjust your stitches. Cast on about 24 sts with the Comfort on the needle used in the pattern, and knit about 3", then do a couple rows of garter and use the next size larger needle for about 3". Measure both sets of sts to see which one is closer to the pattern's gauge and use that needle.

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 03:34 AM
MOST patterns give the gauge in a section above the actual pattern. it may be short: "20st27r" or something like this... (meaning 20 stitches, 27 rows) ... but you mostly find something.

if not: there mostly is a sketch for the parts of the finished piece. look for a section in plain stochinette or garter in that pullover and find out how many stitches that section has. Then you know the stitches and inches for that section. You can do the math then.

But really: Mostly the pattern has that specific information for you.

Is your pattern available online? if so: let us see the link and we can be of more help!

changing the needle size has the result of changing the stitch size.

a bigger needle makes a bigger stitch. So if you do a swatch and have the wrong number of stitches in it, go up or down needle sizes until you get approximately right. (more stitches into the 4 inch? use a smaller needle. less stitches into the 4 inch? use a bigger needle).

but really: with baby cloth: it is not ALL that important to be dead on with your measures.

what size does the baby wear? what sizes does your pattern give you?

I tend to use yarn on baby outfits that is just SOMEwhere in the general range and then make a pattern several "nominal" sizes to big or small for the little one by the stitch and row instructions (making sure that I take the measures in inches or cm of the size I really want). And babies DO grow pretty fast - so rather overshoot by a little then remain too small.

pbs
09-06-2010, 06:51 AM
My problem is that the pattern was "written" by the owner of my LYS and it's very vague. It says a gauge of 4.75 per inch and I'm using a slightly thinner yarn that it calls for. This is for my grandson and I want to be sure it's big enough. I'm a beginning knitter and I've never made a garment, so I'm a little stressed about it anyway. I'm currently knitting a swatch as suggested by Suzeeq and we'll see where I turn up after that. I'll probably need help interpreting my swatch. I'm assuming my LYN wrote the pattern because I haven't been able to find the pattern on the internet--it's called Touche' Boys Jacket for 1 year (2 years). It's just a little hooded jacket with ribbing around the bottom and I want to add a couple of rows of contrasting color yarn down the front and across the bottom, plus stripe the sleeves so it looks like and "athletic" sweater. We're Alabama fans, so I'm doing it in red and white. I'll have to change the pattern to do the striping so if you know of a pattern that looks like that, PLEASE let me know. Can you tell I'm way in over my head?

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 08:44 AM
hi!
if the pattern says that gauge: fine, that is your reference point.

make your swatch. count it out. tell us the result. If you differ from the instructions, let us know how many stitches you have in e.g. the front piece. then we can tell you, by how much your garment will be off and if it needs to be fixed or is fine.

don't stress that much. Things look way more scary in the fog than bright light. Just keep asking and we keep telling.

you want stripes in your hoodie. Good choice, I like it. Team look: great.

but you do not have to change the pattern for making them.
I assume your pattern will tell you how many rows of knitting you need for the front, the back and the sleeves (and the hood) or (more likely) it will tell you for how many inches you will keep going with something.

Well, you just go ahead and substitute one yarn for the other at the beginning of a row. (typically one uses a right side row to start a new color, but that only matters if you do garter stitch). then you work that row, work back in that yarn and: there you go: a stripe of 2 rows tall is done.
If that is all you want: change back to your original color.

If you do a taller stripe, twist the original color yarn and the stripe color yarn once around one another before you work row 3. then you do not have a trailing thread at the side (it is called "cabling up" sometimes).

the same thing you do, if there are more stripes in the other color and they are not soooo far appart (lets say about 6-8 row max). then you cable up the stripe color and use it again when it is time. for longer stretches: cut your yarn, leaving a tail to weave in and start over once it is time for a stripe.

you make your life incredibly more easy if your stripes or the main color always start in a right side row. (meaning they come in even numbers of rows wide). then all your yarn changes happen on the same side of the piece and you do not get confused.

the stripes you can just ignore, though, in the counting of rows or measuring of inches for your pattern. it will still be the same length.

I assume you chose the same type yarn for both colors? then the size will be identical anyways.

if you do stuff like those stripes, pay close attention to the "brand name garment" about where to place the stripes and how to combine them. The eye is very used to that and recognizes differences quickly. the big brands have it figured out well.

I could imagine to do the cast on and 2 rows along each piece in the stripe color (in the ribbing then) to give a professional touch.

also little accessories sometimes really make it. Can you get a sew-on-tag somewhere? A small thing with the team logo? partially a key chain attachment, earring or the like... if you mount that (sew on) somewhere on the piece, that gives a very professional touch. I like that with garments because it takes all prejudice to the right side: "Great piece!" comes first, then "where from". If you don't add anything like that, fine anyways, of course.

suzeeq
09-06-2010, 09:44 AM
Then you want to try for a gauge of 4.75 sts per inch, which is 19 sts over 4" and a lot easier to figure out than that .75 st. So yes, tell us what happens when you get the sample knit with both needles and we can go from there.

Don't freak out, remember everything is knit one stitch and one row at a time, so even the most complicated seeming project can be simplified. We're here to help you out.

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 11:38 AM
Don't freak out, remember everything is knit one stitch and one row at a time, so even the most complicated seeming project can be simplified. We're here to help you out.


:thumbsup: :knitting:

pbs
09-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Thank you both so very much. My pattern starts with the back rectangle--1" ribbing, then stockinette for 11", so there's no striping at that point. I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but the pattern doesn't use the striping, but the person who made it striped hers with a 2-row alternating stripe. I've been told there are much easier patterns than this one that uses multiple pieces--such as a one-piece pattern, but I don't know how to find a good one that uses stripes. I have a wonderful LYS here (not the one that "designed" the pattern) and I think they'll help me figure out what to do after completing my rectangle back. I've got a couple of things to do this morning but want to finish my swatch by 2:00 so I can actually start on my piece after that. Hope you'll be available to "interpret" the swatch. Do I still need to swatch with the original needle and the larger needle?

pbs
09-06-2010, 12:59 PM
I just re-read the posts and saw that I do need to swatch with both needles. Sorry--can you tell I'm getting nervous over this? Miss Perfection here wants it to be right and I'm WAY out of my league. Hyper, I had already thought of using the team logo somewhere on the jacket--the pattern uses a zipper and I thought the logo from a keychain would make a really cute zipper pull. Great minds think alike ;)

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 01:26 PM
a zipper pull like that was my thought (I did not know about your zipper, though). so, yup, we think alike.

the stripes are really no problem. Just read my post about it when you get to the stripes.

you only swap one yarn for the other. period. Everything else you do by pattern.

don't worry, you will figure it out. I will check in later and see if you need further help. My spongebob project will be in my hands anyways :D (See "what'cha knitting"). So I will be allert.

PS: I would like to know when your 2pm is :D where are you from? I live in Germany so it definitely is a different time zone, but that does not say all that much for someone with English as mother tongue... I guess somewhere between the coasts is a good bet. :D The further west it is the later in my night.

pbs
09-06-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm in Birmingham, Alabama and it's now 1:13 p.m. Monday afternoon here. My mother-in-law is German--she met my father-in-law during WWII. My husband was born in Hanau (?) Germany and came to the US when he was 7 months old because it took that long to get them over here. My husband has never been back and knows nothing of Germany except what my MIL has told him and he has seen in movies. He has 5 siblings who were born here in the US--none of them speak or know German. Small world, huh.
So what time is it there now?

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 02:41 PM
hi!
here it is 20:30 (8:30 pm) now. our time zone here is 6 hours ahead of east coast time.

MY husband is American. I met him while I did an intership in Boston almost 8 years ago. We now live in Germany together. The world is even smaller, isn't it?
Well, I like my bilingual life.

your husband should really take a trip here (with you of course). I would want to see the place I was born in. Germany has surely changed a lot since your mother in law left if so long ago and has a different feel altogether.

And Germany is SO beautiful and diverse! If you ever need travel advice for Germany, send me a PM and I will fill you in. And think of all the foreign yarn you can buy :)

hyperactive
09-06-2010, 03:15 PM
a video on how to do the stripes, here:

http://garnstudio.com/lang/en/video.php?id=121&sort=2&thumbnails=on&undercategoryid=4&page=4

there are videos for downright everything, so keep the questions coming!

AngelaR
09-07-2010, 07:50 AM
I will give you this one word of warning, as I have found out on a recent baby sweater I am doing for Christmas, sometimes you used the proscribed yarn and needles, and the gauge won't be anywhere close to what the pattern suggests. The pattern called for 6 rows per inch, and I got... 9. To me that's a huge difference, so I used nearly half a ball of yarn swatching and could not get it to come out any differently. I even used different types of needles, just to be sure. I have to admit, my kids thought I was crazy, doing little squares on bamboo, acrylic and metal needles.

I've just been very careful to measure often. I also wrote in to the publisher of the pattern to suggest that either they had a typo in the pattern or had suggested the wrong size needles, even though the number of stitches per inch was good.

hyperactive
09-07-2010, 08:29 AM
I hate pattern mistakes. Especially those that lead you to the wrong thing (and not just leave you puzzled).
Buying the yarn for the pattern or vice versa and then not finding it a match really sucks.

you can recalculate the pattern. But that involves some knowledge about the shaping and the pattern it is done in.

btw: the material of the needles is of much lesser importance than the thickness but I guess you tried them in different sizes, too.

And: i always pull my swatches back out and use the yarn. therefore I never even cut it off. I just knit a row or 2 more than I would and measure save underneath the needle. Most yarn will frog fine and I did not lose anything.


and: one last thing: the number of rows is usually of lesser importance to me. Did the pattern say everything in rows? mostly they do give inches or cm. Then only the shaping might happen to rapidly on your yarn (sleeve decrease and so on).

pbs
09-07-2010, 12:09 PM
This is beginning to sound like more trouble than it's worth!!!! I just wanted to knit, not do brain surgery..... Hyper, when I did my swatches, the needle it called for gave me about 4-1/2 to >5 and the pattern calls for 4.75, so I'm going with it. Tired of worrying with it and ready to stitch. BTW, I'm having a terrible time (actually impossible) finding the center-pull for my Berrocco Comfort yarn. Any suggestions anyone?

pbs
09-07-2010, 12:11 PM
Also is there a difference in the stitch size (or stitches per inch) if you use bamboo or metal? What do most of you normally use?

hyperactive
09-07-2010, 12:41 PM
This is beginning to sound like more trouble than it's worth!!!! I just wanted to knit, not do brain surgery..... Hyper, when I did my swatches, the needle it called for gave me about 4-1/2 to >5 and the pattern calls for 4.75, so I'm going with it. Tired of worrying with it and ready to stitch. BTW, I'm having a terrible time (actually impossible) finding the center-pull for my Berrocco Comfort yarn. Any suggestions anyone?

go, that gauge is good. just do it.
if you do not find the center pull... is it meant to have one? not all coils do!
and you can always use the outer thread. That is my usual way of working. Just with really big coils or "long" coils (like the footlong things I bought in the US), the centerpull is a real blessing.

the material of the needle does not do anything to your gauge - but you might: if you work tighter or more lose with one type of those needles, then it may be a difference. But that you have to see for yourself.
For me that choice often depends on the yarn I am using - since I have some sizes double - and some work better on wood, some better on metal... I just try it out and go ahead.

pbs
09-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Addi Turbos are wonderful, oh so smooth, and just glide along, but I guess I'm a little more in control with the bamboo. Sometimes the Turbos "get away from me" and I'll drop a stitch that I don't know how to fix. The yarn I'm using is nylon and acrylic (so it will be washable for baby)--which kind of needle do you recommend?

suzeeq
09-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Sounds like you're close enough on the gauge. Finding the center strand alone is nearly impossible, so just poke in a finger and hook some yarn and pull out a bunch. You're going to knit it up in just a little bit anyway.

suzeeq
09-07-2010, 05:40 PM
Also is there a difference in the stitch size (or stitches per inch) if you use bamboo or metal? What do most of you normally use?

It can vary by knitter, some get a tighter gauge on bamboo, some get a tighter one on metal. It seems I get just a bit larger gauge with the Clover bamboos, but I think they're just a touch larger than others and metal ones. So I use them when I want just a skosh larger stitch, but not enough to jump up another size.

pbs
09-08-2010, 07:07 AM
Great input--I'll give that a try. I've always thought my stitches on bamboo looked a little bigger, but now I'll give it the test. Thanks!!!

hyperactive
09-08-2010, 08:45 AM
All good to know. But don't get over-testing, keep knitting and be happy about knowing where to look for remedies when you need them :happydance: