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Michaele
10-20-2010, 09:52 AM
I feel so empty right now. I'm starting to think that sex before marriage is really a bad idea. I want to be close to someone and be able to trust them, but it seems as if when I give in to temptation I end up getting hurt.

I really liked this guy, and I believe that if I had not slept with him we would still be together right now. I still don't think that my mother was right when she said that all men are dogs, but if you make sex a priority before other relationship adhesives like trust and respect have truly been developed, then there's not much to hold the relationship together. Which is why ours fell apart.

But then again, I have to ask myself why he didn't feel the need to try to develop these things, even though we'd already known each other? I think it's because he might want to rekindle an old flame, and seeing as he's already had me, it's not that difficult for him to pick up things up with her.

What an awful person. His excuse will be that I'm am the jealous type, but he's too stubborn and prideful to admit that he really just wants his cake and to eat it too.

So. From now on, I really have to follow my new philosophy, because for a situation like this to occur is one too many. I never want it to happen to me again. When the next guy that seems interested in me comes around, I'll have to really stop and think about my new steps to a successful relationship: friendship first, never tease or create dangerous temptation, monogamy, and then sex.

But how long should this process take? I think that at least 1-2 months is an favorable time frame, but I know that the longer it takes, the more tension and frustration can build. What do you think? I'm really interested in hearing your perspectives, especially males.

cacunn
10-20-2010, 01:33 PM
Legal Disclaimer: I must say that I am a guy and therefore may have a different perspective on this.

I do not believe that having sex before marriage or not having sex before marriage is a good or bad idea. I also do not believe sex is or should be the glue that holds a relationship together. It can be a wonderful icing on a great relationship.

The time it takes to become partners takes what it takes. It may be a matter of day or months or years. If there are true feelings then the needs of the other partner will be very important. It may also depend on the chronological and emotional age of the two people. During the pre-teens and teenage years everyone is trying to truly understand and define what love and relationships truly mean. This learning experience may take a long time and may/will have many ups and downs and a number of different partners. Until you understand what a relationship means to you go slow.


If one partner does not feel that it is the right time for a physical relationship then a true friend/partner will understand and honor that feeling. Since sex cannot be un-had, then the needs of the partner wanting to wait should have priority. If a man truly cares then “cold showers” rather than pressuring a partner may be part of that caring. A true man will take these “showers” as part of growing together and should not be used to embarrass or pressure the lady.


Also, it is your body and your emotions; they are yours to control totally. If it feels uncomfortable then don’t do it do not be pushed or blackmailed into anything you don’t want to do. One thing I made clear to my wife early in our relationship, over 33 years ago, is that I consider the statement “If you truly loved me you would ______” (fill in the blank) to be emotional blackmail and I would not stand for emotional blackmail.
Not all men are dogs, many/most are, but there are a few princes out there. Your job is to search through the dogs to find the princes. This is not an easy job, learn to spot the dogs early, go slow with the princes because there are some dogs that will dress up as princes. But, when you find your prince you will find happiness.


Go slow, if it is right it is worth the wait, if it is not right it is not worth the pain.

cacunn
10-20-2010, 01:33 PM
A question I should have asked before posting, what is your age?

Michaele
10-20-2010, 03:23 PM
Thank you so much for replying! All of what you said is very true.

I am 20 years old. I have had my fun, and I would like to be in a serious relationship from this day forward. Currently, I'm in my junior year of college, and academic life makes it difficult to be selective. But I will not rush intimacy for the sake of being with someone, because a good man will understand that I'm waiting until the time is right. :)

Sunshine's Mom
10-20-2010, 04:14 PM
Cacunn, what you said was beautifully perfect. I don't think anyone could say it better. I wish we had an "agree" button to click like on Ravelry.

Michaele, you are 20 years old. I know you want a "forever" relationship right now, but you have so much life to live before you settle down. There is no rush. Have fun with your educational opportunities and extracurricular activities. The right guy will come along and fit in to your life if you live the way YOU want to live and do the things you want to do. Do not conform your likes and dislikes to someone else's just so you can have a relationship (that includes having sex if you're not ready). It never works and you'll always end up hurt.

I cannot stress this enough - You do not need a man in your life to make your life complete. You must make yourself happy first. Only then will you be able to know what you are looking for in a partner. Please don't rush things. Sex or otherwise. No matter what life throws at you remember that you always want to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and like what you see and be true and honest with yourself first and foremost. You sound like a great girl. Don't be so hard on yourself. Waiting is perfectly acceptable.

Keep re-reading cacunn's post, it's perfect.

Jan in CA
10-20-2010, 06:43 PM
Waiting is for intimacy is good, but at 20 you've got a lot of living and growing personally left to do. I am almost 58 and I can tell you I am NOT the same person I was at 21 when I got married. I've been married 36 yrs now and I'm happy, but in many ways I wish I had give myself more time to mature and get to know myself before I'd gotten married. That means getting to know lots of guys because what you want out of life really will change as you grow so don't be in a hurry. :)

cacunn
10-20-2010, 08:48 PM
Relax 20 is young, I was 28 not looking or interested in marriage when I met this lady. Then it was too late. Enjoy, meet guy to make friends, go out with guys as friends, make it clear that you are not in a hurry to enter a relationship. If relationship comes along find if not then that is fine also. The harder you try the harder it will be to see the princes for the dogs.

If he doesn't want to be your friend now, will he be a friend later? If he is willing to be a friend and later becomes your lover this will be a great relationship!

Now go get a couple of girl friends together and go get a cup of coffee. Have fun, sit there watching the guy discuss their good and bad points but don't worry about getting picked up or picking up a guy, just have fun with the girls.

cftwo
10-21-2010, 11:02 AM
Cancunn has expressed my views perfectly.

Something else to think about: There's a woman who works for my company who worries me a bit: when she's in a relationship we all know it because she's pleasant. When she's not, she's tempermental. I want her to be happy, but something seems a bit off when her happiness is so clearly tied to her being in a relationship. What kind of relationship does she have with herself?

melmac51
10-22-2010, 12:21 AM
Cacunn, you are a sensitive genious!

cacunn
10-22-2010, 09:11 AM
Cacunn, you are a sensitive genious!

Please don't say that to loud I'll get in trouble with the shop steward. I'm already in trouble for wearing skirts (kilts) and knitting.

cacunn
10-22-2010, 09:33 AM
Michaele - as I went back and reread your original post I kept thinking of trying to drive cats. The more you try to push a cat in one direction the more it will go in any other directions.

The more a woman talks about commitment the more scared a guy gets. It isn't that we are not interested in commitment we just don't want to be pushed into it. He will more comfortable when he comes up with the idea of commitment on his own.

Don't jump into a relationship committing all to the relationship, wait until he starts committing some. Be available but not clingy. Be available on your terms not his. As he gets more involved in the relationship and more commitment then the more he gets his way, but not to the point yours are ignored.

You are only 20 and yes it is time for a committed relationship, but, old maid hood will not set in for another 20 or 30 years DON'T rush it.

I would bet that if you stop worrying about a committed relationship from a guy it will occur within 6 months.

mspwrz
10-22-2010, 12:29 PM
I would love to see a pic posted of you in the full kilted dress. I think is is great!

cacunn
10-22-2010, 03:52 PM
I would love to see a pic posted of you in the full kilted dress. I think is is great!

Sorry the moderators object to discussing images being posted on this forum.

OffJumpsJack
10-22-2010, 04:49 PM
I would love to see a pic posted of you in the full kilted dress. I think is is great!

Sorry the moderators object to discussing images being posted on this forum.

Oh just knit a kilt and then model it to get a pic for the What'cha Knitting thread. :doh:

That is unless it would break your camera. :roflhard:

BTW, "The Guild" has sent notice you are being served for rule breaking. :roflhard:

mspwrz
10-22-2010, 06:25 PM
Sorry the moderators object to discussing images being posted on this forum.

I don't see how it would break the rules. You knit part of the outfit. I was interested in seeing the costume. Didn't mean to start anything.

Jan in CA
10-22-2010, 06:49 PM
Discussing images or disgusting images? :lol:

cacunn
10-22-2010, 10:55 PM
This image will be removed on 11/1/10http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/cacunn/P4150151.jpg

Jan in CA
10-23-2010, 12:28 AM
Hey! Nice to see you! It's not disgusting at all and there is not reason to remove it unless you want to for other reasons. :hug:

Michaele
10-23-2010, 09:33 AM
We talked a lot over the past few days, and I definitely believe that he is the kind of guy that expects commitment from his women, only not so much from himself. I will not give more than I receive in the hopes that I might ensare him. I will wait, and do my best to be patient. However, if this relationship doesn't appear to be going anywhere, I'll end it, regardless of whether or not a new opportunity has presented itself. Which it has. :P But I'm a one at a time kind of girl. Tee hee.

Michaele
10-23-2010, 09:35 AM
And nice photo cacunn!!! You look fabulous!

bambi
10-24-2010, 09:45 PM
Everyone has made wonderful replies to you, Michaela! Esp Chris.

Chris, I LOVE the picture!

newamy
10-26-2010, 09:00 PM
I am confused by this most recent post, I thought he was already gone and now you are talking to him? It is hard to let go. But Cancun shows great wisdom and values and you need to find someone like him. Don't waffle over someone who has already disappointed you.

I have a friend who always has to have a guy around, steady guy all through college who was more invested in her than she in him unfortunately. Dropped him for another guy after college who seemed very romantic but actually was a manipulative control freak. One would think she would want a break, but in spite of it all she was dating with in 6 month of him leaving her. She was so lonely. Dated a few guys, then met a nice one and married him. He is nicer than her first husband, but it is concerning that she can't be happy on her own by herself. So my advice is make sure when you are alone you are happy and are great company for yourself.

SBG
11-23-2010, 08:20 AM
On the flip side, I got married at 20. What a huge mistake. I had a lot of fun in my late teens and I guess I felt ready, but even then I knew it was a mistake. We got divorced when I was 22/23. I think sometimes we spend too much time stressing out about finding The One. I think it may be better to enjoy life, and just see what happens.

wellslipmystitches
11-23-2010, 05:31 PM
Sir, You cut a fine figure in your kilt. What is the house name of your tartan? I don't know much about it but am always interested in the history of such things.

More important, your words to Michaele. Sensitive, caring and right on target to a young person trying to find her bliss.


I can't help but recall a very old metaphor for happiness which all try to find. Sorry, I can't give attribution, but it goes something like this:

A puppy sees his tail wagging when he's happy, so he chases it in unending circles to capture that happiness. He can't achieve it, without an occasional, painful bite and is continually disappointed.

The grown and wiser dog knows that if you just go forward, explore your talents and live your life, instead of tearing around in circlesó like the dog's tail, happiness will follow right along behind you,

Thanks for your words from a male's perspective.
Jean

cacunn
11-23-2010, 11:05 PM
Sir, You cut a fine figure in your kilt. What is the house name of your tartan? I don't know much about it but am always interested in the history of such things.


The tartan is Scottish National, from USAKilts (http://www.usakilts.com/store/otr_kiltpage.php). It is a polyester rayon material so it can be machine washed.

Crycket
11-24-2010, 08:19 AM
I got married at 28. When I found my hubby, I was 24, and out of the relationship that I would have been divorced from by now if I had stayed in. We waited 5 years before we got married...and we slept together the on the second date.

Everybody is different, when I met my now hubby, I wasn't interested in anyone...I had just gotten out of a relationship from hell, and I didn't realize it was hell until I was out of it. I agree with everyone here that says that we are not the same person at 20 as we are later on!

I also feel that, we are going to do what we are going to do. No regrets. The problem is, if we had a time machine to go back and do it all again, we would choose to do the same thing every time, because that is the mind set we were in at the time we made those choices. Hind sight is 20/20. And I do truely believe that the best time to find someone is when we are truely not looking. *smiles*

lovehanami
11-29-2010, 04:45 AM
Im only 4 years younger than you (16 yr old high school junior), and your post reminded me of a few questions I was trying to sort out a few years ago.

I went through a very bad time a few years ago. I wanted to feel loved, and since I couldnt find that from my family (a never-present father and a mother who was paranoid-depressed at the time), I turned to friends. I was always very awkward, and making quality friends was always difficult. I met some peers who seemed to like me, they actually talked to me and didnt make fun of me like all the other "friends" I had made. However, these new friends were drug addicts and dealers, but I didnt care. Hell, they liked me. So I began to spend virtually every weekend with them, sneaking out of my house so as not to disturb my mom. I got involved with pills and some IV drugs, and 2 months later they introduced me to Chris at a party. He was 5 years older, dealed heroin and pills(although unknown to me at first), and we both seemed to "fall" for each other. I should have known that he was willing and ready to take advantage of me, after all, I was in 8th grade and he was a college freshman at the time. But I was blind, and we did everything together, from parties to disneyland to late night acid trips. We became a couple, and soon he asked me the "sex" question. I didnt really want to have sex since I was so young and we werent married, but he told me it was how people kept relationships strong. I still felt very uncomfortable, and refused, but his advances kept getting more aggressive and got to the point where he hit me and forced himself on me.

My point is, if you have to question yourself on whether or not you want to wait to have sex, then its probably better to wait until you are 100% absolutely sure you are ready. All other factors, like pressure from friends or your partner or even the media (hey, theyre not playing tictactoe in the closet on Greys Anatomy), do not matter, because the only one that does is you and how you feel. Sex is not what holds two people together(at least happily), and the problem might only get worse until it is too late to mend it.

cacunn
11-29-2010, 04:15 PM
My point is, if you have to question yourself on whether or not you want to wait to have sex, then its probably better to wait until you are 100% absolutely sure you are ready.


I fully agree and even go further " if you have to question yourself on whether or not you want to wait to" do anything you should wait. When it is right for you to do something you will know it. If you like someone else and it is not right for them to do something, then you should honor them and not force, push or prod them in any way.

Even at almost 62, sex is a nice way to spend time with someone else, but with the intimacy of love included nice becomes great. But also at 62 I realize that sex is not love. You can not "make love" you are either in love or you are not. When you are having sex you are having sex, making love on the other hand may never have a physical component, a look across a room, a note left on the night stand, a dozen roses because its Tuesday. If combined with sex, making love, is the time before and after the physical act. The time caring for the others needs, holding, touching, talking.

I believe that being in love is the binding of two peoples spirits and the bind of the flesh is not necessary for love to exist.

lovehanami I am very sorry that your first experience was what it was. I hope in a couple of years that you meet someone and experience the joy of intimacy with someone that cares for you as a person, wants to be with you as a person, to share with you as a person, and that the physical aspects of this sharing is just icing on the cake.

You say you are 16, yes you are a woman in many ways, but I hope you wait for a few more years to again engage in sex. I hope that you use this time to learn how to identify those men that are scums of the earth from those few that are caring and kind. Teen age is a time of learning, to fall "in love", often many times over, as you learn what being 'in love' really means. Do not rush the process, do not let anyone else push you along the process. If they push then let it be a push out of the relationship, there is a great guy waiting for you right around the corner.

Let me give you two guide lines, one, beware of any guy named Chris. The name books say Christopher means "Christ bearer", based on 62 years as a Chris I know that it really means trouble. Some Chris' can be fun trouble but we are all trouble.

Two, you are perfect, you don't need someone else to fulfill yourself, if someone doesn't want to be your friend it is their lo,se they have just missed out on a wonderful friendship and often the best friends and lovers will show up when you are not looking for them. When you are happy with yourself, fulfilled by yourself you will radiate a glow, presence or something that will draw that perfect person for you into your life.

Hugs and thank you for sharing.

lovehanami
11-30-2010, 12:11 AM
Thank you cacunn for your kind words!

Its been years, and I have learned that these teenage years are a time to grow and learn and have fun, so I can learn how to have fun and enjoy life throughout the rest of my years. I know now how to spot good friends and bad influences, and now I have surrounded myself with caring friends that love me and a boyfriend who respects and cares for me. I do have some after-effects from those years, and it can make it difficult for me to be comfortable around older guys, but therapy helps somewhat. Also, I am proud to say I have been sober and celibate for a year and a half now, and I even got a "sober tattoo"! Props to my uncle, the tattoo artist of the family...

I have been asked if I ever regretted what I have done or what has happened, but honestly, I wouldnt take anything back. With all that, I have grown wiser, and I have helped people I know from falling down the same path. I no longer believe that the only way to find love is through sex or even with a romantic partner; love can be found from family, from friends, pets(my kitty!), and from self. Oh, and knitting=love too :heart: