PDA

View Full Version : My Daughter Has Totally Broken My Heart This Time


auburnchick
06-28-2007, 12:25 AM
Well, tonight was pretty bad.

While working on my computer tonight, I noticed something odd, asked my daughter a question about it, got weird vibes, and began investigating.

I discovered that my daughter had created a Facebook account. What's the big deal, you might ask. Well, we've strictly forbidden her to create any such site. She nearly lost her soccer privileges last year for the same reason (disobeying us after we told her not to create another one).

The whole time I'm questioning her, she is lying about things. I finally get into her account and through investigating that learn that she also had created a myspace account. She told me she couldn't remember the email address she used, so I couldn't log into the account. While I was on my mission to figure out a way to contact myspace, she came in and admitted that she lied to me. She gave me the email address she used so I could log in.

She's had both of these accounts since last fall. :cry:

She's been lying to us the entire time.

To make things worse, she figured out how to delete the history on my computer, so I couldn't tell where she'd been. I had noticed that my KH settings were always disappearing, but I thought my Firefox settings were wonky. Just weird stuff like that. She was covering her tracks...

My heart is totally shredded. I feel so violated. I'm stunned at the total lack of disrespect that she and her friends (the ones who know she's not allowed to do this) have for dh and me. There is just no trust there any more.

I don't know how we are going to handle this. I'm truly at my wit's end this time. God has a big job with this one.

The one thing she did admit to is that she thinks she needs counseling. She said she is very angry with us and has been for some time. I agree. I think I'm going to stay home from work tomorrow and look into this.

Please pray for us. I'm literally devastated. Just torn up...

Thanks for listening.

:muah:

jeanius80
06-28-2007, 12:31 AM
oh nathalie! i am so sorry for you:muah: i understand how you would feel. it is a good move in the right direction that your daughter did admit the whole truth, and that she told you about being angry. i think counseling is what you guys need. :pray: i hope you all get the help, healing, and understanding you will need to get through this very tough time. God bless you and your family :heart:

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 12:33 AM
At this point, I wonder what the truth really is. Everything seems like a lie now...

Sorry, but I'm really, really, really down. This is the worst I think I have ever felt about nearly anything. The only thing that hurt worse was the death of my dad.

:cry:

Ellen Edwards
06-28-2007, 01:12 AM
I am so sorry. We love our children so much, we want to trust them badly!! SO much, sometimes, that we think they CAN totally be trustworthy--and I imagine there are very few that ALWAYS tell the truth ALL THE TIME.:hug: However, I can see that your daughter does have real issues--whether it's about anger towards her parents, or a dislike for herself--it doesn't matter. She has done this thing, and now I think a Christian counselor might be a good idea. Not someone like a pastor at your church, but a real counselor with whom you have no other contact.

I think the thing is that maybe most of the friends she comes in contact with at school are so "worldly" (I hope you know what I mean) she thinks they're the "cool people". And she thinks her parents are NOT!! She's not mature enough to appreciate your need to be able to trust her....but I can assure you -- whether she's acting like it or not---she doesn't want to feel she could ever lose your love. And I know she won't!

This will work out, too. I am just so sorry it's going to be such a hard lesson for her AND such a bad time for you and dh!!:heart:

KnittingNat
06-28-2007, 01:32 AM
:hug::hug::hug:
What is the reason you've forbidden her to have these accounts from the first place?

snowbear
06-28-2007, 02:12 AM
There is nothing that can be said or done that can eaase the pain right now.
:hug:
I do suggest counseling. Fast.

But, not just for her.. I think family counseling would help. You, your dh, and dd. I think a counselor would help all of you, and find a way to get things worked out.

Know my heart breaks for you, and I send you love, and Big bear hugs... I only wish I could be there for you in person.

Take care..

Braden
06-28-2007, 03:19 AM
There aren't any words to say how sorry I am for you. I can only imagine what would happen to me if I did something like that. I hope you get everything worked out, but, until then, I'll be praying for you and your husband!

Isn't there a way that you could block myspace and facebook? I think that'd be a good idea to start with. And, maybe if you start to trust her, than she'll finally get where she doesn't want to break it and actually deserve your trust? That's my situation, my parents trust me, so I give them a reason to. Maybe that could happen with you and your daughter someday, hopefully soon.

I'll be praying for all 3 of you!

Ronda
06-28-2007, 07:09 AM
:hug: :pray:

Doodknitwit
06-28-2007, 07:28 AM
oh how your heart must be hurting, seems nothing wounds us like the betrayal of our child. praying she sees the Light.... :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

iza
06-28-2007, 08:10 AM
:hug:Nathalie, good luck. I know you're hurt, but I don't think your daughter meant to hurt you. Kids are weird that way - they don't always have the same level of empathy that we adults do. She suspected you would be angry if you discovered it, and that was probably her goal, but I'm sure she didn't know you would be hurt. The fact that she came back and admitted that she lied is an indication to me that she respects you.

Counselling is a good idea. Be prepared however, it can be difficult! Sometimes, the core of a problem isn't necessarily where we think it is. A good counsellor will help you find it, but the solutions are not always easy. :muah:

blueeyes28
06-28-2007, 08:17 AM
Was it sneaky and deceitful yes but it could also be a good time for some mother daughter bonding to take place.Maybe telling her you understand her desire for a little privacy and independance but that myspace can be very unsafe and that finding out that she was holding these accounts without your knowledge and consent scared you to death I am sure for reasons obvious to mothers but maybe not so obvious to daughters .What if together you set up a myspace page or something were you set the privacy settings and can monitor what is going on anytime you feel like it I am sure her intentions were not to break your heart but to feel like she had a little space of her own where she could express herself.You have every right to be upset but now is also a good time to try and bridge the gap how you handle this could have a huge impact on the next couple of years of her life if she is not givin some slack she may just become better at hiding things. Good luck you seem like a great mom:muah:

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 08:38 AM
Thanks for the kind words.

Maybe further explanation would be helpful.

First of all, some question why we don't want her to have these public pages. My dh is in law enforcement. I used to work at one of our local law enforcement agencies. These sites are predator magnets. Kids put identifying information about themselves and others, and kids have been known to have been killed because of the information provided on them.

About two years ago, we found out her best had created a page for her. We made her get rid of it and explained why. When you grow up with someone in law enforcement, you understand. You live with what that person sees. My dh has investigated many horrible crimes. My daughter knows this. She knows what's out there, and she knows we're extremely conservative and protective.

Anyhow, she was instructed NOT to do another page of any sort. A few months later, we found out she had created another page. So, we went through all of this crying, yada yada yada. We nearly took soccer completely away. She really freaked out. We thought she finally understood the severity of it.

She had us hoodwinked. She's since created these last two sites, and only a few months after she got in massive trouble over the last one.

I know that this sounds like it's about control, but it's really not. It's a safety issue. And now it's turned into an obedience and trust issue. I am still responsible for her. If she doesn't obey my rules, how can I trust her.

Conti, you suggested extending trust. Believe me...we did after the last go-round. She still chose to recreate those pages.

Plus, she was grounded from computer use, but she used mine anyway when I went to work. I put a password on my Windows user accounts last night. She's not supposed to go on the internet when we're not home for safety reasons. Another safety rule broken. How do I know she's not sneaking out of the house at night? How do I know that when I drop her off at church she's not leaving and going somewhere else?

I told her last night (like I've told her before) that God created parents to care for children and model the relationship they are to have with him...one of obedience (most importance), love, and respect. If she's not willing to obey and respect me, how can she ever expect to obey and love God?

I'm going to do some calling this morning to try to find a Christian counselor.

Once again, thanks for listening. I feel bad dumping on you guys again.

marykz
06-28-2007, 08:44 AM
hugs for you- I hope you find a counselor ASAP. I understand your position on facebook/myspace completely. my friend with a teen boy is also nt allowed, but snuck one up anyways. She ended up using boot passwords on her home computers (won't even turn on without a password) and locking up her laptop every day. She said she was going to try to contact myspace to see about them blocking her IP address- but I don't know if that is actually possible.

I'll keep praying for you and your family.....

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 08:48 AM
Something I've learned, though, is that doing all of that (passwords, etc.) won't solve the problem. It boils down to them respecting us enough to trust us for our reasons for protecting them and obeying us.

We've got to get down to the root of the problem. Otherwise, they'll just find a way around the rules and do what they want anyway.

Thanks for your understanding words. It really means a lot to me. :muah:

Kaydee
06-28-2007, 08:54 AM
I'm sorry that this happened Nathalie. I'm sure she didn't do this to hurt you; she was probably just thinking about herself and didn't think how it would affect you and your family which unfortunately it has. At least you were able to catch this before God forbid anything could have happened through the site. I totally understand what you're talking about with these sites. You always here horrible things about predators who have met young girls online and do these horrible things to them. I commend you for working to protect your daughter against this, there are a lot of parents who don't monitor at all their kid's internet activities.

It seems like she's making a step in the right direction admitting she may need counseling, I'm sure that's tough for her to come out and say. Maybe she could do individual counseling for a while to really work out what she thinks makes her mad and then you and your dh could join later on when she's made some progress. It may help her to be truly honest with herself.

I hope things work out, I'll be thinking of you and your family.:hug:

KnittingNat
06-28-2007, 08:57 AM
Auburnchick - I know how hurt you are about the trust issue and i understand completely the safety reasons for not allowing your dd to have these accounts. But an idea maybe that will seem ridiculous to you... It happens that in Israel there are many religious families living in certain lifestyle and the kids don't think it's for them and they leave the community because the parents can't accept a different lifestyle in their homes. I know that you're much more modern than what i speak about (you have TV and computers and internet), but i also see you're very religious. I'm just suggesting that maybe your daughter is having a faith crisis of some kind. Maybe she doesn't want to accept conservative lifestyle, maybe she doesn't believe in God, maybe it's not for her, so she's acting rebelliously to check your faith and your red lines. I don't mean in any way to be judgmental of your lifestyle, i think everyone are entitled to live their lives the way they want, unless it hurts someone else... She is in that age when young people start to think of those things, maybe seeing all the crimes your dh investigated, she lost the faith...
Big hugs and stay strong...:hug:

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 09:34 AM
You know, I don't think she's rebelling against Christianity, per se.

But I do think she's having a crisis. She attends youth group twice a week. I don't make her go. She goes because she wants to. I'm sure it's mainly a social thing, but that's how it is with the kids. While she's there, she's hearing a good message. My prayer is that her heart will hear this message, and she'll respond. I don't think that she'll make the right choices until her heart is right with God.

Right now the problem is that she's self-centered (aren't most teens?!). She's not putting anyone first beside herself. Living a Christian life means you put God first. This is something that most Christians struggle with because we are human. But, ideally, this is how we're supposed to operate. After God, we're to put others first, and then ourselves last.

Dd is concerned with dd. Period. She knew we would be upset if we found out about the pages, which is why she went through the trouble to cover up her tracks (deleting my internet history every time...I knew I had checked that box to save my KH password!).

She needs to see herself as God sees her, repent, and acknowledge that Jesus paid the price for her sins. Only after she does this can she depend on the strength of the Holy Spirit to help her make the right decisions.

Now, I know that there are many people who aren't Christians who make good decisions. In my daughter's case, though, I just don't think she can do it without God. She knows what she needs to do, she just won't (or can't) do it.

I'm going to start calling around in a bit...looking for a counselor...

ironmaiden
06-28-2007, 09:40 AM
I definitely understand your safety concerns (my DH is in law enforcement as well) and your pain at finding out you were lied to... but at the same time, I doubt she understands either fully. There were a lot of things my parents didn't want me to do when I was young that I didn't understand - and being forbidden from using MySpace probably seems really unreasonable to a kid.

I don't know if this would work for your family, but I know a lot of parents have their teens set these things as private so that most people can't actually see the contents of the profile.

blueeyes28
06-28-2007, 09:42 AM
I think no internet when you aren't home is one of the best rules you can have in place and I know what you mean about the predators that lurk in places like myspace Ok I just had a light bulb moment what if you and your daughter together set up a phony myspace profile for a 15 year old girl and see if you can't show her first hand the kind of slime that goes around looking for young girls I might even try this myself maybe do one with all the privacy and safety features in place and one without and see for myself if they work at all to protect our kids.Of course you would have to keep the password to yourself so she can't check it herself.

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 09:59 AM
We have watched the Dateline "To Catch a Predator" episodes together. On the show, they read back some of the chatter that has gone on between the decoy and the predator. It's pretty graphic stuff. She "knows" what's out there. She's a smart girl in some ways.

I think she is willfully choosing not to listen. She's always been headstrong and independent. She just wants to do what most kids her age are doing. But does this mean it's right?

Most kids get to see nearly any movie they want without thought to the sexual and language content. My kids are not allowed to. We explain why as well. Living a Christian (i.e. conservative) life means you do stand apart from others. But it's for the right reasons.

I know that teens are probably not going to understand this. But, just as toddlers don't understand why we say "no" when they reach up to touch the stove, the learn pretty fast when they get burned, and then they understand. I know I can't protect her from everything, and she needs to get burned to teach her some things, but some things are just not up for debate. You grab your kids before they run out in front of a car. They MUST obey you in this case, or you may not get a second chance. That's how I feel with this issue.

But again, the underlying issue is obedience. We have to submit our will to those in authority over us. She is refusing to do this.

And I'm not sure that "punishing" her is going to do any good. It certainly hasn't helped this summer...

Kaydee
06-28-2007, 10:12 AM
We have watched the Dateline "To Catch a Predator" episodes together. On the show, they read back some of the chatter that has gone on between the decoy and the predator. It's pretty graphic stuff. She "knows" what's out there. She's a smart girl in some ways.


I think the problem with many teens is that while they know the dangers are out there they seem to think they are invincible. They think "well sure that happened to that girl, but I'm smart so there's no way it'll happen to me". I know I thought like that when I was a teen and I have to say thankfully I never really got burned by a situation. Maybe something bad won't happen but unfortunately we can't predict that so they need to be careful since you really don't know what could happen.

robynbird
06-28-2007, 10:14 AM
UGH! I'm so sorry! I'll be praying for you.

Silver
06-28-2007, 10:36 AM
I am so sorry Nathalie! :hug:

I wish I had some brilliant words of wisdom for you, but I'm afraid I'm just a year or so away from the MySpace age myself.

The only thing I can say is that we keep the computers in the living room so we can see what either kid is doing online at any time. Mostly they're all about Neopets (the girl) and World of Warcraft (the boy). But I'm worried about what's to come in the future... hence my siggy quote. :-?

Chel
06-28-2007, 11:08 AM
Being a teenager is difficult in that you in no way understand that things will happen to YOU. The infallibility of youth is one of the greatest gifts of being a teenager-but its also quite dangerous. No matter how much you understand something is dangerous, it doesn't mean that they get it. Also you WANT them to tell you the truth, but thats only 1% of the battle. The other 99% is getting THEM to WANT to be honest.

I think it has to do with a level of experience regarding interaction in a world thats much bigger than we are. For example... infants up to 10 months are fine with being left alone in a room. Somewhere between 10-14 months the start to get clingy and cry when you leave and will look for you if you disappear. They realize that when you disappear you still exist somewhere outside their range of vision.

We as adults are on the opposite end of that scale because of our level of experience dealing with the wide world.

Teens are limited in their view because their world is mostly made up by their realm of experience. We are also taught from a young age that T.V. isn't real. If she has been loved, cared for in her life then bad people simply aren't real to her. They are more like an abstract concept.

Its not just kids-we adults tend to be this way too. Good things, like Amber Alerts and the CMEC should have ALWAYS been in existance. But they wern't until someone became outraged at their child being hurt or killed. Do you ever hear a parent say, "Well, yeah I was pretty sure one day my kid would be kidnapped while she was walking home from school." The fact that you have a broader understanding of the dangers due to DH's job is great... but you also have age and experience behind that understanding.

Also, when it comes to MySpace and Facebook and other sites, its hard to tell a kid that its dangerous when the other 300 kids they know are doing it and still safe and fine.

My friend battled this with her 14 year old son, who is now 15 1/2. The compromise was that he uses My Space ONLY. He gave his password and screen name to his mom so she can check his friends list. Out of respect for his privacy she reads his comments but NOT his inbox or outbox. The only friends he is allowed to have on there are kids she has actually met in person. She checks to make sure he isn't giving away personal info in his profile and his mailbox is set up so he can ONLY receive messages from people on his friends list.

I understand you have to stand behind your rules, and that your child has betrayed your trust. Thats is hurtful and that trust will have to be earned back. I also am not sure of her age.

Growing up is hard on kids as well as parents. We work hard to instill morals and values in our kids. Then the day comes when we have to trust that we did a good job and let them test things out for themselves.

It sounds like you have a good kid. It sounds like you are a good parent. This sounds like a bump in the road, and in the end my advice would be to keep the lines of communication open. Yes she lied and there are consequences for that but there are reasons she lied and covered her tracks and that is what you need to find out.

ekgheiy
06-28-2007, 11:09 AM
Something I've learned, though, is that doing all of that (passwords, etc.) won't solve the problem. ...

Thanks for the explanation; I was completely lost. :oops:

I agree that passwords won't help. After all, most libraries offer free internet access. Would it be too "outside the box" to let her have her accounts and then just periodically make your presence know there? Or maybe even create your own account and add each other to your friends lists? Maybe it will help improve communication? Maybe allowing her to have the account will rid the novelty and she won't be interested in it anymore? Maybe exposing her to more guided freedoms will help hone her "trouble meter" and thus spot and avoid trouble more effectively? Or maybe not. But maybe it's worth a try? :shrug:

I don't have any kids. But growing up, my parents gave us a bunch of freedoms that other kids didn't have (ie: we were allowed to drink alcohol, watch 'R' movies, stay up late, drive etc ...) As a result, it made us WAY less likely to do stupid things in order to experience those freedoms - as some of the other kids did and thus were punished. I realize that times are certainly different now, but thinking "out of box" worked for my parents because I very humbly think I turned out a pretty decent person. I never had any trouble in school and my parents never had any problems with the decisions that I made as a kid.

I hope you find what works best for you and your family!!
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_67.gif

knitwit88
06-28-2007, 11:10 AM
As hard as it is, I think taking away all soccer would probably be the best thing. From what I've read in your threads, soccer is the only thing she's consistently cared about. My advice would be to lock the computer up so she cant use it at all, unless you specifically log in for her, make her come directly home after school each day, no contact with friends outside of school, no TV, take all of her soccer stuff and lock it up, let her friends moms know exactly whats going on, so if she is "studying" over at a friends house, you know they wont be on myspace. Best wishes and lots of :hug:s,

Cassidy

Inis
06-28-2007, 12:04 PM
Wish I could give you concrete advice.

All I can say is try to keep it all in perspective. Your daughter isn't on drugs or involved in gangs (at least I HOPE NOT!). As bad as you feel it is, it COULD be worse.

I think giving in on MySpace or Facebook at this point would be a bad idea. It would insinuate that DD tactics work and will cause her to continue to disobey.

Counseling is a GREAT idea - together, and solo with separate counselors. Good luck!

figaro
06-28-2007, 12:04 PM
I am so sorry you are going through this! I really hope that that all of you are able to figure out why she is being so deceptive and help her get past it. And it sounds like she is like all the other teenagers who think it won't happen to them. I truly hope that you are all able to rebuild the trust and respect along with finding out why she is so angry...:grphug::pray:

GinnyG
06-28-2007, 12:05 PM
My daughter started to lie to me at age 12 and I don't think I heard a word of truth from her again til she was over 20. It was devastating, heartbreaking and changed my life forever. She is now 23 and our relationship is much better but I will never get those lost years back and honestly don't think I'll ever get over the loss of the relationship we "could" have had.

For many years I blamed myself and still play the "what if game" but I did everything I knew to do and could not change the course she set for herself.

My heart just breaks for you because I know what pain you are in.

The best advice I can give you is get a THERAPIST FOR YOU. You need someone to talk to to help you thorugh this very difficult time.

cando
06-28-2007, 12:10 PM
I'm so sorry you're having to go through this!

Is it possible she knows your views but doesn't agree with them and therefore disobeys? At her age, I disagreed with several of my parents' rules and probably broke every one of them at some point. And covered my tracks well each time.
I'm sure my parents thought it was out of disrespect but the truth wasn't so simple. In many ways I thought of myself as an adult and resented being treated like a child - mainly being told what to do and what not to do. My mom, especially, used to like laying down the rules and then insist we obey regardless of whether we agreed. My dad's approach worked better - he rarely told us what to do or not do. Instead, he would get our thinking to change with his opinions, stories, funny incidents etc. We then had a better chance of making the right decision by ourselves.

My aunt and uncle are another example struggling to deal with their son. He's about 17 now and has been terribly angry with his parents for several years. His parents are very protective (overprotective IMO). He has been going for counseling for over an year now, but truthfully his attitude hasn't changed any. He claims he hates his mom because of her ultra-conservative parenting methods and the only way for him to get over it is to leave home. They won't let him do that because they feel he'll only do himself more harm without supervision *sigh*

Hang in there. I hope you find a good counselor who can find the root of the problem and help you resolve it. :hug:

jodstr2
06-28-2007, 12:40 PM
:hug: Nathalie :hug:
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. a positive spot - you're lucky that she comes to you and admits her lies. getting mine to admit he lied is nearly impossible.
I feel your pain. we have trust issues with our 13 yr old. he's testing us - not necessarily on purpose - just like I did at that age. he thinks he knows everything, thinks he can do stuff without our knowledge - just like I did at that age. he's asserting himself, because he's becoming aware of the bigger picture outside his minute-to-minute life - just like what I went through at that age. I was convinced my parents were the meanest, most unreasonable people alive. the bottom line is, all I can do is tell him I completely understand what he's going through, but he still needs to show respect, demonstrate integrity and responsibility, and above all else, he still needs to listen to what we try to do to guide him toward a hopefully decent and fulfilling adulthood/career/relationship, and put our lessons in to practice *now*.
he has a myspace account, which his mom and I both know the password for. we told him it's ok to have the account, but it must be 1) private and 2) must not have ANY personal information in it. no blogging, no location, no school name, etc. she and I check it often, but who knows, he might have a different account that we don't know about.

hang in there sweetie, things will get better. :heart:

SusanAnn
06-28-2007, 12:54 PM
I have total sympathy for you....our middle ds aged 13 has started to lie a lot ( including about playing online games with strangers...I banned him from it and then found out he was still playing...now he is only allowed on the computer when there is an adult in the room )

It seems to me that they aren't lying to deliberately hurt us, it's just that they are so wrapped up in themselves that they are only thinking about what they want to do.

We're going to get some help with our sons behaviour, but at the same time I feel that I have to get this in perspective, he is a good student, isn't doing drugs or alcohol, he just doesn't get the pain that a breach of trust has on a family.

jodstr2
06-28-2007, 01:00 PM
It seems to me that they aren't lying to deliberately hurt us, it's just that they are so wrapped up in themselves that they are only thinking about what they want to do.

my thoughts exactly.

Jillle
06-28-2007, 01:10 PM
I am hoping you don't take away her soccer! Sports are such a positive force in so many ways. The fact that she cares so much for the sport is a good thing. The other day my friend said her parents took away dance lessons as a way of punishing her. It was the only she cared about, she is 50 now, and she thinks it was a big mistake on her parents' part. It was the only positive thing in her life.

I had a situation with my daughter. She started high school last year and got involved with some bad kids and the lying was just the tip of the iceberg. It was horrible. Of course, I wanted to believe everything she told me, even though in my heart I had doubts.

Well, I pulled her out the school, put her in counseling, put her on home study, she got a job, got into playing her guitar and playing tennis. She has completely changed for the good and is ready to go back to (a new) high school in the fall.

The most important thing was that "she" was the one who asked for help. She went to the school psychologist and said she was out of control and needed help. Now if I ever doubt her word, she is outraged. She really has changed, but its so hard to earn the trust again. But, is has happened...little by little.

I know each situation is completely different, but I thought I would share my story. Sometimes you feel like you are the only one going through these things.

Orangeus
06-28-2007, 01:24 PM
I was going to mention the fact that your daughter might not be feeling as religious as you are, but KnittingNat did it first. I'm sure you're right, and this isn't part of the problem, but have you asked her directly? I can easily imagine that if I were an angry teenager, and I was being told not to do something because it's against God, I'd think that was a terrible cope out and continue to do it anyways.


I'm still a young one myself (but at the oh-so-much-more mature age of 18, hahah), and I agree with you completely that Myspace is really quite hazardous. I can't believe the stuff my friends with pages (in college!) have on theirs. Hometown, full name, borderline-slutty pictures, practically their school schedule. (not to mention the worst layouts and colour themes possible, and they have no understanding of what bandwidth stealing is, but that's... got nothing to do with safety...)

I would think the only way your going to get around this insessent need your daughter has to make a Myspace account is to supervise it. Explain to her that she can have an account, but it will be viewed by yourself, your husband, random family members, people in the church (from just fellow...church goers? to like the youth pastor, to the big boss pastor), her soccer coach guy, teachers, the dean, or whoeever is in charge of her school, and so on. Now you could be lying about half of those, but so long as she knows that adults, people she has to be accountable to, are looking at what she does online (and make sure to check as often as you're letting her believe it's checked. They have page-view-counters, so she will know). And your clever enough to be able to figure out if she makes a secondary account for the things she doesn't want all you adults seeing.

As for Facebook, it's just as pointless as Myspace, but it's much more secure. Apparently no one can see anything beyond your name and avatar unless you hand select them to be on your friends list. And the only way people can be in a highschool's 'group' (meaning everyone in that group can see the profile of everyone else... I think, so it's not like someone that doesn't actually go to her school will be in her school's group), is if someone already in the group invites them. It's fairly secure in my opinion, but it's a lot more pictorial based than myspace even, though.


I hope you all can make it through this with as few tears as possible, and I think a counselor would really help a lot (but ask her straight out if she would prefer a Christian one, or a non-Christian one, and pick who she wants, in this case)

jeanius80
06-28-2007, 01:52 PM
nathalie, i think orangeus has a lot of great points. as hard as it is to realize, your dd may not have a desire to be close to God like you want for her, and there is nothing you can do to make her have that desire. i was knew a guy in HS who went through the same thing as your dd. he went to church and went along with parents, but when they weren't around, he was exactly what they didn't desire him to be. she really has to want to have a relationship with God, and sadly she may never.
as for soccar, i understand she is talented, but she has broken almost every rule you have set for her, so until she can get a job and pay for all the expenses related (uniforms, tournaments, member fees) i would take it away. i was a very good kid, i was in swim and water polo in HS. as soon as i could get a job, my dad made it clear that if sports (or any EXTRA CURRICLAR activities) were to continue, i needed to pay for them. so i got a job i hated, but i learned a lot of responsibility. perhaps this is what your dd needs to do. if its so important to her, then she will be responsible and get a job, pay for the things she needs to. summertime is a lot of open scheduling to fill in with a paying job. HTH

SabrinaJL
06-28-2007, 02:37 PM
The compromise was that he uses My Space ONLY. He gave his password and screen name to his mom so she can check his friends list. Out of respect for his privacy she reads his comments but NOT his inbox or outbox. The only friends he is allowed to have on there are kids she has actually met in person. She checks to make sure he isn't giving away personal info in his profile and his mailbox is set up so he can ONLY receive messages from people on his friends list.

I do this very thing with my daughter. I also have my own account and her profile is set to private so only her friends can see it. I've discovered that with teens, the more you try to control what they do or see, the more they rebel against it. We know we're doing it to keep them safe, but they don't see it that way. All they think is that we don't trust them. And to an extent, they're right.

But you have to start trusting them and letting them learn to take care of themselves eventually. You can't keep her safe forever, so you should teach her to deal with the things that you worry about. Which is why I've let my daughter have a myspace account but only under my rules. Also, with movies, if she wants to see it, but I'm not sure about it, I'll watch it first. Letting your kids run wild isn't good, but overprotecting them isn't either.

PaperGirl
06-28-2007, 03:43 PM
Im so sorry that this happened to you.

I really dont have alot of wisdom to share with you...when I was a teen, we didnt have MySpace and stuff, and my 11 year old only plays on Neopets...

I hope you find something helpful when you go to counseling, and that you and your daughter make it through this. :hug:

PCwombat
06-28-2007, 04:48 PM
First, I can't even imagine what you are going through, and I understand that there are other factors not brought up.

As another 18 y/o, I agree with a lot of the points made by Orangeus. Myspace is a huge part of the social life for most teenagers. While there are dangers involved, it sounds as if you have done a wonderful job of educating your daughter of them so that she knows how to avoid them. Perhaps not right away (she did directly disobey you) but eventually, you could allow her to have her own account if you know the passwords and username for it so that you can check on it.

Faith is an amazing thing to have, but many teenagers are in a stage of life where they are confused or unsure as to their own beliefs. Your daughter most likely does belief in Christianity, but she is at a point in her life where she is figuring out who she is. Some of her thoughts and ideas probably don't match up exactly with yours. And because high school is such a defining time, she wants to explore her ideas. Your stricter lifestyle may be too much for her at the moment, so she might feel the need to rebel against it as a way to be herself.

I truly hope you find success with whatever path you choose. :muah:

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 06:07 PM
First of all, :muah::hug:to you all. Y'all are so supportive, and I appreciate every single one of you taking the time to write your thoughts...even if they contradict someone else's. It's good to have many different opinions, so I can weigh them against/with my own. You know what I mean.

I did make her an appointment with a Christian counselor. I asked her if she wanted to go to our youth pastor or someone she doesn't know. I did not give her the option of the person being a Christian. As her parent, I believe it is within my right to direct her using Christian principles.

She seems relieved that the appointment has been made. She goes on Monday afternoon.

Y'all brought up some very good points in your posts. I don't think that we're going to allow her to have a page on any site. We have very strong safety and moral convictions about this.

I also don't think I'm going to take soccer away. One thing this has taught me is that taking stuff away just doesn't seem to faze her. She's managing to get around the rules. I'm not going to give her the laptop back, and I've added passwords to my Windows user accounts. I've also deleted her email account for now. I think we just need a fresh start, when we're ready.

I really don't have much of a plan right now. My head is still swimming with the shock of discovering that she's not who she's been portraying herself to be.

Going to the counselor on Monday will be a good start for now.

More updates in a bit...she cooked dinner and it's ready.

Arielluria
06-28-2007, 06:27 PM
I know it's heartbreaking as you put it, but at least she did admit and she said she needs counseling. I think that is a major positive sign. I recommend you get on that with her right away. I will PM you further info on that.

You know you CAN do things to your computer to keep her from being able to do those things. For one thing, make her account a non-administrative one so that she cannot even install programs without your knowledge. Also, you could have keystroke logging programs which will show you EVERYTHING she types. That's the type of things which employers use and they run in the background and the person cannot even tell it's there by looking in the programs folder.

Those are just SOME things which I believe would be good for any parent to have on their computers. You never know if your child could be lured into something even if it weren't their own idea.

Praying for you dear!

Lucy Fan
06-28-2007, 06:34 PM
I've been following your story for awhile. I forget how old you said your daughter was, but for what it's worth...I was a rebellious teenager. It was very hard on my parents. I'm 29 now so I can look back on those times and somewhat remember how I felt, and at the same time see how difficult it was for my parents. For what it's worth, teenagers don't do these things to jeopardize their future relationships with their parents. I never really thought about how it made my parents feel. I know it hurt them, but all I thought about was how their rules made me feel. I started sneaking out at night, I had sex, I skipped school. I'm sure none of those things I just told you make you feel any better. I did not grow up in a Christian background but I'm not sure it would have changed anything. When I got to college it was all the girls with the strict Christian upbringings that rebelled then...they were all just waiting to get away from their parents to do it. I didn't have the interent when I was a teenager, I'm sure that the internet makes being a parent to a teenager a thousand times more difficult. Have you ever thought that maybe she doesn't feel like she should have to obey the rule of no myspace or facebook because of how active you are on a community type of site. In her mind she would probably see it as one and the same and feel like it's unfair. That's probably how I would have seen it when I was a teenager. I'm sure she probably feels even safer when she's on there because there are saftey features to those...like unviewable accounts and such...but there are none here. Most times I never log in to view any of the boards here and I find tons of personal information from all the people here...all grown ups...and all feeling relatively safe because of the great community here. Yet anyone can join, and anyone can read offline. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that she wants you to love her, but she also wants to try making some of her own decisions in her life. If she were my daughter I wouldn't take everything away from her. Taking everything away would push her to hate you and rebel further. I think the Christian counselor is a good idea to help improve her relationship with God. And I think that if she were my daughter I would work together on some of the rules. Especially with myspace and facebook...can you come to some sort of compromise? You don't want to lose your daughter forever. You don't want her itching to turn 18 so that she can leave do you? But you don't want her unsafe either...there has to be a way to work it out so that she is neither unsafe, nor rebelling to the point where she is unsafe as well. I feel for you, I really do. My parents had it so hard until I got into my 20s. Things will get better.

Nobones
06-28-2007, 06:36 PM
Sweetie I am SO sorry to read this. I had hoped things would go well for you.

I have to say I feel she is being very unreasonable saying she is angry at you. I can't understand it, you've given nothing but unconditional love and support along with the benefit of the doubt and she's angry with you! I'm not surprised your heart is broken. At the age she is now and the comforts she does have she needs to think herself lucky a lot of people don't have the support she does, or the comfort of faith.

I hope she comes to her senses and realizes what a loving Mother she has in you and I'm very sorry but I feel so angry that's she's taking you for granted.

I hope things get better, in the mean time what happens about about football?

mks22300
06-28-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't have any advice for you, but I do hope everything works out for you and your daughter! :hug:

Andrea
06-28-2007, 06:47 PM
Just some quick advice...if the computer was located in a central place, this could help too...

No computer in her room, no laptop wandering all over the house.

Kids are less likely to go to websites they shouldn't when the computer is in the family room, right where Mom and Dad can see it all...

:shrug:

Good luck!

debinoz
06-28-2007, 06:50 PM
My oldest DD has a Bebo account which I check regularly. I also check all of her "friends" pages to see if they aren't giving out too much info.

Her argument was that she was an American and that America had a little thing called The Constitution, and according to the first amendment, she had a right to express herself if she caused no one else any harm. I could not argue with her because I can't tell her she has to be 18 to enjoy the rights and freedoms of all Amercans.

All I can do is keep a close watch on her account to try and keep her safe.

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 07:10 PM
Here are more of my thoughts that I couldn't get out earlier because I had to rush off to dinner...

Along the Christianity thing, one thing that struck me was what some of you said about her rebelling against it. I'm not so sure that this is what she is doing. I don't think that most people are born with the desire to live a Christian life. That decision does not come easy to most people.

What I believe she is doing is feeling her way through her teenage life. This is the time when teens are starting to formulate the basis for their beliefs. I cannot do my part as a Christian mom if I don't guide her toward Christian principles and a Christian lifestyle. I know that I will not be able to "force" anything on her, just as God does not force us to choose Him. She might choose to stray from these teachings or totally reject them. If this happens, I will probably be devastated. Ultimately, I trust in God's plan for her life.

Oh, and I know full well that many kids, regardless of their upbringing, rebel (or go wild) in college with all of the new-found freedom. My hope that she will remember her foundation and return to it. There is a promise given in the Bible, "Bring up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Even the prodigal son went home eventually.

We, as parents, are laying foundations for our kids. What foundations are we giving them? All of this trouble with her reminds me of how important it is to lay a solid foundation.

Oh, and at dinner tonight, dh mentioned to her a soccer camp that her best friend is going to in. My dd has been invited to go. I'm like :hair:. Are you kidding me???

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 07:21 PM
Just thought I should explain about the computer...

She has been using MY computer, which is located in our extra bedroom. She was using my computer when I was at work. I go in early, work part-time, and am home right after lunch. Kids are always asleep when I leave and have usually been up for only about three hours when I get home.

Both of my kids have laptops. We took her's away as part of the summer restriction (remember my other thread on parenting?). I hid the battery and the power supply. My son keeps his laptop in his bedroom but pulls it out into the family room when he goes on the internet. That is a very strict rule, and I've heard them tell their friends about it, so friends are always gathered around our large dining room table.

The reason why my computer is in the bedroom is because I'm the only one who uses it since they have their laptops, and we have a wireless network in the house. I've since put passwords on my computer and will probably go ahead and put passwords on the kids' computers too.

Now, what I could probably do is limit internet access during the day through the router. I think I saw a setting somewhere. I do have options.

I just hate that I can't trust her, though. She's 15 years old! The State of Florida thinks she's mature enough to operate a vehicle, with parental guidance. Why can't I trust her?! Aaarrrggghhh!!! What a mess.

Hey, have I told y'all how totally WONDERFUL you are? You continue to let me cry on your shoulders. I have cried so much today, but it really helps knowing you are here for me. I'm sorry to be a whiner. I can only hope that by sharing our struggles (by the way, thank you for sharing yours'!), that we can learn from each other.

Group hug... :grphug:

jeanius80
06-28-2007, 07:26 PM
:hug:

five_six
06-28-2007, 07:46 PM
Auburnchick - I haven't finished reading through this thread yet, and I plan to in a sec, so I may have more to add, but one thing you posted just really jumped out at me:

Now, I know that there are many people who aren't Christians who make good decisions. In my daughter's case, though, I just don't think she can do it without God. She knows what she needs to do, she just won't (or can't) do it.

Maybe your daughter knows you feel this way about her, and this is what has created her anger issues - we all need to be trusted (and YES absolutely that has to be earned), but as some suggested, maybe she won't end up taking on your faith, and maybe she's formed the opinion that without her 'believing in God', that you believe she is doomed to be a failure. Trust and Faith are very different things, and maybe you need to extend your faith to your daughter as well. She is still learning afterall, and while you want to protect her, learning can only come from making mistakes, and sometimes these mistakes, yes, can be horrendous, but they are her mistakes to make, not yours, and no amount of intervention can stop some people from learning in this way :shrug: (and just an aside, maybe you need to trust that whatever path God has put her on, it is for a reason, she may just need to be experience this for a very important lesson that God is sending her way)

My thoughts are definately with you though through this setback, and I'm gonna keep reading the thread.

chiricahuagal
06-28-2007, 08:06 PM
Not that this would help much, but if you took the mouse/keyboard with you to work, well, no one could use your computer... maybe even take just the mouse. Or take the modem with you to work everyday. Then no one could get on the internet til it was home and plugged in.

Just a thought.

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 08:30 PM
Not that this would help much, but if you took the mouse/keyboard with you to work, well, no one could use your computer... maybe even take just the mouse. Or take the modem with you to work everyday. Then no one could get on the internet til it was home and plugged in.

Just a thought.

:teehee:

Thanks...did not think of that. Except what a pain to pull out of this computer...

misstialouise
06-28-2007, 08:58 PM
Going through this thread, I've read all the replies and would like to contribute the following...

Have you thought that by sending your daughter to a Christian counsellor, as opposed to a counsellor who may or may not be religious, that IF she is struggling with her faith, she may not be comfortable talking about it for fear that the counsellor may try and strongarm her into a 'choice', or that she may just end up not getting everything off her chest?

I worry about that, tbh. It's not that I have anything against reglious consellors, but if that is her problem, she may need someone who is completely unbiased.

As for the internet.... if you have a wireless network, you should have a firewall. If that's the case, you should be able to set up sites that are banned for each IP address.

Just my opinion... but all teens are different. I know that if I had counselling when I was a teen, I may not have needed anti-depressants when I was an adult.

auburnchick
06-28-2007, 09:43 PM
I do not believe that a Christian counselor is going to strong-arm her into believing something she doesn't want to believe in. That's not what this is about. It's about my daughter getting the help she has requested. Perhaps by examining her feelings, she'll be able to understand why she's choosing to disobey us...why she is making these bad choices.

By being a Christian, the counselor will approach my daughter's therapy with a prayerful attitude. The counselor will utilize Biblical principles. Christianity is not a cult. It's not something you get strong-armed into. It's a relationship with God. Along with the relationship comes certain principles.

I simply want someone who has the same beliefs that I do to listen to my daughter.

Oh, and thank you for the firewall advice. You certainly can block various web sites. I'll have to add that to my to-do list.

snowbear
06-28-2007, 11:43 PM
I agree, A Christain Counselor will help your daughter in ways that a regular counselor wouldn't. If she is having issues with something specific.. (with teenagers they don't always know) he/she would be able to follow the teachings that you want as a family.

I know when I was going through some troubles.. my Christain counselor helped me in ways the one I had been going to didn't. It is just a different way of looking at situations that truly helped me learn why I was having problems as a teen.

Hugs to ya...

Good luck w/ the firewall.. as a computer smart type person, I know you can do that.. hang in there...:hug::heart:

ADAllen
06-28-2007, 11:46 PM
I had told myself that I wasnít going to post in this thread from the first moment I read it. I feel for you Auburnchick, but I do disagree with you. I actually give a presentation to incoming college freshmen twice a year about why it is very important that they get online and create an internet identity. I am sorry that you are struggling with this and I felt that you need support and encouragement, so even though my opinion is dissenting, please donít let it upset you. The only reason I couldnít resist posting is because I watched my mother and my brother go through a very similar situation.

First, on online websites: I do research in internet communication. Iíve found that the ability to communicate online has become a vital one in the workplace (ie. E-mail, regional list serves, online training and collaboration) so I tell my students that they must get online to practice. I also try to teach them that the not-quite-English that they use when messaging their friends is not appropriate for the workplace and we do exercises to learn about those different communication styles. I also tell them that must get online because their potential graduate programs and employers will google them, and if they find nothing it is just as bad as the vulgar and obscene MySpace sites. The reason for this is if you have no online identity in this day and age, your employer is likely to assume that you are technophobe or a luddite. This is bad because as I said before, the internet is vital in the workplace.

Iíve always believed in an Ďeducate donít shelterí philosophy of parenting. I would ask that you look at the example you are providing. You are clearly a great example of a good Christian, but you are also on a forum, building relationships with strangers and giving them your personal information. Try to understand how that might look like a double standard to your DD. I certainly donít want you to leave KH, but rather try to let her see that there are different types of communities online. The internet isnít bad, people are. Here we have a community that does things like knit blankets for charity, whereas other communities do things like post vulgar music or obscene pictures.

Like I said, my mother went through this with my brother. She took away his computer. She locked her computer in her bedroom. And she even started bringing the keyboard, mouse, and power supply to work with her. My brother didnít care. He felt that he was no longer being treated his age, he wanted more freedom and responsibility, and to him, she was acting ridiculous. He never once realized the concerns she had for him, and she never once realized that she was losing all of his respect. He left for boot camp days after he graduated from high school, and I have no idea if he has spoken with her since. I certainly donít want to infer that your relationship with your daughter is on this downward path, but I do want to point out that (in my opinion of course) there is a point in every parent/child relationship where things have to change from blind obedience to mutual respect. Even Jesus questioned ďWhy have you forsaken me?Ē Maybe He was making that shift from blind obedience to open discourse. It is not going to happen over night, but maybe it is time to start that change with your DD. If she can tell you that she wants counseling then my guess would be that she is ahead of her age in maturity.

PhewÖ now that Iíve gone and said all that, there is only one thing left...:hug::muah::hug::heart::hug:

Eloewien
06-29-2007, 12:48 AM
I went through some of this with my parents, and I'm now 26, and I think in the end, I learned a whole lot from it. On one hand, I'm still in a church... on the other hand, it is a completely different church than I was raised in. My mother doesn't like it, but she survives. The only person growing up that I could talk to in my church was the wife of my youth group leader. I couldn't go to the leaders because, as a female, I was not allowed to ask questions or express myself in class if there were any males present. (This was in Richmond, VA and still is...) I come from a family of very strong-willed people (on both sides) and I hated this. I still have no idea how my mother puts up with it.

Dad, on the flip side, is really the one I learned from. He is agnostic, and only goes to church for weddings and funerals... however, he has some of the strongest morals of any one I have met, and since he learned them on his own, he has good reasons for them. Being the logical type, I tended to listen to him more.

Now, I'm happily married to a wonderfully supportive husband who has made me realize where my values really lie. I am very involved in my church, and I don't know where I would be without it. I have a family there, and they mean as much to me as anyone. I may have fought a whole lot to get here, and I definitely made mistakes, but I found my way in the end.

I know this is a bit rambling, but it's been a long day and I'm getting tired... my point in all this is that I hope she works through it the way I did. It was not a quick process, nor was it easy for anyone involved, but I found my own way and my own rules for life... I just hope that you make it one day at a time, and she figures out that you really do love her and have her best interests at heart.

Hopefully counseling will help her. You might also think about group counseling for her- I think it helped me because you see other people working through the same problems and making it through. Sometimes, you have to see things working for someone else before you will give them a shot... especially as a very stubborn, strong-willed teenager :)

*Lots of hugs* you will be in my thoughts and prayers

pandaca
06-29-2007, 12:57 AM
I don't have any words of wisdom, but I thought my history might make you feel better.

From the ages of 14-16 I was a hellion - sneaking out, drinking, and some worse stuff. I had a horrible relationship with my parents. At some point, the light bulb clicked on for me and for them. I began to act like I was an adult, and they began to treat me like one. By the time I was in college, my relationship with both of them was perfectly fine. During my "bad" years, nothing they did or said made a difference, but now I can appreciate how much they tried. They let me know that they would trust me again once I'd earned it, and they were true to that.

I hope this awful time for you and your daughter passes quickly and that you are able to build a strong relationship. Someday she will look back and, even if she doesn't agree with what you did, will understand why you did it and appreciate all the effort you made for her.

Susan P.
06-29-2007, 03:49 AM
ADAllen.. There are some wise words in your post (I think you showed courage really in posting) and some have been offered previously. I believe kids do see inherent contradictions and when they do they will often resist requests. Right or wrong the daughter here has been questioning the sharing of personal info to 'strangers' on this forum and I dare say may feel angry and betrayed by said sharing. I believe in these circumstances parents needs to concede the potential contradiction and talk that through and perhaps..perhaps..move out of personal sharing online as THEIR concession to the modeling and behaviour they are asking of their kids. The distinctions we make as adults may not always be as easy to see for someone younger.

Re the Counsellor. I would make it the daughter's choice whether she wanted to see a Christian counsellor or not.

mum2caden
06-29-2007, 08:01 AM
This will not be the popular opinion here, as I can see, but I am going to say it anyway:

She is a teenager- right now those accounts are some of the biggest things out there for teens AND nearly everyone else it seems. Teenagers have that same willful nature as two years olds. They are trying to become adults, but they feel so controlled that it causes a lot of fights with parents. I think rather than say a flat out no, you say okay, and teach her how to be discreet with some information.

Taking away soccer is the completely wrong thing to do. You are doing that because you think it is the only thing that will work- but in taking away something so important to her, you could be really hurting her beyond her teenage years.

My parents took away my guitar & lessons when I was 15. My Mom constantly tells me how she wishes she realized how wrong that was. I no longer had an outlet and my life went totally downhill for awhile.

She isn't purposely TRYING to anger you by making those sites, she wants to have the same things her friends do. All that yelling? That is hormones and she can't help that either. I remember how angry I would get at my parents, I just couldn't stand to be near them sometimes because they just kept taking things away, or seemed to purposely say stuff to make me angry.

I moved out just after I graduated and went to Australia for a year shortly after- turns out everything was different. I no longer had the crazy teenager hormones, and now that I wasn't living with my parents and they had to let me be me, the anger just wasn't there.

Anyway, my point is, there IS another side to this, but if you take away her passion, you are doing nothing but further harm. It seems like your only option, but it is not, and it is not fair to her to take away something stable in her life when she is at this point in her life.

She doesn't sound like a bad kid to me- she sounds like every other teenager out there. I really think you should rethink taking away soccer, and that you should learn to allow her some control. That is where your fights are coming from and that is where you need to loosen up a bit, and teach rather than take away.

She will have to learn about internet safety sometime, why not teach her now, and try to understand WHY she lied. She is her own person and the best way to get through to her is to help her learn to do for herself.

Sorry this is so long winded, but I just had to say it..

auburnchick
06-29-2007, 08:42 AM
Interesting thoughts that y'all presented since I last looked here. I appreciate the different opinions as well.

I want y'all to know that we have NOT taken away soccer. I'm not exactly sure how that came to be understood during this thread. I mentioned that it was something we considered the LAST time she did this, but we wound up deciding against it. It's also something we considered when doing her summer restriction. Well, actually we did curtail her soccer activities, but that decision was mostly made for us since she has been rehabbing her knee. We do NOT plan to take soccer away from her either. That is not even being considered this time around.

Now, I have to respectfully disagree with the post about putting yourself online. I think you made great points, but I think those are more applicable to someone who is older. My dd is only 15. She has plenty of time for that when she is more mature. And I know for a fact that the things we post online can come back to bite us. Future employers do search for what we may have put online, and some of it, done with bad judgement, can adversely affect us if discovered by the wrong person. Yes, this has become a world of the internet, but she has plenty of time to learn netiquette.

That is why I do not think that my posting online is a double standard. There is a time for everything. I don't believe this is the right time for her to be doing the online pages.

I do not think that kids should be posting information like where they go to school and other things that can lead someone to their doorstep...which is what my dd and all of her friends are doing on their pages. The last time this happened, we told her the kind of information that was dangerous to post. One would think that if she was going to make another page (which she did) that she would at least have considered our caution and omitted that information. She either chose not to or it went over her head. When she gets older and a bit wiser, she can do what she wants. I am responsible, overall, for her safety now.

Hmmm...it's almost like sex. We're equipped with the parts, but that doesn't mean we should use them until we're mature enough (or in the right time of our lives to -- i.e. IMO, marriage). Just because technology has provided these "tools," doesn't mean that people should use them. At least not until they understand the ramifications.

Thanks again for the understanding words.

ironmaiden
06-29-2007, 08:43 AM
I couldn't agree more with pretty much all of that. It's important to strike a balance between protecting your child and allowing her to learn some of life's lessons for herself - as scary as it is.

Most kids have one thing, one interest, that keeps them grounded - taking it away can be a lot more damaging than it seems.

BostonBecca
06-29-2007, 09:47 AM
I've been reading these posts for a while now, and I have a few things to say. They are not intended to anger, just express an alternate view.

Re: Christianity. I think that it is great that people find something that fulfills them. However, many children of very religious parents do not believe the same thing as their parents. It's not a bad thing, it's how it is, and I think when children become older (yes, before they are 18) they are old enough to make their own decisions. I went to Jewish religious school until I graduated high school because my parents made me. It wasn't something I rebelled against because I was a "good kid" who did what I was supposed to do. However, it was not what I wanted to do or who I am. I believe in a lot of the tenets and traditions of the Jewish faith (please do not compare all of the tenets to Christianity-they can be very different and they are not the same in every way even though there are similarities). I just don't think the Christian counselor is the way to go, personally. It seems like Christianity will be part of her counseling sessions (prayer, etc) and that could be part of the problem. Whether parents like it or not, the teenage time in life is a time for children to find out who they are, and it isn't always who their parents want them to be. People need to make certain mistakes to learn and grow and it seems as if your daughter is being somewhat over-protected from making little mistakes. I think the basic tenets and beliefs of being a good person are way more important than the forms and habits of religion in general, so letting her know that you still love her and think she can be a good person is way more important than her conforming to your religious beliefs.

Re: Myspace. I think her use is rebellion. I think it's pretty understandable however. It seems as if she is pretty restricted. I understand you don't want to give in, but by not being flexible with your daughter, you are risking a lot. The world is very different even from when I was her age (11 years ago) and the norms for teenagers are very different. People sensationalize the use of these sites, and many of the uses are not what I would want for teenagers, but you can restrict that. I understand you wouldn't want to let her have one right away, but if you set a timeframe for her, such as in three months, if she has followed your rules, and gone to a counselor (who she needs to feel comfortable with, and a Christian one might not be the best for that) then she can have a page on a site of your choosing, such as facebook, with the restrictions you use, such as blocked viewing from anyone not her friend and the same for messaging, and only friends she actually knows, will help her learn responsibility. You can have the password, and view the site, etc.

I understand you are conservative and worried about her, but at some point teenagers have to be able to make small mistakes and learn lessons from those mistakes, and it seems as if you are trying to prevent her from making any.

Parents do have the right to raise their children in ways they see fit, but there is also freedom of expression, of association and of religion in this country as well.

P.S. This is not meant to be an attack or anything, so please do not take it that way. It's just my point of view.

PaperGirl
06-29-2007, 09:49 AM
My oldest DD has a Bebo account which I check regularly. I also check all of her "friends" pages to see if they aren't giving out too much info.

Her argument was that she was an American and that America had a little thing called The Constitution, and according to the first amendment, she had a right to express herself if she caused no one else any harm. I could not argue with her because I can't tell her she has to be 18 to enjoy the rights and freedoms of all Amercans.

All I can do is keep a close watch on her account to try and keep her safe.


Maybe so, but you also have the right to keep her out of harms way. Untill she is 18..she really cant say squat.

auburnchick
06-29-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm finding this discussion interesting. It's interesting because there are many parts of my life that you don't know about. There are many aspects of my parenting that you don't see. It's hard to include all of the details about my parenting in the post. Actually, it's impossible. It seems that what I have shared has led you to believe that I do not allow my children (namely dd since she's currently the topic) to make mistakes.

Here's what I believe our job as parents is (with my Christian bent, of course): To raise our kids to be responsible adults (in my case...who will hopefully love and serve the Lord).

Everything I do is geared toward that goal. My dd has a small job. I took her to the bank yesterday to cash her check. While there, I inquired about getting her a checking account next year when she starts driving so she can get a bank card so she can 1) be able to pay for gas quickly, 2) to learn how to handle a credit card, and 3) have something easier to carry with her when she's shopping at the mall with friends.

I will also probably get my daughter a regular credit card at some point in the next couple of years. She needs to learn how to charge things (that's the easy part) and pay for them when the bill comes in. I have her saving a portion of her paychecks, and she tithes a portion to church as well.

I'm also teaching my kids to eat healthy and the "why's" behind it. My kids do not drink caffeinated beverages or eat things with artificial sweetners. We try to limit the sugar. They understand why. They don't always like it, but it's what I feel is best for them. We eat organic and they drink raw milk (you ought to read up on this). Who cares of people think we're weird. What I'm teaching my children is not bad. We're developing good, life-long habits.

My kids are responsible for doing chores around the house, and my dd plans and cooks many of our meals. She handles her school business (with me overseeing, of course). She makes the choice (because I do not force her) to attend church. We pray together, do devotions together, and all that.

She makes plenty of mistakes, regardless of whether I let her. Sometimes the best way to learn is through mistakes.

However, we all have to draw lines somewhere. My dh and I have chosen to draw the line at NO web spaces. The news media does not sensationalize stories of kids meeting up with older men that they met because of their web pages. This happens every single day to people right on your street. You just don't hear about all of them. My husband has had to go find kids that have gone missing because they snuck out of their house to meet up in the middle of the night -- from meeting through the pages kids posted online.

This rule is not an option in our house. My daughter may not like this rule, but it will continue to be a firm one.

People can be very wishy-washy. We need to be firm in our convictions. You may not believe this, but our kids look to us to draw lines. They need guidance in drawing their own boundaries. They are not mature enough to set them on their own.

I do not believe in letting your kids "find their way" in a religious sense. They need guidance. There is nothing bad about Christianity. What's so bad about choosing not to watch a sex-filled movie? What is so bad about praying? Only good can come from it.

I hope this has not come across wrong. I just felt like I needed to defend myself.

I know it seems like I'm overprotective. Maybe I am in some ways. However, I believe that we are making the right decision. I don't consider myself overprotective. I consider myself pro-active and involved.

I don't know if any of you saw a recent episode of wife swap. I normally don't watch stuff like this, but there wasn't anything else on. This particular episode had one mom who let her kids do anything they wanted, and another who had very tight control to the point where they installed cameras in the bedrooms.

The second mom was way over the top, and the first was too lax. It was interesting to see them find a more balanced approach. And that is where I am.

That's it for now. Whew.

aineepooh1
06-29-2007, 10:59 AM
I don't really have any wise words of wisdom but just wanted to say i have been keeping up with this post ... and i hope you guys can find a compromise~:hug:

Susan P.
06-29-2007, 11:11 AM
auburnchick..

Try to look at it from your daughter's perspective. When you *made* her come and read a previous thread, what did she see? YOU wanted her to see an array of opinions and I assume many backing your point of view and so on. All SHE might have seen was her and her life outlined, online, for a whole bunch of people she didn't know, without her permission.

I can honestly say, if my partner or son or similar had done this to me I would have felt very betrayed and upset - and I'm used to online and am an adult. Even while I may have accepted that person's need to connect with others and to talk, I would have been upset.

I absolutely..without any reservation..agree with your concerns and distress about your daughter creating a site (yet again) when you've warned her off this HOWEVER, in the process of telling her not to do this, you drag her to this forum where HER life and person IS put on the net, by you. You don't see how this may be confusing and may have led to a lot of resentment and anger on her part? YOU don't see it as a double standard but perhaps you may need to accept that she does...

Aside from some very strict usage - for homework or for knitting advice or to answer business/family emails etc - it might pay you all to step away collectively from the computer for a while - simply in the sense of Christian fellowship and preparedness to all do without for the sake of the person in crisis. Removing a mouse or keyboard should not be seen as an inconvenience but perhaps a Christian act of assistance to a family member in crisis. Perhaps be heartful there are things you can do and be glad that you can share the burden in different ways. Computers are wonderful wonderful tools but by gosh they can stop some families from talking to each other at times also. Some get into the rut of argument/somewhat silent (with the silence attributed to people being on a computer).

I won't post again on this topic as I am concerned about hurting feelings but I did feel strongly about this as equally. Many years ago my own offspring took me to task about my own computer use and, for a while, I was absolutely resistant to changing my behaviour and, actually, resentful I had been questioned. In the end it did me good to review, but golly I was deeply angry for a time.

debinoz... If YOU are paying for the account etc and the offspring is not yet autonomous financially, you have every right to proscribe certain rules and obligations. It can always pay to talk to young people about all the OTHER issues to do with age rights. For example, why is there an age of consent. Why are there child labour laws..and so on.

hunterjenn
06-29-2007, 11:20 AM
Poor Nathalie! :hug: I hope everything works itself out soon. :heart:

msoebel
06-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Perhaps I missed something...but to my knowledge there wasn't any indication that auburnchick's daughter was going through a religious identity crisis.

Even kids who agree with their parent's religious beliefs will disobey them. Shock of all shocks, Christians mess up. And Christian teens aren't so different than other teens. They want the same things: to be popular, to have lots of friends, and for others to not think they are weird. Quite honestly, she created the myspace and facebook accounts for those reasons...not because she was questioning her belief in God. She lied to her parents because of developmental age, not because she doesn't believe in the Bible.

It was just interesting that this became very much about religion and God, when really, it's a teenager rebelling against her parents and trying to establish her own independence. Kids break rules...Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist...they all do it. This isn't about auburnchick's religious beliefs. It's about a teenager who lied and went behind her parent's backs because she wanted to do something "cool" that her "uncool" (her words, not mine) parents wouldn't ler her do. She lied because she didn't want to get in trouble, not because she is striving to find her religious identity (by the way there are many, many Christian kids on those websites!).

Misty

iza
06-29-2007, 11:49 AM
You're absolutely right Nathalie. For sure we don't know the whole story, context and we don't know your DD's side of the story either! The cause of your DD's "rebellion" could be religion-related, but it could also not. It's important to keep that in mind.

However it's important that you ask yourself why you need a counselor. Is it for you or for your DD? I think people's concern with a Christian counselor is that this person could be good for you, but will it be for your DD? If your daughter doesn't believe in Christianity, and that this is part of the problem, it won't do anything for her!

It's important you keep an open mind before going to a counselor, may he/she be Christian or not. A good counselor will not "fix your daughter" so that she finally does what you want. The counselor will probably fix your family. The work will not be entirely on your DD's shoulders, there are chances the counselor will make you change some things as well. That's what I meant in my first post. My mom is a counselor, and the families she work with are sometimes very surprised. A lot of families come in with problems with a teenager. But sometimes the problem isn't the teenager at all...

I think you are doing the right thing by getting some help. It's important you keep things in perspective though, your daughter is probably the way she is because she's smart and wants some independence. It might be difficult now, but in many ways it's also a good sign. :hug:

msoebel
06-29-2007, 12:18 PM
Oh, maybe I should add that I am a Christian counselor.

People have pretty weird ideas about what that means.

No, I don't neccesarily pray with everyone I counsel (Depending on the situation, I would ask if they would like me to pray with them). When I talk with teenagers about what is going on at home, I don't start talking about evil spirits and Satan. We discuss the whys of their decisions and behavior.

Basically, a Christian counselor is a professionally trained counselor who believes in God, and who may bring God into the counseling sessions. For example, in this situation with auburn chick and her dd, I would ask her dd why she felt she needed to have these accounts. And if they were so important to her to have, why she didn't try to discuss the situation as an adult, rather than sneak around behind her parent's backs. We would discuss consequences for behavior, I would ask her why she thinks her parents don't want her to have the accounts, and if she agrees with their reasoning. I would ask her about the hostility she feels toward her mom and I would work with her and auburn chick to develop communication.

And yes, because I am a Christian counselor, I might ask her about her thoughts on God and how He fits into the whole thing.

For some reason, people think that Christian counselors are huggy prayer freaks whose sessions involve casting out demons and shoving God down people's throats.

It's not like that at all. At least if you go one who is actually trained!

Misty:thumbsup:

Miss Moosey
06-29-2007, 01:11 PM
A good counselor will not "fix your daughter" so that she finally does what you want. The counselor will probably fix your family. The work will not be entirely on your DD's shoulders, there are chances the counselor will make you change some things as well. That's what I meant in my first post. My mom is a counselor, and the families she work with are sometimes very surprised. A lot of families come in with problems with a teenager. But sometimes the problem isn't the teenager at all...

I would suggest at some point maybe bringing the whole family in for counseling a few times. I'm not suggesting that your family needs to be "fixed" (far from it!). But a counselor might help you all be able to communicate better with each other at home or air feelings that are uncomfortable to just bring up in any other setting.

Another thing--be sure to communicate to your daughter that your anger about the websites is really secondary. From what I have read, it seems like the big issue here is trust. Your daughter might be more likely to shrug you off if you make this just about her web usage, but maybe talking about how hurt you are that you can't trust her will hit home for her. When I was younger I didn't really care about making my mom angry, but I couldn't bear to see my mom sad (my mom is a master of Jewish Mother Guilt).

Have faith that there will be brighter days ahead!
Rebecca

Rorshach
06-29-2007, 01:59 PM
Hey Nathalie, I understand to a certain extent what you're going through, and if you are concerned about further violations that your daughter may or may not commit on the computer, one thing to get is a keylogger. basically what it is, is a hard- or software program that will record all keystrokes, whether they be writing a letter, or surfing the internet, especially if she's clearing the history to cover her tracks, she'll have to retype the web address to get where she wants to go. I know it seems a kinda harsh thing to do, but it is only a suggestion that you might take a look into.

auburnchick
06-29-2007, 02:09 PM
Perhaps I missed something...but to my knowledge there wasn't any indication that auburnchick's daughter was going through a religious identity crisis.


Misty,

Thank you! I appreciate how you explained your role as a Christian counselor as well.

Y'all need to realize that my dd ASKED for counseling. I did not suggest this to her. She came to me out of her own volition and requested it.

I don't expect anyone to "fix" her. She just needs someone to talk to. I prefer if that listening ear is a Christian. She needs to try to understand why she is choosing to disobey us.

I fully expect this to lead to family counseling as I don't think that her problems just suddenly appeared one day. I feel as if a lot of her problems are my fault. I am willing to own up to that. I have faith that God can fix our brokenness.

I came to y'all because I don't have many friends IRL. I don't have time. I spend a lot of time on the computer doing school work. It's natural to flip over to another tab and check out what's going on here. Some people go to lunch with friends. I don't have that luxury. However now I am starting to feel self-conscious about having shared what I did. I can only hope that by putting myself out there (here, I mean), someone else will be helped -- someone who may be going through something similar or maybe someone who, in the future, will remember this thread and draw ideas and support from it.

If some of you feel that I've violated my daughter's trust in doing so...well, I can only offer this. Do you not ever talk to friends about your child-rearing, spousal, or significant other issues? We all need people to lean on. Maybe this isn't the right place for that, and if I've offended anyone, well then I apologize.

I'm not mad, and I'm not upset. I appreciate everyone's suggestions, but this thread took a turn I did not expect. But that's a risk we take when we delve into hot topics like parenting.

I still care a lot for all of you...even if I disagree with your opinions.

:muah::hug:

Kaydee
06-29-2007, 02:21 PM
I do not believe in letting your kids "find their way" in a religious sense. They need guidance. There is nothing bad about Christianity. What's so bad about choosing not to watch a sex-filled movie? What is so bad about praying? Only good can come from it.

I completely agree with you on this. My mother always believed that it was important to raise us in some kind of religious setting, whatever that may be, for my family it was Catholicism. She was raised Catholic and got married within the church but wasnít really strongly practicing her religion. When she had my brother and I she wanted to raise us Catholic so we went to church and CCD class every week. When I got in high school and was making my Confirmation we were told that it should be our choice that we were there and we were old enough that our parents couldnít ďforceĒ us to be doing this. Well I went home and told my mom that I decided that I didnít want to make my Confirmation. She didnít force me to go back to classes but she defiantly talked me into going back. After I graduated high school I ended up going to a Catholic college, it wasnít necessarily because of the fact that it was Catholic, but more because I really liked the school. Now my parents didnít raise us as strict Catholics but we did attend church and such. I was very surprised when I went to college the rules that we were expected to follow (nothing major just things like they didnít serve meat on Fridays so if you ate in the cafeteria you couldnít get any kind of meat only fish and veggies and such. You could though cook meat in your apartment, it wasnít a rule that you couldnít eat mean just that we werenít allowed to get it in the school facilities). I think something that may have drawn me away from my religion is that there are many beliefs that I just simply do not share. Attending a Catholic college not practicing my religion very strongly was an interesting experience for me, but I loved my school and would never change my choice to go there for anything in the world, I had a great four years there. I guess what Iím trying to say is that kids do need guidance and it helps many of them to identify with a certain religion. Who knows what your DD is thinking, I certainly donít know how she identifies with Christianity but it certainly is doing no harm to her by teaching her Christian beliefs. In my opinion kids should grow up learning something, anything to believe in and they can then choose later whether or not they want to continue on with it. I commend you for trying to raise your kids with strong beliefs and Iím sure its not easy with many of the pressures and things they face these days as teens.

ekgheiy
06-29-2007, 02:26 PM
Y'all need to realize that my dd ASKED for counseling. I did not suggest this to her. She came to me out of her own volition and requested it.
...
If some of you feel that I've violated my daughter's trust in doing so...well, I can only offer this. Do you not ever talk to friends about your child-rearing, spousal, or significant other issues? We all need people to lean on. Maybe this isn't the right place for that, and if I've offended anyone, well then I apologize.



She asked for counseling??? Sweet!!! Take the ball and run with; let her have it!!!
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif
That's quite a mature request IMHO and shows that she recognizes opportunity for improvement. Lovely!!

For what it's worth, you didn't offend me. RE: Your daughter feeling violated ... :thinking: I think it depends on who is reading this. Considering that I'm reading it, she shouldn't feel violated because at the end of the day ... I don't know who she is. ;)

Now if her friends or other people who actually know her are reading it, then she may have an argument because they all of sudden know more about her than she has told them. Of course, this would be predicated upon them knowing what forum to read, what thread to read and your user name.

Trippy
06-29-2007, 03:23 PM
Ergh.
I'm not exactly having the same trouble- my Mum kind of knows I have a Myspace, but I shouldn't.
But the only reason I made one was for my friends. Some are moving, and we're going to different high schools. I know phone, mall, etc, is an option, but a lot of us don't have time for it. (However, I didn't delete the history on my page- I know how to do so, but I didn't. My Mum also never up front asked me "Do you have a Myspace?" so I never felt the need to tell her I do. Lying like that is like WOAH bad news, and I feel sorry for you.)
Maybe you could sort of compromise, to prevent this from happening again? Maybe say " Okay, DD, you can have a Myspace, but only if you don't post any indentifieable information about yourself and set guidelines for your friends- no swearing, no personal info, etc, and you promise to keep me updated?" I did that. Er, set guidelines for my friends. My Myspace page is now clean as a... bathtub? I make sure my friends respect that, or I delete them from my list for a few days. (Since I posted the guidelines, I have never had to do that.)

::glomp::

Jeremy
06-29-2007, 04:16 PM
I just read through the whole thread and after reading your last comment I went back and read your first. You certainly are a good parent doing the very best for your child. You didn't ask for any advice and got a bunch, all of it well intended but much of it confusing and, as you said, based on an incomplete understanding of the facts. You dealt with all of it gracefully.

I have, to some degree, been in these same shoes this past year. Not the same set of facts but similar enough to empathize. It is only recently that I've been able to wipe away some of the feelings of anger and betrayal. It is difficult indeed to talk about these feelings.

You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.:hug:

auburnchick
06-29-2007, 04:35 PM
Jeremy,

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate them. I was hesitant to put in the last bit of my previous post because I was concerned it would be taken the wrong way.

I understand that it's natural for people to offer advice. We want to help each other. And I turned to this forum because it was nearly midnight, and I didn't think I could call my sister and friend that late at night.

We all, at various times, need validation that we're doing the right thing. Maybe I was also looking for that in my original post.

Anyhow, thanks for the support.

iza
06-29-2007, 05:10 PM
I want to say I'm very sorry if you felt judged by my comment. :oops: It's hard for me sometimes to express myself correctly in English and I did mean to support you, not judge you. Your daughter asked for help and you are providing it to her, in the end, it's the only thing that really matters.

Debbie
06-29-2007, 06:51 PM
The best lesson I learned raising my sons was ..... DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING they say or do PERSONAL .... It really is all about them. They are wonderful grown ups ... but still do not tell me things that they know will make me think they are not wonderful grown ups... and I like it like that!

auburnchick
06-29-2007, 07:24 PM
I want to say I'm very sorry if you felt judged by my comment. :oops: It's hard for me sometimes to express myself correctly in English and I did mean to support you, not judge you. Your daughter asked for help and you are providing it to her, in the end, it's the only thing that really matters.


:hug:

It's okay. It just seemed that the tone of the last few posts changed. It's been a really hard couple of days, and I'm a little emotional.

:muah:

cathoo
06-29-2007, 08:07 PM
Please please please go to a councilor yourself! You sound so sad! Remember, the ones you love the most are the ones who can hurt you the most too. Make sure that you look after yourself as well.

I remember myself going through a rough patch with my parents at around the same age. I remember just not being able to shut my mouth and arguing with my parents, and doing stupid stuff because I thought a boy was cute and would like me better if I did it. But luckily, my parents raised me right, so I would eventually apologize (if not in words, in actions) and my stupid stuff didn't involve drinking, drugs or sex. I totally blame hormones, because as soon as I was fully grown, all this anger and stupidity just disappeared. I stopped lying, showed that I was responsible, got some good grades and went to college.

Every bad apple girl I knew in high school has finished school and gotten jobs. They're becoming optomitrists and bankers, stopped the drugs, gotten married and had kids.

Please remember, IT WILL WORK OUT!!!!! We're all rooting for the both of you to work it out!

IrishKnitter
06-29-2007, 09:50 PM
I think that as much as we all understand each other, sometimes it can be hard because you just can't hear people's tone of voice on here. I think I can safely say that everyone means well. :hug:

Nathalie, I really hope it works out for the best. I'm sure your daughter knows deep down (even if she won't admit it) that you're doing all this because you love her and it's what you think is best.

I'll keep your family in my prayers! :hug:

SabrinaJL
06-29-2007, 11:11 PM
auburnchick, I also wanted to say I really sympathize with you. I've gone through the teenage years with my brother (we raised him from the time he was 14 until he was 19) and my daughter is 13 years old.

They did (and do) a lot of things that are frustrating/annoying/disobedient/etc..., but all in all, they're really good kids. I've had friends with kids who do things that make me feel guilty for even complaining about the relatively minor things mine have done. Every now and then, I have to stop and remind myself that they ARE good kids. It helps me to be able to take a deep breath and look at the situation without my perspective being colored by anger/disappointment/whatever.

debinoz
06-30-2007, 12:19 AM
I think you and DH sound like wonderful parents. DD is just a normal teen-ager who's testing her wings to see how far she can fly. I pray for you and DH to have patience. There's a lot of pier pressure out there and as was said before, kids just want to fit in and do the things other kids do.

I don't really know you or your daughter, so I can't really say what I think you should do. I DO know however that God has a plan and if asked, will give you the strength to survive this latest round.

As parents we all have our own basic guidelines we use to raise our kids. Some push the boundries and bounce back, others break through to find their own path. (Don't ask me how I know this one.)

It's heartbreaking, but I know you'll make it through.

snowbear
06-30-2007, 12:21 AM
A wise man once said, never judge a man until you've walked in his shoes for a mile..

I know all of us only wants to show support for Auburnchick. It is soo hard to go through what she is going through.

I admire you Auburnchick.. To stay true to one's belief is awesome..


Big Bear Hugs..

jeanius80
06-30-2007, 12:25 AM
how are things going today? did you have any luck find a counselor for her? i have been keeping your family in my prayers too.
:hug:
i hope my comments didn't hurt or offend you, i had ust wanted to offer a different pov

Nobones
06-30-2007, 05:22 AM
AurbunChick I really wish I had faith like like you. I think i would be nice to have comfort in times of trouble like you do.

I was Christianed 'Methodist' and went to church every Sunday and Wednesday with my Dad. When My Mum left my Dad, the church blanked my Dad, I was to little to understand why. I was getting poorly, I asked questions and didn't get answers. I haven't been to church since I was 14.

If your dd DID turn to you and say, "I don't want to be a part of this, it's not what I believe in" what would do? My mother went ape, and our relationship was never the same. But I couldn't keep going to church with the feelings I had.

Please don't misunderstand me, I think to have faith is a wonderful joyous thing and should be celebrated. It's just, not everyone has it and may be the problem with your daughter lies down that path.

And I think let her continue with so much football is wrong. It's a reward, and she doesn't deserve one. I wouldn't care less about the other people on the team, they are not your children, she is.

Big Big Hugs to you for steering through this very difficult path, and I agree with another member, go to some counselling yourself too, it's so sad to hear you so heart broken.

auburnchick
06-30-2007, 10:52 AM
Genius,

Thanks for inquiring about us. I didn't go to work the day after everything exploded. She and I spent a lot of time crying and talking. I made her appointment and basically tried to resume some sort of normalcy. It's interesting that life goes on. It's not like we locked her up. She made dinner, we ate together as a family, and we even laughed. I took her for driving practice around the block (yes, we ventured onto a public road), and we even went to Starbucks yesterday.

Dh is taking her to practice with her new team this weekend. I don't know if y'all remember, but she's on a team that is based several hours away from our home. I did tell her that she is, in no way, allowed on the hotel computer. She's not allowed to spend the night with any of the local players because we cannot trust her. She's very aware of the limits she has caused us to place on her. But, life is plodding right along. Bills have to be paid, my college papers have to be written, and my younger son needs to be attended to (he's a teen too, btw).

We have an appointment with a counselor on Monday. I am going to try to meet with her first to gauge where she stands scripturally, although it is a Christian counseling center. I need the person to be sincere in their faith, experienced with teens, and a "fit" with my daughter. We'll take it one session at a time. If my daughter leaves the first session uncomfortable, we'll figure out what do do from there. I won't force her to continue speaking to someone if she's not comfortable with them. I'm sure, in that case, it would be a personality thing and not a "religious" thing since that does not play a factor in this. If you knew my daughter, you would understand that.

She enjoys going to youth group. They do fun things, hear positive messages, and really support each other. I don't think she's going to reject Christianity. She hasn't totally embraced it as her own yet (there's two steps...repentance for your sins and acknowledgment of Jesus' atoning work on the cross). I'm not sure if she's made that commitment. Only God knows her heart.

But, because this is a way of life for us, she's fine with it. If she ever didn't want to go to church with us on a Sunday, well, she would have to anyway. We do this as a family. You never know when the message will strike her heart and convict her. Those are moments we don't know about ahead of time. God works in mysterious ways and moves our hearts when we least expect it.

Thanks for the continued support. As I said before, I'm not angry or upset with anyone. This is a public forum, and we're all entitled to our opinions (remember the censorship thread?). I just felt like I had to put the brakes on what I perceived was a turn in the conversation that was becoming troubling to me.

Oh, and I'm really okay. I'm generally a happy person. We all carry burdens, whether it be wayward children, difficult marriages, or health concerns. Sometimes our burdens can feel, momentarily, overwhelming. THAT's what I was feeling the other night when I posted this. I felt the weight of the world on my shoulders, and I was really sad. It's amazing how the sunrise...the start of a new day...can lift your spirits and give you hope.


:muah::hug::muah::hug:

ADAllen
06-30-2007, 11:08 AM
:hug::heart::hug:

auburnchick
06-30-2007, 12:12 PM
:hug::heart::hug:


Back at 'ya!

Rorshach
07-01-2007, 01:15 PM
A wise man once said, never judge a man until you've walked in his shoes for a mile..

Which is why I never judge women, I'd find it a bit hard to walk a mile in high heels. :roflhard:

All joking aside, I'd say it's pretty rare that you'd get somebody wanting to start a flame war on here.

auburnchick
07-01-2007, 02:15 PM
All joking aside, I'd say it's pretty rare that you'd get somebody wanting to start a flame war on here.



I agree with you 100%. We're all very supportive of each other.

grandmaknit
07-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Dear Ginny G:
God bless you and your daughter. At least, you fially have some sort of a relationship. My daughter went on her voyge through jail, drugs, running away for me -- the one person in the world she hated the most! I tried and did all that I could. She is now 40 yrs old and I have not seen her in 12 years. But there is a joy-- her son, whom my husband and I have been raising since his birth. I will pray for you and for auburnchick. God bless all the children!

auburnchick
07-01-2007, 03:40 PM
Grandmaknit,

What a blessing you are to your grandson. I'm sorry about your relationship with your daughter. Perhaps, one day, there will be a reconciliation between all of you.

:hug:

GinnyG
07-01-2007, 07:16 PM
Dear Ginny G:
God bless you and your daughter. At least, you fially have some sort of a relationship. My daughter went on her voyge through jail, drugs, running away for me -- the one person in the world she hated the most! I tried and did all that I could. She is now 40 yrs old and I have not seen her in 12 years. But there is a joy-- her son, whom my husband and I have been raising since his birth. I will pray for you and for auburnchick. God bless all the children!

Your post gave me chills and brought tears to my eyes. I am so very sorry. A good reminder that you can do everything right, or at least the best that you can do and still get your heartbroken in the end.

Nathalie, one thing about giving and taking advice is that what works wonderfully for one family is a total failure for another. So while I think sharing of opinions and ideas here is great, ONLY YOU know what the right thing to do for your daughter and your family is. So stay STRONG, you do have the ability inside you to deal with this situation. You love your daughter and I have all confidence that the choices YOU make will be what is right for your family. Don't for a minute allow yourself to feel judged or criticized because you will do the right thing.

larudden
07-02-2007, 09:41 AM
http://www.dittytalk.com/index.php

A Christian MySpace Alternative

dakatzmeow
07-02-2007, 01:15 PM
i'm a little late to this thread, but wanted to add my support, nathalie. i have two beautiful daughters, 5 and 6 yo, and i'm already trying to lay the groundwork for their teen years. those years will be here all too soon.

i am studying and taking to heart the things you have shared here as ideas on how to handle my own precious children. at the moment, i am doing this on my own. :( i need all the help i can get. know that i am thinking of you and following your journey.

nadja la claire
07-02-2007, 01:39 PM
Hi Nathalie,

I hope things are better today. I haven't read all the posts here but it doesn't matter whether anyone agrees with you or not. You are doing what you believe is right and you're doing the best you can. We're here for you dear.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja :knitting:

auburnchick
07-02-2007, 03:54 PM
Thanks you guys! :hug:

Nadja, how is your friend doing? (the one you posted about in my other thread...the one with the daughter...)

kknittinfool
07-02-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm sorry I am a little late in posting. My daughter did the exact same thing 2 years ago. I punished the lying more than the actual deed. We took away all of her computer privileges until she could prove herself. Once she proved to us she could handle the responsibility of myspace.com we allowed her to have an account. We are able to monitor it and she is only allowed to talk to people she knows. It worked for me. When we went to counseling it didn't seem to do much at the time but I can really see results in her behavior now. It's like I had my old wonderful loving child back. I hope that this offers you some hope.

hummingbird
07-02-2007, 04:45 PM
auburnchick,
I hope that you and your daughter can work through these problems and be happier together! I wonder, how old is she? Did you already say and I just missed it?
All I can really do is talk about my experience. I was a teenager not that long ago. I don't think she was trying to hurt you. She was probably annoyed that you didn't want her to do what she wanted. Myspace and facebook weren't around when I was that age, but I was on instant messenger a lot. I really didn't like when my parents would look over my shoulder. I would close my windows so they couldn't see my conversation or start talking about nonsense and say pos (parent over shoulder). I would sometimes talk to people I didn't know, but I wouldn't tell them about myself. It also bothered me when my dad would tell me to get off the computer and go to bed. Just because he got up earlier didn't mean that I had to, and I knew when school started. He would threaten to write a program that turned off the computer at 11:00pm. My parents couldn't keep me from going to certain websites. I didn't go to really bad ones, but even if they had blocked it on their computer, I could go there with a friends or at school or the library. If they had told me not to go to one I liked I would probably have sneaked it and deleted the history. Now me and my sisters are on facebook. My sister in high school has had a page since they opened it up to high schools. She knows that I can see everything she posts there.

As kids get older they want more freedoms. Hopefully she will start acting better and you can reward her positive behavior and attitude with things that she wants. Someone suggested that you could get a myspace too and friend eachother. You can also set the privacy settings high to control who can see her page, ex only friend people can see it. Maybe that could be a reward for her and that way you can see what she's posting.

Well, there's my story. Good luck to you and your daughter!

auburnchick
07-02-2007, 08:06 PM
http://www.dittytalk.com/index.php

A Christian MySpace Alternative


This is a neat site, Leslie! Thanks!

dmknits
07-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Another Christian blogging site: shoutlife (http://shoutlife.com).

Shandeh
07-04-2007, 03:40 AM
I can't really offer any advice, just prayers for your peace and patience. I've been through some turmoil with my own sons. They are now 22 and 20, so thank God the teenage years are over!
:teehee:

AnnaT
07-04-2007, 05:02 AM
http://www.dittytalk.com/index.php

A Christian MySpace Alternative



Auburnchick, could you possibly bring this to the attention of your youth minister? I bet you aren't the only family in your congregation struggling with internet safety issues. I know that this situation is more than about the internet, etc. but still, maybe a compromise could be reached. If you did decide this was an acceptable alternative, maybe you don't even have to tell anyone at home about it, but have it come from another source.

I feel for you. As I wrote in another thread, I don't have children yet. But I wasn't unlike your daughter, and I feel so ashamed now about how my mother must have felt then, when I was your daughter's age. I would give anything to take those years back. My mother is my best friend now.

I believe that children that age truly are clueless, and simply do not have the experience backup necessary to see many things through to their logical conclusion in their minds, nor to see many things as they really are.

I read a wonderful quotation about parenthood once: The days are long, but the years are short.

nadja la claire
07-04-2007, 08:39 AM
Thanks you guys! :hug:

Nadja, how is your friend doing? (the one you posted about in my other thread...the one with the daughter...)

She's OK I guess. Her DD is 16......need I say more? Her DD's sweet 16 party didn't pan out. All the time and money her parents put out and only 12 kids showed. I felt really bad for her (my sweet 16 party turned out the same way). Although with the way she had treated my friend I guess the party was just Karma. I knitted her a calorimetry and a pair of matching gauntlets. My friend thanked me for the gifts because she said that her DD wouldn't bother and she was right. Oh well like I said she's 16 'nough said.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja :knitting:

auburnchick
07-04-2007, 07:35 PM
Auburnchick, could you possibly bring this to the attention of your youth minister? I bet you aren't the only family in your congregation struggling with internet safety issues. I know that this situation is more than about the internet, etc. but still, maybe a compromise could be reached. If you did decide this was an acceptable alternative, maybe you don't even have to tell anyone at home about it, but have it come from another source.


I probably will, at some point, talk to our youth pastor about it. I am checking out the site, talking to dh, and considering it.

BUT, as discussed before, our primary concern is SAFETY. A predator can go anywhere and pretend to be anyone. This is our biggest concern.

I do like the site because they do not tolerate any foul language or bashing. They also try to ensure that no identifying attributes are linked to a person. Their sponsors are closely scrutinized to make sure that they promote wholesome services as well. I am very impressed with it.

Anyhow, like I told dh, I'm trying to keep an open mind. It's just very, very hard.

:muah:

AnnaT
07-05-2007, 02:10 AM
I probably will, at some point, talk to our youth pastor about it. I am checking out the site, talking to dh, and considering it.

BUT, as discussed before, our primary concern is SAFETY. A predator can go anywhere and pretend to be anyone. This is our biggest concern.

I do like the site because they do not tolerate any foul language or bashing. They also try to ensure that no identifying attributes are linked to a person. Their sponsors are closely scrutinized to make sure that they promote wholesome services as well. I am very impressed with it.

Anyhow, like I told dh, I'm trying to keep an open mind. It's just very, very hard.

:muah:

It is hard. I can only imagine.

When I was about your daughter's age, I read a book called "The Stranger Beside Me" by Ann Rule. This was a book about Ted Bundy. It made a big impression on me because he would lure girls by pretending to have a broken arm or leg and a big stack of books (or something). The girls would innocently help him carry whatever it was to his car, where he would hit them in the head and drive away with them. This was before the days of internet, of course.

I'll tell you a story. Once I applied for a job at a residential home for teenagers. I got called for an interview. The person who called me told me what door to go in. BUT--it was on a Saturday and I was supposed to take the stairs down to the basement. This totally creeped me out and after arriving on the grounds and sitting in my car for awhile, I just turned around and went home. Calls I made to the phone number there went unanswered. Later I got a letter in the mail saying I would never be eligible for employment there again since I blew off my interview. So maybe it was legitimate, but at the same time, I do know that people can be very sneaky...I never regretted not walking down those stairs.

I guess I am trying to say that learning to recognize not-quite-right people or "off" situations is necessary on and off the internet.

bookkid
02-11-2008, 09:32 PM
hi . I'm a teen so I think i know what your daughter thinks. I bet all her friends have myspace and talk about it all the time at school or other places. I don't have one even though my best friend and a ton of my other friends do and sometimes it sounds cool butI just don't want one. Even so, sometimes when they talk about the things they do I get kind of jealous. You said that you tell her what could happen but what she's thinking is that it hasn't happened to anyone she knows, that she knows what she's doing and you're just being overprotective. I hope you just explain to her that even though it hasn't happened to any of her friends doesn't mean it's going to happen to her and that it usually happens to people who think it won't happen to them. I really hope this helps and good luck to you and your daughter. I hope you get this straightened out.

Jan in CA
02-11-2008, 11:42 PM
I hope you get this straightened out.

I think it has by now. This is an old post. ;)

knittingymnast
02-12-2008, 04:54 PM
oh, i hope everything goes well! :pray:

auburnchick
02-12-2008, 06:02 PM
This was an issue with my daughter I had last summer with my daughter. As goes with raising children, it's a roller coaster.

Thanks, though! :muah:

NegativeClock
02-12-2008, 09:43 PM
Well, sorry that someone bumped this up, but I hope everything worked out with your daughter. I'd give my advice, but there's no need to beat the dead horse. :D