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newamy
06-29-2007, 01:57 AM
Those with health insurance and those without tune into the new Michael Moore Documentary Sicko http://www.sickotix.com/
and prepare for some surprises. I work in health care, the insurance issue is critical for all of us in the US.

ironmaiden
06-29-2007, 08:50 AM
I'm excited for this one - hopefully it will bring more attention to a very serious problem we are facing as a society.

feministmama
06-29-2007, 08:55 AM
yeah Micheal Moore :cheering: Can't wait to see it!

Lieke
06-29-2007, 08:59 AM
Here in the Netherlands, it's obligated to have a health insurance, and I'm glad about that. When you get ill, most of the times you aren't warned. An insurance is always a good thing to have.

geekgolightly
06-29-2007, 09:00 AM
Those with health insurance and those without tune into the new Michael Moore Documentary Sicko http://www.sickotix.com/
and prepare for some surprises. I work in health care, the insurance issue is critical for all of us in the US.

Did you get the postcard sent by the CNA? I wonder when they are going national...

I really want to see this film. Michael Moore is a bit of an alarmist, but I think, in this day and age, it's what's needed to get peoples attention.

newamy
06-29-2007, 09:26 AM
Michael Moore is a bit of an alarmist, but I think, in this day and age, it's what's needed to get peoples attention.

I don't think he is being an alarmist at all on this topic. Our system is sick.

ironmaiden
06-29-2007, 09:39 AM
Here in the Netherlands, it's obligated to have a health insurance, and I'm glad about that. When you get ill, most of the times you aren't warned. An insurance is always a good thing to have.

My state has enacted a similar law - mandatory health insurance for all residents. However, the US healthcare system is such a nightmare at the moment that laws like this don't do enough to help.

Most US citizens/residents without insurance aren't uninsured by choice - they are uninsured by necessity.

iza
06-29-2007, 09:44 AM
He caused a bit of a controversy in Canada with this movie. I didn't see it yet, but apparently he goes in a hospital in Ontario and ask patients how long they usually wait. People say things like 20 minutes... it might be the case in this hospital but it has nothing to do with reality here in Montreal! :teehee:

This being said, as imperfect as our system in Canada is, I'm glad that every single citizen is covered, and that the care you will receive in a hospital will be the same whether you are rich or poor. Our hospitals are critically understaffed however and it causes a lot of problems. It's hard to find a perfect system... :pout:

newamy
06-29-2007, 10:01 AM
I'm glad that every single citizen is covered, and that the care you will receive in a hospital will be the same whether you are rich or poor. Our hospitals are critically understaffed however and it causes a lot of problems. It's hard to find a perfect system...My husband had a co-worker from Canada for awhile- he too said it wasn't always perfect and there were occassional horror stories- but in the US there are thousands of horrible horror stories- I have encountered a bit of it in my line of work-seeing people who either delay care or fear bankruptcy- not all poor people or even working people are guaranteed a right to health care here. It may not be perfect in Canada- but what a comfort to know that no matter what you can take your child to the doctor.

geekgolightly
06-29-2007, 10:14 AM
I don't think he is being an alarmist at all on this topic. Our system is sick.

??

His style is alarmist. He makes an impact by acting hysterical and jumping up and down screaming for people to pay attention. it has nothing to do with the content of his information.

I am definitely not judging his content bc I too, work in the healthcare industry and think this topic should be number 2 on the list of things to pay attention to.

ironmaiden
06-29-2007, 10:51 AM
??

His style is alarmist. He makes an impact by acting hysterical and jumping up and down screaming for people to pay attention. it has nothing to do with the content of his information.

I am definitely not judging his content bc I too, work in the healthcare industry and think this topic should be number 2 on the list of things to pay attention to.


It's not really "alarmist" if the problem is legitimate. The word implies making a big deal out of something that doesn't warrant it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alarmist

Phretys
06-29-2007, 05:00 PM
I was able to see this movie. Seriously, watching it made me angry. Healthcare in the U.S. is one big joke. Profits take huge precedence over humanity.

A few years back when my COBRA ran out, I had to scramble for new health coverage. The cost of the policy I ended up choosing was jacked up 50% when the insurance company decided I was getting too much treatment for my asthma. I had to go two years without any asthma treatment (that would show up on my insurance) before they dropped my rates back down.

I find it ironic that our own law enforcement is not allowed to profile people because it's unfair, immoral, unethical, etc. yet profiling is the backbone of health insurance companies. I once looked into becoming an actuary, but that whole career line turned me off because of the great emphasis on using the infomation from statistics and probabilities to make/save money for the company at the expense of people in need, just so some greedy CEO and a bunch of shareholders could line their pockets with another few million dollars. Actuaries do for health insurance what police are not allowed to do for the public. Why is it wrong for one but not the other?

Debi

ironmaiden
06-30-2007, 12:28 AM
The entire concept of a for-profit healthcare industry deeply disturbs me.

debinoz
06-30-2007, 12:34 AM
I haven't seen this so I was wondering if they make any mention or offer any solution to the people that "fall between the cracks?"

newamy
06-30-2007, 09:29 AM
I haven't seen this so I was wondering if they make any mention or offer any solution to the people that "fall between the cracks?"

It's worth your time to see. There isn't an exact solution offered, but there are several models that could be emmulated. First and foremost the US would have to abolish the concept of health care for profit. Get rid of insurance and pharmecutical lobbiests who are lining the pockets of our representatives. We need to embrace the concept of supporting the basic right of health care for all. And people don't just fall between the cracks today. There are those without insurance, and those with insurance who are dealing with being denied covereage for various and sometimes silly reasons. And even for those with insurance the cost of premiums and co-pays is higher and higher. I know mine is. The movie is right on the mark in illustrating peoples real and everyday problems with health care.

feministmama
06-30-2007, 11:10 AM
I saw him on the Daily show and he said we don't have the fire department set up as a for profit system. We just have it, paid for through our taxes. We don't say "hmmmm the fire department hasn't made enough money this year, we;ll only put out fires in this nieghborhood." Healthcare is just as important as putting out fires. Why do we make a distinction then? Becasue US businesses have figured out a way to benefit from using the corpaorate system to get what they want. Why they did with health care I don't know. But we got it and we got to fix it. It will be soooooo hard becasue we are soooooo intrenched in it. We're like fish who don't know we're in water but our water is toxic and we need to clean it up.

bailsmom
06-30-2007, 11:44 AM
I don't mean for this to turn into a political thread, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't take michael moores movie to heart. There is quite a bit of his information that is NOT correct.

Now I'm not saying our health insurance is great, personally ours sucks beyond words, BUT just because someone makes a movie about one side of the story doesn't mean his facts are correct.

This man is not a sane individual, just like rosie o'donnell. You need to look at all sides of a situation before you can judge and most of us don't have that luxury.

I only say this because I was watching CNN last night and they asked their medical correspondent to check the validity of his movie and some of his numbers he used in the movie were way off.

Don't bite my head off for writing this please, it's just my opinion. Too many of us go with whatever is put in front of us on tv, radio, newspapers which are mostly one-sided information. And usually the negative side.

Okay, I'm done. :thumbsup:

brendajos
06-30-2007, 12:36 PM
The truth is that even though everybody embellishes facts, to suit their cause, the most important thing that happens is that it starts the dialog. Anybody can skew information to benefit whatever cause they want...it is our job to do the research on our own and find out what the real truth is.

Silver
06-30-2007, 12:39 PM
*Putting on my Mod Hat*

This thread has the capability of turning into something heated and ugly. I'm not saying that it will, I'm just taking a preventative step to ask that you continue in a civil and considerate tone.

Thank you! :heart:

*Mod Hat Off*

iza
06-30-2007, 01:15 PM
I saw him on the Daily show and he said we don't have the fire department set up as a for profit system. We just have it, paid for through our taxes.

I heard him say that too, and it's a very interesting analogy. Actually, there used to be a "for profit" system for fire fighters, a long time ago. It was a disaster. While homes were burning, different fire departments would fight over who would get the job...:rollseyes:

I agree, bailsmom, his information is not always very accurate unfortunately. The same technique however is used by other lobby groups. It's probably his way to be part of that game. Of course, it's hard for us, "ordinary people", to get an objective assessment so that we can make our own opinion! Oh well. :shrug: Still, in the end, it's always better to hear more than one point of view.

Carrie218
06-30-2007, 01:40 PM
The movie is absolutely fascinating and has made me realize that if the U.S. system is not fixed in the next two or three years, I will definitely be moving out of the country, probably France.

And I am serious.

ChroniclesofYarnia
06-30-2007, 02:45 PM
I have long been for making health insurance companies non-profit, and also putting caps on lawsuits so that doctors don't have to charge 60.00 a visit to pay for their malpractice insurance.

From what I have read, MM advocates a government healthcare system. This is a horrible idea. We just have too large of a population, and anyone who has been in the military can tell you what joy a government run healthcare system is.

nadja la claire
06-30-2007, 06:30 PM
I don't always agree with Michael Moore but I'm all there on this one. I pay $468./month for my insurance and my DH is in the "donut hole" with his Medicare so all of his meds have to be generic if possible because his insurance won't pay for his scripts until we've spent $3000.00. Now I'm all for paying our own way but Jerry did pay his way for over 40 years of paying into Social Security and Medicare and what added insult to injury they didn't even give us notice before they cut him off, we found out when I went to pickup one of his scripts and the woman told me "That will be $153." Normally we pay $20 for that medication. When I asked her what was up she said that the insurance didn't pay their part. When I called they informed me that Jerry was now in the donut hole and so on. I think it's great though that our elected officials get free health care for LIFE, well not really free, we're paying for it but hey at least some Americans are getting free, high quality health care. OK I'm done with that rant.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja :knitting:

newamy
06-30-2007, 08:42 PM
Now I'm not saying our health insurance is great, personally ours sucks beyond words, BUT just because someone makes a movie about one side of the story doesn't mean his facts are correct.


I cannot verify statistics, of course, but for the most part I thought the essence of the movie was spot on. I have personally dealt with the uninsured, the denied claims, those who work hard with no insurance, the limitations. I could tell actual stories, but I also am obligated to not violate confidentiallity. Even though I wouldn't use names if I told a story that sounded like someone somebody here knew (an astronimical possibility, I admit) I could get in trouble. But to suffice it to say I have had to work with people who could not take advantage of health care services and had to mainly go it alone with phone advice. Ridiculous. Some folks don't even get far enough into the system to get phone advice. I had to deal with a denial for something for my son. My brother's wife is mentally ill and while Oregon has a law that all policies cover mental illness- it doesn't even scratch the surface of her needs. By contrast my distant relative in England, her son has an anxiety disorder (nothing near as sever as what my sis-in-law has), checked into a lovely mental health place geared for teens for a short while- I saw a picture and it looked great. And recieved a great deal of help. Not only that the family was quite calm about the whole thing and no cost worries.You just don't see that good fortune here when dealing with this sort of thing.

This thread has the capability of turning into something heated and ugly. I'm not saying that it will, I'm just taking a preventative step to ask that you continue in a civil and considerate tone.


I appreciate your alert, Silver, and I hope we can keep it nice. I realize Michael Moore is a contraversial person. He has however brought an important issue to the forefront where it belongs. I would hope if not him, someone else would. Without his movie the issue is still present; an issue I was already very aware of and I personally am pleased to see it get attention.
It is my hope, however, that everyone in the United states having access to basic health care would not be a contraversial issue, no matter who brings it up.

KellyK
06-30-2007, 08:42 PM
Its hard to know whose info is abslutely correct.... it depends on whose "study" you read. I dont believe the government numbers are honest, either. I LOVE Michael Moore's movies... albeit, you have to take him with a small grain of salt. His heart is definitely in the right place.... with PEOPLE, as opposed to huge corporations.

Yarnlady
07-01-2007, 10:47 AM
If the sky is indeed falling, then Chicken Little is not an alarmist. I think MM jumps up and down because he's trying to get your attention. Yes, maybe he exaggerates, but then again, maybe he's telling a truth that is much worse than we want to believe.

If Chicken Little is talking to the proverbial ostriches, then jumping up and down is a necessity.

ADAllen
07-01-2007, 11:13 AM
I heard on NPR yesterday that critics are calling this his least antagonistic movie. I think I'll wait until it comes out on DVD, but I'm going to see it.

nadja la claire
07-01-2007, 12:54 PM
The movie is absolutely fascinating and has made me realize that if the U.S. system is not fixed in the next two or three years, I will definitely be moving out of the country, probably France.

And I am serious.

I too have contemplated going to another country but that is not going to make things better. If we really want change we can get it. Americans have to decide that we are not going to be frightened by the insurance industry and their minions. We have to make the politicians more afraid us than they are of the special interest groups. And we can't just settle for whatever crumbs the government is willing to toss to us just to shut us up, we have to fight for good comprehensive health care for every American regardless of their income or employment status. Besides I have friends who moved to Paris and things ain't so rosy there either, even though they have universal health care, they have other problems.

:muah: :hug:

Nadja :knitting:

cheesiesmom
07-02-2007, 10:56 PM
I've just recently been diagnosed with a rare muscle disorder. My insurance (through my husband's retirement) would not pay $1,200 for a blood test because they "don't pay for genetic tests." But...they ok'd a muscle biopsy which entailed 1 day off work for me, 2 pre-op nurses, a surgical suite, 2 anestetists, 1 OR nurse, the surgeon and his minion, 2 recovery room nurses, a pathologist to review the biopsy and report to my neurologist and I don't know who else while I was out.

Fortunately we have health insurance but it keeps getting picked away at at a time in our lives when we need it the most. I personally think there is something wrong with the foregoing scenario.

Yes, MM hypes all this, but somebody's gotta pay attention. I think about all the kids with no coverage or the little boy who died because he had an abcess and no dental insurance.

Or maybe I'm just a bleeding heart liberal. Sorry.

brendajos
07-02-2007, 11:29 PM
I will never apologize for being a bleeding heart liberal! ;) The world needs us d*mmit! :teehee:

Anyway I saw the movie this weekend and honestly, it was probably one of the least antagonistic movies of his that I have seen. He doesn't place blame with just one group. He blames dems as much as repubs as much as the American people who put up with this.

Sure we are angry about it but we tend just bluster about it and not really do anything else.

There was a point made by an older British gentleman in the movie that was probably one of the most important points in realizing why we don't get people in office who actually represent us and our interests.

Democracy moves the power of government from the rich to the poor and if the poor ever feel disenfranchised, they stop voting - so it is in the interest of the rich to disenfranchise.

Were all of the numbers given in the movie accurate? probably not. Are the systems shown from other countries perfect? Of course not. That doesn't mean we have nothing to learn from them. And from what I can see so far, their systems certainly seem better than what we have going on right now.

ironmaiden
07-03-2007, 09:36 AM
I don't mean for this to turn into a political thread, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't take michael moores movie to heart. There is quite a bit of his information that is NOT correct.

Now I'm not saying our health insurance is great, personally ours sucks beyond words, BUT just because someone makes a movie about one side of the story doesn't mean his facts are correct.

This man is not a sane individual, just like rosie o'donnell. You need to look at all sides of a situation before you can judge and most of us don't have that luxury.

I only say this because I was watching CNN last night and they asked their medical correspondent to check the validity of his movie and some of his numbers he used in the movie were way off.

Don't bite my head off for writing this please, it's just my opinion. Too many of us go with whatever is put in front of us on tv, radio, newspapers which are mostly one-sided information. And usually the negative side.

Okay, I'm done. :thumbsup:

While you're at it though, I would suggest not listening to anyone on CNN either. It's entertainment, not news.

KellyK
07-05-2007, 01:50 AM
There was a point made by an older British gentleman in the movie that was probably one of the most important points in realizing why we don't get people in office who actually represent us and our interests.

We dont because most of us dont have the $$ that Big Business has to buy the advocacy of our "representatives".

We have to make the politicians more afraid us than they are of the special interest groups.

This was one of the points being made the other night by MM when he was interviewed by David Brancaccio on NOW (PBS). He mentioned this is the case in Europe. Government actually responds to the PEOPLE instead of the corporations.

GAH. Im SO frustrated today after listening to the speech given by The Cowboy In Chief in honor of Independence Day. He is just SO smug! He talks to people that disagree with him as if they are only doing so because they just dont understand why all of "this" is necessary. :wall::wall::wall: