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View Full Version : Anyone else sick of Harry P*tter?


brookehanna
07-20-2007, 11:42 PM
I know, I know. But I don't like Harry Potter. I read the first book and that was plenty for me. I didn't understand why wizards and witches were celebrating Christmas. Hmmm. (I don't want to get into a religious debate.) There has to be someone else out there that is anti-harry. C'mon and show yourselves!!

Susan P.
07-20-2007, 11:51 PM
LOL I'm neither for..nor against..however.. I AM concerned at these almost obsessive, cult like behaviours being encouraged. Someone bought an advance copy in Australia yesterday, was walking by a lake and accidentally dropped the receipt into the water..in he dove. He was pulled out by parademics absolutely hypothermic and had to be taken to hospital of course. There a kind doctor rang the store and helped the young man resolve it. As equally I don't like hearing about very young teens pouring debt onto their parents by obsessively ringing voting lines for Idol etc..on the belief that if only they might ring a few more times they may save someone!

And isn't the BBC now getting a justifiable flogging for having cheated so many prize competition shows - including children's shows. These shows need independent overseers.

kellyh57
07-21-2007, 12:32 AM
Yes. I've never read or seen anything Harry Potter. And I'm glad. I don't get into too many fads and I think this is just that. It'll fade and someday your kids/grandkids will laugh at you when you admit how into HP you were!

Kelly

feministmama
07-21-2007, 01:50 AM
Yup. Not diggin the HP either. The thing I *do* like about it, is that it has encouraged kids to read.

auburnchick
07-21-2007, 02:11 AM
I'm not a fan either, although I must say that I'm impressed with J.K. Rowling's rags to riches story. That's a story worth reading! :thumbsup:

Susan P.
07-21-2007, 03:14 AM
Well, it also certainly tells you how many books she's sold and what she's got for movie rights and memorabilia. In a basic book contract you get zero money (as author I mean) for the sale of the first 500 and then you start on only 2% of the sales price and that doesn't rise until another 500 to thousand are sold. Obviously a well known author would get more..but..she has certainly drawn in the wealth and that's for sure.

mel.b
07-21-2007, 05:28 AM
I'm another one who isn't really 'into' Harry Potter, although I admit I am keen to know what the ending is! I read the first 4 books but haven't bothered with the rest and don't plan on reading the last. I also saw the first 2 movies but wasn't impressed so haven't seen any of the others. I do agree with the comment about kids reading - I think it's fantastic, but I don't think it's a fad - I think Harry will be around forever - the adults and children reading Harry now will tell their kids when they are old enough to read it and it will keep going on.

Mel.b

robynbird
07-21-2007, 07:01 AM
I'm not into HP either. I've never read the books or seen the movies.

vaknitter
07-21-2007, 08:36 AM
ME ME ME - I am so sick of Harry Potter !!! Must admit I never read any of the books, fantasy has no appeal for me. I did go see the first movie with friends and was so incredibly bored that there is not a bribe large enough to make me go see any of the others.

The way the people I work with go on and on the last month speculating about what will happen, you would think Harry was living next door.

Anyway, thank you so much for this thread. I've thought about starting it several times myself.

nonny2t
07-21-2007, 09:39 AM
Oh my goodness! Well, I am a Harry Potter fan and not ashamed to say so even though I am 53 and have read the books each at least 10 times and listened to them on CD about as much. They are like this intricate mystery story to me where I get some clue each time I reread or relisten to them. I can understand it though that this has been the talk of the town so to speak for weeks. Be patient it will die down soon now that people have their hands on the book. It will become old news as there are no more books.

You have to be impressed by a couple things about this book, it has really encouraged a lot of non readers to read and it has brought families together for discussions at dinner, or while watching the HP movies. You can't beat something like that. No book in history has appealed across the board to adults and children of all ages where they can freely discuss it amongst families and enjoy doing so. We could surely use a lot more of families spending time together.

cheesiesmom
07-21-2007, 09:51 AM
While I'm not anti-HP and have seen the movies on HBO, the books used to drive my husband crazy when he was teaching H.S. English. His seniors would want to use the books for class assignments. His major complaint was that they are at about a 6th grade reading level. He felt that 16, 17, 18 yo's, particularly college-bound students, should be reading more advanced literature.

dustinac
07-21-2007, 09:55 AM
I'm not a fan but I'm not anti-potter :teehee:... I did try to read the first book but just couldn't get interested... I'm glad to see that so many kids want to read and like nonny said it is something you can do together...

Chel
07-21-2007, 09:57 AM
Nonny I totally agree. I love that it fuels imaginations. Today's kids are not encouraged to make believe as much as they used to. There is so much more to learn in school there isn't much room for free thinking.

The best things in the world were devised by people who not only considered a question and found an answer...they are the people who found the questions in the first place. I think its great when people think outside the box.

I'm 32. I have read the books and seen the movies and am still a fan. :)

One of the kids I used to work with was a 3rd grade girl. I started reading Harry Potter to her over the summer I got through 3 chapters and quit because she took the book from me and stuck her noce into it for the next 4 weeks. It took her that long to get through it but it inspired her to read which previously had been a tooth and nail fight. I'm greatful for that.

brookehanna
07-21-2007, 12:31 PM
I do think it's great that families can find something to read together and enjoy. What I find disturbing is how huge the phenomenon of Harry has gotten. It's a billion dollar business. Just imagine how great this world would be if everyone reading Harry Potter today put all that collective energy and money into something really meaningful like (insert your favorite cause here).

LibraryLady
07-21-2007, 12:42 PM
... Just imagine how great this world would be if everyone reading Harry Potter today put all that collective energy and money into something really meaningful like (getting kids to read).

The quality and quantity of books available for kids and young adults has skyrocketed since 1997 when the first HP came out. Fueled in part by the success of HP, this is outstanding! :cheering:

LL

zip
07-21-2007, 12:59 PM
While I'm not anti-HP and have seen the movies on HBO, the books used to drive my husband crazy when he was teaching H.S. English. His seniors would want to use the books for class assignments. His major complaint was that they are at about a 6th grade reading level. He felt that 16, 17, 18 yo's, particularly college-bound students, should be reading more advanced literature.

Ha! I knew it. I've never even held one of the HP books in my hands. My eyes glaze over when I see one in person. I've never had an interest in reading them and am astounded at the glut of adults who lap them up. My own sister! :doh:

I caught a bit of one of the movies while surfing the movie channels. Uh. No, thanks. The Princess Bride, on the other hand. :thumbsup: But it's like Bugs Bunny - written for the grownups.

I love speculative fiction, fantasy, science fiction... In fact, I enjoy all types of fiction that's written by adults for adults. When I was twelve, I read the Tolkien books. But that was thirty-five years ago. So... no, thanks.

Quiltlady
07-21-2007, 01:56 PM
I've haven't even seen one of the movies. I'm not into "spells" and things like that. :shifty:

Kaydee
07-21-2007, 02:33 PM
I understand being sick of all the HP mania since that's all that's been on the minds of people for the last month. I don't understand though the need to bash those who read/like the books. There are so many adults reading these books and I don't think it makes them childish to want to enjoy the books. I think its great that the HP books have encouraged more people to read and with adults and childern reading them families can have something to talk about rather than the latest episode of American Idol. I say to each their own, if you don't like them that's fine but I don't think its fair to put down those who do like the books.

jeanius80
07-21-2007, 03:35 PM
i don't think anyone was putting anyone else down for liking the whole HP phenomenon. i think those who are not into it or excited about it are just tired of hearing about it on what seems like every webpage/news site/community/t.v. news ....
it can be a bit annoying to see it 'everywhere'when you aren't even interested in it.
i do think it is a great thing that it has become 'cool' to read now =) i have never been one to read my appropriate age level. i read the trixie beldon books in 4th grade, and quickly moved to stephen king by the time i was 11 (the dark tower :heart:) i might read the HP books. but i'll wait for the furor to die down, and borrow it from the library :mrgreen:

Kaydee
07-21-2007, 04:42 PM
I didn't mean to over react about that. I just think the books are good things for everyone in our society today when people are spending so much time on watching tv, going on the computer, and playing video games. I think they've done a positive thing by encouraging people to read more regardless of age. I mean when is the last time a book caused such hype? I understand that it can be annoying to hear over and over if you don't read the books thought.

momwolf
07-21-2007, 05:39 PM
No different then all the hype about some of the TV shows. I would rather see people reading Harry Potter then watching TV

dreamsherl
07-21-2007, 05:55 PM
I've never been a HP fan. I am tired of all of the hype. On the other hand, I think that I get excited about things that others would roll their eyes at.

PCwombat
07-21-2007, 06:46 PM
I do think it's great that families can find something to read together and enjoy. What I find disturbing is how huge the phenomenon of Harry has gotten. It's a billion dollar business. Just imagine how great this world would be if everyone reading Harry Potter today put all that collective energy and money into something really meaningful like (insert your favorite cause here).

What if your favorite cause is promoting education and literacy? It's not like these people would be spending the money saving whales or stopping global warming.

As for the books being a fad, that's a pretty impressive fad, lasting ten years and billions of dollars.

Doodknitwit
07-21-2007, 07:23 PM
Not a fan..........no interest...:shrug:

Sissy
07-21-2007, 07:41 PM
I have not read 1 book about Harry potter.Just not my thing at all.Alot of people seem to enjoy it alot,and thats ok by me........Sissy

misstialouise
07-21-2007, 07:44 PM
The last book is certainly not written for a 13 year old level....

iza
07-21-2007, 07:52 PM
I read the first HP and really liked it. However, one was enough for me. I didn't like it enough to read all the books, there are so many other books I want to read! I think I would enjoy the movies though.

Now all the attention it gets is over the top. I am really tired of it. It has nothing to do with Harry Potter really, but more with the media being obsessed about it.

I do think it's awesome to see kids being so interested in literature! In that sense it's very positive... and indeed a good cause.

Knitting_Guy
07-21-2007, 08:03 PM
Harry who?

1knittychick
07-21-2007, 08:08 PM
Sorry, I love HP! My oldest son didn't like to read until I bought him the first book. That purchase got him hooked on reading; my youngest is now reading the 1st book, even though we have seen all the movies so far.

debinoz
07-21-2007, 08:33 PM
I liked the first two movies and didn't get very far on the first book. The latest movies maky HP look like a big baby.(Haven't seen the newest) I think it's great that kids want to read them. My kids used to not check out a book unless it had less than 200 pages. The oldest two (15 and 14) love HP, but the youngest (12) doesn't quite "get" some of the things that go on and didn't make it past the first. She'd rather read a good vampire story.

ETA: I would like to clarify that even though the older kids like shorter books (Eragon and The Eldest excluded) They both test at college level in reading comprehension.. They prefer the shorter books because they can take more tests to get more AR points. (Required for school and counts as 1/3 of their literature grade)

photogirl72
07-21-2007, 09:35 PM
Ha! I knew it. I've never even held one of the HP books in my hands. My eyes glaze over when I see one in person. I've never had an interest in reading them and am astounded at the glut of adults who lap them up. My own sister! :doh:

I caught a bit of one of the movies while surfing the movie channels. Uh. No, thanks. The Princess Bride, on the other hand. :thumbsup: But it's like Bugs Bunny - written for the grownups.

I love speculative fiction, fantasy, science fiction... In fact, I enjoy all types of fiction that's written by adults for adults. When I was twelve, I read the Tolkien books. But that was thirty-five years ago. So... no, thanks.


I'm sorry, I am a HP fan.

I'm sorry I believe in getting kids to read instead of playing violent games.

I'm sorry that my 20+ year old students can't read past a 6th grade level because they didn't have HP in time and had high school teachers that let them slip through.

I'm sorry that all local newspapers are written at a 5th grade level.

I'm sorry that each HP book is written at the appropriate age reading level.

I'm sorry that your husband can't seem to remember that his own students when tested can't read past 5th grade level.

I'm sorry that the American versions of the books had to be dumbed down because we can't read.

I'm sorry that even though HP may be a fad, at least it is an educational fad instead of Grand Theft Auto or any of the other cop killing, hooker screwing and beating games out there.

nadja la claire
07-21-2007, 11:22 PM
I've never read the HP books but I think if it gets kids to read than it can't be that bad. I remember how I felt when I was 12 and I saw a box set of historical novels in the local bookstore window, I told my mother that I had to have them. In the same store window I saw the box set of the Chronicles of Narnia and I had to have that too. I got both box sets for my birthday. I guess I'm just a nerd at heart. BOOKS RULE!!!! READING WILL ALWAYS BE COOL!!!!!!

:muah: :hug:

Nadja xxx

Jan in CA
07-21-2007, 11:39 PM
I had a post that I deleted and I have a million things to say, but I won't. We all have a right to our opinions. Let's keep it friendly. :hug:

brookehanna
07-22-2007, 12:01 AM
For me this isn't about reading or literacy. I don't have a grade school child, just a 3 year old. It's great that kids are reading.

Nadja..thank you for mentioning Chronicles of Narnia...that was my Harry Potter!

Jan- Trust me it took guts for me to start this thread. The knitting world is very pro-Harry. I was just curious if there was anyone else out there like me. We're all free to our opinions.

Yarnlady
07-22-2007, 09:44 AM
The last book is certainly not written for a 13 year old level....I would have to say the first one was not all the well written, may be even the the first two or three, but at that point she got her groove and these books are going to be classics. The classical good vs evil/light vs dark theme just like Star Wars.

As I stood in my local bookstore near midnight and saw the cross section of people there to pick up their books, babes in arms to septigenarians and everything in between. I especially like the 14-24 year old crowd there. They have so many things they could be doing and they are there to get a book. READING!

photogirl72
07-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Yes, it was very brave of you to start this topic. I think it wasn't the initial topic that got me angered, it was that it turned from the hype, ads and news to HP bashing.

In my community the hype and excitement didn't start until the day before the release, so I hadn't had much of all the hubub. So, to me there wasn't to much and I didn't have to worry about getting sick of it. Plus, I don't watch a lot of tv, so I didn't see any ads on tv. Was there really that many? My local paper only had 2 write ups, one the day before and one the day after.


Oh! Yarnlady, I agree with you, the first book wasn't written exceptionally well, but for a first book, she did fantastic. After a while, she really did get her groove on.

I've only finished half the last book. I have a huge research paper due tomorrow, so I am stuck writing it instead of reading. :(

leedsfan
07-22-2007, 02:41 PM
I am sick of it as well,i am not a fan,my son is or was,he is not bothered now.

MrsJSD
07-22-2007, 05:24 PM
For years I ignored Harry Potter. I knew it was for kids. I saw the first movie and read the first book. No big deal. I saw the second movie and read the second book. Surprisingly interesting, for a kids' thing. Then I read the third book and saw the third movie and read the fourth book and the fifth book and the sixth book (in about one day!) and I just saw the fourth movie and I CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY COPY OF THE LAST BOOK.

I PREDICT...Some of you who can't care less about it will pick up on it someday in the future and appreciate it for what it is: a really good story about good and evil.

and...SPOILERS should be stupefied.

stitchwitch
07-22-2007, 05:54 PM
It's not my thing, but I can't say anything bad about people getting hyped up about a book, I think it's kinda neat. Like other things I couldn't care less about, I just ignore the hype because it doesn't pertain to me. If it makes someone happy to be excited about HP then so be it.

Yarnlady
07-22-2007, 07:26 PM
I PREDICT...Some of you who can't care less about it will pick up on it someday in the future and appreciate it for what it is: a really good story about good and evil. And if they don't, their grandkids will and then theyll finally give and enjoy the story! :teehee:

and...SPOILERS should be stupefied.Ain't that the truth! So far, so good. I've got two disks left to listen to. I've cried more than I thought I would.

angel4ever
07-22-2007, 08:01 PM
As a teacher I am very glad that there are scores of children (& adults) taking time to read. It seems that at one point in time, reading almost became a non-existing hobby. Any book that engages a person to read is a wonderful thing, IMO.

However, I have to say that I am not a fan of the series. I read the first book and was not impressed by it, so I have not bothered to read any of the others. I believe I have seen parts of the first two movies and I still am not into Potter.

But whatever floats peoples boats...we have to remember, not everyone will enjoy knitting either...:flirt:

mwedzi
07-22-2007, 11:22 PM
Man, I'm glad somebody said it. I wouldn't even stand in line at midnight for yarn! Well, hmm, might have to rethink that . . .

I decided I'd watch the movies to see what all the hype was about. Like Vesper yarn, once viewing it, I was like "cute, but that's it?" Umm, anyone want my Vesper yarn? But seriously, I like the movies, they're entertaining enough, but they're just movies. I haven't read the books, I don't read fantasy much, though I'm all about the sci-fi. I just don't get the fanaticism, even the obsession over the plain-jane knits. What's up? It's like Dungeons and Dragons exploded. Of course, I say this out of complete ignorance, having never played D&D, either, because I was spooked out by it and the obsession I saw in it.

But hey, everyone has their thing, right? If I were rich, I would totally immerse myself in a fantasy land, one in particular of mystery and murder like those weekend murder games they have, or a real train trip on the Orient express, and I'm sure tons of people would think that's weird. Tons of people think my knitting obsession is weird. I accept this, as we must in life. So yeah, I think the HP obsession is a little . . . strange, but I know I'm judged as strange by others and that's just the way it goes, no biggie.

humblestumble
07-23-2007, 02:00 AM
I think its a wonderful story for kids, but I am tired of all the hoopla as well. I don't mind about any of the religious things, I just never could get into the story or the childish acting. In the beginning, I was "against it" just because it was popular, but now I am over that, and I am just not into it. Maybe if there were better actors, or different writing, I would like it.

I like LOTR, but I can't stand HP.

Silver
07-23-2007, 01:00 PM
I like the HP movies, but I don't get all cuckoo about them. My son is the big HP reader, and has read all the books about 4 times each, with the exception of 7, he's only completed it once since Saturday. lol But he's a big reader in general and reads all sorts of books.

BTW, I've never seen the LOTR movies. Saw half of the first one and thought it was totally boring.

jodstr2
07-23-2007, 02:03 PM
I'm not into Harry Potter stuff. I saw the first 2 movies with my spouse and stepson, and I might have seen the 3rd, but I don't remember.
my stepson has or had some of the books then handed them down to my friend with younger sons. he's away on vacation, but I'm contemplating buying him the book that just came out (I don't know which one this is, the 6th 7th?). he's turning 14 in about 2 weeks, he loves to read - to an extent - and I want to keep him interested in reading ('cuz I know he will just loooove :rollseyes: most of those "college-bound" books they'll make him read in high school).

I also don't know which movie just came out - the 4th? 5th? our friend told us we should see it in the IMAX theatre, so if Dylan comes home next month and hasn't seen it yet, that might be a cool thing to do.

anyway, that said, the hype is a little much for me, but at the same time I know I bore my friends and family to tears with news about my knitting, so...

cftwo
07-23-2007, 02:17 PM
I was firmly in the "why bother" camp regarding Harry Potter for years. Then one Christmas I had car trouble and was stuck at my parents' house for a week. On a trip to WalMart, I picked up Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone because I was bored and I was hooked. It's a classic good vs. evil story with characters you either like or hate. True, it's not written at the level of top notch literature, and it isn't as deep as some of that top notch literature. I really don't care for the movies either (it was better in my imagination). But for a good escape, where kids (and adults) use their imaginations, I think it's OK.

On Sunday I alternated knitting with reading.

Orangeus
07-23-2007, 03:10 PM
I'm a fan, first off.

Secondly, I find it almost amusing how so many people who can't be bothered with the series watched the movies. If the movies were an original idea, not based on the books, I don't think I would have ever watched them. Maybe for Alan Rickman, but it's hardly enough draw, for a few minutes of Rickman. Nearly everything else about the movies, fails...really hard. I'm so happy I had read some of the books before the movies came out. (I do give everyone involved in the movies credit though, since it's hard to turn a book into a movie, and HP isn't exactly written with a screenplay in mind. But others have done it better, with less. My friend and I joke that if the fans could kidnap the adult actors, a movie would be made that is epic, in comparison to WBs version)

And lastly, it's not my place to say I understand or get why you're annoyed, since I'm a book fan, but...heck, I get sick of all the shameless advertising too. But you've got to remember....LAST BOOK EVER. This is a huge thing. You guys could be celebrating! Never again shall you have to hear about the books during news, since there are not going to be any more (unless JKR goes back on her word, which would make me sad)!

In addition to that, a week before the book came out, a movie came out too, one that people were looking forward to more so than any of the ones prior. There are only two more movies, next year, and the year after I suppose, and then that's it. No more new HP in the world.

MrsDavis3
07-23-2007, 03:29 PM
But isn't it interesting, an author whose treatment of the subject grows along with the protagonist's cohort? Who else has done that? Can you imagine, for example, Junie B. Jones growing up and dating? That could be very amusing and keep children interested in reading her for many years.

GinnyG
07-23-2007, 03:59 PM
Harry who?


:roflhard::roflhard::roflhard::roflhard::roflhard:

I'n neither for or against, what ever floats your boat is fine. I didread the first 4 books with my kids (they were younger then ) and they enjoyed them. I enjoyed the first two but then found them tiresome.

Interestingly there was a report on one of the major new networks this weekend about HP and children reading. One big "claim" of HP fans has been that the series has promoted reading and brought kids to reading by the droves. APparently that is not really true. The number of "teens" who sit down and read a book now is about the same as it was 10 years ago. So while there may be alot of kids out there reading the series it isn't having a long term effect on the reading habits of our youth.

debinoz
07-23-2007, 04:05 PM
Daniel Radcliffe turned 18 today and in doing so got control of his money... all $46 million....

Yarnlady
07-23-2007, 08:27 PM
Happy Birthday, Daniel, and many more!

feministmama
07-23-2007, 09:01 PM
I decided I'd watch the movies to see what all the hype was about. Like Vesper yarn, once viewing it, I was like "cute, but that's it?" Umm, anyone want my Vesper yarn?


OOooh Oooooh me me:cheering:

mwedzi
07-24-2007, 01:33 AM
OOooh Oooooh me me:cheering:

If you really do, I'll sell it cheaper than the site. The color is In the Wildwood. PM me if you really want it.

mwedzi
07-24-2007, 01:36 AM
Daniel Radcliffe turned 18 today and in doing so got control of his money... all $46 million....

Suddenly, he is sooo much hotter. :rofling:

jeanius80
07-24-2007, 03:08 AM
nikki- i like that vesper colorway... is it the color or the yarn you dont like?

KnitClickChick
07-24-2007, 06:36 AM
No Harry Potter here. I've never even so much as read the jacket on any of the books, never seen any of the movies. Sure do wish I was the one who invented him though!

Ronda
07-24-2007, 06:42 AM
Sure do wish I was the one who invented him though!

No kidding!!! Me, too!!

madametj
07-24-2007, 03:08 PM
I strongly dislike the Harry Potter books, I believe the Bible when it says that using divination, being an observer of times, an enchanter, a witch, a charmer, a consulter with familier spirits, a wizard or a necromancer, is an abomination to God.

plus, anything that teaches kids real spells and witchcraft can't be good.

Stiney
07-24-2007, 03:18 PM
I strongly dislike the Harry Potter books, I believe the Bible when it says that using divination, being an observer of times, an enchanter, a witch, a charmer, a consulter with familier spirits, a wizard or a necromancer, is an abomination to God.

plus, anything that teaches kids real spells and witchcraft can't be good.

You are entitled to your opinions, of course, but the book is fiction and not meant to be taken as truth. And the spells aren't real--they're mainly "Latin" versions of what the spell is supposed to do.

Even if I wasn't a fan of the books, at least they are getting kids to read--even if they never read anything for pleasure again, they've been enriched at least this one time.

iza
07-24-2007, 03:59 PM
You might not realize it Joy, but there might very well be Wiccans on this site! I saw a few people with pentagrams as their avatars. Of course you are entitled to your opinions, but by saying witches are an abomination to God, you must realize you can offend people in their religious beliefs.

And yes, Harry Potter is indeed a fiction. Walt Disney made a fortune with stories about fairies, witches and wizards, let's not forget that! :teehee:

Knitlee
07-24-2007, 05:01 PM
I believe the books promote loyalty, bravery, friendship, love and integrity; not witchcraft. I have read all the books and the themes Rowling pursues are values all families try to instill in their children. The fantasy genre is just a vehicle to bring those messages to young readers.

Jan in CA
07-24-2007, 05:07 PM
I strongly dislike the Harry Potter books, I believe the Bible when it says that using divination, being an observer of times, an enchanter, a witch, a charmer, a consulter with familier spirits, a wizard or a necromancer, is an abomination to God.

plus, anything that teaches kids real spells and witchcraft can't be good.

You are entitled to your opinion, but...
:noway: People can't cast real spells, ride brooms or anything else in the story. It's a story of good vs evil. The kids stand up for what they believe and fight evil in a purely fictional way. Love has saved Harry more than once. ...Yes, there are bad guys and bullies, but you can see them anywhere in real life. I don't know.. I just find the whole thing sad. If you truly don't like the books that's fine, but to bring religion into it is just silly IMO. I think I'm pretty well read, but I haven't ever seen anything that says there has been an increase in witches and wizards running around casting "spells" or that it has decreases church membership. I guess you can't see The Wizard of Oz or Disney movies either then? :shrug:

'Nuff said from me..

PaperGirl
07-24-2007, 05:07 PM
You might not realize it Joy, but there might very well be Wiccans on this site! I saw a few people with pentagrams as their avatars. Of course you are entitled to your opinions, but by saying witches are an abomination to God, you must realize you can offend people in their religious beliefs.

And yes, Harry Potter is indeed a fiction. Walt Disney made a fortune with stories about fairies, witches and wizards, let's not forget that! :teehee:


By saying that Harry Potter promotes witchcraft, you pretty much should say that Lord of the Flies promotes cannibalism.

I am Pagan, and I truly enjoy Harry Potter. I also liked the Left Behind series as well. :shrug:

But they are all just books. Thats it.

My daughter and I LOVE reading the Potter books together, and me and my mother liked reading the LB.

Yarnlady
07-24-2007, 09:21 PM
plus, anything that teaches kids real spells and witchcraft can't be good.There are no real spells in the books. There are what are referred to as curses and jinxes and charms, but no spells are written in the books.

I know spells. There are none in there. There isn't any witchcraft in them either. Just ficitional people that are called witches and wizards.

I would think if there were real spells and real witchcraft in the books there would be a lot more unexplained "things" happening in the world in the last, what almost 9 years than there have been.

misstialouise
07-24-2007, 09:39 PM
Pagan here too.

HP is nothing about 'witchcraft'. I didn't see one full moon ritual, no salt circles or anything... hehe

To me, it was about feeling like an outsider, only to find friends in a place you didn't think existed. Then having those friends, true friends, stick with you through everything.

Belphoebe
07-24-2007, 10:06 PM
You might not realize it Joy, but there might very well be Wiccans on this site! I saw a few people with pentagrams as their avatars. Of course you are entitled to your opinions, but by saying witches are an abomination to God, you must realize you can offend people in their religious beliefs.

And yes, Harry Potter is indeed a fiction. Walt Disney made a fortune with stories about fairies, witches and wizards, let's not forget that! :teehee:

I think they are actually pentacles...which are completely different than pentagrams.

Sorry...felt the need to clarify.

Yarnlady
07-25-2007, 09:57 AM
I think they are actually pentacles...which are completely different than pentagrams. Correct. A pentagram is a five pointed star :star: and a pentacle is a five pointed star with a circle around it. <---look to the left

And there were none of those in the books, either! :lol:

iza
07-25-2007, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Yarnlady! :oops:

I wouldn't call them "completely different" though... since they both involve a 5 pointed star, no? :teehee: Could you then say a pentacle is formed of a pentagram and a circle? :??

Now this discussion made me want to read more about it. And yes for sure when I read the first book I didn't see anything that resembles the very little I know about Paganism... so I don't understand where that "fear" comes from. :shrug: I think a lot of people have very wrong ideas of what Paganism is, unfortunately.

Kaydee
07-25-2007, 10:52 AM
I went to a Catholic college and for one of my theology classes I wrote a paper on an article I read in a Catholic publication that talked about how HP was a bad thing. Iím an HP fan so I wrote against the article which said it promoted witchcraft; I basically used many of the reasons that you all said. I donít think HP is making kids believe in witchcraft, Iím sure most of the kids and adults reading it can decipher the difference between real life and make believe if they are intelligent enough to read the books. My professor didnít particularly like my position in the paper and commented that Harry who is supposed to be our hero in the book breaks lots of rules and gets in trouble a lot, what kind of role model is that? Well sure Harry breaks a few rules but seriously I think its alright to break a rule now and then when youíre trying to save lives from evil.:shrug:

PaperGirl
07-25-2007, 12:07 PM
I know this story is a bit past...but I thought that it was an interesting thing to share with y'all.

I used to live here, and Ive been to this university.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2007/jul/10/hsu-to-show-new-potter-film-free---and-early/

As for the possibility that a movie about sorcery might not be considered appropriate for a Baptist university, Coffield called the film a ''good, moral movie about the battle of good versus evil that illustrates the benefit and imperative of being on the good side.


Just something to think about. :hug:

Yarnlady
07-25-2007, 12:13 PM
My professor didnít particularly like my position in the paper and commented that Harry who is supposed to be our hero in the book breaks lots of rules and gets in trouble a lot, what kind of role model is that? I had 14 years of Catholic education. And I think, if I remember correctly that a role model that breaks rules and gets in trouble kind of resembles Jesus.... Neither the Romans or the Jewish elders had much of a good opinion of him.

stitchwitch
07-25-2007, 12:16 PM
I wonder how many people got the books that had multiple pages missing? That would be a bummer. :verysad:

Stiney
07-25-2007, 01:01 PM
But worth lots of money.

I used to have a copy of Eldest that had the mistake in it, but I tried reading Eragon and when "UGH what did a 15 year old write this?" (Yes, in fact, a 15 year old did write it. :teehee: ) and threw it out.

Kaydee
07-25-2007, 01:02 PM
I had 14 years of Catholic education. And I think, if I remember correctly that a role model that breaks rules and gets in trouble kind of resembles Jesus.... Neither the Romans or the Jewish elders had much of a good opinion of him.


Very true, good point.

madametj
07-25-2007, 05:17 PM
You might not realize it Joy, but there might very well be Wiccans on this site! I saw a few people with pentagrams as their avatars. Of course you are entitled to your opinions, but by saying witches are an abomination to God, you must realize you can offend people in their religious beliefs.

I didn't say it, the Bible did. its taken from Deuteronomy 18: 10-12.

You're not going to believe me when I say this, but, yes, witches are real. not the kind like on cartoons with flying brooms and things like that, but there are people who do practice sorcery, and try to tap into supernatural power, when they have absolutely no idea what they're getting into?

If I have the right to express my opinion, then why do I suddenly feel so attacked, and why is everyone all at once writing off what I have to say.

Rowling, said herself that there are real spells in the books. And are you honestly trying to tell me that HP doens't promote witchcraft.

And yes, I know about wiccans, and if wicca and witchcraft are religions, then why do they allow it in public libraries and schools, when they give us so much grief about Christianity?

Think about that.

Jan in CA
07-25-2007, 05:23 PM
I apologize, Joy. You DO have a right to your opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree. :hug::hug::hug::hug:

Braden
07-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Sorry, I'm a big HP fan. I have had no problems reading the books. I like the books more than the movies, which, I know, is bizarre.

madametj
07-25-2007, 05:29 PM
I apologize, Joy. You DO have a right to your opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree. :hug::hug::hug::hug:

thanx so much, Jan:hug:

Friskums
07-25-2007, 05:36 PM
I didn't say it, the Bible did. its taken from Deuteronomy 18: 10-12.

You're not going to believe me when I say this, but, yes, witches are real. not the kind like on cartoons with flying brooms and things like that, but there are people who do practice sorcery, and try to tap into supernatural power, when they have absolutely no idea what they're getting into.

If I have the right to express my opinion, then why do I suddenly feel so attacked, and why is everyone all at once writing off what I have to say.

Rowling, said herself that there are real spells in the books. And are you honestly trying to tell me that HP doens't promote witchcraft.

And yes, I know about wiccans, and if wicca and witchcraft are religions, then why do they allow it in public libraries and schools, when they give us so much grief about Christianity?

Think about that.
Why would we not believe you when there are people here who are happy to admit they are witches/wiccans/pagans. I happen to be one of them.

You may have the right to express your opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to do so in a hurtful manner. I was very much offended and upset when I read your comment.



I haven't read any of the Harry Potter books. I think I saw one or two movies because my friend was into them and I went with her.
I guess I'm rather neutral about it. I'm certainly not going to bash anyone who likes them, but I won't get all worked up about them either. :shrug:
Reading is good. :thumbsup:

madametj
07-25-2007, 05:45 PM
Why would we not believe you when there are people here who are happy to admit they are witches/wiccans/pagans. I happen to be one of them.

You may have the right to express your opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to do so in a hurtful manner. I was very much offended and upset when I read your comment.



I haven't read any of the Harry Potter books. I think I saw one or two movies because my friend was into them and I went with her.
I guess I'm rather neutral about it. I'm certainly not going to bash anyone who likes them, but I won't get all worked up about them either. :shrug:
Reading is good. :thumbsup:


Believe me, I do not intend to be hurtful, and I'm not bashing anyone either. I'm proud to be a Christian and that I believe what I believe.

And reading is good, but you still have to watch what you read, just like when you do everything else.

Friskums
07-25-2007, 05:54 PM
Again, that's a matter of opinion. And like Jan said, we will have to agree to disagree.


Oh, Conti - I usually always prefer the book to the movie.

iza
07-25-2007, 06:15 PM
I found your tone was very harsh to Pagans, Joy. Nobody attacks your opinion, but more the way you said it. I don't think it's right on this forum to hurt people in their beliefs, race, origins, etc. This is exactly what I feared with an off-topic forum.

Don't you think there was a different way of saying what you wanted to say? Here's a suggestion: As a Christian, I do not believe this book is appropriate for me, as it contains real spells, according to Rowlings herself. I think it's way milder and it says what you wanted to say, no?

Oh and I do know witches exist, I'm not Pagan but I happen to know one or two. :teehee:

madametj
07-25-2007, 06:18 PM
I found your tone was very harsh to Pagans, Joy. Nobody attacks your opinion, but more the way you said it. I don't think it's right on this forum to hurt people in their beliefs, race, origins, etc. This is exactly what I feared with an off-topic forum.

Don't you think there was a different way of saying what you wanted to say? Here's a suggestion: As a Christian, I do not believe this book is appropriate for me, as it contains real spells, according to Rowlings herself. I think it's way milder and it says what you wanted to say, no?

Oh and I do know witches exist, I'm not Pagan but I happen to know one or two. :teehee:


I'm sorry I didn't say it your way iza, but its comments like yours that make me wonder if I'm really welcome on this forum anymore.

BillSpace
07-25-2007, 06:20 PM
To get back to the original question: sick of HP? Not really, because he's not a part of my life. I read the first book, and I found it pleasant but boring. The fight between Good and Evil is such an adolescent concept (one that our White House gladly embraces); what's interesting is the warring impulses within ourselves. I thought the book was very weak on that -- Harry seemed to have no impulse except toward what's Good and True. He might be occasionally wrong, but he never has to face up to a piece of himself that he might not admire. (If that happens later in the series, I stand corrected.)

I did think one aspect of the original book intriguing. Harry's situation seems to mirror the young homosexual's: the feeling that you are raised by people to whom you don't really belong; the discovery of an entire world not imagined by the family you grew up with; finding a place where you can be who you are and it is not only tolerated, it's celebrated.

Now that I've written it, I suppose that's the universal experience of adolescence, not just gay youth. So I think Ms. Rowling got that right, and if she continued that exploration throughout the series, maybe she would allow the Durstleys some dignity in the end.

Friskums
07-25-2007, 06:22 PM
Of course everyone is welcome here.

However, we do need to keep in mind that there is probably at least one of every gender, race, religion, faith, etc. And in doing so, sometimes it may be better to tone down our comments and try our best to keep them free of hurtful things. I know there's been more than once where I've opted to just not say anything because 1)it wouldn't have contributed to the conversation or 2)I couldn't think of a non-offensive way to put it.

LibraryLady
07-25-2007, 06:45 PM
... I read the first book, and I found it pleasant but boring...
...(If that happens later in the series, I stand corrected.)...

Please try it again! JK Rowling has grown in her ability to write as she gets further into the series. There are more nuances developed in ALL the characters - good vs evil, what friendship means, the different ways to learn, how people are different not better/worse from each other, death and dying...

I'm currently rereading them all before I read the 7th, and I can see very clearly her growth as an author.

LL

misstialouise
07-25-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm sorry I didn't say it your way iza, but its comments like yours that make me wonder if I'm really welcome on this forum anymore.

There's nothing wrong with being fervent in your beleifs hon.. and of course you're welcome here... why wouldn't you be? This is one little thread on a very big forum, and your input in this forum is important :D

I have a lot of very pious Christian friends, some who love HP, because they take it at face value as a fictional piece of work (and The Da Vinci Code, for that matter), and some who are indifferent, and some who just think it's stupid...

Whatever floats your boat, I say.. :D I love HP, it got me reading again, and when my son is old enough, I'll start reading them to/with him. Just like the Narnia Chronicles, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

:D

Yarnlady
07-25-2007, 07:12 PM
I didn't say it, the Bible did. its taken from Deuteronomy 18: 10-12.And for those of us that don't take the Christian Bible as the only and/or primary spiritual source document, quoting it is the same as quoting any other book.
You're not going to believe me when I say this, but, yes, witches are real. I do more than believe you, dearie, I am one. :teehee:
If I have the right to express my opinion, then why do I suddenly feel so attacked, and why is everyone all at once writing off what I have to say.You certainly do have that right. I felt extremely attacked when you expressed your opinion, so I know exactly how you felt. I don't think you or I should feel that way either in a rather calm discussion about likes and dislikes.
Rowling, said herself that there are real spells in the books. And are you honestly trying to tell me that HP doens't promote witchcraft.Like a lot of muggles, JK is incorrect. There are no spells in the books. As I previously said, I know spells, and there ain't any in those books. And yes, I am honestly telling you the books don't promote witchcraft. And above and beyond all that....it's a fantasy world where the characters can do all kinds of things you or I can't do. It's fiction. A story, not a gospel. (Although it does promote much of what the Christian gospels promote: God is love and s/he who abides in love abides in God and God in him/her. What Harry and his friends learn is that love is the most powerful energy in the world. Isn't that what Jesus came to tell us?)

:star: Tell you what, you read them and we'll discuss what you feel are quotations that promote witchcraft. If after I explain the difference between what is witchcraft and what is portrayed in the books, you still feel it does, at least you'll have your own personal knowledge of what's in the books and not what someone else has told you or you've read in a second hand source document.
And yes, I know about wiccans, and if wicca and witchcraft are religions, then why do they allow it in public libraries and schools, when they give us so much grief about Christianity?Think about that.There are hundreds, nay, thousands of books of, about, and intrinsic to Christianity in the public libraries. By their own admit, librarians do not ban any books from libraries. If you go here, http://www.publiclibraries.com/ you can find hundreds of public libraries all over the United States and browse their catalogs. You will not find any public libraries that ban any book based on religion or any other criteria. You can request any book be purchased by your local library. It will be put on the list and eventually purchased.

Government buildings, by the separation of church and state, do not promote any religion, Christian or otherwise. Wiccans cannot put up a religious display at our High Holidays any more than the Christians can display on their holidays.

If it is "allowed" in schools as part of the curriculum, it would only be in a comparative religion class in which all world religions would be given equal time. If you mean "allowed" in that members can wear jewelry with pagan symbols, why should they not if others are allowed to wear yin and yang, crosses, crucifixes and the Star of David?

I do respect your right to your beliefs and opinions. I truly do. And I respect your courage in stating them. However in an international, inter-faith, inter-political arena such as this board, how anyone states his/her beliefs should not be derogatory to another's beliefs.

jeanius80
07-25-2007, 07:47 PM
i dont agree or disagree with either of you.
i am glad however, that Yarnlady has taken the time to be thoughtful in her approach. it seems lately that people aare typing without taking the time to get thier POV across without being harsh/rude/dismissive.
I know this is a very public forum, but i think that as a whole, we all seem to do take the time to be kind and helpful. i think it was mulene(?) who posted earlier in this thread about not saying anything when she felt her thoughts might offend. i do the same. i think it fits with the golden rule. if i knit some crappy, horrendous socks, and was super proud, i would be hurt if someone said "are you blind? those are f.ugly!" when they could have said, "wow. those are interesting. i'm not sure i would have made orange fun fur socks with bobbles and ruffles."
i'd rather my post slip into post oblivion without any comments. :)

Kaydee
07-25-2007, 09:48 PM
i it seems lately that people aare typing without taking the time to get thier POV across without being harsh/rude/dismissive.
I know this is a very public forum, but i think that as a whole, we all seem to do take the time to be kind and helpful. i think it was mulene(?) who posted earlier in this thread about not saying anything when she felt her thoughts might offend. i do the same. i think it fits with the golden rule. if i knit some crappy, horrendous socks, and was super proud, i would be hurt if someone said "are you blind? those are f.ugly!" when they could have said, "wow. those are interesting. i'm not sure i would have made orange fun fur socks with bobbles and ruffles."
i'd rather my post slip into post oblivion without any comments. :)

I completly agree with you Jeanius, I feel like I've seen a few threads lately where people have felt hurt by comments made. I know no one means to make someone feel bad with their comments but sometimes we type and don't think about it. It can be hard to judge someone's tone in writing so sometimes what we mean to be a harmless comment can come across as harsh to someone else. I don't think anyone here would deliberately (sp?) try to hurt someone with a comment but maybe we should all just think a bit before we post a comment. :hug:

zip
07-28-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm sorry, I am a HP fan.

I'm sorry I believe in getting kids to read instead of playing violent games.

I'm sorry that my 20+ year old students can't read past a 6th grade level because they didn't have HP in time and had high school teachers that let them slip through.

I'm sorry that all local newspapers are written at a 5th grade level.

I'm sorry that each HP book is written at the appropriate age reading level.

I'm sorry that your husband can't seem to remember that his own students when tested can't read past 5th grade level.

I'm sorry that the American versions of the books had to be dumbed down because we can't read.

I'm sorry that even though HP may be a fad, at least it is an educational fad instead of Grand Theft Auto or any of the other cop killing, hooker screwing and beating games out there.

:?? Did you even read my post before you hit the quote button? I didn't criticize any children for lapping up HP; rather, I understand the way they feel as the local public library with all its wonders was my absolute favorite place as a child. I wanted to read every single book housed within it, and was certain that I'd be able to do so before I left for college. And I still think I could've if I'd've have more frequent access to it. I raised two stepchildren, and instilled a love of reading in both of them.

Instead, I was referring to the adults who eagerly await, pounce upon, and lose themselves reading a set of books that are geared toward and written for adolescents. It isn't as if I'm posting spoilers in the "I love HP" thread.

On the other hand, if it was a new book of Shel Silverstein poetry, I'd be first in line...

Belphoebe
07-28-2007, 09:02 PM
I'm a middle school teacher and I love reading teen novels. I feel that is more than part of my job, it is something to enjoy. Being able to relate to people of all ages is priceless. I read children's books to my three year old daughter, read teen novels with my students and as an escape for myself, I read biographies and non-fiction to keep on track with world events, and I even read college textbooks to learn. My point? ANY reading is good reading. Period.

Susan P.
07-28-2007, 11:21 PM
I spoke up the other day about having a pov responded to in a way I partially objected to so, maybe it's a liberty to comment on THIS thread now, however...sometimes not having been overly involved helps.

When I was a teacher, in my last few years in primary schools, I experienced the hardest and toughest period in terms of parental censorship. I could not have read the Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. I could not read or have in the room even, simple 'bat, cat and witches hat' books. I could not discuss Christmas unless some children were released. I could not discuss Darwin's theory unless some children were released. I could not refer to the Bible as a work of literature and so on.

Then we had the battle of all these children being left out in the cold so often and not receiving a proper education for the 20min they were absent from the room..so..we just had to stop referring to almost everything anyone objected to. Christmas was the exception as there were always Christmas plays.

From the view of individual religions, HP's books are not ok. It isn't even a matter of whether spells are real or not, it's the make believe entering the mention of this realm that's objectionable. There's really no point in arguing whether the person is right or not as to whether spells are being cast etc; that's probably too fine line an issue. Maybe it's easily to respect the person feels that way and to ask an exploratory question.

I think half the time these threads break down into dispute is that some folks don't see different opinions as a way to learn more about the way others may see an issue. Celebrate the difference rather than trying to argue why it's wrong..??

My mother in her 70's reads HP and goes to the movies. It's not for me but I know it means a lot for some. Would I love to see adults branch out into books that aren't that hard to read but have different content and content about real world matters? Sure I would. However as some have said, if people are reading they are reading. Not all will move on from this genre but some perhaps will. The good vs evil issue can be found in many a fine book away from this fantasy realm and I'd encourage people to seek that out. Even look for books translated into film and make a pairing of those something done every six months. Of Mice and Men by Steinbeck is not a hard read as such and the John Malcovich version is the best there is in my opinion. However, its hits home and is not relaxable enjoyment as HP books may be for some.

Horses for courses - do they say that in the US? :)

No-one..or rarely..do people change their mind because someone else tells them their thinking is wrong or faulty. However, you can lead people to consider their points of view by welcoming their opinion and asking about it.

Just a thought.

zip
08-01-2007, 02:20 PM
http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/images/getfuzzy21047500070730.gif

:rofl:

madametj
08-01-2007, 08:14 PM
ANY reading is good reading. Period.

:shock:that is an extremely general statement

Yarnlady
08-01-2007, 08:33 PM
ANY reading is good reading. Period.My kids were homeschooled, and I let them read anything they wanted. Of course my girls headed right for the romance novels. :shrug: The adult ones... My ED's favorite was one called The Pirate and the Pagan. I knew they didn't understand most of what they read, and in later years they confirmed it. They kinda skipped over the "adult" sections to get back to the story! :teehee: I was just happy they were reading.

My philosophy from that came from the book/movie To Sir, With Love. Mr. Braithewait, to get the kids reading brought in adult novels. Once they kids found there were funner things to read than text books, the whole class started reading. :lol:

Any reading is good reading! :star: :star: :star: :star: :star:

LibraryLady
08-01-2007, 10:25 PM
:shock:that is an extremely general statement

In this day and age when so few folk DO read, yes, it is a general statement, but a good one nonetheless.

There is so much to read out there in the world and we live in a country that allows the Freedom of the Press. It is everyone's choice what they read, and parent's choice what their children read and yet SO FEW READ!!!!

If this one set of books leads people, adult or children into the reading world, so much the better. Many times people have related to me, that pivotal book that got them reading, and they've moved much further beyond that initial book in the scope of their bibliomania.

Reading is a good thing and too many people view it as a chore and something to dread because they were not brought up in an environment that encouraged reading.

I could go on and on about this... I know there are studies showing there is no perceived increase in the number of readers in the US, but I choose to believe that not all studies are right or probably formulated.

I understand, madametj, that you do not like/approve of these books. Isn't this a great country where we have a freedom of choice in what we read and also in the approval/disapproval of that same choice? I admire you for sticking to your convictions in the face of the majority on this board, who are also mostly older than you. I think it's a good thing you are willing to speak up. The discourse on this thread has been lively and interesting.

Thank you for participating. :) I mean this most sincerely.

LL

Belphoebe
08-01-2007, 10:39 PM
:shock:that is an extremely general statement

Considering I've had to teach kids with IQ's lower than 60, ANY reading by them is GOOD reading. When I see kids with average IQ's who don't read a lick, it sort of gets my goat.

zip
08-01-2007, 10:49 PM
I simply don't believe that it's true that "so few read." That's not been my experience in real life. Almost everyone that I know, and almost everyone that I encounter, reads.

Instead, what I find troubling is that so many parents believe that it's their job to ensure that their kids are constantly entertained. A child who says "I'm bored" doesn't need someone to find something for him or her to do; rather that child need to find something on his or her own that is appealing. As long as parents cater to their children, children will demand instant gratification and will fail to discover what truly means something to themselves.

Unless, of course, that child's IQ falls under 60, as in Belphoebe's case. Some children must be catered to. Others... ahem... not so much.

Duckling326
08-01-2007, 10:57 PM
...........thread jack....from a Harry Potter reader...

Not everyone reads Harry Potter big whoop!

Why are the Harry Potter readers coming in here and jacking this thread? It's not like the posters from this thread are jumping into the Harry Potter thread and jacking that.

LibraryLady
08-01-2007, 11:08 PM
I simply don't believe that it's true that "so few read." That's not been my experience in real life. Almost everyone that I know, and almost everyone that I encounter, reads.

This is probably true in your social atmosphere, but if you ask any of the teachers on here, it's more true than not that kids don't read and most especially adults don't read.

LL

kellyh57
08-02-2007, 12:57 AM
...........thread jack....from a Harry Potter reader...

Not everyone reads Harry Potter big whoop!

Why are the Harry Potter readers coming in here and jacking this thread? It's not like the posters from this thread are jumping into the Harry Potter thread and jacking that.

No freaking kidding! Like we're all horrible people because we don't read the stupid books or waste our money on the movies and whatnot. Why do the fans think they need to convince us that it's such a wonderful story. Ugh. To each his own!

Kelly

Kelly

Yarnlady
08-02-2007, 09:51 AM
I simply don't believe that it's true that "so few read." That's not been my experience in real life. I'd have to agree.... :waving: Go down to the local bookstore and see how many people hang out there in the evenings drinking coffee and reading, discussing books, etc. :star:

I know the small bookstores are going out of business, but the big chains would be going out of business, too, if there weren't people buying books. One assumes if they are being bought they are being read, too. :teehee:

Kaydee
08-02-2007, 12:57 PM
No freaking kidding! Like we're all horrible people because we don't read the stupid books or waste our money on the movies and whatnot. Why do the fans think they need to convince us that it's such a wonderful story. Ugh. To each his own!

Kelly

Kelly

I sure no one thinks that youíre ďhorrible peopleĒ for not reading the books. I just personally find it offensive when someone claims that Iím childish because Iíve read and enjoyed the books. If I want to read them, thatís my business and if you donít thatís yours. If anyone has especially read this last book youíll find that itís not really catering towards children and some of the (for lack of a better word) ďgrownupĒ situations that the characters go through in the book. I understand the whole thing about being sick of all the crazy hype thatís surrounded by the books and movies and thatís totally fine with me if you canít stand that. Just donít go around criticizing those of us who read the books, to me thatís what really started to bother me about this thread. I mean I canít stand the Lord of the Rings books/movies but I wouldnít bash those who like them and say they live in a fantasy world or something because they like that type of book.

zazzu
08-02-2007, 01:09 PM
I mean I canít stand the Lord of the Rings books/movies but I wouldnít bash those who like them and say they live in a fantasy world or something because they like that type of book.Agreed. I don't like LOTR or Harry Potter but it doesn't bother me in the least that others do. Why should I even care, really?

Another reason I wouldn't bash HP fans is that I wouldn't like having one of my interests, like knitting, openly criticized in this OT forum.

I understand that the HP hype is a bit intense. It's probably better for our stress levels to ignore it rather than make it a toxic force in our lives.

Just my take on it. :)

Rhea
08-02-2007, 06:42 PM
Hmm...

I love Harry Potter ebcause I was practically raised on it. The great thing is that it has grown with me. The first book was easy to read, and I was in elementary school so that was a good thing. But as I got older the plot got more involved and the reading level got higher.

It isn't fair to base the reading level of a series based on the first book or two.


I can see that all the people here who dont like harry potter, openly admit to having never read, or only read the first book.

And...that kind of speaks for itself.

Susan P.
08-02-2007, 08:42 PM
The drinking of coffee in the bookstore phenomenon is something we don't have here at all in the main :)

I was thinking later, there ARE some books I believe wouldn't fall into the category of "any reading is good reading". I believe when that comment was said the person was thinking of freely available books in your average bookstore and on that basis I agree.

However, there are some hateful book materials out there - books savaging a racial group or a culture, or describing terrible sexual acts and practice/beliefs etc - books that I truly believe the vast majority of us would reject.

It's grey area material that is the most problematic and if a book is, as I suggested, freely available in your large bookstores and it not adult labeled by a censor board or similar, I think you need to accept some will like, some will disagree and that is the way almost all issues run in life. I don't read this genre yet the one group of books I do read a lot of people would as equally dislike *shrug*

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to support it. I'm not sure you're entitled to label others wrong, or wanting on a personal level, or there's sense in getting angry/frustrated, because others hold a different opinion.

Yarnlady
08-03-2007, 09:25 AM
The drinking of coffee in the bookstore phenomenon is something we don't have here at all in the main :)
:waving:Too bad...it's really a wonderful thing to grab a stack of books (knitting) and/or magazines and sit down to browse through them with a cuppa. :star:
I was thinking later, there ARE some books I believe wouldn't fall into the category of "any reading is good reading"....However, there are some hateful book materials out there - books savaging a racial group or a culture, or describing terrible sexual acts and practice/beliefs etc - books that I truly believe the vast majority of us would reject.
Yes, there are. But again, beauty and hateful are in the eyes of the beholder. As has been stated earlier, in some eyes the HP books would fall in that category, as has Huckleberry Finn, Of Mice and Men, In the Night Kitchen, To Kill a Mockingbird, Brave New World, and in the year 2000 over 600 more. Simply because the vast majority would reject, doesn't not mean the minority shouldn't read them.

Good reading can mean entertainment and education. Reading a or some of the books the vast majority would reject, gives an individual the information as to whether or not their own views fall in with the vast majority or not. Because a book may be poorly written, or have a story line one doesn't approve of doesn't mean it's bad reading, it just means one has an opinion about it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to support it. I'm not sure you're entitled to label others wrong, or wanting on a personal level, or there's sense in getting angry/frustrated, because others hold a different opinion.
Very true. I think the upset here was not that there were diferences of opinions it is how the opinions were expressed and the right/wrong good/bad scenario was utilized. At least that's why I became vocal.

Susan P.
08-03-2007, 10:15 PM
Yarnlady.. Absolutely 'eyes of beholder'. I sometimes pick up a book that I've had for decades and read it again and get to a word or phrase and wince and think, gosh, one would never say this now. The fact that Noddy books are banned in places and so on is also interesting. Those sort of books I would not stop my own children from reading - I would use them to explore and explain changes in perception and so on.

When I spoke of 'hateful' to be honest, in my mind I was thinking say of KKK developed pamphlets and books; that sort of item. Of course one accepts that a number of people support such works and, at a level, I don't reject them out of hand. I think tho that their intent is direct and I would not so readily advocate people reading them without having the ability to think critically. I apologise if I've offended any person here who belongs to this organisation. And yes, there are individual religious groups who produce materials that are also very confined and very judgmental about race and culture.

Your point about perception was well made :)
I agree the way something is expressed can be important however at times I've openly said I am just expressing an opinion and I know others will feel differently - and still some have had a problem with what I've said. More recently, Jan and I talked after I posted in a thread and I think we both agreed that when you post a topic, a little of yourself goes into it. You can feel disappointed and sometimes a little hurt if someone comes it with a markedly different view or expression than what you hoped for. This then leads me to re-examine my attitude when I post a topic - that I should indeed be ready to accept different voices and views. I've also had to more carefully look at my phrasing. I know we're both English speaking countries but Aussie's do tend to express differently than many Americans and sometimes you need to adjust a little. There are also people new to communities here and various age groups present. Sometimes learning to express a sentiment with a moderate tone is indeed, a learning exercise and that's why I encourage the phrase "In my opinion" rather than throwing out a blanket statement of 'fact' when it isn't a fact as such.

Tolerance can be as important a quality I think at times. Benefit of the doubt?

I think btw people here would baulk at combining coffee and books because of spillage and fear of damage :-) I think if people had bought the book and then could enter a cafe section post purchase that would be fine :) There is, also, certain problematics with children in these stores. If people sit and have a coffee and have 2/3 kids those kids can start to become a nuisance in an area where people want to be able to absorb into a book. It sounds like there's a culture there tho that responds well to the situation - sort of avant garde?

Susan P.
08-03-2007, 10:17 PM
When I said "you need to adjust a little" I meant myself as poster.

But maybe it is two sided also :) Talk of cake in another thread now has me hungry.

debinoz
08-03-2007, 11:37 PM
I agree that people should read the genre of books they like and enjoy. Just because I don't care for that type of book doesn't mean that I'm going to go around bashing people who do. I *might* get upset if we started talking trash on mysteries though. The only exception I have to this thread is the earlier post that stated Americans were dumb and illiterate. I've searched all over the internet for information that the HP books were "dumbed down" for us in the US and the closest I've come is an entry that talks about it being translated into different languages.... one being American English.

Susan P.
08-03-2007, 11:45 PM
I never saw a post that said that I must admit.

I'm often surprised to know movies have title changes sometimes between countries. Some Aussie movies have had title changes when shown there for example.

IF a book was changed it would be a publisher decision based upon advice they received from their US arm by the way. You could always write to the US publisher and ask some questions as to whether the book was changed or not for the US market and if so, why.

Yarnlady
08-04-2007, 09:02 AM
...that the HP books were "dumbed down" for us in the US and the closest I've come is an entry that talks about it being translated into different languages.... one being American English.That may have been part of one of my statements, because I feel the books were dumbed down. Let me explain. What was changed in Socercer's Stone was a change from English to American. Garbage cans in stead of bins, sneakers instead of trainers, sweaters instead of jumpers. I feel when something like this is done, it's insulting, implying that American's can't figure out that other cultures call these things by different names and that we can't figure out how to translate them.

Publishers deny people--in this case, at that time, they thought mostly kids--a chance to expand their vocabulary and knowledge base. By the time the third book came around, I think very little was changed. They realized that indeed, we could figure it out, that so many people of so many ages were talking about the books we'd figure out those strange words! :teehee:

I have a ton more to say on this topic, but I have to go Hoover my rug! :lol:

Susan P.
08-04-2007, 09:13 AM
Interesting Yarnlady. Another way of looking at those changes is cultural sensitivity and remembering that the largest target demographic for the books is the youth market. It's interesting how the publishers MAY have felt there were responding to cultural language issues in an appropriate way, yet, a reader like yourself is insulted.

I do tend to think online society has created a lot of cross understanding of terms. Then again, we love Sesame Street here but when it comes to the alphabet many parents have to retrain the 'zee' for 'zed' back to 'zed' as we would say it.

Sometimes language problematics do arise. You guys say dumpster there and we have never traditionally used the word but because of media and tv sometimes I do hear individuals say that now from time to time, but the vast majority would say 'trade waste bin'. Would people there automatically know what that meant if the context was not clear? Perhaps not a great example because I think the wording in this phrase is reasonably understandable, however, again, I think sometimes changes are well meant but that consumers should inform the publishers if they disagree.

Susan P.
08-04-2007, 09:19 AM
Btw.. you did recognise the targeting of the youth market yourself in your post Yarnlady. My response didn't account for that.

As I said earlier however, such advice generally would come from the US arm of the company and yes, I think such folks are realising, more and more, that online connectivity etc means we all often do know what is being said. However, I didn't know chiggers here the other day even though I could quite quickly understand it was a biting insect of some type. Tho.. it may have been a nickname for a truckstop groupie who was biting Mason.
:fingerwag: :happydance:

Yarnlady
08-04-2007, 10:25 AM
but the vast majority would say 'trade waste bin'. Would people there automatically know what that meant if the context was not clear? It's hard to tell what anyone would be able to understand from unclear context. And what would be clear and unclear would differ from person to person. However, if one's vocabulary isn't challenged, how does one expand it? And why do they automatically need to know what is meant? Why shouldn't the book challenge the reader?

Say a kid (or adult) is reading: I cannot tell what sentiment haunted the quite solitary churchyard, with
its inscribed headstone; its gate, its two trees, its low horizon, girdled by a broken wall, and its newly-risen crescent, attesting the hour of eventide.

There are lots of words that someone may not understand. Hopefully, the individual will either ask a teacher, parent/adult, or a dictionary what the word is and what it means. Which can at the least enhance the vocabulary of the reader and at most can facilitate a conversation about the passage/story/book/author.

I just dislike the publisher/author assuming I am not intelligent enough or motivated enough to learn.

Stiney
08-04-2007, 01:10 PM
I think btw people here would baulk at combining coffee and books because of spillage and fear of damage :-) I think if people had bought the book and then could enter a cafe section post purchase that would be fine :) There is, also, certain problematics with children in these stores. If people sit and have a coffee and have 2/3 kids those kids can start to become a nuisance in an area where people want to be able to absorb into a book. It sounds like there's a culture there tho that responds well to the situation - sort of avant garde?


Actually, not too much got damaged out because of the cafe when I worked at B&N. There were many irate booksellers, though.

Please, to all customers, remember: 1. Barnes & Noble is not a babysitter. You must keep your child with you at all times, not set them loose in the kid's section unsupervised. 2. I understand if you want to look through books before you buy them. But if you don't buy them, try and put them back where you found them, or at least hand them to a bookseller with an apology--"I'm sorry, I can't remember where I got these!"--rather than leave them wherever you found them. :grrr:

Yarnlady, many of the words that were changed (such as jumper to sweater) may not have been in American dictionaries. The change to Sorcerer's Stone was just ridiculous.

Sia
08-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Im not a witch , but I know a lot and they are all nice people, the spells they do in my opinion are justs tools to their subconsciense, and they never do spells to hurt anyone, not that I think that would work anyway(There not into worshipping the Devil, there into nature and living in peace

However look at how many people have died over Jesus

But I am a true believer in everyone having their own opinion

Susan P.
08-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Yarnlady.. I'm certainly not disputing you one iota however my point was really glass half empty/glass half full or how we choose to look at something that is done. Did they go out of their way to "dumb down" or were they *trying* to be "culturally sensitive"? Sometimes I try and give the benefit of the doubt even while, like you, wishing whatever the reasoning they hadn't done it. Again, consumers needs to inform companies they don't want this.

Stiney, It's been years since I was in an ultra huge bookstore because I've been living in a country town until more recently but there you would browse and just replace the book on the shelf where you got it. The ONLY exception for me was when the staff had SO tightly shoved books on that replacing one would have led me to probably bend the cover. In that case I often just left the book sideways on top of the others. Not best but better than damaging it.

I think once you invite people to sit and relax etc some of those courtesies may also relax :) I always make a point of congratulating parents now whose children really do know how to behave well in such a venue. Noisy, yelling children bumping into you and your legs and upsetting your coffee on the table.. no thanks!

Does anyone recall the sort of ad hoc (kinda) poetry movement in the 70's in a coffee club where people got up and recited poetry which was often very minimal, vague and 'groovy'? :) Beatnik man..yeah..wow..

Susan P.
08-04-2007, 07:07 PM
France just came to mind. The French have a bureau that seriously guards it's language and want to maintain the integrity of it. All sorts of advertisers have had problems there in having words accepted for use. I'm not making a call on this one way or another as such - indeed I respect the French rationale on it, however, here is a cultural example where words may need to be changed. I wonder how different the French translation is!?

debinoz
08-05-2007, 01:24 AM
Yarnlady: It wasn't your post that grabbed my attention.

Susan P: Sorry to go off opic, but you mentioned "zed" in your earlier post, which got me laughing because it reminded me of one of my favorite parts in the movie, "Shaun of the Dead."

As for changing some of the words to American English, I can see where that would help quite a few younger kids. I watch a lot of britcoms and uk shows, so I have no problems with the differences. However, I was watching an episode of "Keeping Up Appearances" the other day and Onslo was asking if there were any more "crisps." None of my 3 youngest knew what they were and I had to clarify it. I'd think that publishers would want to make books easier to read for the different cultures/countries. They might think that having to stop in the middle of a sentence or paragraph to look up a word would discourage readers.

Susan P.
08-05-2007, 02:01 AM
Debinoz.. Don't know that movie. MY son and I were talking on this topic whilst in the car today and he said none of his US friends have ever understood the word 'doona'. 'Down' tends to be used but in order to figure that out he had to spend ages explaining what a doona here was because its different than a quilt although more like an eiderdown.

But he had one friend talk about the difference in US states between the words 'soda' and 'pop'. Soda here is soda water specifically.

So, for as many examples as we can suggest people WOULD know or could easily find out, we'll have opposing examples. I would have thought a simple glossary would have resolved the issue.

debinoz
08-05-2007, 10:19 AM
Susan P: I had a thought last night about your earlier post on the French being so particular about the use of their language. I can see this as we all agree a word in one language may mean something else in another. The best example that comes to mind in the great Agatha Christie's, "And Then There Were None." The original title having a word that was racially degrading here in the states that I can't even write for fear that people would see it written here and flame me for having even written it! It was then changed to another and it suffered the same problem. I even wince when reading a few other of her stories ("Murder On The Orient Express" comes to mind) because of the same usage of the word. Personally, I love the differences in languages. It's like an adventure. I've always wanted to go to the UK and by reading and watching things on television, I can be temporarily transported there!

Susan P.
08-05-2007, 11:05 PM
debinoz.. I know the title you mean :)
The French attitude is more about maintaining integrity. We all tend here to now say "maccas" as if this is a normal word. Want maccas? (McDonalds) This is the issue the French have about language integrity and it has involved several fields of language usage - i.e. not only advertising but words on space and technology etc.

I laughed at a UK person I know of in the US who went to a NY pub (with British 'air' and menu) and he said the waitress was oh so careful not to say 'faggots' and kept saying "sausages" very precisely when he of course was used to the word faggots as a child.

I know a car manufacturer made a big mistake in putting up a billboard in a country because the car name in that country meant "doesn't go". In a second country it meant "big breasts". LOL

debinoz
08-06-2007, 01:04 AM
I bet the people at the pub would have went nuts if he'd ordered them that way. Just a question... is there a difference between faggots and bangors? I know they are both sausages, but is there a real distinction between the two?

I remember when my oldest was little and it was a fad to call each other a "fag".... I kept telling him he was too young to smoke. It took quite a while for him to figure it out.

Susan P.
08-06-2007, 02:02 AM
debinoz..now THAT is a dry sense of humour! :roflhard:

A faggot..sometimes with one g..is a traditional item..englis/welsh also I think..more like a meatball in a way but often made of pork or offcuts of meat and offal.

A banger is a sausage and in the sausage shape tho these days I try and be very very careful re what goes in them before I eat. The frankfurt and sausages etc made from pigs lips and so on..don't do a lot for me :) :ick: Sometimes you can buy pure beef here without preservatives but hard to get and I have never seen them in the city as yet. The chicken ones often taste too sweet for my liking.

Still, the old sausage sanger (sandwich) was a big part of growing up and sometimes I used to love. Tomato sauce and maybe a few onions and the bread wrapped around.

Susan P.
08-06-2007, 02:04 AM
Now debinoz..since we're meandering..is it true that most men in the US would NOT wear shorts in public? Now THAT if true would be a real difference between our cultures and between yours and the Brits in summer also I think.

Stiney
08-06-2007, 09:15 AM
I laughed at a UK person I know of in the US who went to a NY pub (with British 'air' and menu) and he said the waitress was oh so careful not to say 'faggots' and kept saying "sausages" very precisely when he of course was used to the word faggots as a child.

:hmm: Considering that I never heard of sausages being called anything besides sausages or bangers, the American waitress probably didn't know any better.

Now debinoz..since we're meandering..is it true that most men in the US would NOT wear shorts in public? Now THAT if true would be a real difference between our cultures and between yours and the Brits in summer also I think.

Um, that's not true at all. If anything, women are the ones who would be less likely to wear shorts in public.

Susan P.
08-06-2007, 10:08 AM
I was guessing, from what this bloke said, that fagots or faggots were written on the menu but the waitress was careful not to say it. This NY place has set up to mimic the atmosphere and food of an english pub so I guess they went with the names before thinking of the outcome..?? Not exactly sure :)

Ok..good to know re the shorts. A LOT of young women wear shorts here..even in winter with tights.

debinoz
08-06-2007, 12:56 PM
I agree with Stiney on the shorts issue. I wouldn't be caught dead in shorts, but DH wears them all the time. I think it has to do with the "model" mentality that is shoved down our throats. If you don't have the body of a super model.... cover up as much of it as possible. And believe me... I miss "model" size by long way!

Sia
08-06-2007, 06:17 PM
I think Harry Potters books are great for children, for one, its got millions of children into reading
And its good for children to have a bit a fanstsy in thier lifes

Playstation games are far worse

Even sitting down watching the news these days, is more disturbing

I dont think that it adverserly affects them

And any children that (maybe) are I think that would happen to them anyway

My sons love the books and are good kids, they are no different now have before the started reading them

Susan P.
08-06-2007, 06:24 PM
debinoz.. I wouldn't wear shorts either! The last time was in 19.... *blink* :) I did see a girl in a bank here the other day with denim shorts, fishnet stockings, small black boots and crop jacket. It was a chilly day so..novel! :)

But girls where I used to live often wore petticoats as dresses.

hunterjenn
08-07-2007, 01:52 AM
Keep in mind, most men's shorts here are quite long--not nearly so leg-baring as those you'll see European men wearing. :thumbsup:

Susan P.
08-07-2007, 02:32 AM
Well here younger men have then calf length with underwear or butt showing. Older men will go over knee. Weekend dads go between butt and knee. Workers show their 'tackle' :). Generally all long socks tho young guys will go short socks too.

Raspberry61
08-07-2007, 07:23 AM
I have never been a Harry Potter fan nor are my two sons. It just never captured my imagination and I am a huge reader.

Sia
08-07-2007, 09:40 AM
Well british men now where the same kind of shorts as american men

And im a huge reader too

but each to their own

I read historical fiction mainly and far too many more to mention

Susan P.
08-07-2007, 09:43 AM
I like historical based (murder) mysteries such as Anne Perry and others write. There are a load of wonderful authors in this genre.