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Songbirdy
12-10-2007, 03:44 PM
Can you tell my why it is so important to not admit to eating the hot dogs I made for lunch?

We're going on the 3rd hour now of sitting on our chairs in the dining room.

Someone ate all the hot dogs I made for lunch. I've only got two children and I, my husband and the cat didn't eat them...

So when I ask who ate them... why can't you just say you did?


Our 8 year old son has been getting more and more out of control lately and I think it has a bit to do with the fact that his favourite Grandmother had a mental breakdown and we've been out of our routines trying to deal with that.

But last night I came home from being gone 2 hours to find that him jumping on furniture, our babysitter in hysterics (it took me 30 minutes to calm her down and I have never ever paid that much for 2 hours of child care!), our daughter in tears.

So...

ack... what do I do? Its times like this that I question completely if Home Schooling the kids is worth my efforts!!!


Meanwhile...

I have a feeling its going to be a very long day.

Empty hot dog buns for supper anyone?

jennylozano
12-10-2007, 03:51 PM
I am not the right person to give you any piece of advice since I do not have children. I just HAVE to say this is the kind of story that makes me willing to keep my life childless. I wouldn't know how to deal with this kind of situation!!! I know motherhood is a great thing, but gosh I am still in time to avoid that kind of problems!! I really do hope you get great advice here.

knitncook
12-10-2007, 04:04 PM
(((((HUGS)))))) There is something that happens at 8 that just reminds me so much of when they were 4 (each of my children went through difficult times at ages 4 and 8, have NO idea what it is about those ages, but there were days when I didn't think that they were going to live to see 5 or 9!) It's just the age, although it isn't alright to make the babysitter hysterical or your sister cry. We did a lot of talking when things weren't issues. For instance trying to talk to them right now while the hotdogs are an issue isn't going to get you very far (you're seeing this yourself!) I had several similar incidents happen with food issues. My solution was to ask the children how we would resolve the "empty bun problem."

The bigger problem may be *why* the hotdogs were eaten. Obviously someone was hungry. Could you better figure out if there is a huge growing spurt going on that needs to be fed (literally)? Protein consumption is a big clue to a growing child. My kids generally reach for cheese (which means we've had cheeseless tacos and cheeseless pizzas because someone at all the cheese that was meant for dinner.) I also found putting a menu on the fridge or family board was helpful in letting people know what food was "free" and what food was "committed."

And sending them to school isn't going to eliminate the problems that you already have going on. They are just going to delay them while they are at school and then they tend to erupt when they get home. :hug: You already know that. It's just frustrating some days when you feel at your wits' ends and just need a break that doesn't end in coming home to chaos.

BTW, I've made grilled cheese hotdog buns before. Not to bad if you press down on the buns as you cook them. :cool:

KnittingNat
12-10-2007, 04:27 PM
I am not the right person to give you any piece of advice since I do not have children. I just HAVE to say this is the kind of story that makes me willing to keep my life childless. I wouldn't know how to deal with this kind of situation!!! I know motherhood is a great thing, but gosh I am still in time to avoid that kind of problems!! I really do hope you get great advice here.
On one hand, I agree with you, because now I wouldn't know what to do. On the other, there's no bird bringing you the children when they are 8. You just evolve together with them and gain experience from your own life and from others. If I'll think about the problems my non-existant children will give me 15-20 years from now, than I'm worse than Clever Elsa in brothers Grimm fairy tales :teehee:

Songbirdy, first of all a big :hug:! I do hope you'll get over this thing, maybe you're right and it is the reaction to the mental problems of his Grandmother. Perhaps you should explain the importance of food in the family life and that eating the dinner is leaving everyone else without it.
:muah:

Songbirdy
12-10-2007, 04:42 PM
Thanks Guys!

I just had to come back and say that after 3 1/2 hours we've finally had a confession, each child ate one of the hot dogs.

Yes there was a hunger issue. It was 11:30 a.m. and the hot dogs were cooked for lunch at noon. I am fine with them being hungry when they get to the table ;)

I have to say about the having kids thing... It takes a big person to admit in public that you're not ready to have children, and possibly never. I totally respect you for saying that!

And yet, should the day arrive... I think you find that... you won't have the answers but that... I don't know, you do find the strength to make it through the day. Sometimes definitely not in style... but... yeah...


I am just so very much hoping this is a stage with my son. We've had some trying experiences lately, moving this past June, Grandma (who is 52 btw) issues, and so forth that have left him very angry at the world.

BUT we all have issues and we all have to keep on going. Treating people without respect is not an option. Not if you want to really live life...




I guess that most of my frustration with this stems from the fact that... we've done the food thing... many times...

We've done the whole... "Come on! Tell Mom you did it" game too many times to count...

And there are days where I'd just like to see that its working! That... and I really did want to spend that Babysitting money for last night on gifts! But... that poor girl!!!

Silver
12-10-2007, 04:50 PM
I just HAVE to say this is the kind of story that makes me willing to keep my life childless. I wouldn't know how to deal with this kind of situation!!!
Kids don't come with an instruction manual. I didn't know how to handle things either, but you just kinda do the best you can. ;)

This is why one of my all time favorite quotes is "Raising kids is a lot like trying to nail jello to a tree." It's crazy, seemingly impossible, and sometimes you have to just keep trying and hope they live to see adulthood. :teehee: Mine are still alive, and they're 13 and 16. So I suppose we're succeeding.

For the record, I've conceded to the fact that I will probably NEVER know who broke my new Dyson vacuum cleaner handle. (But we bought a replacement so... life goes on.)

auburnchick
12-10-2007, 05:35 PM
:hug:

My kids are 15 (soon to be 16) and 13. Y'all have read about my woes.

I really think the question is not so much the eating but the lying. Kids are afraid of the ramifications.

I think that as the challenges present themselves, if you are consistent in your expectations and discipline, kids realize that they can trust you, which is part of why they act out -- to see how you will react.

Hang in there! We're here for you!!!

:hug:

Lisa_H-Town
12-10-2007, 05:49 PM
Glad to hear your mystery was solved....

My son's motto is an oldie but goodie: "better to ask for forgiveness than permission"

He's 18, and the outlook (today) is that he will make it to 19... ;)

But check back later.... Everyday is an adventure.

And I have always consoled myself with the fact as mentioned, that they don't come with rule books or instruction manuals, and they are ALL so different, it probably wouldn't help if they did.:)

We just do the best we can, and turn to people for support to get us through the trying times....

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
12-10-2007, 05:56 PM
It's an age thing and good for you for cracking down on them!

my stepsons are 22, 19, and 17... had issues with them big time...
my and dh's sons together are 9 and 7 (no girls)... they're both doing this and driving us batty with it.

debinoz
12-10-2007, 05:59 PM
I have 27, 16, 15, and 13 year olds. I've never had hot dogs go missing, but that "not me" person sure has pigged out on a lot of candy bars, chips and snack cakes!!

Mulderknitter
12-10-2007, 06:08 PM
Im an only child. my invisible twin was the brunt of a lot of "missing" food. Darn that evil doer!
Really, what always worked with me growing up was that my mom enforced the "tell me the truth because if you don't and I find out (and I will) you'll be in more trouble for lying". Totally worked with me.
Actually, reflecting, that is one of the biggest lessons I learned from my mom. I always tell the truth because it is so much worse when someone finds out you lied.
Just tell your son like my mom told me, people do bad things sometime. It's better to fess up and move on than to let it ruin the whole day. Just make sure that you make the consequences for the "bad thing" less than if he had lied about it. I respected my mom for that and that's why I continued to fess up whenever I was caught. (Notice the CAUGHT)

feministmama
12-10-2007, 07:06 PM
Yeah I have an only child. He will be twelve in 11 days. But he started being a pita around 8 or 9. Talking back, lying, whining, not doing what I asked him to do and the arguing. MY GODDESS. "no it isn't" "yes it is" on and on. I hear myself say ""just stop arguing and DO IT!!" more than I like to. But if something is broke, gone or whatever, we all know who did it. And with lying I tell him I'll be more upset with the lie than with the act so he usually fesses up.

I think kids just go through fases where their bodies and minds are developing and they figure out a new way to piss mummy off. They love it. Well not really but they figure out new ways that they are in control of thier minds and bodies so a lot of what goes on, for me anyway, is a power struggle. He just loves his little feelings of power surges at al lthe new things he learns and he has a great time poking me in the *** with it and driving me nuts. It's so hard to contain myself and I just have to keep taking deep breaths and making deals with him and reminding him that I still have the reciept from the hospital and I can take him back any time.

stitchwitch
12-10-2007, 07:49 PM
I wish I was raised in you guys' houses. If something came up broke, missing or eaten and a question was asked of what happened to it and nobody answered, well I can't imagine what would have happened. My parents ran a pretty tight ship, my brother and I would never have gotten by with some of the stuff. Mouth off? That would have been the first and last time. Lie? That wouldn't go over much better. We simply did not give my parents a hassle, we weren't beat but we knew better, there were no time outs or friendly discussions over such things.

zkimom
12-10-2007, 10:12 PM
Don't give up!

There's a belief in Waldorf education about certain stages of child development, one of which is called "the nine year change." This is what I found about it:

At this age, a child enters a new stage of consciousness in which the world outside is perceived to be separate from oneself. Mothers and fathers are often questioned and criticized by their nine-year-old children and there is a real need for an authoritative voice that will help the child develop an inner conscience that will serve him or her for life.

There's much more to this than just that statement but the gist of it is that you will be tested by your 9 year old who is trying to establish his own sense of self and boundaries as he enters this phase. Many children this age start to experience fears that they didn't express before. My daughter all of a sudden wouldn't go to the bathroom without dragging one of the dogs in with her (now the poor things are convinced that the rest of us need their company as well and head for the bathroom door as soon as you open it!)
In some children, the "9 year change" starts early, some go thru this phase later. But if you are consistent with your child and are strong, this too shall pass. Here's an article (http://www.informedfamilylife.org/2005/01/parenting_the_nine_year_old.html) by Rahima Baldwin, author of "You are Your Child's First Teacher" that may be of interest to you.

My daughter seems to have come out the other side and hopefully peace should reign at least until she's approaching 13.

Hope this helps a little!

Best,
Susan (another homeschooling mom)

WildMountainHoney
12-10-2007, 11:15 PM
While my children are younger, I do my absolute darnest to never ask a question I know the answer to - which means if the hotdogs were gone, I would state "I see the hotdogs I made for lunch are gone." Then, at your normal noon lunch time, serve them empty buns and water (or whatever drink they would have had) and if they mention it, then talk about it. But I really like natural consequences. Eat lunch early? Fine, but there will not be a substitute lunch made. My kids know yogurt and nuts are always available, so after their empty bun lunch, if they were still hungry, they could snack.

ecb
12-11-2007, 10:39 PM
when I had snackers (at different times) I would take a cheep trayfrom somewhere, put acceptable snacks on it, and keep track of ho much I had to restock it at the end of the day/week whatever. it had carrots, cellery, salad dressing, cheese bites, little PB cups, Yogurt, raisins and fruit. the kids were allowed to take from the snack tray ONCE, twice required being asked before they took anything (or the tray went away)
snacking cued me into knowing they had a growth spurt kicking in. and yes, I have served my kids emptybread sandwiches due to the food being eaten before the meal.
my kids also learned to listen to their own bodies of what they wanted to eat. Protein snacks mean growth spurt, carrots and fruit ment they were spiking energy and needed to RUN with snacks before and after.
if my kids need to SNEAK stuff, I up the activity level, and the veggies and fruits. If they need to grow, it shows in their pants legs, and sleeves, and sleeping (more).

just me feedback on this
good luck
have fun

ecb

starburst
12-12-2007, 12:21 AM
I work with kids and have done so since I was 13 and if there is one thing that I know about kids is that their greatest motivation is the need to be loved. In the mind of a kid, if they confess to doing something wrong, they will be loved a little less. Now, as an adult we know that you aren't going to stop loving your kids because they ate the hotdogs, but they don't, so confession to eating them scares them.

When I was little, I snuck into the kitchen, opened a giant bag of reeses pieces that was on the highest shelf only for the bag to fall and pour the candy all over the floor. Naturally when my parents came to investigate and they asked if I had opened the bag, I told them no, I was sleep walking! I thought that if maybe, just maybe, they thought that I hadn't done it then they wouldn't get mad. Kids do things that they know they shouldn't with the hope that no one will find out or that maybe they will scrape by without punishment. It's just a series of attempts to locate and push their boundaries.

Jen17
12-12-2007, 10:46 AM
There are certainly a lot of smart women on this thread! So many good thoughts and ideas.
One thought that hasn't been mentioned it the fact that you moved.. moving is a huge experience in a childs life. I moved when I was 9 from the home I had always lived in..moved from all my friends and school. It is a scarey thing for some kids. Other kids just take it in stride.
Also with the favorite Grandma being sick, he may be worried she is going to die. Kids don't understand death or illness at that age and he might be equating the two. I have 2 children 32 and 30 and 3 grandchildren (almost 4! she is due in 15 days). My oldest grandson and I are close and he just moved to Japan (they are military) he just turned 12, but I can just imagine how he would react if I got sick.
Anyway, I think the most important thing is just to keep talking and asking them questions and hopefully he will express any fears he has.
Take care,
Jen

yarnfreak
12-12-2007, 02:45 PM
Kids do things that defy logic. My 8yo SS smacked his brother, turned, and bold face lied about it. Why? Because he thought he was too cute to get into trouble. He was wrong, but he still thought he'd get away with it.

The.Knitter
12-12-2007, 03:10 PM
Dr. Spock be damned!! I raised two children, one is 31 now and one is 28. I had my roller coaster moments with each one (and still do I might add). IMHO sitting them on the chair for 3 hours will make it harder for them to admit the next time that they did something wrong. Perhaps next time you could remove something they really like instead (TV for a few days, or video games). I found something that worked for me was to ask the children what punishment they deserved. Let them call the shots (unless it is not a suitable punishment to fit the crime). Not only does this teach responsibility but it teaches compassion as well. They learn how it feels to be stuck dispensing punishments and how hard your job can be.

Also, try buying a "snack" that is always consistent, such as yogurt or fruit, and telling them that snacks are to only be those foods and nothing else in the fridge or cupboard. Then if the other food starts dissappearing you can punish however you see fit because they were warned.

Good luck and big hugs to you. I hope the rest of your day goes better.

Songbirdy
12-13-2007, 02:59 PM
I too agree, the replies have been great!

Snack is a great thing... and 90% of the time there is always fruit for them to eat so long as they ask first.

Why? Well, there is a monetary concern in our house. Second, I would rather you sometimes wait 30 minutes and eat your supper instead of 3 pieces of fruit. Feeling a little hungry isn't a bad thing, and really we've never been any where near close to hunger. I grew up in Bangladesh and lived there till I was 14 and I know what hunger looks like!

Plus, I've spent a lot of $, time and education on Dietary Needs/Well being and one thing I can tell you is that my children eat very well and healthy! :teehee: Yes you can tell when they are growth spurting but snacking isn't the way to feed that growth spurt! Then again, we all know that!

Anyhow, it was, for me, about the lying.

And I totally agree, the hours on the chair was a huge issue. But then again, it became about control. The food was gone, so I said, "Well, its lunch time, we'll sit down until I know who took the hot dogs."

Then we all ate our buns and drank our water and crunched down our carrot sticks.

I thought for sure some one would say something because they are good kids that way.

But when I realized we weren't going to say... it was an issue of having said, "well, we're going to sit here until."

And the truth is, they were safe, cared for, and well. They weren't denied anything, nor in any harm.

Its not just about telling me the truth, but for them in life. You and I know you can't always deny things when they are right in front of you. Sure you can sometimes get away with things. Sometimes you think, "Really what is the point? This means nothing to me!"

But it can really mean something to someone else, and you've got to learn to see beyond yourself. At least that I my belief. And as a parent I think the knowledge and ability to be honest and respect integrity is a huge asset to your future!

Yes, the lesson wasn't the way I wanted it to be. And if I had time or foreknowledge, I would have done it differently. But I didn't!

WildMountainHoney
12-15-2007, 03:28 PM
it was an issue of having said, "well, we're going to sit here until." I have a love/hate relationship with those moments. I hate feeling "well, I said it now, stick to it" and I also love the chance to show my children that, if I feel I was wrong in what I said, I can say so and work it out. More often than not, though, I opt OUT of a power struggle, they just aren't useful - I feel there is much more value in recognizing and admitting mistakes. A simple, "someone at the hotdogs, and here we have eaten our meatless lunch. What do each of you suggest we do next time, to prevent a meatless lunch?"

And oh, I KNOW I screw up. Often several times a day. Just when you ask on a board, we all have the benefit of not being in the situation, and answering you from a high point. In the heat of the moment? I'm more likely to get it wrong (and often eat crow and appologize for being silly later) than to get it right. I just cling to the times I DO get it right.

mommydearest
12-15-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm so glad I ran across this thread. My ds is 9 for the next 3 weeks and I am really praying for a change in attitude sooner rather than later. He has been incredibly difficult lately in all ways.

He will lie about something and there is no doubt of his guilt, in which I request the truth which will get him a lesser punishment (grounding) than lying and being caught will get him. His sister even tells him to not bother lying since I know things and will find the truth anyway. She was caught only twice and that cured her of lying. I thank God for that since she is at an age where peer pressure is getting stronger. Her friends or those so called friends know not to even offer a cigarette, drugs, or alcohol because she knows I would find out and because she has no desire to be stupid.

Parenthood is the most difficult and sometimes the most unrewarding job around but we have to do it. When my ds tells me how I "don't care about him", I remind him of how many kids are on the streets, doing drugs, etc whose parents truly "don't care" and how lucky he is that I do.

I'm glad I read these posts today since I sometimes forget that ds is only 9, not older and therefore doesn't know better.

Thank you

Mary

ArtLady1981
12-18-2007, 08:39 AM
Take a deep breath, and smile, little Songbird! "This too shall pass". This was my mantra for the years and years and years of raising our 5 children. Yes, we were definitely outnumbered.

I actually came to enjoy my role as "Inspector Jacques Clouseau"! It was challenging to come up with new and unexpected investigative tactics! :teehee:

For example, how does one solve who pooped in the toybox? Hmmm. I had 3 kids, ages 5, 9, and 10, all sayin' it wasn't them! Hmmm. (Oh, but I solved it!)

You don't have bad kids, little Songbird...you have normal kids. Kids come with a built-in "trouble radars". It is self-preservation! :eyes:

I say...live long enough to be a problem to your children! ;)
In the meantime...enjoy...smile...breath deep! Before you know it...they will be gone...paying their own taxes...and grilling their own little "denial units"!

I love being a Gramma in more ways than one! (We have 10 grands now...which means...all of our children are being put through the paces themselves...trying to solve all those household mysteries!)

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
12-18-2007, 09:53 AM
remember: one day they will become parents themselves.

When the oldest let us know that his gf was having a girl.... my first thought (since he was the one that gave us the most trouble growing up): REVENGE IS MINE!!!!

and it is, she's an absolute little monster.

alleusion
12-18-2007, 10:57 AM
I think there is something about that age as well. My DS had severe emotional issues (thank you ex husband) from the time he was about 3 until just recently really (he's 11 now). Each day there was a struggle and tears and you just can't make them talk if they don't want to.

I agree with making them sit there until they told you who ate it. I do admire your perserverance though. I'd have had to bring a book or knitting to the table while waiting them out.

In the end though it seems that you did the right thing and everything worked out. Even if it may have seemed so frustrating and aggravating at the time. Good job mom.