PDA

View Full Version : Largest grocer reduces prices 30% on food


Pat in Ca
05-30-2008, 10:32 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/28/magazines/fortune/kapner_walmart.fortune/index.htm


Surprised?? yes, it's the company you love to hate..lol...helping the poor again..

WildMountainHoney
05-30-2008, 11:02 PM
From the last paragraph:
In fact, it's the small suppliers that are feeling the pain from Wal-Mart's pushback the most. Bushwick has seen its costs rise 10% over the past year, but has passed only half that amount on to Wal-Mart and its other retailers. There will be a lot more "poor" if small suppliers like this find, as fuel costs continue to rise, but they keep trying to offset for Wal-Mart, that they just finally can't do it and either face laying off employees or perhaps going under, or maybe "just" bankrupt.

And I freely admit it, I will shop the sprawlmart to keep my families budget afloat. But I know that I'm not helping the economy - unless keeping WalMart making $ is helping - but that is not helping my LOCAL economy, so I'm trying to look into more local food. I try not to fool myself into thinking WalMart cares about much other than maintaining a customer base, because once you're in there, I bet many spend more than they should - plus a friend worked there for years, so I've seen how she was paid, what her healthcare options were (over 40% of her take home pay! Thank goodness her dh has a job w/better benefits!) etc, etc.

JessicaR
05-30-2008, 11:03 PM
I just stopped eating, take that effers :)

Debkcs
05-31-2008, 02:04 AM
Hey Jessica, your weight loss is wonderful!

I loathe shopping at Wal-mart, but prices there are much lower. $2.00 off a two pound Tillamook cheese. $0.90 cheaper for a dozen eggs, etc.

SBG
05-31-2008, 08:26 AM
Ugh, Walmart. I get sucked into this horrible cycle with them. I hate them, hate their business practices, yet I'm on a very tight budget and can afford much more there than other grocery stores. It's like my family's financial situation and my ethics are on opposing ends. Stupid Walmart.

Becky Morgan
05-31-2008, 11:02 AM
We have several grocery chains here and I can't figure out the "cheap Wal-Mart prices" for the life of me. Kroger's is far cheaper on most things, especially sale items, and the IGA and Shop n'Save are even lower on those items they carry. I DO go to Wal-Mart to buy the stuff we can't get elsewhere. Our area had several department store chains collapse at once, and for about ten years we had to depend on Big Lots and dollar stores for things like socks, underwear, shampoo--the stuff that grocery stores price out of sight if they have them at all. Getting most clothing, any kind of shoes and any craft items took a 50-mile round trip.

People preached the wonders of Sam's Club to me for so long I finally took up the free day offer because DH wanted to look for a radio he'd heard was cheaper. They wouldn't let me walk back into the store. I mean the security guard told me that DS, who was 13 or 14, and I couldn't look at the radios, but DH could. They wouldn't explain (and remember, I was the one carrying the coupon.) When I objected, the security guard and manager whispered off in the next aisle and came back to say DS could look, but I couldn't!

And then they had the nerve to send me a "why didn't you join?" invitation. Sure, I'll give you $35 for the privilege of buying stuff at only slightly higher than normal prices if I can find someone you'll let go in the store for me!

knitncook
05-31-2008, 11:34 AM
We have several grocery chains here and I can't figure out the "cheap Wal-Mart prices" for the life of me. Kroger's is far cheaper on most things, especially sale items, and the IGA and Shop n'Save are even lower on those items they carry.

Ditto! I use a local grocery store and stockpile shop there (buy a lot of what is on sale each week so I can make meals out of food that is always on sale). Meat is better and better priced as well. My store uses one of those "customer reward cards" and has a tally at the bottom of how much I saved this trip and how much I have saved to date. In the three and a half years I have not shopped at Wal-mart, I have saved over $7,000! I noticed that generally when Wal-mart would put things on sale, they weren't really on sale. Once they had Oreos for "2 for $5" when the regular price of them were $2.50 each. Another time their "sale" was on Cheez-its also 2 for $5 when the regular price was $2.49. Hmmmm. Lower prices still don't make up for poor customer service and employee respect.

suzeeq
05-31-2008, 11:49 AM
Walmart has some things lower priced, but usually only by a few pennies. Mostly if you shop the sale prices or get generic/store brands at other stores, their prices are actually cheaper. I wandered through Sam's Club to check prices and they weren't a lot cheaper, if any, than other stores. Costco's the same way - if you want a brand name, they're a little cheaper, or you can save by buying in bulk. But for most things, or for just 2 people, there's really not a lot of savings there.

Wanda Witch
05-31-2008, 12:01 PM
Walmart has some things lower priced, but usually only by a few pennies. Mostly if you shop the sale prices or get generic/store brands at other stores, their prices are actually cheaper. I wandered through Sam's Club to check prices and they weren't a lot cheaper, if any, than other stores. Costco's the same way - if you want a brand name, they're a little cheaper, or you can save by buying in bulk. But for most things, or for just 2 people, there's really not a lot of savings there.

This is what my DH and I have discovered. We do buy some items at Costco in quanitity for the convenience alone; however, using coupons, shopping the local specials offered by our markets seems to work for only two people. Plus, we realize our 'local' store(s) appreciate our patronage, even the larger chains. They recognize you, greet you. Walmart is not for us. One does not save that much, from what I've experienced, and they drive out the local merchants creating hardships. IMHO, Walmart is ONLY interested in the almighty buck.

annomalley
06-01-2008, 08:25 AM
Walmart has some things lower priced, but usually only by a few pennies. Mostly if you shop the sale prices or get generic/store brands at other stores, their prices are actually cheaper. I wandered through Sam's Club to check prices and they weren't a lot cheaper, if any, than other stores. Costco's the same way - if you want a brand name, they're a little cheaper, or you can save by buying in bulk. But for most things, or for just 2 people, there's really not a lot of savings there.

I started keeping a price book and I've found, based on unit prices, that that penny difference between Wally and the other store works out to the same unit price when rounded off to the nearest whole cent. Unit price is what really matters because it determines what kind of value you're getting. That penny difference in the total price is mostly psychological, so you think you're getting a good deal, but in all actuality, you're paying the same price per unit as you would if you went to the store down the street and paid a penny more. And if you drove out of your way to save one cent off the total price at Wal-Mart, you just spent more than that penny on the gas it took to get you there.

I've also found, since I started keeping price book, that Wal-Mart, for the most part, was actually more expensive to shop at than the grocery store where I do my shopping. The difference in price on a head of lettuce between Wal-Mart and my store was 50 cents (my store was cheaper). And yes, Wal-Mart is cheaper than my regular store on some things, but on the majority, they are not. The difference in price on coffee alone pays for the gas for me to drive to my other store. I started comparing unit prices on things I buy between the two stores, because I wanted to see how I would come out if I started shopping at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is actually closer to where I live than the store I shop at. I discovered that, factoring in the cost of gas and distance, I still come out ahead shopping at my regular store. Plus my regular store is huge and has the biggest selection of items I've ever seen. If I can't find it there, then it probably doesn't exist.

I suspect that what Wal-Mart is doing is nothing more than good PR and drumming up more business and getting us to spend our money there. I don't know how long they could keep it up because I don't think even they have the power to keep vendors from passing the shipping and fuel costs onto them, and in turn, Wal-Mart passing it on to us. Lowering their prices doesn't help when the quality of some of their items is very poor.

annomalley
06-01-2008, 08:33 AM
People preached the wonders of Sam's Club to me for so long I finally took up the free day offer because DH wanted to look for a radio he'd heard was cheaper. They wouldn't let me walk back into the store. I mean the security guard told me that DS, who was 13 or 14, and I couldn't look at the radios, but DH could. They wouldn't explain (and remember, I was the one carrying the coupon.) When I objected, the security guard and manager whispered off in the next aisle and came back to say DS could look, but I couldn't!

And then they had the nerve to send me a "why didn't you join?" invitation. Sure, I'll give you $35 for the privilege of buying stuff at only slightly higher than normal prices if I can find someone you'll let go in the store for me!

DH and I were wanting to have a look at Sam's to see if it would pay for us to get a membership there. We live in an apartment, and don't have a lot of storage space for big bulky items, but there are some things we could buy in bulk. We found that they won't let you in the store unless you buy a membership. Not wanting to spend the money on a membership without knowing if it would pay off for us, we turned around and left and decided never to go there again.

suzeeq
06-01-2008, 10:24 AM
That's odd, the time I went in to Sam's to look around, they let me. I think I just told them I was interested in a membership and wanted to see what they had.

annomalley
06-01-2008, 01:56 PM
Maybe it depends on the particular Sam's Club. :shrug:

suzeeq
06-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Yeah, it probably varies by store, or the employees just didn't care that day....

brendajos
06-01-2008, 10:40 PM
I wish I had faith in Walmart's ulterior motives. Unfortunately, having seen enough, the only thing this does is help to further pound the nails into the coffin of the mom and pop shops that were already struggling to compete.

Back in the days that I used to shop at the Sam's and Walmart stores, I was buying something at Sams. I went to walmart later and found that the exact same item was actually cheaper in walmart. how freakin' rude! :tap:

knitasha
06-01-2008, 11:07 PM
The article sounds as though it came straight from Walmart's public relations department.

They are temporarily lowering prices on hundreds of items this year. Which means the savings can last for a week and then disappear. What's the difference between that and putting items on sale temporarily? And what about the thousands of other items they sell? Are those prices by any chance creeping up?

And how are they achieving this great gift to mankind? By clipping a couple of pennies from their own profits? Heaven forbid. They are demanding that small vendors lower their prices by "making distribution more efficient." Of course the vendors are supposed to bear the costs of all the changes. Not much they can do about it either, since they need the Walmart business. Who else are they going to sell their goods to -- the smaller shops and chains that Walmart has driven out of business?

Cynamar
06-02-2008, 01:17 PM
I don't buy much food at Wal-Mart at all and it helps that mine isn't a Super Center but yesterday Julianne & I were in there and she wanted milk. I din't pay attention to the price but when I got home and looked at my receipt I found that it cost much less than I expected or than the last time I bought milk. Nice surprise. I still don't feel right buying it there.

Silver
06-02-2008, 06:07 PM
The great smoke and mirror trick of wal-mart continues...

ArtLady1981
06-03-2008, 04:58 AM
Wal-Mart is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
06-03-2008, 09:06 AM
i actually found that i spend MORE at walmart on groceries than I do shopping locally.... and we're not talking just the gas (it takes 1/4 of a tank round trip to go to the super center.. they're talking about building one here but as soon as the target near us that they're building is done, we're DONE shopping at walmart). I have an Aldi's nearby, a Save - a- Lot and even those have just about the same prices as Hannaford and Price chopper... but all 4 are cheaper than the walmart super center....

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
06-03-2008, 09:12 AM
here's what walmart (and price chopper, and k-mart) do for their "great savings"

about 1-2 months in advance, they slowly mark the prices up... sometimes 10 cents, sometimes a dollar or two and it goes up until it's about 50 cents under the brand name item... people buy the store brand because it's still cheaper... at the same time they're also increasing the costs of the brand name item around 15-30 percent.... this spikes 2 weeks before the sale so that people see the sticker...

then they put the item "on sale"... and it's still between 15 and 20 percent MORE than it was to begin with. Notice the "buy one get one" deals you're only saving 50 cents to a dollar from the previous week if you'd have bought two of the item. it sucks but that's the way it is.

vaknitter
06-03-2008, 12:41 PM
I think WalMart asking companies they buy from to reduce packing and production costs is not a bad thing. I buy from local farmers markets whenever I can, but it's just not practical on all things. Explain to me how Kroger jumped the price of milk from $3.49 gallon to $4.99/gallon in a week, but at Sam's or Walmart it is still $2.75-$3.00? Same thing with cereal - box of cereal at Kroger went up to $3.99 and at Walmart still $2.66. My Arnold Whole Wheat Bread is almost $4 at Kroger and still $1.89 at Walmart. Our Walmart bring in palets of fresh veggies and fruit they buy from farmers. The "locally grown" at my Giant comes from Florida or Pennsylvania. I get that small stores don't buy in bulk and cannot compete with Walmart, but I don't see Walmart any differently than our SuperTarget, SuperKMart or PetSmart. All of these came in and drove small locally owned shops out of business, increased traffic, required widening of the road, new stop lights, broke water mains etc all that taxpayers had to fix. Now there's no money in the budget to come out and pave my road.

Silver
06-04-2008, 07:22 AM
When walmart forces a supplier to lower costs where do you think the lowered costs come from? They don't just say 'oh, we used to charge $1.00 for this, walmart wants it cheaper, so we'll now only charge $.90.' And poof, prices lowered!? No, they cut costs so they can lower the price. That may be by using lower quality ingredients, going to a cheaper laboring source (child labor maybe?), or cutting out inspections.

When walmart lowers prices, the quality of the item is also lowered. Lots of companies that supply product to walmart have a separate production line just for the low-cost walmart stuff. If you've ever been a regular shopper for a specific item at walmart, chances are you've noticed a degradation of quality on that item over the years.

I'd hate to find out just how they lower costs on a gallon of milk. :shock:

Pat in Ca
06-04-2008, 02:07 PM
The article at the beginning of the post explained it this way..

How? By pressuring vendors to take costs out of the supply chain.

"When our grocery suppliers bring price increases, we don't just accept them," says Pamela Kohn, Wal-Mart's general merchandise manager for perishables. To be sure, Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) isn't the only retailer working to cut fat from the food chain, but as the largest grocer - Wal-Mart's food and consumables revenue is nearly $100 billion - it has a disproportionate amount of leverage.

I know there are a lot of Walmart haters out there..Have you ever noticed how many threads have been started about Walmart? kinda funny why a store would be so controversial.. I guess I just think that they provide a good service to a lot of consumers, especially those on a fixed income.. not to mention provide jobs to many who may not be able to find work...I think I heard that 3,000 people lined up in the Chicago area to apply for jobs there...it can't be all that bad...

jeanius80
06-04-2008, 03:23 PM
"When our grocery suppliers bring price increases, we don't just accept them," says Pamela Kohn, Wal-Mart's general merchandise manager for perishables.

:!!!:they don't just accept them??!? SO the supplier has to eat the increased cost of shipping (from every aspect of producing food products. feed for animals, shipping produce seeds ect) so that WM can make another buck.

I try my damnedest to NOT shop there. We buy most of our groceries from Win Co, Saar's, or Albertson. WM has never saved us much on our grocery bill, and they almost never have everything we are looking for the few times we did shop there. Ive tried to convince my sister about this, but she is just sure that WM is cheapest (just because she can get Pantene cheapest there:??) I think I have about 6 different grocery stores within 5 miles (and countless more within 10 miles) so i have no reason to shop for my groceries there. Thank God!

debb
06-04-2008, 04:44 PM
not only are their suppliers expected not to increase their prices, often their contracts require them to reduce their prices over the length of the contract. Some companies have bankrupted themselves trying to meet the lower price and others just move offshore and layoff their American workforce.

Pat in Ca
06-04-2008, 05:05 PM
The funny thing is I don't even shop at Walmart.. but I just believe they are no different than Target..

IMHO


If Wal-Mart is so bad, why do 100 million Americans shop there every week? Is a third of the population too dumb to know they're acting against their own interests?

Wal-Mart employs 1.3 million people in this country. Yes, their wages are low, by and large. But if they could find better jobs, why are these people working at Wal-Mart? If Wal-Mart didn't exist, why do you think they'd be paid higher wages?

Do small businesses - the fabled "mom and pop" stores you hear so much about - have a right to remain in business, even though they charge people more than Wal-Mart does for the same products? If so, what other professions have a right to charge above-market prices for their goods and services? Do I have a right to double my salary as a talk show host, regardless of how many people watch my show?

You attack Wal-Mart's desire to beat its competitors. But how is it different from any other company's competitive desire? How is it different from any professional athlete's?

PCwombat
06-04-2008, 06:59 PM
If Wal-Mart is so bad, why do 100 million Americans shop there every week? Is a third of the population too dumb to know they're acting against their own interests?

...There are way too many reasons to list for this, and none of them are as simple as they are "too dumb." I bet a lot of those people know that Walmart is not a good company. However, for some people, unfortunately their prices are the only ones they can afford because in some areas of the country, Walmart is the best deal. And a lot of people don't think in the long run. All they care about is feeding their family on a budget, not about the state of the U.S. or world economy.

Yes, Walmart provides over a million jobs. But the conditions under which some of the jobs are worked are awful. So why should people support a company that has such policies? Why not push for a higher wage and better working conditions? Why should those people have to settle? Companies don't have to be an awful employer in order to be successful. Research the company Patagonia. Working there would be awesome.

Inis
06-04-2008, 07:53 PM
Ditto! I use a local grocery store and stockpile shop there (buy a lot of what is on sale each week so I can make meals out of food that is always on sale). Meat is better and better priced as well. My store uses one of those "customer reward cards" and has a tally at the bottom of how much I saved this trip and how much I have saved to date. In the three and a half years I have not shopped at Wal-mart, I have saved over $7,000! I noticed that generally when Wal-mart would put things on sale, they weren't really on sale. Once they had Oreos for "2 for $5" when the regular price of them were $2.50 each. Another time their "sale" was on Cheez-its also 2 for $5 when the regular price was $2.49. Hmmmm. Lower prices still don't make up for poor customer service and employee respect.
Me, too, you guys. I ALWAYS come out with more stuff from our local Kroger store, ALWAYS.

Then, again, I don't have to have certain name brand items every week. I just get what's on sale and stock up on those items for future use. And I use coupons from the Sunday paper which they double up to a buck.

Plus time is short for me these days. I don't have 20 minutes to wait in line at Wally World.

suzeeq
06-04-2008, 10:23 PM
In some places, walmart is the only place people have for shopping unless they drive an hour or so to another town. In effect, they're forced to because the stores that existed before wm came in are no longer there.

debb
06-05-2008, 09:26 AM
The funny thing is I don't even shop at Walmart.. but I just believe they are no different than Target..

It's a matter of scale - yes Target is big but not compared to Walmart.

IMHO


If Wal-Mart is so bad, why do 100 million Americans shop there every week? Is a third of the population too dumb to know they're acting against their own interests?

often they have no choice. those that do, do not realize or do not care.

Wal-Mart employs 1.3 million people in this country. Yes, their wages are low, by and large. But if they could find better jobs, why are these people working at Wal-Mart? If Wal-Mart didn't exist, why do you think they'd be paid higher wages?

when 25% of our workforce was unionized, that was 50% of the population getting union wages and benefits since companies had to give their non-union workers similar wages to compete for labor. Now the unions have been so decimated since Reagan declared war on them, real wages have stagnated. Why do you think people should not be able to earn a living wage at any job they do? Doesn't everyone deserve to be treated with dignity and respect regardless of what they do for a living?

Do small businesses - the fabled "mom and pop" stores you hear so much about - have a right to remain in business, even though they charge people more than Wal-Mart does for the same products? If so, what other professions have a right to charge above-market prices for their goods and services? Do I have a right to double my salary as a talk show host, regardless of how many people watch my show?

Walmart often goes into a community, lowers their prices to the point of even losing money until the competition disappears, then raises prices again.

You attack Wal-Mart's desire to beat its competitors. But how is it different from any other company's competitive desire? How is it different from any professional athlete's?

There is a difference between competing on even ground and unfair competition where Walmart gets tax breaks, special considerations, etc that others do not.

Pat in Ca
06-05-2008, 12:15 PM
And the walmart discussion is never ending? don't ya think??

procurement and labor practices that, according to the McKinsey consulting group, made Wal-Mart responsible for about 25 percent of the nationís astonishing productivity increases in the 1990s. The low prices made possible by these practices have made Wal-Mart a significant contributor to low inflation. Warren Buffett says Wal-Mart has contributed more than any other company to todayís economic vigor.

Walmart accounts for 50% of American productivity growth over Europe in the last decade...

Productivity growth reduces poverty.. we are all against poverty , right??

In free markets there are winners and losers.. no business venture is guaranteed success.. unless in you want a socialistic/communist society

jdee
06-05-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm not trying to argue, but I just have to say something. Those little "mom and Pop" places aren't always so great. I live in a fairly small town, and I love it, but it's one of those places where if you're not from here, you're pretty much an outsider. Even though, I pay taxes, and make my home here, every time I've tried to shop at the little shops down town, I get treated the same way. All the little buddies, and old friends get together and talk with the owners, and I'm just left to fend for myself. And don't think I don't notice the "who the __are you?" looks that I get.

So, yes. I shop at Walmart and Kroger. Why should I pay extra to go into a little shop, and get treated like that? At least at chain stores, we're all on equal footing.
Please don't be mad at me. You're all intitled to your own opinion, but I'm intitled to mine, too.

Pat in Ca
06-05-2008, 02:22 PM
No need to apologize... free markets mean that we all get to spend our dollars wherever we want.. without intimidation...I look at it as a right to vote for who is meeting the consumer's (the little guy)
needs.. the winner is the business who meets the consumers needs,whoever that may be.... that way the winner is really the consumer (the little guy)..

In my opinion there is too much negative propoganda about Walmart
But that is just my opinion..I would never say we must all shop at Walmart..just don't make the ones that want to feel bad about it..

annomalley
06-05-2008, 05:12 PM
In my opinion there is too much negative propoganda about Walmart
But that is just my opinion..I would never say we must all shop at Walmart..just don't make the ones that want to feel bad about it..

But it's okay to come on here and make people who dislike Wal-Mart and will not shop there for whatever reason feel bad about their opinion by posting Wal-Mart's own propaganda?

Or is it only considered propaganda because you don't agree with it? Do you consider the personal experiences other people have had with Wal-Mart that have been posted in this thread propaganda, too, because it doesn't fit with your view of Wal-Mart?

People who don't like Wal-Mart are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are entitled to yours. I don't think you're going to convince the world to stop hating on Wally World. I have not seen anyone in this forum intimidating another poster to stop shopping at Wal-Mart. The last time I was at Wal-Mart, I didn't see people lined up outside trying to intimidate shoppers to not shop there, either. So I don't understand where you get this from.

You said this:

free markets mean that we all get to spend our dollars wherever we want.. without intimidation...

Free markets also mean that people are free to choose not to spend their dollars wherever they want...without intimidation.

scout52
06-05-2008, 05:27 PM
unless in you want a socialistic/communist society


just need to point out socialism and communism is not the same thing. there are democratic countries that have strong social programs. ie universal healthcare

Pat in Ca
06-05-2008, 05:38 PM
If you read my posts you will see I support your position..free markets mean that we are all free to spend our dollars wherever we like...and we are all free to voice our opinion.. I welcome you voicing your opinion. In fact in the above post I said "I would never say that everyone should shop at Walmart" I just felt a little bad that that lady was afraid someone would be mad because she liked to shop at walmart...so I was directing that last post to her..

cftwo
06-06-2008, 09:17 AM
I actually have found that I can save substantially on a number of items at WalMart. Plus, they have a larger selection than my regular/regional grocery stores around here. Since I am feeding 1 person, I'll often buy microwave meals. Not the healthiest, I know, but definitely a convenience. They're regularly 50 cents cheaper per item at WalMart. My veggie burgers? 50 cents cheaper per box at Walmart. If prices go up at WalMart, they're usually also going up at the regular grocery stores.

I'm not too crazy about their employment practices, and I have a lot of friends who only go there in "emergency" situations (where it's a choice of WalMart or a 50 mile drive one way for an item). Like someone upthread mentioned, too, there's a nice anonymity to the chain stores in small towns which is helpful for newcomers.

iza
06-06-2008, 09:59 AM
Does Wal-Mart supports the free market? Honestly I think it destroys it. To have a free market you need competition. Wal-Mart wants to destroy competition and be a monopoly. Some people have said that there is no other choice for them than Wal-Mart. It's scary! What's the difference with a communist country where you need to get all your groceries at the only government-ran store available in your area? None. Instead of giving your money to a communist government (that you didn't choose in general), you give your money to a single, insanely rich company (managed by a CEO you didn't choose) who is protected by a pseudo-democratic government. That's not a free market at all!:shrug:

knitasha
06-06-2008, 10:48 AM
And the walmart discussion is never ending? don't ya think??

procurement and labor practices that, according to the McKinsey consulting group, made Wal-Mart responsible for about 25 percent of the nationís astonishing productivity increases in the 1990s. The low prices made possible by these practices have made Wal-Mart a significant contributor to low inflation. Warren Buffett says Wal-Mart has contributed more than any other company to todayís economic vigor.




Ummm -- what economic vigor would that be?

Pat in Ca
06-06-2008, 11:40 AM
Free markets just means that prices of goods and services are mutually agreed upon by the buyer and seller...no third party (Govt)
is involved... so competition for the consumer is good for the consumer, the seller must satisfy the buyer, or they go out of business... competition for the buyers $$ forces the companies to provide the services they demand.. or they go out of business.
If Walmart was not providing a service that people need... they would go out of business..
Competition forces the "good" to rise to the top.. that means some will fail.. but it creates more good....IMHO.. It does no one any good to prop up failing ventures..give the buyers what they want..they are the little guy and they should control the markets..

miccisue
06-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Free markets just means that prices of goods and services are mutually agreed upon by the buyer and seller...no third party (Govt)
is involved... so competition for the consumer is good for the consumer, the seller must satisfy the buyer, or they go out of business... competition for the buyers $$ forces the companies to provide the services they demand.. or they go out of business.
If Walmart was not providing a service that people need... they would go out of business..
Competition forces the "good" to rise to the top.. that means some will fail.. but it creates more good....IMHO.. It does no one any good to prop up failing ventures..give the buyers what they want..they are the little guy and they should control the markets..
I should just ignore this and walk away.....but I can't. I AM one of those "mom and pop" stores that you basically say should compete with Walmart, and if I'm "good" I'll rise to the top and if not I'll fail....but if I'm destined to fail, why "prop me up"?
I'll tell you why. Even those little "mom and pop" shops are employing people. We are busting our buns EVERY day to make sure that we do the very best we can, that we have great customer service, and can best serve the customer's needs. We want to stay in business, and we want our employees to continue to have jobs.
Here is the major problem as I see it. Walmart comes to town. They promise lots of new jobs, cheap prices, economic stimulus. But, they also get breaks the "hometown" business doesn't - no property tax for 10-15 years for example. Anyway, they set up shop, and they do offer lower prices - does anyone doubt that a multi-million dollar corporation can buy in much larger quantities than local businesses? The more you buy, the better break you get. So, where they may order hundreds of thousands of oh, say Corelle 16 piece dinner sets, the small local business can only buy 50. Do you have ANY clue as to the difference in cost to the local business? Of course they are going to have higher prices - they are paying more to even purchase the product....heck, they might be paying more than Walmart charges you.
Does that mean they deserve to fail????? The fact that they aren't able to expand into being a multi-million dollar corporation means they aren't "good" and that they should fail? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My town used to have 2 fabric stores - not chain stores, independently owned fabric stores. There was bolt after bolt of every type of fabric, every kind of trim you'd want (like for moms who were sewing costumes for their kid's dance classes, baton corps, etc.), and they were busy as all get out. BUT, in moves Walmart, and after a few years, the store went away. A couple of other independent fabric stores tried opening up, but sadly, they ended up closing too. So, now, unless you want to drive at least 50 miles, you buy fabric at Walmart......but wait, they're closing the fabric and craft department!!!!!!!!!
They drive people out of business and get a monopoly on the market, and then they dump on the people they were supposedly there to help with their low prices.
I honestly can't count the number of businesses in my town that have closed due to Walmart. And I personally do not think it was because they were mismanaged, unreasonable, poor quality, lacking in customer care, or any of the reasons you have given for the "good" (aka Walmart) rising to the top and the "poor" failing. It's because it's a simple fact that they can't compete with the bulk price discount Wally World gets. Plain and simple.
And I'll give you a little clue about Walmart providing what people need.....in some cases that is true. But I'll also have you know that when people are into something complicated or need help and advice they come to us. What bites is that we do the best we can to help them out - identify the problem they are having, possible causes and what needs to be done to fix it.....and then they leave and go to Walmart and pick up the repair items "because they're cheaper". Of course, they didn't have a clue as to how to help them find out what they needed because their employees aren't necessarily properly educated in the fine points of the department they're working in, but they get the end sale. Now, let me ask YOU.....as a consumer, how or why would you go to a professional to find out what you need to have to fix a problem, then turn around, walk out that door, and go to the "cheaper place" to get the parts? Seems like the customer service was pretty darn good. Seems like the store did what they needed to help the customer. Sure doesn't seem like they "deserve to fail", now does it?
:tap: :fingerwag: :grrr: :nails: :fingerwag: :tap:

Pat in Ca
06-11-2008, 12:57 PM
I am so sorry that you must have misunderstood me..I would never want any business to fail!! I doubt anyone would..and I do agree that it is a difficult environment for the small businesses that have to compete with the big retailers..which include not just Walmart, but Target, Home Depot , Costco, Sams..

However there are many things that the big retailers CANNOT provide..and it is those elements that give the small retailer with opportunities to survive in their communities..
They fill the gap in several ways..Sometimes I just want to get in and out of a store..I HATE the big parking lots and the long walks just to get to the front of the store!!

I know for sure the # 1 complaint and problem the big retailers have is customer service..how many times have we gone into Home Depot and not been able to find ANYONE to help?? same as with Walmart, Target, etc..
So many times we need guidance and help and nobody can beat the personalized service you get from the smaller stores...It is for that reason that I want to support my local yarn stores.. I want them to stay in business.. sometimes I will order things online, but I purposely
support my local stores.. My dad has run a small business his whole life and has been constantly been threatened by many bigger businesses..there are definate risks in going into business for yourself..competition is one of them..I don't think we should eliminate
the competition.. but others are free to disagree..

My point is only that Walmart doesn't differ much from the other big retailers I mentioned..non-union super stores that are expanding into a lot of urban areas..I don't see how eliminating them would be a good thing...

Pat in Ca
06-11-2008, 01:36 PM
I also agree with you that ALL corporate tax rates need to be reduced..for ALL corporations...I think more people are talking about this, so maybe we will see some relief on this issue..

bjc1050
06-11-2008, 03:27 PM
Even Walmart started out as a small business....maybe not a "mom and pop store", but still small without the advantages of BIG corporations. Somehow they still managed to succeed and grow. As they have expanded, they have paid for roads or streets near their stores. I doubt that small business can do that. I think they set an example of what can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work.

Big businesses also contribute large amounts to scholarships and local charities. Thank God for big business. That includes Target, Lowe's, etc.

bjc1050
06-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Also, when there are many in need of supplies due to the ravages of hurricanes and such, Walmart is one of the first corporations to respond with necessities.

miccisue
06-11-2008, 07:21 PM
Also, when there are many in need of supplies due to the ravages of hurricanes and such, Walmart is one of the first corporations to respond with necessities.

Ahhhh, they're just the ones you HEAR about. I'd bet you 10 to 1 that people from surrounding communities who didn't get "hit" (or however you want to put it) are also right there on the scene - many of them "mom and pop" store owners who are doing whatever they can as well.
Small business is the backbone of this country.....and as you see them go by the wayside, one is actually witnessing the demise of the American dream.

miccisue
06-11-2008, 07:31 PM
Even Walmart started out as a small business....maybe not a "mom and pop store", but still small without the advantages of BIG corporations. Somehow they still managed to succeed and grow. As they have expanded, they have paid for roads or streets near their stores. I doubt that small business can do that. I think they set an example of what can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work.

Big businesses also contribute large amounts to scholarships and local charities. Thank God for big business. That includes Target, Lowe's, etc.
Pardon me, but I find this highly insulting. "What can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work." If you think that those of us in "mom and pop" stores do NOT have business sense, and do NOT work hard, you are sadly mistaken. 66+ hour weeks? Keeping solvent while fighting the big corporations? Believe me, it takes a LOT of business sense and hard work - and we, as well as all mom & pops, do it thank you very much.
I hope to heaven that small businesses are able to hang on against the onslaught of the Walmarts, Lowes, Home Depots, and the like. If they are not, you WILL be sorry in the future, mark my words. I'm sure you don't believe me, but if there comes a time that those are the only businesses you have to rely on, it will be a sad, sad day.
God bless the "mom and pops" in this country!!!!!!!!!!! Long may they prosper.

bjc1050
06-11-2008, 09:59 PM
Ahhhh, they're just the ones you HEAR about. I'd bet you 10 to 1 that people from surrounding communities who didn't get "hit" (or however you want to put it) are also right there on the scene - many of them "mom and pop" store owners who are doing whatever they can as well.
Small business is the backbone of this country.....and as you see them go by the wayside, one is actually witnessing the demise of the American dream.

I didn't mean to say that smaller businesses don't help with disasters. However, businesses like Walmart can and DO help on a much larger scale so recovery can begin sooner. Just as I am unable to make as large a donation as someone who is very wealthy - small businesses contribution is smaller than Walmart's or Target's.

Arielluria
06-12-2008, 03:42 PM
Me too! I shopped at a Kroger a few months ago just to wean myself off Walmart and I spent $184 dollars, Walmart would have probably saved me at least $50.......so I went back!

bjc1050
06-12-2008, 04:08 PM
I shopped primarily at Kroger in the 70s. It was the only large grocery store besides A & P. Both were pretty expensive. Mostly I could only purchase the weekly specials. Giant Food was the same way in the Washington, DC suburbs. I'm thankful for Walmart. I still don't do all my shopping at one store, but find many good deals at Walmart without needing a coupon.

suzeeq
06-12-2008, 09:49 PM
We have 2 Safeways, 2 Albertson's, couples WMs and a Kroger owned grocery. When I lived in Krogerland, it wasn't always the cheapest; here it is on the staples, and Albertson's is pretty good on sale items. I mostly go to Safeway and WM for stuff only they carry. Don't need a card at Albertson's anymore, and the prices have actually got cheaper since then, I think. I always get their meat in the markdown section; it's $1-2 off a package and since it's going in the freezer anyway, who cares if it's at the pull date.

bjc1050
06-13-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm thankful that we have great grocery store competition where we are now....2 Walmarts (with another coming in about a year), several Food Lions, and 3 Martin's which is part of the Giant Food family. When we lived in WV the nearest grocery store was a small IGA with very limited selection and very high prices. They thought they had captive shoppers. Even if I traveled 30 miles to a larger town, the larger stores there didn't have many bargains. I had to travel 50 miles to Winchester to have any real choice. Safeway which has left Winchester usually had higher prices except for their specials. Guess that's why they finally closed.