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View Full Version : Should I Ask For a New Daycare Room For My Son? -UPDATE pg. 3


stacyk9
09-02-2008, 10:05 AM
I have been very, very happy with the daycare my son has been going to for the last 2 1/2 years now, but today made me reconsider some things. My son was moved to the preschool room about a month ago and every morning he has thrown a fit, begging me not to leave him. He was not like this in his previous room. At first I thought he was just upset about leaving his best friend and that things would calm down after a week or two. So far, that has not happened. He keeps telling me he doesn't like Miss Becky's room. He wants to go back to Miss Holly's room, which he can't because he's too old. Well, this morning has me thinking I may ask for him to be moved to the other preschool room because Miss Becky was in an extremely foul mood and seemed to be taking it out on the kids. Some of the kids were crying as they usually do on the first day of the week, but I knew it would be worse after a 3-day weekend. She had one kid in her arms and another on the floor who was crying and didn't want to go outside. Well, she grabbed his arm, told him he was going to listen because she was the teacher and basically just started dragging him down the hallway. Now, it would be bad enough if she did this when no one was looking, BUT I WAS RIGHT BEHIND HER!!!! She didn't care if I was there or not. Now, to be fair, I don't know this child's history and maybe this is an every day event, but he certainly did not need to be treated in such a way. Now I'm wondering if my son doesn't like Miss Becky's room just because he left his best friend or if he might be truely scared of her.

I hate to cause conflict and as I said before, I love this daycare and everyone I have dealt with so far, but I just don't know if I can leave my child in that room one more day knowing he may be the next one dragged down the hall!!! I know I can always use the excuse that he's just not happy in there and he does have another boy he was pretty close with in the other preschool room and just ask for a change, but I feel like someone should know about this behavior.

What do you all think?

kellyh57
09-02-2008, 10:17 AM
I would definitely say something. Tell the directors exactly what you saw. She needs to be reported. If she acts like that in front of parents, just think what she does when nobody is looking. Can you sit down with your son and have a heart-to-heart and see if there's more to the reason he doesn't like his new class? I know that it may be hard for a 2 year old to explain, but can he tell you that she's mean or she hits or anything else? Can you pop in unannounced and see if anything suspicious is going on? I'd do whatever you can to make sure your child is safe and well-cared for!

Kelly

mwhite
09-02-2008, 10:17 AM
This is YOUR child and you know him best. There is obviously a problem and keep in mind that these people actually work for you. Your son has gotten past the "losing friends" phase and you should NOT feel strange at all about asking, discussing, advising and requesting a change. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY about this!!! All of the lil bugers are different and unfortunately, don't have directions/instructions attached at birth. Being a mother/father is a huge responsibility and we all made/make errors in judgement but go with your heart on this!

My granddaughter fell on the monkey bars a couple of months ago, causing temporary(we hope) damage to her front teeth. Her lip was cut, bruising around her mouth and her teeth went up into her gums. The NOW-EX-daycare workers didn't even have the decency to mention the incident to my daughter or SIL, the child told them she'd fallen and her mouth hurt. When asked, they told her parents that they put ice on it. They should have called mom and/or dad IMMEDIATELY!

nephthys8
09-02-2008, 10:35 AM
Speaking as a former childcare provider of about 8 years, this is not excuseable, but it may not be entirely her fault, either.

I think it would be constructive to go to the director and point out that perhaps there are too many children in the class to be handled by the one teacher. Tell the director that you are concerned that your child might not be getting the quality care and attention that you have come to expect from the school/daycare and say why if you feel you need to.

I was once blamed for something similar, despite the fact that the child in question was a difficult child who bit me. No, the teacher shouldn't lose her cool, but I at least was in the situation where I wasn't allowed to refuse to watch the child, which put me between a rock and a hard place about what I should do next. The other problem I had was that I was younger and probably not nearly as patient. All I am saying is to please think about it from all sides.

davespurl
09-02-2008, 11:16 AM
I think you need to go with your gut feeling. As a parent, that is something you often have to do. 2 1/2 seems young to me to be in a preschool room but that must just be the way they work there. If your child is unhappy and you have been a good customer, the daycare should be willing to work with you and switch your child back to give him more time to mature and handle the change. As you know, kids develop differently and don't all progress at the same speed. Bottom line is you must do what you feel is right. You must follow your intuition in the matter.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do and what happens.

stacyk9
09-02-2008, 11:19 AM
this is not excuseable, but it may not be entirely her fault, either.

perhaps there are too many children in the class to be handled by the one teacher.

All I am saying is to please think about it from all sides.

I agree with everything you had to say. There are too many children in her classroom. There are 25 and although there are 4-5 teachers in the room at one time, she is generally by herself when the children arrive. There's alot going on in the mornings.

If there's one thing about my personality that I pride myself on is being able to see both sides of a situation, even when one side is mine! Maybe she was having a bad morning, maybe there is a history with this child, I don't know. But I think what I saw this morning may have a little more to do with why my son has been so adament about not going to school lately as this is new for him. He has always wanted to go to school.

Thanks again!

stacyk9
09-02-2008, 11:21 AM
Can you sit down with your son and have a heart-to-heart and see if there's more to the reason he doesn't like his new class?

I have talked to him about it and all he tells me is Miss Becky makes him sad. As I said before, I was just waiting this out thinking it was a transitional phase, but from what he has said to me and from what I saw this morning, I think there may be something else going on.

stacyk9
09-02-2008, 11:27 AM
I think you need to go with your gut feeling. As a parent, that is something you often have to do. 2 1/2 seems young to me to be in a preschool room but that must just be the way they work there. If your child is unhappy and you have been a good customer, the daycare should be willing to work with you and switch your child back to give him more time to mature and handle the change. As you know, kids develop differently and don't all progress at the same speed. Bottom line is you must do what you feel is right. You must follow your intuition in the matter.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do and what happens.

I was wondering about his age and going to preschool as well. He just turned 3 last weekend, but there are kids as old as 5 in his room and I know that is a huge difference in toddler years! As far as his progression, I would say intellectually and physically, he is ready for preschool, but emotionally, I'm not so sure. Some of that may be my fault. He's an only child and I'm sure I do baby him more than I should. If I had to go with my gut right now, I would ask for him to be moved to the other preschool class and if that doesn't work, then maybe all the way back to the toddler room.

nephthys8
09-02-2008, 11:40 AM
I agree with everything you had to say. There are too many children in her classroom. There are 25 and although there are 4-5 teachers in the room at one time, she is generally by herself when the children arrive. There's alot going on in the mornings.

If there's one thing about my personality that I pride myself on is being able to see both sides of a situation, even when one side is mine! Maybe she was having a bad morning, maybe there is a history with this child, I don't know. But I think what I saw this morning may have a little more to do with why my son has been so adament about not going to school lately as this is new for him. He has always wanted to go to school.

Thanks again!

It sounds to me like you are quite the reasonable parent, which (believe me) is always appreciated! :mrgreen: Kudos to you for being so willing to understand the situation.

If she is alone in the room first thing in the mornings, then that is most likely where the problem starts. As you said, there is a lot of stuff going on when the children arrive and just getting them all to entertain themselves or do the assigned activity while the other children are ushered in is a chore. 25:1 is in no way an appropriate ratio for a busy time of day like that. Employee or parent, I would insist on having someone else there in the mornings.

If that happens and nothing improves, I think moving him would be perfectly reasonable because then you can say that you tried to compromise with the situation you are currently in and obviously it isn't working out. If they don't change things, then you'll also know how they truly respond to a parent's concern.

Also! :thumbsup:
I encourage you to learn about the ratio laws in your state. In Virginia, there are all kinds of laws about what the numbers have to be. When I was actually working in childcare, I think it was something along the lines of no more than 6:1 for >12 months old; no more than 12:1 for 1-2 yrs.; and a similarly higher cap for 3+ yrs. As I'm sure you know, things like the occupancy restrictions of building and rooms also come into play. Know the state laws and know what that particular building is allowed and don't let the organizers try to "skate" by with larger ratios. It is illegal and dangerous for both the kids and the teachers and should be reported. (Don't even think about it from the discipline standpoint--think about it from a fire evacuation or similar incident standpoint. There's simply a limit to how many small children one adult can keep organized.)

Miss Kittie
09-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Well, she grabbed his arm, told him he was going to listen because she was the teacher and basically just started dragging him down the hallway. Now, it would be bad enough if she did this when no one was looking, BUT I WAS RIGHT BEHIND HER!!!! She didn't care if I was there or not.
You might feel this way, but you should never do it.

if he might be truely scared of her.
After seeing that and other things she has done when you NOT around.
Duh, you think. I would be scared too.

nephthys8
09-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Sorry in advance if I'm being too opinionated about this. :oops:

I was wondering about his age and going to preschool as well. He just turned 3 last weekend, but there are kids as old as 5 in his room and I know that is a huge difference in toddler years! As far as his progression, I would say intellectually and physically, he is ready for preschool, but emotionally, I'm not so sure. Some of that may be my fault. He's an only child and I'm sure I do baby him more than I should. If I had to go with my gut right now, I would ask for him to be moved to the other preschool class and if that doesn't work, then maybe all the way back to the toddler room.

That is quite an age difference! My sister and I went to preschool as toddlers and did well with it. In the end, my mother was a teacher and then a director of the very same preschool. That particular one separates the children by age group so the classes are all 2 yr olds, all 3 yr olds, etc. Occasionally, a younger 5 yr old would still be in with the older 4s, but they usually "graduated" the 4s when they finished that last year and they went on to Kindergarden.

Anyway, I watched all of this happen growing up and as a teenager. When I have kids, I hope to be able to keep them out of preschool/daycare until they are 2 or 2 1/2, but I also know very well that that may just not be possible. Keeping kids grouped by age seems right to me, though. 2 yr olds who might still have potty accidents are very different from a child who is nearly 5. I think it depends on what you want your son to get out of it, how happy you really are with the school, and what (if anything) else is reasonable available to you in your area. Overall, it sounds like a good program where they try their best.

susi
09-02-2008, 12:02 PM
personally i think taht is so very very wrong, no matter what kind of day she's having (and how bad could it have been AT WORK (before dosent matter) ) for something like that to happen, no matter if this child does this daily.
i think i'd talk to the head about what you saw, she may have a history of it you never know. i know if i saw taht being done to ds i would hit the roof. but patience about things like that arent my strongest point.

Its not a position you should ever have been put in, nor the childeren.

Good luck

Abbily
09-02-2008, 02:22 PM
I would talk to the teacher about it first- see what she has to say. Try (I know this would be hard!) to approach her in a non-confrontational way and explain how your son has been feeling, and what you saw her do. At that point you will probably have a feeling one way or the other about her- whether she is sincere and it was a one-time mistake, or whether that is her attitude all the time. Then you can go to the director and tell him/her your feelings and what you witnessed, and see what happens. For the sake of the other kids in the class, it would be good to make sure the director understands *why* you're requesting a transfer.

I agree, that is too many kids for one classroom. You might check on your state's laws regarding teacher/student ratio- if the daycare is not following the law, then that is something that should definitely be addressed.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this! Good luck, I hope you are able to get it resolved.

Jan in CA
09-02-2008, 02:43 PM
My daughter was a preschool teacher for years and they do get frustrated, but what you saw is unacceptable. I would discuss it with the director and ask to have another placement.

stacyk9
09-02-2008, 03:29 PM
I just made an appointment to speak with the assistant director this evening when I pick up my son. Her and I have become pretty close in the last year as she was also Alex's toddler room teacher. I feel very comfortable with her and I know I can be completely open and honest. I have decided to ask for a transfer to the other preschool room and if there isn't a spot open right now I may even ask if he can go back to the toddler room until a spot opens up. I just wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't at least ask for a transfer. I know it may not happen tomorrow or the next day, but at least I will have the ball rolling.

Jan in CA
09-02-2008, 05:14 PM
I hope it works out for you, Stacy!

This teacher could be just having a bad day, but if she's been there a long time it may be burn out and she needs a long vacation. :shrug:

nephthys8
09-02-2008, 05:20 PM
It sounds like you found a perfectly balanced solution to the problem. Good luck! :thumbsup:

stacyk9
09-02-2008, 05:21 PM
This teacher could be just having a bad day

My thoughts exactly. She did seem a bit frazzled. I know everyone has bad days and can act out of character, it was just frightening to me that she was willing to act like that in front of another parent! We'll see what happens at the meeting tonight.

auburnchick
09-02-2008, 06:13 PM
Stacy, I'm proud of you. Parents have to remember that we are our children's advocates. I look at it as MY responsibility to see to their best interests. There are way too many kids out there that many times their individual needs go unnoticed. Never be afraid or embarrassed to stand up for your children. It takes a lot of guts, but your kids will appreciate and love you for it later.

:hug:

ecb
09-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Stacy, I'm proud of you. Parents have to remember that we are our children's advocates.... your kids will appreciate and love you for it later.

Unless they are teenagers

JK
I had a situation similar happen to my eldest, and I was also friends with the owner of the day care center. My Daughter came home saying how other kids were being yelled at for asking to go to the bathroom. When I brought it to her, I was told she took care of it. For the next 2 weeks my daughter seemed to have suddenly become the worst disciplinary problem the school had ever had enrolled there. She had previously not been anything of the kind.
When I went back about the retaliation she was experiencing, I was told it might be better of we moved to another child care center.
Instead I cut back on my hours and took care of her at home, or used friends (we made a co-op)
:thumbsup:
Hope you have a MUCH better experience than I did

Ellieblue
09-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Something about all the comments bothers me. Why must a 2 or 3 year old be subjected to a school setting while they are still babies. MY daughters had their children in daycare but always stressed that they not be treated as students but be left to play with each other regardless of age. All these grandchildren are now grown up, in their teens and twenties and are doing just fine. Let them enjoy their childhood.

mks22300
09-02-2008, 08:15 PM
I work in daycare and I'm a preschool teacher. We all have those frustrating days where it seems like no one is listening, but under no circumstance should a child be grabbed by the arm and pulled down the hall. 25:1 seems like a very high ratio! The ratio here in NY is 8:1 and even then it can sometimes seem too high. I do hope that everything will work out for you and your son. Preschool is such a fun time!

rachael72knitter
09-02-2008, 08:19 PM
It could be a phase. Sometimes children cry as they get a little older. They still cry in kindergarten, but I would def. check into it. There is no reason to grab a child's arm when they are crying or upset. Where I teach, we do not touch the children!

I would def. check into it. Have a conversation with the supervisor or director, but I would ask other parents as well what their experience is, and I would drop in unnanounced to watch your child in the class. My daycare had windows and we could stand by them and watch without being seen. See what is going on during the day.

It def. isn't a good sign if lots of the children seem to be in turmoil, but it is kind of common for children to get upset at that age. It is hard for them and they become more expressive at that age.

Bottom line though- you are right for being concerned b/c sometimes a mother's intuition is the best indicator, and you know your child best.

Don't make any knee jerk decisions though, look into it, but soon.

Just my two cents.
(I kind of had a similar experience.)

rachael72knitter
09-02-2008, 08:24 PM
I was wondering about his age and going to preschool as well. He just turned 3 last weekend, but there are kids as old as 5 in his room and I know that is a huge difference in toddler years! As far as his progression, I would say intellectually and physically, he is ready for preschool, but emotionally, I'm not so sure. Some of that may be my fault. He's an only child and I'm sure I do baby him more than I should. If I had to go with my gut right now, I would ask for him to be moved to the other preschool class and if that doesn't work, then maybe all the way back to the toddler room.

A preschool should not have three year olds and five year olds in the same room. Also, 25 doesn't seem like that is in accordance with the state's adult/child ratio. It can't be. I agree that is way too many.

Are they NAEYC accredited?

auntcrafty
09-03-2008, 12:26 AM
I just made an appointment to speak with the assistant director this evening when I pick up my son. Her and I have become pretty close in the last year as she was also Alex's toddler room teacher. I feel very comfortable with her and I know I can be completely open and honest. I have decided to ask for a transfer to the other preschool room and if there isn't a spot open right now I may even ask if he can go back to the toddler room until a spot opens up. I just wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't at least ask for a transfer. I know it may not happen tomorrow or the next day, but at least I will have the ball rolling.

I'm glad you are doing this! The teacher needs to be reported to the school & if I had witnessed it, would have been required by law to report her to CPS/DHS (as a professional nanny, I'm considered to be a mandatory reporter). No matter how chaotic the atmosphere or stressed out you are, physically dragging a crying child down the hallway is not okay & any adult who does this shouldn't be providing childcare.

I know others feel 3, 4, & 5 year olds should be in different rooms, I however have a different perspective. With the right coaching (aka -- right teachers), children of those ages successfully interact together in the classroom. Children learn through modeling, so who better to learn from but a peer. With the teachers guiding appropriate behavior, it works! It happens in many classrooms across the USA. This type of situation works very well for the older child, too, they learn how to positively interact with their peers and love to teach others new things. It doesn't work if the teachers are not helping the children, though!

Praying this situation works out for your little one & for you.

auntcrafty
09-03-2008, 12:34 AM
A preschool should not have three year olds and five year olds in the same room. Also, 25 doesn't seem like that is in accordance with the state's adult/child ratio. It can't be. I agree that is way too many.

Are they NAEYC accredited?

As long as all 4 teachers (mentioned in a previous post) are in the classroom and the room is large enough to accommodate them all (I don't have the measurements with me) NAEYC would still accredit them. State laws vary on the ratios for teachers to students and I don't remember how many children Stacy said were in the classroom at drop-off. The care facility needs to be following those guidelines and might want to establish a 2 adults policy at drop-off -- one to talk to parents/guardians & the other to monitor activities set out for the children. She said there are 25 children in the classroom with 4 teachers.

I have worked in classrooms with mixed ages and have witnessed happy, well adjusted children showing it can work. It all depends on the teachers/educarers & the facility.

susi
09-03-2008, 06:03 AM
Something about all the comments bothers me. Why must a 2 or 3 year old be subjected to a school setting while they are still babies. MY daughters had their children in daycare but always stressed that they not be treated as students but be left to play with each other regardless of age. All these grandchildren are now grown up, in their teens and twenties and are doing just fine. Let them enjoy their childhood.
oh i so agree, i think education in england/america is started far far to early. in france they dont start until there last year at pre school, just to get them used to the school type lessons. and then its more fun than work.

i know if i'd stayed in the uk it would have be a steiner school for ds rather than any other as they dont start until they are 6 (or is it 7, i can never remember) either way to me thatsthe right age to start. i kept ds at home as i wasnt sure about the amount of work he was being given (it was very very little, but i felt at 3 he shouldnt be doing any really. no letters reading etc, taht would come on its own, and it is now HE'S ready rather than the systems ready to taech him. I'm lucky though i can keep him at home and will home educate him if i dont feel te systems right for 'propper' school.

hope all went well with the depūty head and things are being sorted out. no child should go through that, pre school/school should be fun. its teachers like that that ruin it for children!!

stacyk9
09-03-2008, 10:08 AM
I had a very nice meeting with the assistant director of the daycare yesterday. I told her how Alex had been very adamant about not wanting to go to school since he's started in the preschool and of what I saw the teacher do yesterday. She said she would speak to the director who would then look at the video tape to see what happened. Luckily they just installed cameras there two weeks ago!!! She also said that they do in fact have a history with this child and the parents have given full permission to do what's necessary. I told her that if everyone there is in agreement with this child, then that is between them, but I still didn't agree with it, especially since it was done in front of other children and I, in no way, condone that type of action with my child.

She said she will also talk to the teacher and I think I will, too, now that I have both sides of the story. She also said she will let me know when a spot opens up in the other preschool room so I can then decide if I still want to ask for the move. She did tell me, though, that the room Alex is in right is much more structured than the other room. She said the teacher is much more lenient and kind of lets them do what they want. Knowing my son, he definitely needs the structure. He is a very, VERY active 3 year old and does need to be reeled in once in a while.

So, all in all, it was a good meeting and I can still switch rooms if I feel the need. I want to thank everyone who has posted advice or comments. It has been such a great help!! I am not one to speak up for myself, but when it comes to my child I'm not afraid to do so and you all encouraged me all the more.

mwhite
09-03-2008, 10:15 AM
Sounds like you're accomplishing what you need! GOOD for you, MOM!

susi
09-03-2008, 10:17 AM
I had a very nice meeting with the assistant director of the daycare yesterday. I told her how Alex had been very adamant about not wanting to go to school since he's started in the preschool and of what I saw the teacher do yesterday. She said she would speak to the director who would then look at the video tape to see what happened. Luckily they just installed cameras there two weeks ago!!! She also said that they do in fact have a history with this child and the parents have given full permission to do what's necessary. I told her that if everyone there is in agreement with this child, then that is between them, but I still didn't agree with it, especially since it was done in front of other children and I, in no way, condone that type of action with my child.

She said she will also talk to the teacher and I think I will, too, now that I have both sides of the story. She also said she will let me know when a spot opens up in the other preschool room so I can then decide if I still want to ask for the move. She did tell me, though, that the room Alex is in right is much more structured than the other room. She said the teacher is much more lenient and kind of lets them do what they want. Knowing my son, he definitely needs the structure. He is a very, VERY active 3 year old and does need to be reeled in once in a while.

So, all in all, it was a good meeting and I can still switch rooms if I feel the need. I want to thank everyone who has posted advice or comments. It has been such a great help!! I am not one to speak up for myself, but when it comes to my child I'm not afraid to do so and you all encouraged me all the more.


Thats great taht they have listened, and have a video tape of it, how useful is that. My ds is hyperacive and basicly very very hard to handle at home, under no cercomstances would i ever give a school teacher (or anyone for that matter) permission to do what they think is necessary, tahts just scary on th e parents side!!

Well doen for speaking out though. I know its hard but as you said when its your child you can do just about anything cant you.

you never know a complaint against her might just be enough to give her a kick up the backside to act better with the children.
Good on yout hough

nephthys8
09-03-2008, 10:20 AM
I'm glad to see an update from you, Stacy!

It sounds like you got a lot of questions answered and that the school is responding in a positive way--both are excellent signs. :mrgreen: Do keep us posted on what happens and if you switch, okay? :hug:

Jan in CA
09-03-2008, 12:25 PM
:thumbsup:

rachael72knitter
09-03-2008, 08:13 PM
Hmmm. . .I was just thinking in light of what you discovered, that if a teacher has some "behaviour issue" kids in the room, that can aslo stress a child out. It does make for a more structured room b/c of those children, and it can be an adjustment for the child to see the teacher being stern. So... maybe that is contributing to your child being sad. I know it is tough for everyone with those type of difficult children in the class.

I would still def. go and observe. See how the kids are interacting, see if there is a good community built among those kids in the classroom, and see how the teacher interacts with them.

mks22300
09-03-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm so glad that your meeting went well and I hope that Alex will adjust to his new room.
Like Rachael pointed out in the last post, one kid can stress the whole room out, I know that from first hand experience from last year's class. My co-teacher and I tried our best to keep our moods positive for the other kids in the room so we weren't taking our frustrations out on them. I admit, there were a few times when we had to pass him of to our director just to gain the peace back in the room. If I hadn't had the co-teacher that I did, things would have been much worse. I've had not so great co-teacher's in the past with a challenging group and it wasn't a good situation for me or the children.
I don't know what it's like for Alex's teacher, but I hope she has some good help in the classroom before she gets totally burned out.