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auburnchick
10-01-2008, 12:28 PM
As y'all know, I recently started subbing as a way to try to get my face known at the schools so when a teaching position becomes available, hopefully I will have an advantage.

Well, I got my paycheck for my first subbing job, and oh boy...what a shock!

My district pays $55 per day for subs with bachelor's degrees. At 7.5 hours of work, that breaks down to $7.33 per hour.

Very sad.

I do not mind that I will not make much money teaching, but this...for subs who are responsible for 30 kids each class period, is sad. I made more money when I was a paraprofessional at the schools a couple of years ago, and I wasn't even allowed to be in a classroom on my own...without a teacher! That's standard policy for all para's.

Sigh...

I LOVE subbing, and I'm hoping that I can find a teaching position really soon. But it's not economically feasible for me to sub more than one day a week (I have another part-time job that pays a lot more but is not in the education field).

Sigh...

Sorry...had to vent.

I think we should take the salaries paid to these corporate executives and filter them down to those not paid adequately for the jobs they do.

:::stepping off my soapbox now:::

Wanda Witch
10-01-2008, 12:43 PM
Oh, Nathalie, you have every right to be on a soapbox. All teachers do. They are so underpaid. Our nation's future is in their hands. You and all teachers have a right to feel sad.

Silver
10-01-2008, 01:07 PM
Teachers are the most underpaid profession there is. But if teachers were paid high salaries, there would be a lot of unethical people doing it just for the money. You do it because you love the job and love the kids, and that is priceless, appreciated, and very very special. :hug:

auburnchick
10-01-2008, 01:08 PM
I think my rant is less about teacher pay (although I did kind of stick it in at the end) and more about substitute pay.

If I didn't have my college degree, I'd only be making two dollars less per day. Those with Master's degrees get paid $65 per day. It's not like the teachers are making us do anything different if we have one degree or another. For the most part, the teachers don't know who we are...at least at first. Although I did sub for a friend last week, and when he found out it was me subbing for him, he allowed me to actually teach his class because he knew I was qualified to do so.

This year we are having elections for a new school superintendent, and my kids' principal is running. He'll probably win. He knows me very well thanks to my daughter's soccer ability. I'm going to see if I can pull him aside one day and pick his brain about this.

auburnchick
10-01-2008, 01:11 PM
Teachers are the most underpaid profession there is. But if teachers were paid high salaries, there would be a lot of unethical people doing it just for the money. You do it because you love the job and love the kids, and that is priceless, appreciated, and very very special. :hug:

Yeah, you're right...although some people get into the field because they get Christmas and summers off. Phooey. I want to do what I love.

I'm having a blast subbing, which is why I'm so upset. I really want to continue, and I will but at fewer days per week since my bills still need to be paid. I know I'm good at it, and teachers are already asking me to come back.

I guess I want them to make a special exception and pay ME more. I'm not asking for much, eh? :teehee:

iza
10-01-2008, 01:19 PM
That's pretty ridiculous. Considering how hard and ESSENTIAL this job is, you are so right to be frustrated!

Hang in there. Remember why you decided to become a teacher. :hug: This is what's important.

Mike
10-01-2008, 03:21 PM
Teachers aren't underpaid around me. I think they start at $30K. Then they go back for a Masters and get more. And more again for a PHD.
Not really that bad for a 9 month job that is nearly impossible to lose after you've had it for 2 years.

We all knew we were being conned when my niece claimed she couldn't find a job that paid anything around here and went to the south.

But I bet subs don't make much around here either. They're not expected to be much more than baby sitters. (Which you couldn't pay me enough to be.)
The pay is probably why so many subs only look at it as a baby sitting job.

As for how essential teachers are, that depends. The one that taught me that since cold was heavier than warm, ice formed on the bottom of lakes and floated to the top was by no means essential. The one that flunked a friend for doing a report on peccaries because peccaries don't exist was also not essential. The one who turned me off of math by making his class heavily slanted towards giving jocks extra credit and required the ones like me to do extra work for minimum credit should've been taken outside of town and shot.

stitchwitch
10-01-2008, 04:04 PM
Move down to Hillsborough County! :cheering:
In the past five years or so I think we've had something like 20+ teachers arrested here for sex with students, selling drugs, buying drugs, sex for drugs, video taping students getting dressed in the locker room, etc. etc.. You name it, we've had it here. We need good teachers, ours suck! It seems like lately the only ones applying are the whack jobs who have some sort of alterior motive behind getting the job. I've heard the pay scale for first year (BA) teacher is $35K and Hillsborough is always having a job fair to attract teachers.

auburnchick
10-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Awww...such sad stories, Mike!

I grew up in a small town where the coaches taught history and civics. Yeah, and it's a wonder I love both subjects and want to teach them, eh?

I guess there must not be very many subs who take their jobs seriously like me.

Oh well...

Debkcs
10-01-2008, 04:10 PM
The one who turned me off of math by making his class heavily slanted towards giving jocks extra credit and required the ones like me to do extra work for minimum credit should've been taken outside of town and shot.

Agree with you 100%, Mike. I tried to express to my algebra teacher that I had a hard time understanding abstract thought, he laughed at me and turned around and told the whole class. What a jerk! Turns out to be a type of dyslexia, and there were three of us in that class who had it.

Back to you, Nathalie, I think you and all other well qualified teachers should be payed more, and it should be merit based, then people wouldn't want in just because it pays well. Football players make all that $ running down a field with a ball in their hands, and the people that teach their children can't make enough to send their own kids to college. Something is very wrong.

Puddinpop
10-01-2008, 05:54 PM
That is ridiculous. You could make more at Wal-Mart. Personally, I couldn't do your job (as baby sitting). I love kids, but I couldn't take it all day. Too bad we don't have more teachers like you that really care and it's a shame that some get so much and others get so little.

lelvsdgs
10-01-2008, 09:45 PM
Teachers aren't underpaid around me. I think they start at $30K. Then they go back for a Masters and get more. And more again for a PHD.
Not really that bad for a 9 month job that is nearly impossible to lose after you've had it for 2 years.

Tell that to the 200 plus teachers who got pink-slipped this last year, most of them tenured. It is a myth that teachers can't be fired.

"Those with Master's degrees get paid $65 per day." Auburnchick you are so right and at least here in Califronia, they say it's a negative to get your Master's unless you have a tenured postition (which as I've said is no longer a guarantee here anymore) because then it's near impossible to find a teaching job because they don't want to pay the higher salary.

I'm a paraprofessional and I think it's so funny that we aren't supposed to be in a classroom without a teacher as well. I work in the adult ed program and not really in a classroom but a resource room. I make half of what the teachers make an hour and while I love the teachers I work with, there isn't a day that goes by when they aren't calling on me to show them how to "fill in the blank".

I'm so glad to hear your dedication to teaching and if you're good and it sounds like you are getting a good reputation, you will probably end up with as much work as you want. I know here the good subs work darn near full time! Thank you for being a teacher, it is a calling and you obviously have it. :muah:

Crycket
10-01-2008, 09:50 PM
I feel your pain...

When I left the theatre I was working (Jun 08) I was able to take my severance as they were laying us off in excess of 13 weeks. I am getting married and moving away so I thought, good, I will take it.

After 10 years, I ended up with a considerable amount less then I thought... it turned out, the severance was based on my average salary (not my current) and mulitiplied by 10.

Average salary, So, 2 years I ushered at half of my current salary, and the last 3 or 4 years of on again, off again work, boiled down to a really lousy pay out!

At least you can say you liked what you were doing *smiles*

auburnchick
10-01-2008, 10:18 PM
Tell that to the 200 plus teachers who got pink-slipped this last year, most of them tenured. It is a myth that teachers can't be fired.

Oh, our district had massive layoffs at the end of last school year due to a huge budget reduction. Our county voted to reduce the millage rate, which helped taxpayers but negatively affected the school system, which was already strapped to begin with.

I think that the district and state will rue their actions and will restore things back to how they were ($$-wise) next year. In the meantime, people like me wait, and wait, and wait.

God's timing is perfect though, and I trust Him to provide.

Lady Violet
10-01-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm right there with ya, Nathalie. I'm an elementary assistant, and both my parents are teachers, so I know the system. We have a handfull of subs who are at our school practically every day. The good thing about subbing is that you get your foot in the door. Foster those relationships that you're forming with the teachers you see a lot. They'll put in a good word for you and keep their ears open as well. If you ask me, nobody in education (teachers and such) is paid enough. We put up with a lot of really bad stuff and "the powers that be" are so much out of touch that they just can't understand. Out of sight, out of mind.

I hope you find something soon. As for me, I'm going to go enjoy the rest of my track out.

:hug:

eta: Just saw what you posted about layoffs. My school has more kids this year (in fact, two of the three single tracks were doubled), yet we don't have enough to keep all the staff we had last year. There were two new assistants that they got rid of before I even tracked in for this year. I never met them. I'm just glad our principal helped them get jobs at other schools. Our second grade classes are now sharing assistants. There's even two kindergarten classes that are sharing an assistant. That's just wrong. Somebody needs to educate the powers that be.

kristaj
10-06-2008, 11:27 PM
Teachers aren't underpaid around me. I think they start at $30K. Then they go back for a Masters and get more. And more again for a PHD.
Not really that bad for a 9 month job that is nearly impossible to lose after you've had it for 2 years.

I don't usually get into this debate because people have their minds made up about it and they usually can't be changed, but I've had a bad day in my classroom so this time I changed my mind.

First of all, Nathalie you are completely right, subs are shamefully underpaid! They are doing the exact same job as teachers with very little to show for it. I also have never seen the point of giving subs a different pay for their level of education. Its a hard job no matter how much or how little you get paid for it.

Now, to the teachers not being underpaid. First of all teachers work 10 months out of the year now, not 9 and contrary to popular belief they don't get paid for those two months. Second, those two months that we supposedly have off we spend in workshops and college classes so that we can keep our certification and prepare for the next school year. We also have to pay for those college classes. A lot of professions out there pay for their employees to go back to school. Third, I generally work 10 to 11 hours a day not counting grading papers at home on the weekend. Most teachers I know do the same. So it is not the 8 hour job most people think it is. So if you divide the $30K that was mentioned by the number of days worked, then by the number of hours worked a teacher makes about $16 an hour. That does not take into account the money that is lost by buying supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets. When you look at other professions with the same amount or less of education it doesn't even compare.

I will now also step off my soapbox.

Debbie
10-06-2008, 11:40 PM
I don't know of any other job where you have to spend your own money in order to do the job well :)

Plantgoddess+
10-07-2008, 05:49 PM
You have my sympathy. It does seem that the more valuable job you have the less you should be expected to be paid. As my mother has said "They have a calling, they shouldn't expect more money". Says who? What is more valuable than educating the next generation or taking care of the ill and infirm?
I think people have screwy priorities when executives can make millions because of who they know while contributing next to nothing for the "common good" while those who go into fields of work that benefit society are expected to just scrape by.
Jumps off soap box.

ecb
10-07-2008, 07:08 PM
I am a sub, I love what I do, and feel SO very under qualified
I am an RN with my Nursing degree and 4 classes short of a BS in Biology
I am not organized like the teachers I cover for, and every
one has their own way of setting up for me (if any)
some keep things where they belong and leave a list for me to seach and find
some leave me a list on top of a pile of stuff I am supposed to only use what is in the pile
some leave me movies or tests to give
I always try to find things to do during "prep" time, make copies, help other teachers, something to earn my pay (no matter how much or little it is I am being paid to do that work)
I do appreciate the money
but I do not do the job for the money, I do it to support the school. although I M working on maybe getting some college credits to shore up my education in this area

Mike
10-10-2008, 08:42 AM
I don't usually get into this debate because people have their minds made up about it and they usually can't be changed, but I've had a bad day in my classroom so this time I changed my mind.

First of all, Nathalie you are completely right, subs are shamefully underpaid! They are doing the exact same job as teachers with very little to show for it. I also have never seen the point of giving subs a different pay for their level of education. Its a hard job no matter how much or how little you get paid for it.

Now, to the teachers not being underpaid. First of all teachers work 10 months out of the year now, not 9 and contrary to popular belief they don't get paid for those two months. Second, those two months that we supposedly have off we spend in workshops and college classes so that we can keep our certification and prepare for the next school year. We also have to pay for those college classes. A lot of professions out there pay for their employees to go back to school. Third, I generally work 10 to 11 hours a day not counting grading papers at home on the weekend. Most teachers I know do the same. So it is not the 8 hour job most people think it is. So if you divide the $30K that was mentioned by the number of days worked, then by the number of hours worked a teacher makes about $16 an hour. That does not take into account the money that is lost by buying supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets. When you look at other professions with the same amount or less of education it doesn't even compare.

I will now also step off my soapbox.
I agreed that subs are underpaid, and that's probably because they are looked at as little more than baby sitters.

Teachers are paid a salary. That salary is equal to what other blue collar (and many white collar) people make in a whole year.
Teachers around here that are going back for workships and college classes are doing it to increase their pay, not keep their certification. Like I said, once you have tenure it's hard to lose the job.
Many teacher I knew spent those 3 months working other jobs (different states have different school years). I even knew one teacher that worked at a cannery in the fall, which means he wasn't putting in 11 hour days at the school.

$16/hr is pretty good pay to start out with no experience.
I think if you looked at what people with 4 year degrees are getting fresh out of college you would find that $30K/yr is doing pretty good.

I agree, teachers should not be buying supplies out of their own pockets. And if the ones who waste budget money so they can keep their budget higher than they need would not do that perhaps there would be more for those who don't have enough of a budget.

GinnyG
10-10-2008, 08:57 AM
The "going rate" for subs here is $50.00 a day. I think it's crimiinal!

GinnyG
10-10-2008, 09:13 AM
Teachers aren't underpaid around me. I think they start at $30K. Then they go back for a Masters and get more. And more again for a PHD.
Not really that bad for a 9 month job that is nearly impossible to lose after you've had it for 2 years.

We all knew we were being conned when my niece claimed she couldn't find a job that paid anything around here and went to the south.

But I bet subs don't make much around here either. They're not expected to be much more than baby sitters. (Which you couldn't pay me enough to be.)
The pay is probably why so many subs only look at it as a baby sitting job.

As for how essential teachers are, that depends. The one that taught me that since cold was heavier than warm, ice formed on the bottom of lakes and floated to the top was by no means essential. The one that flunked a friend for doing a report on peccaries because peccaries don't exist was also not essential. The one who turned me off of math by making his class heavily slanted towards giving jocks extra credit and required the ones like me to do extra work for minimum credit should've been taken outside of town and shot.

:shock: you think 30K a year is FAIR? I'm not going to get into a debate over good teachers vs bad, you will find good and bad in any profession. A dedicated teacher is worth far more than 30K a year, the incremental increase for advanced degrees is minimal.

My son has a duel Masters' (education and physics), has taught Physics and Chemistry for almost 10 years and makes less than 50K a year teaching in one of the wealthiest school districts in the country . 9 months is really 10+ months since teachers generally go back to school at least two weeks before the students and work a week after classes end. He may have 6-8 weeks off in the summer but us usually taking classes during that time to keep current in his field or teaches summer school for an amazingly low amount of money. He arrives at school at 7 am and does not leave til 5PM, he is available to his students and their parents every evening and weekends. He puts in countless Sat mornings tutoring (for free) students that are struggling. He volumteers his time (also for no increase in pay) for many after school activities and must attend all evening programs at the school .

I am sorry that you have had bad experience with teachers but perhaps if teachers were compensated for their true worth and talents it would attract more qualified individuals into the field.

scout52
10-10-2008, 02:43 PM
Teachers are paid a salary. That salary is equal to what other blue collar (and many white collar) people make in a whole year.
Teachers around here that are going back for workships and college classes are doing it to increase their pay, not keep their certification.

Teachers have white collar jobs. THEY ARE COLLEGE EDUCATED. Teachers to not get ANY respect. Just like lawyers and doctors need continuing education, so do teachers. And after taking teaching people's kids (who many do not get the support of the school, community OR PARENTS themselves), they deserve and NEED the 6 week break or they will get burned out.

Teachers start out with the SAME loan debt as all other college graduates so the pay should start at the LEAST 30K. They are teaching the future leaders of America. I truly think teachers are sorely underpaid, schools are underfunded, programs are underfunded.

Every profession has terrible people in it. Every profession has awesome people in it. Don't paint the whole profession with a broad brush.

Nathalie I hope you find a position in a school that you love

auburnchick
10-10-2008, 04:52 PM
Awww...thank you so much.

:hug:

I hear 'ya about the student loans. I've got $16,000 to pay back, starting this month. I have no idea how I'm going to pay it back while I'm looking for a job.

Oh well...

Hopefully one day soon...

lelvsdgs
10-10-2008, 05:58 PM
$16/hr is pretty good pay to start out with no experience.
I think if you looked at what people with 4 year degrees are getting fresh out of college you would find that $30K/yr is doing pretty good.
I don't know where you live but starting salary for teachers here is well below 30K. That figure is with 8-10 years experience. Teachers are grossly underpaid by any standard. And most of them work 10-12 hours a day and in most professions, that's overtime and there's some kind of compensation for that. Not for teachers.

As far as having to spend their own money in the classroom, it's ludicrous to just say make a better budget and you won't have to spend your own money. You obviously don't have a clue about how schools are funded.
It's sad that you obviously didn't have a good experience with teachers and I'm sorry but most teachers word damn hard and do their best. (and no, I'm not a teacher)

Mike
10-10-2008, 11:50 PM
The "going rate" for subs here is $50.00 a day. I think it's crimiinal!
I agree, they shouldn't even get a daycare worker for that much.

you think 30K a year is FAIR? I'm not going to get into a debate over good teachers vs bad, you will find good and bad in any profession. A dedicated teacher is worth far more than 30K a year, the incremental increase for advanced degrees is minimal.

We're talking STARTING pay, no experience, fresh out of college.
This in a time when many people graduating with 4 and 6 years degrees are lucky to find a job let alone one in their field.

Going back to school to increase your pay may be rationalized as part of the job but the fact is that it is not a job requirement. His dedication shown in taking those classes is rewarded with higher pay.

Don't paint the whole profession with a broad brush.
I did not paint any profession with any brush. I am talking about pay rates.
$30K/yr starting is a very livable wage for most places in the country.

As far as having to spend their own money in the classroom, it's ludicrous to just say make a better budget and you won't have to spend your own money.
That is not what I said at all.
I really wish people would read what is written instead of trying to put their own spin on it so they can complain about what they imagined was said.

When you get a budget of $50 and you manage to do the job with $40, the way our bureaucrats work is you get your budget cut to $40. If you spend the $50 wastefully so you can't do the job correctly you get your budget increased.
Those who waste are rewarded, those who save are punished.

Here's what a medical interns get starting pay. $32K/yr.
Residents work 100hr weeks with 36hr shifts and they work the whole year.
But teachers are who's underpaid.

I'm done.
You all win. Everyone in the world should make $300,000,000,000 a year. Then we can all pay $2000 for a loaf of bread.