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View Full Version : Thrown for a loop!


Crycket
10-26-2008, 08:05 PM
My BFF really threw me for a loop the other day! About 5 years ago, I suggested that we start holding an annual halloween party. We got a group of her and my friends together who work well together, and have a big feast, exchange gifts etc....

This weekend while "rehearsing" for our wedding, she turns to me and says "so you will be hosting Halloween at your house this year...right?" and I said, "Why? We like having it here...." and she said..."but it is your party, we have just been hosting it at my house....now that you have a place, you can hold it at your house"

I was reeling for a bit, cause it was never a problem before...and her place is in the country, lots of room for swinging at pinatas or having a bonfire, so I was really confused...so after some prying, she broke down and admitted it was because her concious was bothering her....so I asked if she would come if I held it, and it seemed to be leaning towards no...

Now I must explain...and try to be as neutral as I can saying it too...

Back in the day her parents were Jahovahs witnesses...eventually both stopped practicing, but her sister who is 15 years older kept with the practice...and my BFF would go to meetings only when she was visiting her sister (on the other side of the country)...now that she is married, she has been finding her more spiritual side...and goes to meetings etc...

It is only this year that she has come forward to say such a thing...she has been married since 2002...and we have been having Halloween parties since about 2003...

Now the plan is to find another occasion to have get togethers....which should be no problem, and really, it is the friends, not the occasion that matters...I know that...but I can't help but feel a little hurt. Well...maybe crushed is the right word. She always enjoyed our Halloween parties...and now they are "bothering her concious"...I thought we had a really great little tradition starting...and it turns out it all has to change...

New traditions can be made...I don't know...I like the path we paved, and now it feels like there is a big backwards step. I am not worried about the status of our friendship...we have been tight ever since grade 8....(what is that 12?)

Thanks for letting me vent....

JustAFloridaGirl
10-26-2008, 10:05 PM
Wow. I mean, she's perfectly free to believe what she wants to believe but it really irks me that some organized religions completely distort the true meanings behind certain things.

I'm sure you know this, but Halloween has nothing to do with "Satan" yet so many people tout that it's his birthday or something. Halloween, or Hallowe'en, or All Hallow's Eve seems to have descended from a holiday in which it's believed that the dead are closer to us than any other time of the year. And by "the dead" it's meant Grandma, Grandpa, Great-Aunt Laurie, Cousin Susie...all the relatives and loved ones who have passed. The concept of Trick or Treating came from the tradition of leaving food out for the spirits who may pass by on this evening.

Basically, how is the concept of having an evening in which the dead "feel" closer to us, and being able to leave a little portion of food for them in order to honor them any different from the concept behind Memorial Day?

I'm sure if you explained it this way to her that it wouldn't change anything, people's religious beliefs are hard to sway. I'm sorry I can't really give you any advice on how to handle your hurt feelings, although I think it's wonderful that you are so open to finding another holiday to celebrate out of respect for her. It shows you're a great friend and anyone would be lucky to have someone that considerate in their life.

Crycket
10-26-2008, 11:33 PM
The thing is, she knows this....every year, we share soul cakes and tell the story of Halloween...

It drives me mad that it has never been a problem before...and she knew the JW rules before...just now they are sunk into her concious....*sigh*

saracidaltendencies
10-26-2008, 11:57 PM
:hug:

I wish I knew what to say that wouldn't turn this thread into a heated debate so I'm going to keep my mouth shut on this one, but, I hope you guys can figure something out.

miccisue
10-27-2008, 08:04 AM
One key thing caught my eye..."we can have another occasion to get together". Now, I will be the first to admit I am not up on the particulars of every religion that exists, but aren't Jehovah's Witnesses basically banned from celebrating anything?

My mom was a teacher, and she had a very few students who, I believe, were JW. Anytime they said the Pledge of Allegiance, they could not take part. Anytime anyone had a birthday and brought treats, they could not take part. Likewise any type of celebration. The only celebrating they are allowed to do is in connection with God and Jesus. But, I think even their Christmas celebrations are different....they celebrate the birth of Christ, but I don't believe any gifts of any sort are exchanged.

The only reason I'm bringing this up is that it may be harder than you think...and it may not just be Halloween that's affected. Of course, all this depends on whether I've got the right sect in my head as well, but if it is the JW I'm thinking of, they will not celebrate anything that puts the focus more on the holiday/person celebrated/etc. rather than the Lord. And, they play with things so that pretty much everything is eliminated, IMHO. For example, birthdays....one could look at it as the celebration of life granted by the Lord, but they take it as glorifying the person whose birthday is being celebrated.

If I have offended anyone, I apologize.

Lindsey H
10-27-2008, 09:08 AM
I have always felt sorry of JW kids (the adults too really). Since they cannot celebrate anything they really have nothing to look forward to. Celebrations and holidays make life fun.
We are conservative Christians and we celebrate Halloween. A lot of families at our church do not participate in Halloween but quiet a few do. My dh and I think it is a blast. We live in the downtown area of a small town and most everyone goes all out. Dh and I both like taking the boys trick-or-treating so we take turns so we can hand out candy too. I usually take one side of our street and dh takes the other.

Crycket
10-27-2008, 09:59 AM
I know...the last thing I wanted to do was to spark a debate...that was not the purpose *smiles*

I know how I feel on the matter, but long story short, my BFF is more important than any religion that could come between us, and I believe she feels the same way.... I have my feelings on it, but I keep them to myself, and vent DF wise (and here of course) to help me sort it all out in my head....

I hear what you are saying Miccisue...but I was thinking something arbitrary....for example, she suggested a pool party....(as she has a pool) that is not really celebrating anything...every year, I have our friends over for drinking games, but if she doesn't want to have part of alcohol anymore, then we can always make it a board game night....nothing being celebrated, we just have to modify....

The Halloween bit though...it makes me sad, cause I don't like X-mas (more to to with Retail and bowing to the all mighty dollar then it has to do with any god, but I am dead set against it...you will likely hear that rant in about a month or so *smiles*) I really do feel like someone cancelled X-mas. I really did enjoy spending halloween with my family of friends...and that is done...

I guess I can find another group to celebrate Halloween with...but still....

Jan in CA
10-27-2008, 01:06 PM
Let's be very careful here.. we have members of all religions and cultures in KH. :thumbsup:

This discussion was not intended to be about whether you believe in Halloween or not, but about how to handle Cryckets situation. :hug:

Crycket
10-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Let's be very careful here.. we have members of all religions and cultures in KH. :thumbsup:

This discussion was not intended to be about whether you believe in Halloween or not, but about how to handle Cryckets situation. :hug:

Yes....well said...for sure...it is just for the purpose of me venting some confusion and frustraition....

I myself am a very non confrontational person. I like to be neutral when I can and open minded. I do have strong feelings for certain things, but that never dismisses the fact that other ppl may feel strongly against me. I always will agree to disagree, as I believe there really is no right or wrong when it comes to opinion....I am a true Libra at heart....I like balance...and harmony, even if that means setting aside my own feelings to find it....*smiles*

The nice thing about this board is that we all believe in the same religion, and that is Knitting...*smiles* It truely does fits the requirements, it helps sooth mind and soul, it helps you to believe in yourself, it is there for you whenever you need it...etc....:cool:

auburnchick
10-27-2008, 01:35 PM
It sounds like you are mourning the loss of a fun get-together that includes this close friend. People change and adopt new things into their lives. It can be a difficult adjustment for those involved. I applaud her for her courage, and she did seem to show her concern for you by her hesitant approach to telling you.

I would do the party with the other friends and plan to go to lunch or dinner with this friend. You can still have friends over to play cards and such, and the best part is that you don't need a holiday to base it around.

:hug:

Sunshine's Mom
10-27-2008, 02:12 PM
Auburnchick, that's what I was thinking. The party doesn't have to stop on Halloween, your friend just admitted that she was uncomfortable hosting it and attending it. If that's how she feels I applaud her for admitting it to you and you for telling her it's okay. That's what friends do for each other. It is awfully confusing, though, to have thought that you knew her so well and there is a side to her that she's been keeping sort of secret.

Have your party and have another get together as well. Don't exclude her in any event (as I know you won't).

Aren't you getting married on Halloween this year?

auburnchick
10-27-2008, 02:17 PM
It is awfully confusing, though, to have thought that you knew her so well and there is a side to her that she's been keeping sort of secret.


You know...she probably knew how much the party meant to all involved, which could have been why she was so hesitant to act on her convictions.

Perhaps she wasn't sure how her beliefs would be taken. I am conservative, and I'm not a big fan of Halloween. I have always allowed my children to participate, guiding them toward non-gory costumes, and even handing out candy to those who come to my home. But others aren't always so understanding and accepting.

And the biggest thing is that she probably (maybe not) doesn't want to disappoint anybody. It must have eaten her up inside at the thought of choosing.

Love your friend and be joyful for the things you DO have in common.

Sunshine's Mom
10-27-2008, 02:24 PM
Yep, ditto.

It must have been tough for her to tell how she felt. Not wanting to disappoint was exactly what I meant. Thanks for clarifying, Auburnchick. You have a great way with words.

Plantgoddess+
10-27-2008, 07:16 PM
I have found that friendships don't always run smoothly and require flexibility. If you and your friends enjoy the Halloween celebration, I would host it myself and invite your friend who used to host. Don't be hurt or upset if she chooses not to attend. I'm sure there are many other things you 2 enjoy doing together.
I have friends I have known for over 30 years and we don't always enjoy the same things and adjust accordingly. We have also had arguments and disagreements, but being friends we don't hold grudges and go back to enjoying the things we have in common and supporting each other through life's ups and downs.

Crycket
10-27-2008, 07:38 PM
Aren't you getting married on Halloween this year?

Yep...and she is my matron of honour....*smiles*

I was just rolling it by the two girls to whom it would be effecting, but was not at the initial info grab....

They both agree that we should still get together, but one for sure was still behind a Halloween party....The nice thing is, all involved, are in my wedding party, so we will have a chance to roll things out before the wedding...*smiles*...

We all live about an hour or so away from each other...and see each other about 2 times a year (we may individually see more of us, but as a group, right now, only May and Oct)

Yes...a friendship is a give and take, but this is one of those times when a friend can really surprize you...

I think she is just taking it all more seriously now...as she has been happy for it every year before...*shrugs*

auburnchick
10-27-2008, 08:26 PM
I think she is just taking it all more seriously now...as she has been happy for it every year before...*shrugs*

That's the way it is any time we are convicted about something...whether it be not shopping at a store where we don't like how they treat their employees (I have boycotted Kmart for years) or religion-related issues.

Enjoy your party and good luck with your wedding! I hope you'll post pictures of the wedding!


:hug:

Knitting_Guy
10-27-2008, 10:40 PM
Thank your friend for being so honest and for hosting it for so long even if it made her feel less than happy, and host it at your place now. It sounds to me like your friend loves you enough to have done this all this time although it made her uncomfortable.

Be thankful to have such a friend. Loving friends are very hard to come by.

Debkcs
10-28-2008, 01:13 AM
Loving friends are very hard to come by.

So very, very true!

A friend of mine for many years is a Jehovah's Witness, her people didn't even celebrate one anothers birthdays. Really sad for the kids. She's more than made up for it with her children though, with her family, anything is an excuse for a party!

I think it's great that your friendship sounds strong enough to weather this.

vaknitter
10-28-2008, 09:49 AM
Isn't it funny how we continue to change as we age. I know this isn't a religious debate .... but I must say the dynamic of some of my relationships has changed as the result of friends pulling away from the church we were raised in b/c of other influences in their lives.
Continue to be her friend and the story may still evolve. Hold your Halloween celebration and then as others have suggested make time to have a pool party or game night with her.

Crycket
10-28-2008, 10:11 AM
That's the way it is any time we are convicted about something...whether it be not shopping at a store where we don't like how they treat their employees (I have boycotted Kmart for years) or religion-related issues.

Enjoy your party and good luck with your wedding! I hope you'll post pictures of the wedding!


:hug:

*smiles* Of course I will post pics. Not only that....but theknitter is coming as well...so if I don't get to it fast enough, she will be right on top of things! *smiles*

Yeah...I hear ya...things do change. And I have to admit, I am not the poster child for taking change well....

When BFF got married I threw outright fits. As a result, I missed out on a lot of the planning of her wedding. It is childish, when I looked back on it, but I really didn't know what was bothering me til the day of her wedding. I hugged her, and I said "I just haven't accepted that we are growing up...that is why I have been so difficult"...and of course, I cried, and she cried, and the world was right again.

I realized again how hard growing up and change was to me when back in Jun, another girl in my wedding party had a baby...I was much better at reigning in my feelings that time. It has been 4 years later, and I understood my feelings this time. But struggled with it just the same.

And again, Yesterday was the first official day I am living with DF. I am moved out of my parents house for the first time in 29 years. It is tough. I love being here, and I can't wait to be married, but I just feel like I have left a big chunk of what I love back at home....

Yes....things change, and we have to change with them...the more we fight it, the more it hurts when the change actually happens...

And right now...that is the epiffany....It isn't about Halloween and all that jazz....it is about change.....*smacks her self on the head* It has always been about change...

Thank you all....

auburnchick
10-28-2008, 10:32 AM
:hug:

Now...go get a cup of coffee/tea/hot chocolate, dial up your friend, and tell her all of this. She'll love you even more for that.

:hug:

Oh, and please give TheKnitter a hug for me at your wedding. She's a dear online buddy of mine.

Crycket
10-28-2008, 01:09 PM
:hug:

:hug:

Oh, and please give TheKnitter a hug for me at your wedding. She's a dear online buddy of mine.

Of course!

Crycket
10-28-2008, 11:09 PM
I talked to her today...and she said she was actually quite relieved and happy that we had started making alternate plans on the spot...

She was happy for the support and that we were all going to be so flexable...she wasn't looking forward to losing out on an occasion...but that she also felt she had to stick to her convictions.

It felt good....it was nice to talk about it openly...she said she has been studying for 2.5 years now...and that she is trying to break free of the "traditional" things, and says it is a very hard thing to do, as someone is always hauling you back in...

She also said there was no way she was going to miss my wedding, although she was a little uncomfortable...but she felt a lot better about it when I said that we could make it our last "hurrah" before switching out....

As a side note, I said we could always dress up on another occasion...for no reason except we are all getting together....and she was happy with that too....

I am much happier now that we had that chance to talk....

auburnchick
10-29-2008, 08:35 AM
WOW!

I am so glad y'all talked things through.

THAT is the sign of a mature friendship.

:hug: