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Marria
02-22-2009, 03:47 PM
Hi everyone,

I'd appreciate some perspective and advice on how to approach this situation.

My neighbor has two cats, one female, one male. I have seen them around since they were kittens and they are outside very frequently. I know for a fact the male isn't neutered because I checked, and I've also caught him spraying on my deck. (This really ticked me off but I don't blame the cat for doing what is natural behavior for them.)

They look well fed so it's not like the neighbor is totally neglecting them. And the male was hanging out with a radar dish collar on yesterday and a stitched up cut on his side. So obviously she is willing to get them vet care when needed. Still not fixed though.

Although I will say I have provided shelter for the male during bad weather.

Now I know indoor cats vs. outdoor cats is kind of a controversial topic. I personally believe that it's better to keep cats inside and all my cats have been indoor cats, and have gotten along fine. But, I don't want to raise that argument with her. I'd rather just convince her to get her cats fixed. (There's no way to tell with the female, but since the male isn't neutered, I can only believe that the female isn't spayed.)

Do any of you have any advice on how I might approach her? I live in an apartment complex, so I would prefer to stay on good terms with my neighbors. She's pretty young, so I would like to assume the best and chalk it up to lack of education about being a pet guardian (I don't like the term "owner") than just not caring.

stitchabit
02-22-2009, 04:24 PM
The cut on the cats side and the radar dish collar might just be the lead in. I wonder if the cat was fighting with another non-neutered male/female or how he got the cut.

I agree- I always kept my cats inside for their safety. She is taking them to the vet (wonder if the vet has brought up the idea of neutering- if not they should have).

I think I would try the safety angle-if your neighbor truly cares for the cats and wants them to be safe from harm she should have them neutered so that they stay closer to home etc...

tarrentella
02-22-2009, 04:57 PM
I would agree. Maybe ask if he had been in a fight and mention that getting toms neutered is a good way of reducing that sort of thing happening.
Perhaps ask if it was a fight over the female cat if she was in heat? just to sort of hint that both cats should be neautered?

Knitting_Guy
02-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Honest answer? None of your business. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it, they aren't your cats.

But, if you feel so strongly about it that you feel you must speak to her about her pets, I'd say the straightforward honest approach (with a bit of diplomacy) is always best.

Marria
02-22-2009, 05:35 PM
Honest answer? None of your business. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it, they aren't your cats.

But, if you feel so strongly about it that you feel you must speak to her about her pets, I'd say the straightforward honest approach (with a bit of diplomacy) is always best.

Well, the fact that the male was spraying all over my deck furniture does make it my business, in my opinion. But I truly do appreciate your point of view, Mason.

thepurplegg
02-22-2009, 05:36 PM
And I'd also say the fight is your way in. Getting him fixed will reduce his aggression. I'd say the female is a problem too. Cause if she isn't then your neighbor could have more cats later.

If there's a vet school anywhere near by sometimes they'll spay or neuter for cheap to let interns and students practice. Or even sometimes they have weekends where you can bring your cat in. Just a thought, in case cost is her issue. You'd have to ask a specific school about their policies though. =)

Lucy78green
02-22-2009, 05:40 PM
The only thing I would mention is that my male cat is neutered and he still sprays, although it probably doesn't smell as bad as if he wasn't neutered. He started doing it inside when he was threatened by other cats next door who used to gang up on him, but since they have moved he only does it on the bushes in our garden.
A friend of mine (bizarrely) only got her male cat fixed but not her female, until the second litter of kittens and then she realised that she should get the female done too.
Giving people advice on how to look after their pets is a touchy subject, maybe mentioning the spraying issue would be a good opener rather than starting off with the neutering issue right away.

Marria
02-22-2009, 05:40 PM
There are no vet schools here, but I am pretty sure that our local Humane Society does an income based spay neuter program, and there is a local vet that has low cost spay/neuter events. I think what troubles me most about this isn't the welfare of these two cats (not that this doesn't really concern me), but also thinking of all the kittens that will be born and will die if these cats aren't fixed.

Jan in CA
02-22-2009, 07:25 PM
I've read that male cats that are neutered before 6 mos sometimes stop spraying, but not always..and cats that are neutered after that tend to continue. Learned behavior maybe? Dunno.

I would ask conversationally why she didn't have her cat neutered and mention that cats that are neutered and spayed tend to live longer, healthier lives. If she choose not to because of costs you can maybe name some places that do it low cost, if it's for some other reason then there isn't much you can do about it unfortunately as it is her decision in the end.

You can maybe find a way to keep the cat away from your deck then from now on. :shrug:

bailsmom
02-22-2009, 11:11 PM
:hug: Bless your heart for caring so much for animals that aren't even in your care. :hug:

If it were me, I'd say something like "I was wondering if your male cat (insert name) was neutered as I caught him spraying on my back patio?" And then that could start up the conversation and you can get a feel of how she'll react and go from there. Just a thought I had, hope it helps. Good luck.

Marria
02-23-2009, 12:44 AM
:hug: Bless your heart for caring so much for animals that aren't even in your care. :hug:

If it were me, I'd say something like "I was wondering if your male cat (insert name) was neutered as I caught him spraying on my back patio?" And then that could start up the conversation and you can get a feel of how she'll react and go from there. Just a thought I had, hope it helps. Good luck.

I think this might be the way I do go. Thanks everyone for your advice. I am not pleased with the spraying, and some of you mentioned he may not stop, even if he's fixed. I think that's true. Spraying is a built in territory marking behavior, and actually female cats do it too. But, I am more concerned than anything about his well-being. The male is the one that seems to be left out the most often. I actually bought him an outdoor cat heating pad and left it out on my deck when it got really cold in the winter (and some of the strays in my neighborhood use it too), because I came out one morning and he was huddled up against the house trying to stay warm.

But still, I don't think the neighbor leaves him out because she doesn't care--I just don't think she thinks about it. Because he is well fed and looks healthy...

Jan in CA
02-23-2009, 12:51 AM
OMG! You live in ID and the cat was outside??! :help:

rachael72knitter
02-23-2009, 07:04 AM
Well, the fact that the male was spraying all over my deck furniture does make it my business, in my opinion. But I truly do appreciate your point of view, Mason.

Yep. In my opinion, that does make it your business. If a cat started spraying my stuff, I would be at their door immediately letting them know what the cat did, and the fact that it did it simply because it is not fixed. Also, when there are a bunch of kittens running around the property, it will become a problem. My neighbor's had unfixed cats, and next thing you knew we were overrun with kittens. They sat on my cars and coughed their furballs up on the hood of my car.

I am surprised your apt. doesn't have a problem with it, esp. since the spraying can kill landscaping.

cftwo
02-23-2009, 09:36 AM
I like Bailsmom's approach - it focuses on the main problem (spraying) without blaming the owner for bad care of the cat. Particularly since cats can spray after they're neutered.

mwhite
02-23-2009, 09:59 AM
It definitely is your business if the cats are on your turf! One of the problems we've found is that un-neutered/spayed cats outdoors are subject to a fatal disease known as feline AIDS and leukemia. The males contract it by fighting for females from infected males, then it's spread to females and their unborn kittens. After awhile, a whole colony has it. They live but it attacks their immune systems just like humans. It is NOT infectious to humans from cats. Most humane society organizations do have free clinics for neutering and spaying.

When we moved onto our property, a year ago, we found a whole colony of gorgeous, white cats! We thought, well, they've lived here a long time and we'll just feed them and allow them to live on. We've been taking them to the spay/neuter clinic and getting them fixed one at the time(three so far). However! All three were infected with feline AIDS and all three had feline leukemia and had to be put down. We will continue this regimen until we have either eliminated them or find some that are disease free. I IS my business!!!

AIDS INFO (http://cats.suite101.com/article.cfm/fiv_feline_aids)

A neighbor of ours has 2, male, un-neutered outdoor cats and she just refuses to have them fixed. I did tell her about the viruses and the infected colony that her cats eat and socialize with but she is oblivious! Since the clinic is free and her cats are outdoors and do eat on my porch, I WILL take them and have them fixed, too!

Mike
02-23-2009, 10:27 AM
I agree with Knitting Guy. The cat roaming is your business. The cat's sexual situation is not.

If you have a leash law for cats trap it and turn it in to the shelter. Hopefully after a few hundred dollars in bail they will get a clue. (But don't hold your breath, my sister's neighbor begged her to stop turning the cat in because it was too expensive. I guess she can't figure out to not letting the cat roam would be free.)
I don't even suggest trying to talk to them about it because cat people who let their cats roam have a way of justifying and rationalizing it that doesn't fit with any definition of common sense.
The fact the cat has a cut, which it probably got roaming, and is still roaming with a cone tells me they're not going to stop allowing it to roam.

Since fixing probably won't fix the spraying and may give the owner more of an excuse to let it roam you might compound your problem by focusing on something other than the problem.

It's not like people have never heard, "Have your pet spayed or neutered".

Debkcs
02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
Living in city or suburbs, we kept our cats in. Out in the wilds of Western Washington, we let them come in when they wanted to. Our neighbors cats wanted to come in when ours did, to our house, and they weren't neutered. When my husband went over and offered to do it himself . . . by this I mean HIMSELF, they took the two males to the vet and had the deed done. The last straw had been when they sprayed our new sofa!

I feel badly for animals that are allowed to run freely in built up areas, as there are all kinds of things that can happen to them. Our last five cats all lived to be over twenty, one of them was 23 when we took him to the vet, because he just couldn't 'be' anymore. We still miss Chester, he was amazing, and such a lover boy.

Hope this all works out for you, your neighbor might just need a gentle push to do the right thing.

LadyFirelyght
02-23-2009, 07:04 PM
It definitely is your business if the cats are on your turf! One of the problems we've found is that un-neutered/spayed cats outdoors are subject to a fatal disease known as feline AIDS and leukemia. The males contract it by fighting for females from infected males, then it's spread to females and their unborn kittens. After awhile, a whole colony has it. They live but it attacks their immune systems just like humans. It is NOT infectious to humans from cats. Most humane society organizations do have free clinics for neutering and spaying.

When we moved onto our property, a year ago, we found a whole colony of gorgeous, white cats! We thought, well, they've lived here a long time and we'll just feed them and allow them to live on. We've been taking them to the spay/neuter clinic and getting them fixed one at the time(three so far). However! All three were infected with feline AIDS and all three had feline leukemia and had to be put down. We will continue this regimen until we have either eliminated them or find some that are disease free. I IS my business!!!

AIDS INFO (http://cats.suite101.com/article.cfm/fiv_feline_aids)

A neighbor of ours has 2, male, un-neutered outdoor cats and she just refuses to have them fixed. I did tell her about the viruses and the infected colony that her cats eat and socialize with but she is oblivious! Since the clinic is free and her cats are outdoors and do eat on my porch, I WILL take them and have them fixed, too!
We had to put our last cat, Baby Joe, to sleep after he began experiencing some very nasty consequences of FIV. We don't let our current cats roam anymore. We let them outside, but only in our yard under supervision (literally walking around the yard with them) or in their super-sized dog crate. We had no idea about the kinds of things cats can get if left to roam. The results can be very, very tragic.

Marria
02-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Thank you everyone!

Jan--yes, he was stuck out in the freezing cold.

mwhite--the cat I have now is an indoor cat only & she was a rescue from a feral colony that a friend of mine began trapping in Olympia, Washington. Most of the cats were euthanized and most of them had FIV and/or Feline Leukemia. My cat was trapped as a kitten and was sick. I had her tested for these illnesses and she was negative, so I paid to have her treated for her other health problems (worms, upper respiratory infection, ear mites, fleas and an eye infection). She has repaid me with loyalty and love and affection. I wish I could save them all.

Mike--I appreciate your opinion although I have to disagree with you to an extent. I realize I can't force my neighbor to fix her pets, and that a lot of people are going to rationalize their way around it, but that doesn't mean I won't try to educate people. I have a major soft spot for critters (my husband says it's too soft), and with statistics like these (http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/pet_overpopulation_and_ownership_statistics/the_crisis_of_pet_overpopulation.html) I have to try. I don't consider taking the cats to the shelter an option. We do have a no-kill shelter in the area, but there was a recent hoarding case, and they are overfilled, and the other shelter isn't no-kill. I don't want these cats put down if it can at all be avoided.

Deb--If I lived out in the boonies, I might let my cats out, but even then you got wild critters and diseases. My cat is perfectly happy being inside. (In fact, she did get out once, and went about 15 feet from the back door and FREAKED. She was so frightened. I went and picked her up to carry her in and she was shaking. Since then, when we open the door, she runs and hides under a chair until it's closed.)

Knitting_Guy
02-23-2009, 10:45 PM
I agree with Knitting Guy. The cat roaming is your business. The cat's sexual situation is not.
Wow, I'm just glad someone actually got my point.

Sandi
02-23-2009, 10:49 PM
I have to assume that you live somewhere that it's ok, for them, to be outside. Spayed/neutered or not. Where I live, there is actually a bylaw preventing people from letting their cats roam free.
Which unfortunatly dosen't stop them all.
Maybe some pamphlets from your local SPCA, tucked into her mailbox, may help. Or find out if there is a program in place to help cover the cost of it. I think allot of people don't have it done because of the cost.
Which is a sad thing......

And if the male is spraying your deck furniture, then it is your business!

lelvsdgs
02-23-2009, 10:53 PM
Wow, I'm just glad someone actually got my point. I got the point and agree. Cats, if let outside will roam, it's their nature. And they will spray. It is sad that there are so many pet owners out there that don't spay or neuter their animals but it is their choice.

lelvsdgs
02-23-2009, 10:56 PM
I have to assume that you live somewhere that it's ok, for them, to be outside. Spayed/neutered or not. Where I live, there is actually a bylaw preventing people from letting their cats roam free.
Which unfortunatly dosen't stop them all.
Maybe some pamphlets from your local SPCA, tucked into her mailbox, may help. Or find out if there is a program in place to help cover the cost of it. I think allot of people don't have it done because of the cost.
Which is a sad thing......

And if the male is spraying your deck furniture, then it is your business!
I think more and more communities are passing laws both about this and about mandatory spaying and neutering animals. They tried to pass a law here that made every pet in the city limits subject to mandatory spaying or neutering unless owned by a licensed and certified breeder. They are trying to cut down on strays. It wasn't successful but they did try.

Mike
02-24-2009, 02:25 AM
Mike--I appreciate your opinion although I have to disagree with you to an extent. I realize I can't force my neighbor to fix her pets, and that a lot of people are going to rationalize their way around it, but that doesn't mean I won't try to educate people. I have a major soft spot for critters (my husband says it's too soft), and with statistics like these (http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/pet_overpopulation_and_ownership_statistics/the_crisis_of_pet_overpopulation.html) I have to try. I don't consider taking the cats to the shelter an option. We do have a no-kill shelter in the area, but there was a recent hoarding case, and they are overfilled, and the other shelter isn't no-kill. I don't want these cats put down if it can at all be avoided.

If you have room for another cat you could tell the shelter to call you if/when it comes time to put it down and you'll take it.

I just think if you manage to get your spay/neuter agenda across you're going to make your roaming problems worse, not better.
I know dog people (who don't have the long history of no leash laws helping them rationalize) who use being fixed as an excuse to let them roam.
Fixing doesn't take away the disease issues and roaming is caused by someone letting them roam not whether the animals are fixed.

I also imagine that your spay/neuter agenda will be met with the same deaf ears it's met with when it's spread over the TV 20 times a day.

Maybe if you talk to them about the roaming the spraying will be brought up and then you can suggest that fixing may tone that down.

Luvmyrottnboy
02-24-2009, 11:20 AM
Honest answer? None of your business. Sorry, that's just how I feel about it, they aren't your cats.

But, if you feel so strongly about it that you feel you must speak to her about her pets, I'd say the straightforward honest approach (with a bit of diplomacy) is always best.

I can't believe it but I disagree with you! Vehemently! :)

The cat is spraying on her deck. I LOVE cats, I have one, a beautiful NEUTERED male who stays indoors. But spraying the neighborhood is just nasty and it is a natural male cat thing to do.

I also am very vocal about neutering cats and dogs to cut down on the stray population. Neutering is the right and humane thing to do.

And I'll tell ANYBODY that!:) This is one cause that is everybody's business IMHO.

Cynamar
02-24-2009, 01:03 PM
I don't want to sound mean, but I just don't think you should have pets if you can't keep them home. I don't think I should have to clean up after other folks' pets in my yard or bring my pet in from her yard when another pet comes over and barks at her. When my daughter was little a neighbor's dog would come into my grandparents yard and growl at her. They weren't in the city limits so nobody would do anything about it and the owners didn't care. I've known people whose pets were attacked and even killed in their own yards. There's a chow that lives a couple of doors down that comes to my yard all the time. My dog is tiny and eats premium food so there is nothing to really clean up but I have cow patties all over the dang yard because of that one. You should keep your pets from being a nuisance to your neighbors or don't have pets.

Mike
02-24-2009, 02:18 PM
I don't want to sound mean, but I just don't think you should have pets if you can't keep them home. I don't think I should have to clean up after other folks' pets in my yard or bring my pet in from her yard when another pet comes over and barks at her. When my daughter was little a neighbor's dog would come into my grandparents yard and growl at her. They weren't in the city limits so nobody would do anything about it and the owners didn't care. I've known people whose pets were attacked and even killed in their own yards. There's a chow that lives a couple of doors down that comes to my yard all the time. My dog is tiny and eats premium food so there is nothing to really clean up but I have cow patties all over the dang yard because of that one. You should keep your pets from being a nuisance to your neighbors or don't have pets.

I'm with you.
Keep the animals home and whether they're fixed or not becomes a non-issue. Them carrying diseases becomes a non-issue. Them marking territory becomes a non-issue.
I've had a lot of dogs that weren't fixed and have produced zero puppies. They didn't reproduce because I kept them home.
The one cat I had was never outside off a leash.

Seems to me that the big push for fixing is an improper repair for the real problem, irresponsibility.

lelvsdgs
02-25-2009, 01:13 AM
I don't want to sound mean, but I just don't think you should have pets if you can't keep them home. I don't think I should have to clean up after other folks' pets in my yard or bring my pet in from her yard when another pet comes over and barks at her. When my daughter was little a neighbor's dog would come into my grandparents yard and growl at her. They weren't in the city limits so nobody would do anything about it and the owners didn't care. I've known people whose pets were attacked and even killed in their own yards. There's a chow that lives a couple of doors down that comes to my yard all the time. My dog is tiny and eats premium food so there is nothing to really clean up but I have cow patties all over the dang yard because of that one. You should keep your pets from being a nuisance to your neighbors or don't have pets.
I agree. It is terrible to have to deal with other people's out of control animals. There is a big black dog that appears in my fenced back yard. He is friendly but I don't really want him in my yard. The neighbors let all their animals, dogs and cats roam. We live on a busy street and someday, one of them is going to be killed.

Knitting_Guy
02-28-2009, 10:13 AM
I can't believe it but I disagree with you! Vehemently! :)

The cat is spraying on her deck. I LOVE cats, I have one, a beautiful NEUTERED male who stays indoors. But spraying the neighborhood is just nasty and it is a natural male cat thing to do.

I also am very vocal about neutering cats and dogs to cut down on the stray population. Neutering is the right and humane thing to do.

And I'll tell ANYBODY that!:) This is one cause that is everybody's business IMHO.

Of course the animal's spraying on her property is her business. The owner of the animal is responsible for that. But as already mentioned, neutering at this point probably won't stop that. I was referring more to the neutering than the roaming or spraying.

I agree that people should neuter their animals and they most certainly should keep them under control, that's basic responsibility, but whether they choose to neuter them or not is their business unless a local law says otherwise.

If the spraying is the problem, then that's what should be discussed, the neutering is irrelevant to the issue.

Songbirdy
02-28-2009, 11:52 AM
this is such a touchy issue.

I know when we lived out in the country, we let our dog roam freely. He was 'fixed' and the nearest neighbour was a 15 minute walk away. When we moved to the city after we owned him for 8 years, I made sure I found another family to adopt him because I felt it would be cruel to chain him up. That being said, while he did roam, 90 % of the time he was on our property. We never had reports of him being bad, and if we had we'd have responded.

I know we once had a cyclist who liked to bike at 3 a.m. (I dunno why) complain that our dog would chase him, so we kept him indoors at night from that point on.

Now we have a small (about the size of some people's cat) dog, and he is kept on leash at all times that he is out doors unless we are at the dog park.


But our cat (that was with us on the farm), is fixed but is allowed to roam in the summer time. I have not had someone complain about that, but we keep him in all winter if we can. He likes it outside.

Anyhow, we had 4 different neighbours show up asking if "Nick" was okay because they had not seen him for a long time.

To me, dogs and cats were originally wild creatures and it is their nature to roam and be free. I find it highly cruel to keep them locked up. Especially if they don't have a chance to exercise otherwise. We are especially good at walking our Bischon Poodle, but he's tiny so 4 walks a day around the block make him happy.

I would never keep my kids inside 24 hours a day, they need the sunshine.

That beings said I don't condone poor animal care. I'm in favour 'fixing' the animals just to control population. My pets are also micro-chipped, mainly because the cat wouldn't wear a collar [but did, ironically, once we got the little dog].

I agree that the issue is with the spraying and the pet being outdoors on cold nights. That is something you have legal rights to pursue.

But if it was my cat Nick, I'd tell you that often, despite our best efforts, he gets out and refuses to come in and after 12 p.m. I go to bed even though he's still out and I've called for him every 15 mins before that! They are independent creatures!

thecatsmother
03-02-2009, 10:42 AM
I have 2 indoor/outdoor cats,yes I know all the arguments about keeping cats indoors only, but my cats don't understand any of that, they just love to be out in my garden hiding among the plants and flowers.They are older now and their outdoor jaunts have lessened considerably and I monitor them when they are outside. Having said all that if ever I got a kitten his life would not include going outside but when taking in strays if is very difficult to lock them up from the pleasures of the great outdoors.
I believe all companion animals should be netured and I think it is everyone's business to try and educate other folk about this,same as it's everyone's business if you see an animal or a child being beaten up.I have many strays come into my yard and most are neutered,for the others I would take every opportunity to speak with the owners to try and educate them.I would(and have in the past)offered to help with the cost or to help find a less expensive vet service
About the spraying,that is like the animal newspaper,my guys go out and sniff all around,then they know who was there,when,where he lives and maybe even his name LOL and then they come in and report it all to me.

dustinac
03-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Of course the animal's spraying on her property is her business. The owner of the animal is responsible for that. But as already mentioned, neutering at this point probably won't stop that. I was referring more to the neutering than the roaming or spraying.

I agree that people should neuter their animals and they most certainly should keep them under control, that's basic responsibility, but whether they choose to neuter them or not is their business unless a local law says otherwise.

If the spraying is the problem, then that's what should be discussed, the neutering is irrelevant to the issue.

I agree. I think you should talk to her about the spraying issues but as far as the neutering that is up to her, it is best for them but still...she might know that and still not want to have him neutered.

I have 2 cats and we try to keep them inside but I tell ya they are fast and tricky trying to get out the door. When you have small kids coming in and out well they do get out, unless I put them up in a room all day in the summer and I don't wanna do that.

ecb
03-02-2009, 07:16 PM
I have a neighbor who has a permanently painted "free Kittens" that they put out 3-4 times a year
They keep their cat inside during very cold months, but they keep the kittens and mothers outside in a shed with litter boxes and bedding for spring, summer and fall as soon as the kittens can roam and find mama again
animal welfare has been there a few times, and the family believes it is animal cruelty to fix a cat
they do get VERY offended when people approach them about it
in october last year I had 4 young cats move into my garage, 3 died, animal control would not come get them (He believed they were adopted by me) I got on in a farm setting

it sucked

hartleystudio
03-03-2009, 10:32 PM
I haven't read this entire thread but I do want to say that we got our male cat neutered at 6 months, or whenever you're supposed to (it was a long time ago) and he still looks unneutered. I don't want to get too graphic but, ahem, he still has some fuzzy guys back there. Maybe the male is neutered and he still looks intact? Now, our cat doesn't spray so that may be an indication that he's not neutered.

Oscar lived inside for years and had the fat life until our son was born with severe asthma and he has had to live outside since. He is in my heated studio in the winter and out pretty much all summer. He won't come inside in the summer, he loves it outside.

Anyway, just my two cents on cat guy stuff!!! :roflhard:

Oh yeah, our vet says that you can tell if a female is neutered because they put a little nick in their ear, maybe they do the same with the males? I never looked at Oscar so I don't know.....

HollyP
03-04-2009, 12:26 AM
I am pretty sure they only nick the ears of ferals for identification. That way they don't try to spay or neuter the same cat twice.
My cats are both neutered one is male the other is female and neither have nicked ears. My boy is the same way he still looks somewhat intact, but I am very sure he isn't!

hartleystudio
03-04-2009, 09:15 AM
They nicked my female's ear even though she was indoor at the time. I suppose all vets do things differently. She is in kitty heaven now, lived to be 18! Catching mice right up to the end. My cats were so good at catching animals two summers ago that I was afraid they were going to start working together and bring home a deer!!! Oscar,the surviving male, isn't as motivated without his hunting companion so I'm not having to clean up his "presents" as often!

bailsmom
03-04-2009, 11:40 AM
I haven't read this entire thread but I do want to say that we got our male cat neutered at 6 months, or whenever you're supposed to (it was a long time ago) and he still looks unneutered. I don't want to get too graphic but, ahem, he still has some fuzzy guys back there. Maybe the male is neutered and he still looks intact? Now, our cat doesn't spray so that may be an indication that he's not neutered.......
Anyway, just my two cents on cat guy stuff!!! :roflhard:

:roflhard: I'm sorry but that is too funny. :roflhard:

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
03-06-2009, 10:33 AM
you also made a huge mistake in feeding the cat. Once they know where to find food, they start seeing it as THEIR territory. We had a male (very malnourished) wander into our back yard 2 years ago. i made the mistake of giving him water and he WON'T leave. he also can't be inside as he's highly destructive (i'm tired of cleaning cat feces out of my basement and he keeps spraying on my house, porch, and patio furniture). I HAD called animal control and was told "not part of my job description" and the animal shelters said they were "full". You need to check the laws carefully because I'm not sure if it's the national dept. of agriculture, but here in NYS they're considered "wild animals" and animal control doesn't deal with them.

I also have issues with strays thanks to my twit neighbor across the street... she's part of the catch/spay and neuter/release program through the SPCA so she leaves lots of catfood out, thus encouraging the strays to come around who fight with the male that thinks our house is his home.

I also have 5 females inside (i had planned for 3 max, dh had other ideas) and they spray whenever the male's inside. no, they're not fixed but i never thought i had to since they are strictly indoor cats.

Kattra
03-16-2009, 06:03 AM
I have three cats and I cept them in tell they where fixed... But I am as gilty of letting them rome as any one... My home is not a cat person... I will not ad the the number of strays in the world.. I love my cats I got them fixed and I skip meels twice a year so they can have there shots.

But they get cranky if they don't get out side time and I will not have them trapped inside and tairing each other to bits.

Jan in CA
03-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I have literally not been without a cat in over 30 yrs. In my experience cats that are kept indoors from the beginning have absolutely NO problems staying indoors.

thecatsmother
03-16-2009, 12:21 PM
I completely agree with you Jan...the operative words being "from the begining", all of my guys have been strays who came from the big bad outside.
Anyone considering getting a kitten I would strongly encourage keeping it indoors.

Arielluria
03-16-2009, 01:40 PM
I am glad you are responsible about your cats, and what you said about strays is true, they ARE hard to keep at home. The most important thing is to make sure they are neutered so they don't make more strays and it also tends to keep them close to home and not go wandering into traffic where they will be run over, etc.

I work with animal rescues, have rescued all types of dogs and cats (as well as wildlife) off streets, etc. I'm a big proponent of neutering too and many communities will have low-cost spay and neutering programs. Just calling the nearest SPCA will probably help direct someone to one of those.

The best example I ever saw for neutering an animal was by Victoria Stillwell on It's Me Or The Dog when she had a client that was wanting to eventually breed her dog. She had a bag full of 2 different colored balls and poured them all out on the ground. The balls represented the dogs' offspring after 3 years. I'm working off memory here, and I'm sure my numbers aren't all correct but it seems the total was about 1000 offspring in that short period of time.

The bag was composed of about 75% of blue balls and 25% yellow. The 75% were the ones which would end up euthanized, the 25% were ones which would end up living to old age (though you never know if they were necessarily well-treated or not - but didn't end up euthanized in a shelter).

This is why I work with rescues. I really don't have the stomach to get TOO involved, I just can't get all the horrible cases we come across out of my mind. I don't think I could sleep at night if I did. I don't understand how people can mistreat any living thing! I help the rescues as much as I can by making things for them to sell or auction, working on their web sites etc.

Additionally I stress to EVERYONE to adopt an adult dog or cat if they are looking for one. Go to WWW.PETFINDER.COM (http://www.petfinder.com) and search within your own zip code for animals in rescue organizations or shelters which meet your criteria. Adult and rescued animals are great because you already get one which is neutered or spayed, their personality is formed so you KNOW you're not getting one which is too active (or not enough) for your family. Potty training is done ;), etc. etc. etc. And don't forget that mixed breeds are healthier than purebreds, but PLEASE don't go for those designer dogs, most of them come from puppymills or backyard breeders.

Well, I'll get off my soapbox now. Here's a picture of Peanut, our first foster. He was given up to a shelter because the family had a baby! Good reason huh?!? My dogs ARE my babies, if I had one more (human baby, that is), there's now ay I would get rid of any of them unless they were dangerous. Peanut's a loving and the snuggliest dog I have. Rescues seem to know they've been saved and love you for life!

(The other dog in the collage is Lucky, our 2nd foster. He got an awesome home!)..........and they both appreciate my knitting. :teehee:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/355150581_857f7a0fa2.jpg

dustinac
03-17-2009, 08:43 AM
I agree if you have a kitten born indoors and kept indoors it's easier to keep them indoors...

Gideon though was found in a box by my brother, it was near the dumpster all shut up and for some reason my brother decided to go check out the box...why wasn't it tossed in the dumpster for the trash guy the next morning, and he found Gideon and another cat. He was still young but a few months old so I have always fought with him to keep him inside. Yesterday it was nice so I had the windows open he just paced and meowed from one window to the next, to the door, back to the window...last year he tore a hole in my screen to get out of it and Bella followed him, then she came back in with a mole that was still alive!

Bella was born in a barn and the lady over heard me telling mom that I'd like to get another kitten, she stopped us (we were at a small town thing) and said I have one that if you don't take is going to the shelter...so dad got her for me and I've fought with her to keep her inside...

They are so sneaky, you will think they are no where around but as soon as they hear the door they are beside you trying to get out, we even have bells on them but they still can slip past us...and with kids running in and out the cats tend to be faster. I do have the rule knock on the door before you enter so I can grab the cats, but when something exciting happens they tend to forget. :teehee:

When they do get out they don't travel far but stay alert enough for you not to catch them...they are both spayed/neutered, usually we catch them by trying to get them to play with something or I go pretend to be busy on the porch and they come a snooping.

Although right before Thanksgiving Gideon got out on us and we couldn't catch him, and when he wasn't at the door by nightfall I knew something was wrong, he doesn't miss meals and is to big of a chicken to stay out all night, he was missing for a few days and I was beside myself...the day after Thanksgiving JD was walking up our driveway and there sat Gideon on the porch, he smelled of a wood burner stove and to this day I think someone had him, even though I went door to door daily, had it broadcast everywhere about him, and I still wonder if someone just got tired of me banging on their door about him so they let him go.

I know others that feel like cats/dogs should be kept outdoors, they still take the pet to the vet and have them spayed/neutered but they feel a pet should only come inside for awhile and then back outside. I might not agree with that but then some don't agree with me for keeping them inside all the time :teehee:

LilHuskiesFootBallMom
03-17-2009, 09:36 AM
i was reading an article in the newspaper yesterday about how our local shelters are full because people are dumping their pets due to 'financial hardship'. They claim that they can't take care of them anymore (bs for the most part... given the number of strays disappearing from my neighborhood i have a feeling some are cleaning out their garage... I came home at 4 am this morning after picking my dh up at work and there was a NEW cat that i havent' seen before in my garage the ballsy little twit). I get it if they have to move to a "no pets allowed" situation but explain to me why when i called 2 years ago because Stooge (i call him stooge, dh calls him buddy, the kids call him Thor) collapsed in my backyard (he was dumped in our neighborhood) and they refused to take him yet others can go and claim financial hardship and they'll take them?