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Lisa R.
08-13-2009, 09:40 PM
What is the ethical way to manage patterns in library books? Are you "required" to buy the book if you want to use the patterns? Must you finish the project by the time the book is due? How do you all handle knitting from library books?

bambi
08-13-2009, 10:32 PM
I'm sure that if you got a library book and liked a pattern, you could photocopy that pattern for your personal use. You couldn't produce objects to sell or publish the pattern. If you liked all the patterns, you could buy a copy. Amazon has used copies for amazing deals.

I don't have that problem, sadly. My whole library system has about 5 knitting books. :(

Bambi

suzeeq
08-13-2009, 11:30 PM
Library books are subject to 'fair use' in copyright law. Meaning you can make copies of pages/patterns for your own use as long as it isn't a substantial majority of the book.

Jan in CA
08-13-2009, 11:46 PM
I get library books all the time. I just make a copy for myself of the pattern or two that I like. I don't like to buy a book if I don't like most of the patterns.

suzeeq
08-14-2009, 12:29 AM
I should have added that I do this too. Most books only have a pattern or 3 I'm interested in, so I get them from the library and make a copy. Magazines too; I've requested a current copy of a magazine from another branch because I wanted a pattern out of it and they verified which page numbers/pattern I wanted and copied them for me (in color!) and sent them to my branch.

Jan in CA
08-14-2009, 02:16 PM
II've requested a current copy of a magazine from another branch because I wanted a pattern out of it and they verified which page numbers/pattern I wanted and copied them for me (in color!) and sent them to my branch.

Wow, that's cool!

Lisa R.
08-14-2009, 04:35 PM
Thanks, Ladies! That's really what I was thinking of doing, but didn't want to be unethical about it. I just am doing the one pattern, and didn't want to spend $18 +S&H for the pattern!

kellyh57
08-16-2009, 03:38 PM
I think library knitting books are just like any other book. I don't feel guilty for reading a whole novel from the library, using biographies for reference for school work, nor do I feel it's wrong to use the entire book for knitting from. If it's something I may want to reference in the future or I'll need to copy the whole thing, then it's not worth it to keep checking it out or copying that much. If I check out a book and don't like it, I'm out nothing as opposed to buying a dud. I love the library for that aspect! I'm lucky enough that we have a huge library system and can get books transferred or be put on a waiting list for popular stuff.

Gertie
08-16-2009, 04:27 PM
Our library system has a wonderful selection of knitting books. If yours doesn't have what you need, are they set up in the interloan system? I've used it before.

Something else to consider about photocopying - we can not mark up the original. :fingerwag: So we copy & mark it up. Our library's machines charge only 10 cents per copy. So why do I find patterns cut out from the books?!!! :hair: It's selfish, illegal, a waste of our hard-earned taxpayer dollars & downright rude. :tap:

Lisa R.
08-17-2009, 01:47 PM
Our library system has a wonderful selection of knitting books. If yours doesn't have what you need, are they set up in the interloan system? I've used it before.

Something else to consider about photocopying - we can not mark up the original. :fingerwag: So we copy & mark it up. Our library's machines charge only 10 cents per copy. So why do I find patterns cut out from the books?!!! :hair: It's selfish, illegal, a waste of our hard-earned taxpayer dollars & downright rude. :tap:

You're kidding! :shock: There's no excuse for that!

Lighting57
08-17-2009, 02:22 PM
I use my library all the time for the same reasons as mentioned above. I copy patterns I think I will make for myself. If I like the book and think that I'll use a lot of the patterns, I then order one on line from Amazon or Ebay.

My question is:
If we all agree that it is ok to copy a pattern (not the whole book) from a book or magazine we pick up at the library (to use for ourself, not to make and mass produce), why are people reluctant to make or email a copy of a pattern to someone that post a request for one here on this or any other board?

Please, I'm not trying to start an argument. I understand copyright law, etc. I was just wondering what makes it alright from one direction and not acceptable from other?

Jan in CA
08-17-2009, 02:40 PM
My question is:
If we all agree that it is ok to copy a pattern (not the whole book) from a book or magazine we pick up at the library (to use for ourself, not to make and mass produce), why are people reluctant to make or email a copy of a pattern to someone that post a request for one here on this or any other board?


You answered your own question - Because the copyright rules generally state that it's okay to make ONE copy for yourself only. There are designers that watch forums and there have been instances where we've had problems. I know it sounds nitpicky, but we have to follow the rules.

hartleystudio
08-17-2009, 04:35 PM
I love using the library for knitting books but most of them have been stolen by the time I get to check them out. The librarian says they can't keep knitting books of cookbooks very long before they disappear. Isn't that sad? I have such a small house that, unless there are several things I want to knit out of a book, I don't have room for all those books! So, I request 5 books hoping to get one!!

thecatsmother
08-17-2009, 05:34 PM
I've only recently discovered the elibrary where I can go online and look at the books from all the county libraries, and put on hold the ones I like.I've been revelling in knitting and crochet books and there is usually only one or two patterns I'm interested in,but I took out a Doris Chan crochet book....OMG every page I turned" I'll have to copy that and that" I was up to 6 patterns(LOL) I just said to DH to order the book for me online......and now it's mine and I want to make every pattern.......libraries can be dangerous places!!!

suzeeq
08-17-2009, 05:38 PM
If we all agree that it is ok to copy a pattern (not the whole book) from a book or magazine we pick up at the library (to use for ourself, not to make and mass produce), why are people reluctant to make or email a copy of a pattern to someone that post a request for one here on this or any other board?

I mentioned earlier that libraries fall under the 'fair use' part of copyright law. That recognizes that people aren't always able to buy a copy of a book or magazine, but should they wish to have a portion of it for reference, they can make a copy of it for their use, as long as it isn't a substantial part of the whole item. A copy owned by an individual does not fall under this consideration.

Gertie
08-17-2009, 10:02 PM
I love using the library for knitting books but most of them have been stolen by the time I get to check them out. The librarian says they can't keep knitting books of cookbooks very long before they disappear. Isn't that sad? I have such a small house that, unless there are several things I want to knit out of a book, I don't have room for all those books! So, I request 5 books hoping to get one!!

Is your library in an interloan system? It's helped me before.

Gertie
08-17-2009, 10:04 PM
You're kidding! :shock: There's no excuse for that!

Really!! :gah:

kellyh57
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Do you report books that have been cut up? The library should keep track of who has checked out the book and be able to track down the culprit. If you are adamant about doing it every time you see a destroyed book, eventually, they'll be able to figure it out.

Gertie
08-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Do you report books that have been cut up? The library should keep track of who has checked out the book and be able to track down the culprit. If you are adamant about doing it every time you see a destroyed book, eventually, they'll be able to figure it out.

Yes I do report the crime. Don't know how much good it does, cause there's always the burden of proof...

Years ago there was a computer disk missing. It wasn't caught when I checked out the book. Fortunately, we have a good friend at the library who vouched for me. I imagine that recipes get clipped out, too.

Chrysee
08-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Do you report books that have been cut up? The library should keep track of who has checked out the book and be able to track down the culprit. If you are adamant about doing it every time you see a destroyed book, eventually, they'll be able to figure it out.

I would think if I were going to steal something out of a library book I would do so at the library without checking the item out. At least, that seems the sneakiest option. No connection to you at all then.

That's why when I worked at an academic library, we did not necessarily go after the last person who checked out an item if it was damaged.

kellyh57
08-19-2009, 10:57 AM
I would think if I were going to steal something out of a library book I would do so at the library without checking the item out. At least, that seems the sneakiest option. No connection to you at all then.

That's why when I worked at an academic library, we did not necessarily go after the last person who checked out an item if it was damaged.

I didn't think about that. I was just thinking that if they saw a bunch of books that had been checked out to a particular person coming up with missing pages, they could take action. I know I sure wouldn't want to be the person that checked out a book before/after someone cut it up and have to take the blame! I always take things up to the front in stores that are damaged too. (You would not believe how many people steal ball-bands from yarn for the free pattern! They could just go to the website for it most of the time too-DUH!)