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boyforpele13 11-20-2010 05:22 PM

pattern resize question
I still haven't attached sleeves before, so this might be a silly question.

I started a sweater and it came out too big but I liked the gauge so I'm making a size medium instead of an XL, but what I'm doing is still following the length measurements for the XL, but keeping everything else with the medium. I am concerned now that the sleeves won't set in properly, though, when I get to that point, and wondering if I need to make a larger size sleeve to accommodate the larger armhole (the next size up sleeve ends with 3 sts more at the seaming point, or 6 sts more for the next size, gauge is 3-1/2 sts to inch.) The medium has you work the armhole until it's 9-1/2 inches, but I worked it to 10-1/4 inches according to the XL, so we're only talking 3/4 of an inch (but on each side, I guess?) so wasn't sure if that would line up to the armhole opening still. (I will do the same bind off numbers on the sleeves I did for the armhole shaping, at least that part I know will be okay :-P) In theory, I figure I should because if the armhole is 10-1/4 inches on front and back, that's 20-1/2 inches, so if I multiple my gauge by 20-1/2, that comes to 71.75 total for seaming, but need to add 10 to that for the shaping bind off, so that would be 82 and the size XL sleeve ends with 83...... Is that how that works, though? It sounds logical, just haven't done this before....


suzeeq 11-20-2010 06:16 PM

You're correct to make the length the same as for the XL, so follow those measurements for the sleeve too. Use the same armhole shaping you did for the body, just make sure you do the sleeve cap to 10" too. You don't have to double the measurement.

boyforpele13 11-20-2010 06:33 PM

Thank you! I just want to make sure I understand, though, you're saying don't do the wider sleeve cap to match the 10-1/4 or do? The sleeve is just straight garter, CO X stitches, do increases until it's X stitches, work until it's X inches long, so what I'm unsure on is the width of the sleeve cap, do I need to make that the XL width to match the armholes since I made them longer? The armhole shaping was just BO x sts at beginning of next 2 rows, that's it, so the sleeve ends with BO X sts at beginning of next 2 rows and bind off.

suzeeq 11-20-2010 06:56 PM

The armhole length is 10", so you work the length of the sleeve cap to match that from the underarm. The bound off sts at the underarm should be the same number as you bind off for the front and back, the stitches that are left determines the width, and if you used the number for the Med, then they should be the right size. There should be more rows after BO at the beg of next 2 rows for the underarm. The sleeve doesn't end there does it?

Is the pattern online? Either you're misunderstanding the pattern or it's written differently than normal. Even a picture would be useful.

boyforpele13 11-21-2010 01:43 AM

Thanks again. I think I'm just making it more complicated (as usual) It's the same sweater as you were helping me with the neck edge decreases for, from a book, so can't post pattern:

Basically my concern is that since the armhole length is 10-1/4 inches, as instructed for the size XL, if I follow the stitch count for the medium sleeve, then the width of the sleeve at the cap will not be wide enough to cover the added length of the armholes.

In other words, if I'm understanding the seaming correctly, if the armhole is 10-1/4 inches long and I'm getting 3-1/2 sts to the inch, that's approximately 36 stitches long on both front and back (of course it's rows, but to try to get an idea for the sleeves) so, the real question is: doesn't the final stitch count at the sleeve cap need to be close to 72 inches in order to match the longer armhole? If I follow the medium sleeve instructions, after matching the bind offs to the armhole shaping, I will wind up with 67, which would be for a 9-1/2 inch armhole, if I follow the XL instructions, I will wind up with 73, which is intended for the 10-1/4.

Thanks so much again, sorry to make it more difficult. I'm just trying to understand if the sleeve cap width needs to match the armhole length, which in my head, I would think it should, and if so, then, yes, I need to make the XL sleeve.

suzeeq 11-21-2010 10:25 AM

Okay, so it's a drop shoulder sleeve, so there's no real shaping except binding off the underarm sts. Then yes, you should have around 70 sts at the top of the sleeve. You can increase more sts so that you have about that amount after you BO at the underarm. You only need an extra 4 sts so you can add the incs in the part where it says 'knit for x inches'.

boyforpele13 11-22-2010 05:12 PM

Sue, you've been so helpful, I really appreciate it!

I hate to pester you more, but I need help again (still.) You were definitely correct about it needing around 70 stitches because it matched up to the front/back *perfectly* when I seamed it (I SEAMED SOMETHING!!!!!!! :-D) However, it's freaking enormous. Honestly, I think it would be enormous even if I followed the directions for the size medium. I actually haven't decided if I don't like it or not yet.... and looking on Rav, it seems a lot of them are kind of like that, it's a very large pattern from what everyone was saying.

So new question: Is there a guide or something on how to more gradually and narrowly taper a sleeve? I definitely need to end up with the 70-ish stitches and of course the 5 bound off on both sides, but between that and casting on, are there rules or anything or can I just peruse some patterns and find something or how does that work?

Pardon the bathroom mirror pics and don't mind the yarn dangling all over the place and the fact the side isn't seamed up yet LOL (the sleeve is seamed, just not the side of the actual sweater, that's not dangling unattached sleeve, just clarifying since my camera is rotten) but here's an idea:

Thanks again!

suzeeq 11-22-2010 06:05 PM

I think this was an oversize pattern to begin with, so maybe you shoulda done a small....? You could snug up the side seam a little more so the armhole itself wouldn't be so roomy (or you can undo the shoulder seams and only knit the shoulders to 9 or 9" if that'll work for you). Then pick up sts around it - you wouldn't need to pick up 70 sts just whatever works for you - and decrease down to the wrist. I usually begin the decs about couple inches down and dec every inch or two; if I reach the wrist size I want sooner, then I knit straight for the last few inches. My arm is pretty 'straight' at that point anyway. That way you can try on as you go and get the length right too.

If you're going to reknit the shoulders, you could go back as far as the underarm BO and bind off more of them, or do decreases on the first few rows above them so the shoulder doesn't drop quite so much.

boyforpele13 11-23-2010 04:26 PM

Now that you mention it, I *AM* making the small!!!! I can't even imagine! I just realized it's written XS(S, M, L, XL) so I'm not making the medium at all. Mind you, my gauge was bigger than the pattern called for, I knew that all along which is why I was making a smaller size to begin with, but not by much, it calls for 4/in and I'm getting about 3-1/2/in which wouldn't account for a small fitting my.... well, very not small body LOL (I haven't fit into anything smaller than an XL since I was about 7, I think :teehee:) Everyone on Rav is saying similar, though, when I attempted the XL size, the front near wrapped around my entire body.

anyway, I realize this is yet another horrendous picture (I *will* get a camera some day!) but I noticed this in the book and unfortunately couldn't find it online, but here you can see what the sleeves look like even on their model (particularly the arm crossed over her abdomen, that sleeve is HUUUUUGE):

so for whatever reason, I guess that really is what was intended.... I'm going to wait before ripping because this is the first time I've ever seamed on a sleeve or mattress stitched a side seam for that matter (so exciting! lol) and bring it in to my next knitting meeting in a week or so and get some in-person opinions since my camera is ridiculous. if I redo them, I will definitely go with your picking up stitches sleeve suggestion. I think it *might* be less bad with the side seamed now too.

thank you so much for helping me through this!!!! this will officially be my first completed garment, even if you can fit 7 of my arms in the sleeves, since I have to send the jacket off for finishing :/

suzeeq 11-23-2010 04:45 PM

If it's a pattern from about 20 years ago, they were all huge and oversized. This is such a simple one though you could actually customize it to your measurements.

Take your gauge of 3 spi times the finished size you want and CO half the total for the back and front pieces. Work to the underarm, BO the number of sts for the smallest size, then knit the armhole length to the height you want (measure another sweater you like the fit of for that). For the split front, knit to where you want the V to begin, then do half the sts for one shoulder with the decs and do the other shoulder. Put it together, pick up sts around the newer resized armhole and begin decreasing. Since you've made it once the 'right' way, you know how it's supposed to go together and getting it to fit a little less loosely will be faster because you'll have less stitches.

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