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SimoneB 07-12-2013 07:52 AM

Pattern adaption trouble: Should I add short rows?

I am branching this off from my previous thread as the old title is no longer relevant (hope it's ok):

I am knitting this bottom up raglan top: - the pattern is written to be knit flat in four pieces and stitched together at the end, but I am knitting it in the round. I have knit the body and the sleeves, added the sleeves to the needles and am now about midway through the yoke, so far so good.

But this is where this whole knitting it in one piece gets a bit tricky. In between the next decrease rounds the directions say to work 10 rows in the front and back, but only 6 rows in the sleeves - like this:

97th row: P1, *Sl1, K1, psso, K2, P2, rep from * ending the last rep w P1 instead of P2 (80 sts)
98th row: K1, *P3, K2, rep from * ending the last rep w K1 instead of K2 [to be reversed]
Work 10 more rows in the same rib. When making the sleeves note that 6 rows only are worked here.
109th row: P1, *K1, K2tog, P2, *rep from * ending the last rep w P1 instead of P2.

So, how do I accomplish this when knitting in the round? My first thought was to use short rows across the front and back - if I do two rounds with w&ts on the front and the back of the body and four normal rounds it should come out to 10 rows on the body and 6 rows on the sleeves, but I don't know if it will turn out nice? Is there an alternative option?

And if I do the w&ts, should I group them or spread them evenly across the 10 rows?

Thank you so much for your help!

SimoneB 07-14-2013 10:45 AM

Is there really not anyone who can help? I have started doing the short rows, but I have no idea whether it's the right thing to do, as I don't really understand the purpose of having fewer rows in the sleeves than in the body. And there's more trouble up ahead as they sleeves, front and back all end at different points, which I'll also try to even out with short rows - I really hope I won't end up having to frog it all! :(

Ingrid 07-14-2013 11:13 AM

I'm guessing that you didn't get any response because nobody has experience with this problem.

Personally, I'd probably just add the rows to the sleeves, subtract the rows from the back (I usually have to make armholes smaller), or the divide the pieces at this point.

The short rows you mention will probably work too, but without the piece right here, I'm afraid I don't really know.

salmonmac 07-14-2013 11:17 AM

Sorry Simone. This post seems to have slipped by. I've never seen a yoke with fewer rows over the sleeves. Especially without specific directions for the short row shaping. Usually the decreases in the yoke take care of the shaping and the extra fabric in the sleeves becomes part of the shoulders so you don't need to have fewer rows. Sometmes there are extra rows at the back of the neck to raise that area but that occurs toward the end of the yoke.
If you decide to do the short rows across front and back, I think your idea of spacing them out is better than stacking them up in the same place. You'll only need 4 more rows so the short rows may be a good compromise with the pattern wording.
I've checked the errata link in Ravelry and don't see any that apply to this part of the pattern.

SimoneB 07-14-2013 04:46 PM

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That's really helpful, thanks! I already did the first set of short rows (spaced apart), but I think I might just go all the way across for all 10 rows from now on instead of doing another set of short rows. I guess maybe it doesn't make that much of a difference in the end. I'm kind of happy I didn't divide the pieces, though, I'm not really good at seaming so joining pieces of different sizes together would probably also have caused me a headache.

But I think I did something wrong on the short rows, the turns are very noticeable on the right side of the fabric - at least I remember them blending in more when I did them last, but the yarn I was using then was a little more forgiving. I am attempting the Japanese variety. Does it look right (if not, can you tell what I might have done wrong)?

After the pattern for the sleeves end, the front goes on for another 7 rows and the back for another 17 - this would be for neck shaping, which should be doable with short rows. When shaping the back of the neck you would stagger the short row turns so they form a crescent, like this:
Would you use the same technique in the front? Looking at the finished pictures, I think the purpose is to create more of a boat neck shape.

salmonmac 07-14-2013 07:58 PM

It looks pretty good to me. I think the short rows might even out with blocking.
The Japanese short rows look like a neat way to go and easier to see than the w&t. I haven't used them myself as I tend to use w&t or German short rows. I wonder if doing them on the purl part of the rib might disguise them even more?

SimoneB 07-15-2013 12:56 PM

Ah! I did do something wrong. I went back and had a look at this sample again: - the right side on the sample is completely smooth, while mine has a stitch going across. When I looked at the directions again (I have been using these: I realized that I have been forgetting to orient the stitch + loop at the turn point on the purl side so they lay left arm forward before p2tog'ering.

Almost done now, just need to do the neck shaping *fingers crossed* and the edgings.

SimoneB 07-15-2013 01:04 PM

Btw I like doing the Japanese short rows, I find them fairly easy to work (aside from the purl side gaffe). But then again I don't have anything to compare them to, having never done a basic w&t...

salmonmac 07-15-2013 06:10 PM

I'm going to try them on a swatch but they do look nice and easy. Thanks for the recommendation. Glad you caught the mistake, too. This is going to be a lovely sweater.

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