Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2013, 06:08 PM   #1
ArtLady1981
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
ArtLady1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 10,473
Thanks: 5,264
Thanked 3,893 Times in 3,014 Posts
COPYRIGHT question
If a knitting booklet is out-of-print...and let's say the booklet copyright date is 1973...when do copyright laws not apply anymore?

When can a pattern in that booklet be scanned and shared with another knitter?

I vaguely remember hearing that a copyright pattern lasts for xx number of years...something like 25 or 50.

Does anyone know more about this?

The reason I ask...I knit a Baby Hoodie pattern back in 1977...but I didn't own the booklet...my girlfriend's mother did...and we were able to borrow the booklet from her mom. I have some tattered notes with the pattern directions, but not the booklet. I've knit this baby hoodie a dozen times over the years using my tattered notebook pages. I wish I owned the booklet!

Recently another knitter at Ravelry asked me where she could find the pattern. So I began an investigation, using Google Search. I found one booklet on Ebay (!) and it's a bid auction, starting at $8. So I placed a bid...and right now I'm the high bidder with $15.50. My max bid is $20 and that's it for me. I'm done. I won't raise my bid over the $20, and even $20 is prolly ridiculous, but I'm sorta emotionally attached to this pattern, having knit it for my babies way back in the late 70's.

But I'm curious...if I win the bid...can I scan the pattern and share it with this little German gal? I told her about the Ebay auction, and gave her first crack at it...but I guess Ebay.com is USA only...and German citizens have Ebay.de, and her Ebay has a copy of the booklet priced at $40, which we both agree is ridiculous. So she is jonesing around to get a free (shared) pattern from someone, and from what she said, someone might do this for her.

I'm still curious about old old old copyrighted and out-of-print patterns.
__________________
Knitting Help Video Index

Artlady at Rav
ArtLady1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 06:25 PM   #2
Antares
Working the Gusset
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,884
Thanks: 236
Thanked 675 Times in 632 Posts
This site seems to explain it fairly well: http://inventors.about.com/od/copyri...expiration.htm

In general copyrights expire 70 years after the author's death. I was thinking that it was 75 years since the piece was published, but that's not the case.
Antares is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Antares For This Useful Post:
ArtLady1981 (01-09-2013)
Old 01-09-2013, 06:33 PM   #3
ArtLady1981
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
ArtLady1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 10,473
Thanks: 5,264
Thanked 3,893 Times in 3,014 Posts
Originally Posted by Antares View Post
This site seems to explain it fairly well: http://inventors.about.com/od/copyri...expiration.htm In general copyrights expire 70 years after the author's death. I was thinking that it was 75 years since the piece was published, but that's not the case.

I found this statement at the link you provided, and it would seem to apply to a 1973 booklet w/ knitting designs:

Published from 1964 to 1977 - When published with notice - copyright protection lasts 28 years for first term; automatic extension of 67 years for second term for a total of 95 years.

So I am translating it to mean that the 1973 booklet of designs will be protected from scanning, copying and sharing until the year 2068.

The paragraph in blue doesn't stipulate anything about the designer's death.
(edited to add: the death of the designer is mentioned regarding things published after 1978...the leaflet I'm looking into was published in 1973 with a slightly different set of rules...death of designer not relevant)

Of course, the booklet isn't a person, but the designs were created by an individual or a team of individuals. The booklet I'm referring to is a McCalls publication, but I don't suppose that's relevant.

And then there is the teensy few words on that copyright info page that say:
"If not renewed, now in public domain."

So if McCalls renews their copyrights...the lock on the designs will go on until my great-great-great-great-great grandchildren are knitters! In other words, the designs are lost. The original publication has disintegrated and the designs have become dust, and are gone forever. If they cannot be shared electronically for preservation, the hard copies are gone. Done. It's sorta a shame.
__________________
Knitting Help Video Index

Artlady at Rav

Last edited by ArtLady1981 : 01-09-2013 at 08:15 PM.
ArtLady1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 06:34 PM   #4
Jan in CA
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
Jan in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 37,184
Thanks: 1,656
Thanked 8,750 Times in 7,120 Posts
That isnt always true though. It's a fuzzy area.

I found some info here about it in the questions toward the bottom-
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEfall03/FEATcopyright.html

I have this bookmarked-
http://yarnaholic.wordpress.com/the-...-for-knitters/

And the specific question is sorta answered here-
http://yarnaholic.wordpress.com/the-...or-knitters/2/
__________________
Jan

When asking questions ALWAYS post the name and a link for the pattern if you have it.

NEW! KH knitting video archive
~HOW TO POST A PHOTO~

Jan in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jan in CA For This Useful Post:
ArtLady1981 (01-09-2013)
Old 01-09-2013, 07:34 PM   #5
ArtLady1981
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
ArtLady1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 10,473
Thanks: 5,264
Thanked 3,893 Times in 3,014 Posts
Thanks for these links, too, Jan! One of the links provided a pdf copy of copyright information, and I downloaded it, and then uploaded it into my Google Drive. So now I'll be armed with a clear picture of copyright FAQ's next time someone asks me to share a pattern that's out-of-print.

I'm rather curious to see what the McCalls booklet displays regarding its copyrights.
Well, that is IF my max bid of $20 wins the auction.

BTW, the booklet I'm after is:

McCall's Makes It Just For Baby: 65 Things to Knit, Crochet, Sew,1973
__________________
Knitting Help Video Index

Artlady at Rav
ArtLady1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 08:19 PM   #6
ArtLady1981
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
ArtLady1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 10,473
Thanks: 5,264
Thanked 3,893 Times in 3,014 Posts
Over at Ravelry, in the Pattern page for the Hooded Ribbed Jacket seen in that 1973 McCalls booklet, I posted my 2 cents in the comments section:

"It’s a crying shame that McCall’s has allowed this design to become lost, and unavailable to 21st Century knitters. With copyright laws that can lock up the design for 95 years from the publishing date, and maybe longer if McCall’s extends the copyright…it makes the design totally unavailable to 21st Century knitters. There are a few vintage copies of the Leaflet/booklet found on Ebay auction/bid basis only, but this hardly qualifies as a viable resource."

I may write to McCall's as well.
__________________
Knitting Help Video Index

Artlady at Rav
ArtLady1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 08:22 PM   #7
Jan in CA
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
Jan in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 37,184
Thanks: 1,656
Thanked 8,750 Times in 7,120 Posts
Yeah, I think out should write McCalls!
__________________
Jan

When asking questions ALWAYS post the name and a link for the pattern if you have it.

NEW! KH knitting video archive
~HOW TO POST A PHOTO~

Jan in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 08:58 PM   #8
IslandTime
1st Leg of the Journey
 
IslandTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nanaimo BC, Canada
Posts: 198
Thanks: 117
Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts
I think this begs the question - since you have the directions - just how much would you have to CHANGE the pattern, in order to call it your own? Or to at least be able to share it freely. That'd seem like the simplest way around it to me. Or could you make SOME changes, then give credit by acknowledgment that this pattern was inspired by a pattern originally published by so-and-so on such-and-such a date?

I'm pretty sure there's something specified in this way when it comes to cookbooks...?


Originally Posted by ArtLady1981 View Post
Over at Ravelry, in the Pattern page for the Hooded Ribbed Jacket seen in that 1973 McCalls booklet, I posted my 2 cents in the comments section:

"It’s a crying shame that McCall’s has allowed this design to become lost, and unavailable to 21st Century knitters. With copyright laws that can lock up the design for 95 years from the publishing date, and maybe longer if McCall’s extends the copyright…it makes the design totally unavailable to 21st Century knitters. There are a few vintage copies of the Leaflet/booklet found on Ebay auction/bid basis only, but this hardly qualifies as a viable resource."

I may write to McCall's as well.
__________________
IslandTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 12:15 PM   #9
JudyD
Turning the Heel
 
JudyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 550
Thanks: 392
Thanked 234 Times in 213 Posts
I just searched for a copyright on a pattern I just acquired. Copyright emblem is on the pattern along with "all rights reserved" by the designer. I searched pattern name and designer's name and found neither.

Judy
JudyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 07:20 PM   #10
ArtLady1981
Moderator
Mod Squad
 
ArtLady1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kent, Washington
Posts: 10,473
Thanks: 5,264
Thanked 3,893 Times in 3,014 Posts
The 64-pg booklet arrived today! Sixty-five baby things to knit, crochet, and sew. Bibs, toys, blankets, and clothing galore. It's amazing how relevant they are even for our 21st Century.

Anyway, my coveted baby hoodie is in there!

On the bottom of page 2, the Forward and Contents page, there are 4 lines of copyright language.

Copyright©1959, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 by The McCall Pattern Company. All rights reserved. Printed and published in the U.S.A. by the McCall Pattern Company, 230 Park Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10017

So that's it.
I think perhaps this booklet began publication in 1959, or parts of it. This particular booklet was published in 1973, which renews all the designs copyright, I believe.

Not one single individual designer is named on any of the designs.

Therefore, whereas I would loan my booklet to my BFF who lives down the lane, I wouldn't make copies of a particular design/pattern for anyone else. If my BFF wanted to scan and print a copy of a design, and leave the booklet in my possession, I'd allow it.

And of course, I certainly wouldn't scan a pattern to a pdf doc and email it to anyone, not even my local friends. Too easy for pdf's to be widely distributed.

Anyone have anything to add?
__________________
Knitting Help Video Index

Artlady at Rav
ArtLady1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Copyright Question Smee General Knitting 2 01-03-2011 01:02 PM
Copyright question... RuthieinMaryland General Knitting 13 09-26-2010 04:18 PM
Copyright question KnitClickChick General Knitting 5 07-01-2009 04:06 PM
Yet another copyright question :-) willowangel General Knitting 20 08-10-2007 09:06 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 AM.