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Old 02-17-2008, 11:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by feministmama View Post
I am so sadened to hear the voices inthe thread about panhandlers

and how they learn to develop compassionfor one another andfor thse in thier communities (by knitting blankets, hats, etc)
Is there compassion in here for born again Christians?

Is there tolerance for our beliefs, just like there is tolerance for the beliefs and practices of Muslims, Hindus, new agers of all kinds,
Show me the love. I care about each of you, and I post my views in here, yet, I get very little support.
Think about why that is.
If you all have compassion and caring, then why do you kill other humans, but save whales?
Why spay feral cats, spending lots of money on that, btw, instead of
focusing on education homeless panhandlers?
If a person has an education, and a supportive family, that loves them and shows them "how to fish, instead of handing them a fish",
that person can build a business or organization that will be able to offer free education, supplies, foods, clothes, for people who have been told they are forever victims, and must live their lives being prostituted out, either by panhandling for someone else, or by selling their body.
This lie of being a victim needs to stop.
Instead of being perpetrated endlessly, the victim mentality needs to be stopped.
Some of you in here have no compassion for me, one who advocates and practices "if a man/woman won't work, they should not eat", which, the roots are of love for homeless people.
I feel for homeless people, but, I don't have the money to educate them all or to teach them all useful skills. I have what I have, which is the ability to enlighten others in the ways of self-sufficiency.
Self-sufficiency is liberating.
Feminists yelled that for years. Get mom away from her children, away from her awful, oppressive husband, and make her earn a paycheck, and NOT be the victim.
I agree. Get people away from oppressive, lying manipulative society which tells them they are entitled to have someone else "take care" of them forever, and teach them how to be NON-victims.
How to take care of themselves.
WHY HAVE REHAB centers, if your goal is to keep the panhandlers dependent upon others?
Why do some people need to keep others tied to their "apron strings" in order to feel useful?
I think you are more useful if you help a panhandler get UP and learn useful coping mechanisms, learn how to handle tough situations in life, learn how to get themselves independent.
Answer this:
What is wrong with a person being self sufficient, and independent, and making their own decisions? What's wrong with a person being free of government handouts, and feeling pride and strength and self confidence, because they own their own home, or apt. pay their own bills, buy their own food, and have worked hard to bring themselves up out of destitution?
Answer: nothing is wrong with that.
If liberals are so compassionate, then educate the homeless, cut the umbilical cord of freebies, if they insist on being a panhandler, after being educated and given some decent clothes and dental care.
If you are so compassionate, then LIFT the burden of oppression you have placed upon them, and get your foot off their backs, and let them have dignity, and an honest way to earn money.


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Old 02-17-2008, 03:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by auburnchick View Post
Ever since I took up knitting, I think of my dad. After he died in 2001, I found out that he used to go out and distributed gloves to the homeless on the street. I never, ever knew that about him. One day, after I learn how to make them, I would like to carry on my dad's giving.

I do think that is one great thing about knitting. It provides a practical outlet to exercise compassion. We give without expecting anything in return and to people who, most of the time, cannot offer anything in return.
What a wonderful man your father was! A totally compassionate human being. Thanks for sharing his story with us!
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:09 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ArtLady1981 View Post
Good words, feministmama!

or if you truly have no cash money either...just say no. .and no eye-rolling...and move on...and judge not.

Why would someone roll their eyes at a panhandler? That's passive aggressive behavior, and judgementalism.
I agree, just say no. And hope they back off.
Old 02-17-2008, 03:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by iza View Post
One thing I'm wondering is the "kind" of compassion people develop. I would think some are more compassionate than others about different groups.

Interesting comment. What kinds of compassion are there?
How many different kinds of compassion exist?

How can you tell if someone is more compassionate than another, without being judgemental?

And, if you do decide someone is less compassionate than someone else, what is the remedy for the less compassionate person?
Old 02-17-2008, 03:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by photolady View Post
Why spay feral cats, spending lots of money on that, btw, instead of focusing on education homeless panhandlers?
Please believe me when I say that I'm writing this with all due respect, and not a bit of argumentativeness.
My husband and I have spayed/neutered a colony of feral cats in our neighborhood, and continue to feed and care for them. I do this because I LOVE these cats as if they were my own children. I've just always had a huge place in my heart for the homeless, abandoned animals of this world. This is something that is extremely important to me, and while I can't save every single one of them, I can at least help the ones on my street.

Anyway, the only reason I say this is because it's not only liberals who do this. I'm a Christan, a conservative, and I vote republican. But I still love animals, and try to care for them when I can. Not only liberals do this. I haven't helped many homless people, because I live in a small town, and don't remember ever seeing anyone panhandling. I can't say what I'd do in that case, because I've never been face with it.

I hope I'm not making a mess of this, because I don't wish to argue at all. I can't argue a point if I've never been faced with the decision. I think I was just pointing out, that you can't just lump people into catagories, by saying that if you love animals, you are a liberal. Please PM me anytime if you want to talk further. I'm not offended, and I hope I didn't just offend you.

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Old 02-17-2008, 04:21 PM   #16
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:00 PM   #17
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I don't believe anyone in this forum should tag her/himself or others as a religious/conservative/liberal etc. as a reason of doing things for others. I think we all can help other people or animals in need, without "despite" and "only liberals...". When a homeless receives a meal or a dog gets a home, they don't care who you are. All they know is that you're compassionate. And each individual should be as compassionate as she/he can. I can't bring food to the homeless, because i try not to spend too much on my own food. But i did take 2 cats, one from the street and one who could end there and a dog that was injured and could've probably end up in the shelter. I don't want to be tagged as "liberal" or "conservative". I'm doing the best i can. I think a person that truly loves animals truly understands compassion, because they can't talk or panhandle. If talking to my 14-year old neighbor about the results of having unprotected sex at that age with a 25-year old guy, helps her in not doing it, then i'm happy because i helped someone and didn't stand and watch from the side how someone's life gets ruined.
I hope we can all keep being just human beings, in the best part of it and not the worst that we get to see on TV every day.

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Old 02-17-2008, 07:25 PM   #18
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I posted this in another OT topic, but this thread was also cited by members so it applies here as well:

Hey everyone.

A few members have brought this thread to my attention with concern for the direction it is heading. Please keep your discussion civil and friendly and constructive. People are bound to have disagreements and that is fine. However attacking, condemning, and/or mocking other members beliefs and ideals is not OK here. If this thread continues to head in that direction is will get "da lock!" So please keep it nice.


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Old 02-17-2008, 07:53 PM   #19
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I, too, believe that you don't have to be liberal to love animals, or conservative to have faith. I think that, if we can just try to help each other out a little bit along the way then we're doing well.

I'm one of *those* people that lives on state benefits. It's taken me a long time to not be ashamed of it, and I'm still not all the way there. Because of various disabilities I am unable to work, but they're 'invisible' disabilities and little-understood ones. While there are specialists that understand my condition, average doctors tend to think I'm just whining. If the incapacity benefit reform comes, it's people like me that will be screwed. I got sick at 19, before I had paid any national insurance, before I'd had a proper job. I am glad that I live in a society where financial aid is available to the sick, because otherwise I would have been one of those people who didn't deserve to eat. I would have been homeless, starved and died, and I am aware constantly that there are many countries in the world where that would have been my short life. I feel lucky, not just because of my experience, to live in a society where we help the sick and the disadvantaged, where they are not left to suffer and die if they don't have the resources, financial, physical or mental, to support themselves. I think it is the mark of a civilised society. I am fully aware of the people who abuse the system, they are the ones that give people like me a bad name, but their numbers are small in comparison to the number of people saved by the system.

Most of us who live on these benefits would love the chance at a normal life, would like to be able to moan about our jobs and get the sense of achievement when we got a paycheque. I avoid reunions and suchlike because I don't want people to see me as one of those people you read about in the papers whenever politicians want to use incapacity benefit as something to get outraged about. It's easy to say scrap the system when you don't rely on it, but - to be blunt - you never know when you're going to have to. I was supposed to be an award winning physicist by now, not someone living off the state with no job and no hope.

I admire self-sufficiency, I think it's a great thing to aspire to, but, in evolutionary terms, human society is built to rely on each other. We build on each other's strengths and weaknesses in order to form a cohesive whole, each bringing something different to the mix. Some manage while some create, some get things done while others help people with the transitions. Trying to do it all yourself is a great idea, but a lot of pressure when we are built to help each other out. If anything, I think our society is still too far towards isolation - self-worth is based on the job you do and the status you have, instead of what you are like as a human being. I may not be able to work, I may not be a physicist, but I listen when my friends need me, I help out when I can, I create and love and hope. It would be better if those qualities could be valued as much as our money-earning capabilities, as they are as necessary - not so much towards buying food to nourish the body, but in nourishing the soul. Everyone brings something different to the table, some more than others, some more obviously than others, but everyone has something to give, and it's in that exchange of giving and receiving that we are human.
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #20
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