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Old 01-23-2013, 12:28 PM   #1
dudeKnit
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Round Sizing
Hello again everyone. I'm back with another question. Before you ask, my scarf is coming along very nicely. Since frogging it the other day I've gotten it almost a foot long. And 5 color changes.

I've also started another project, this one is inspired by the posting from fatoldladyinpjs about the Solders that knit.



I've decided to do the watch cap but with slight variations. I'm going for 2 tone black and white with black being the bulk of the project with 3 parallel white stripes wrapping halfway round horizontally. That's not my problem. I've working using DPN's never done it before and last night I sorta figured out working DPN, and got my cast on onto my 3 needles. My issue though is the sizing looks off. I followed the pattern for the cap using 108 stitches divided up between 3 needles, but it's looking a bit small.

Tonight I can post a pic of where it's currently at for some feedback as far as stitch spacing goes for casting on. Where it's at now though the hole looks barely large enough to fit a toddlers head. Possibly 4 - 6 inches diameter.

As always I appreciate your input.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:38 PM   #2
Jan in CA
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What size needles and weight yarn are you using? Is it the recommended gauge for the pattern? If even one of those is different it can affect sizing.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dudeKnit View Post
Hello again everyone. I'm back with another question. Before you ask, my scarf is coming along very nicely. Since frogging it the other day I've gotten it almost a foot long. And 5 color changes.

I've also started another project, this one is inspired by the posting from fatoldladyinpjs about the Solders that knit.

I've decided to do the watch cap but with slight variations. I'm going for 2 tone black and white with black being the bulk of the project with 3 parallel white stripes wrapping halfway round horizontally. That's not my problem. I've working using DPN's never done it before and last night I sorta figured out working DPN, and got my cast on onto my 3 needles. My issue though is the sizing looks off. I followed the pattern for the cap using 108 stitches divided up between 3 needles, but it's looking a bit small.

Tonight I can post a pic of where it's currently at for some feedback as far as stitch spacing goes for casting on.

As always I appreciate your input.
Two things come to mind here.

First is, (and I only learned this recently myself) that your gauge can be different when you're knitting in the round like you would be for a hat than it is when you're knitting flat -- like a scarf. (Somewhere there's a recent thread on this very topic in fact.) Which is tangentially related to my next thought...

Second, when you knitted your scarf, you were making garter stitch -- knitting every row (no purling) But if you do the same thing with the hat (i.e. knit every round) you'll be making stockinette stitch which is considerably narrower than garter stitch given the same number of stitches. So 108 stitches in garter stitch is wider than 108 stitches in stockinette. So if you based the gauge for your hat on the gauge you got making your scarf, it would make your hat come out small. Even if you were using the same yarn and same size needles.

Finally, this may not be an altogether bad thing. A little bit small is what you're going for in a knitted hat because it'll stretch (sometimes a LOT) and if you make it bang-on the size of your head, it'll blow off in a good gust of wind. Not really what you want in a hat. So if you're gonna be off, it's better to be off on the small side.

UPDATED: Yup. I found the thread on round gauging, and there's an excellent shortcut in it from Suzeeq.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:42 PM   #4
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I'm doing a watch cap right now on four dpns and it's 112 stitches so not much removed from yours. I have heavy weight yarn (possibly Arran, it's hand spun and doesn't list the weight), and 3.5mm dpns. It's a k1p1 rib so will be very stretchy.

Best thing to check is yarn weight and needle size.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #5
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Here are a few things to consider: 1) Are you stitches squished up on the DPNs so they won't slip off? If so, then you're not seeing the actual size of the hat, and 2) the hat will stretch, of course; that's what the ribbing is for, but it may very well be that it's too small.

You might want to knit a swatch in the round (video here: http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/pl...r-gauge-swatch) to check your gauge. HOWEVER, hats are usually such smallish projects that it's almost not worth knitting a gauge swatch because if you're unhappy with the size, you can usually start over quite easily. That's just me, though. You may find it more efficient and less frustrating to just go ahead and knit a gauge swatch and then do your hat based on it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:00 PM   #6
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Something else just occurred to me, though it sorta falls into that "Is it plugged in?" category. But it occurs to me that with a scarf, checking gauge isn't all that important, so you might've skipped that step. But when you're trying to get something to be a certain size, you can't really do that. The pattern you're using will say 108 stitches, but that's predicated on a certain number of stitches per inch, and if you knit tighter or looser than that 108 stitches for you won't be the same size as 108 stitches for somebody else, given the same yarn and needle size. And the variations can be significant. (A lot more than you'd think.)

So you want to knit a swatch using the yarn you're going to make the thing out of, measure 4 inches and count the number of stitches you put into those 4 inches. Ideally you'll measure it in 3 or 4 different places and take an average (especially if you're just getting used to DPNs). For the sake of completeness, you'll usually check the number of rows (or rounds, in this case) in 4 inches, but that's probably as critical for this project.

Also, when the work is still on the needles, it's GOING to look smaller than it actually is. On the needles, your stitches are turned so they're perpendicular to the needle. Once they're OFF the needle, they're gong to rotate so they're in the plane of the fabric. And that's going to make the piece a LOT bigger (maybe as much as double, depending on the yarn/gauge).
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:44 PM   #7
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The vast majority of hats I make I use US 7 needles, worsted weight yarn and I cast on between 72-80 stitches. Obviously that can change if I use a different weight yarn. That's why I asked about specifics as well.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jan in CA View Post
The vast majority of hats I make I use US 7 needles, worsted weight yarn and I cast on between 72-80 stitches. Obviously that can change if I use a different weight yarn. That's why I asked about specifics as well.
Which only underscores the point about different folks having different gauges. When I made the Raspberry Beret, the band was 74 sts... on US 9 needles and two strands of worsted weight yarn. Which gave me about a 22" circumference. (Yeah, my stitches were... ahem... a little tight.)
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:04 PM   #9
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Actually you can get the same gauge on the same needle with different weights of yarn. I used double stranded lace weight on size 9s and got the same gauge as worsted on 9s. The thin yarn just makes a thinner fabric. Try it sometime - take some thin yarn and your size 9s and see if you get the same gauge as the doubled worsted (which would be a super super bulky so no wonder the sts were tight with 9s, needed an 11 or 13 for that weight).
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #10
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Needles are size US 5 and yarn is #4 pattern called for those netting around 5 - 5 1/2 stitches per inch.

The actual pattern, https://sites.google.com/site/hbmprintablepatterns/cap
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