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Old 03-13-2008, 11:16 AM   #1
roadtoast
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Yarn Over Short Row heel ?: please help
Hi,

I'm new here and I feel badly about asking a question right off the bat, but I am so frustrated that I want to scream.

I am working on a short row heel that uses yarn overs. It is toe-up, so once the foot of the sock is formed, the pattern calls for:

knitting across to just before the last stitch,
turning,
backward YO,
slip a stitch,
then purling across to one stitch before end,
turning,
backward yo,
slip a stitch,
turn.
I continue in this way (turning at one stitch before the last YO formed) until I have 4 live stitches left.

As far as I know I am doing all this correctly.

To close the holes left by the YO's, I knit across to the stitch before the YO, and k2tog that stitch with the YO. (Later it becomes k3tog). Then I turn, purl across to one stitch before the YO, and ssp that stitch and the YO (later it becomes sssp).

So the problem: I cannot get rid on the holes formed by the YO's--but only on the side where they should be closed by k2tog/k3togs; they are all nicely closed on the side where I do the ssp/sssp's.

My questions:
* Is this a common issue? If so, what solves it? (I know there is a "wrap" method for SR heels, but i really want to make this work.)
* Why would a pattern call for backward YO instead of a regular one? I have done lots of looking on-line and some people actually describe a backward YO using the exact same directions other people use of a regular YO. Could how I do the Yo (front or back) make a difference, and if so, what?
* I don't really understand why the patterns calls for slipping a stitch after the backward YO. What does this achieve? (I don't think this is the problem, just curious).
* The pattern doesn't specify whether one should slip the stitch after the YO knit-wise or purl-wise. Is there a general rule when it isn't specified, and does it depend on whether you are on a purl side or knit side row?

I know this is a LOT of info....i would appreciate help of any of the above!!

Many thanks!
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:45 PM   #2
madonnaearth
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This link helped me
http://kaityvr.wordpress.com/2007/05...hort-row-heel/
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:31 PM   #3
ClaireGrandmaMaria
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NEW QUESTION YARN OVER FOR KNITTING AND PURLING...
Hi Everyone...

I am new at this also and I need some help... my first project is a lap blanket and I need to know what yarn over is.. I know I place the yarn in front of the needle, but what way do I do my next stitch..do i just take it over the right needle as if I was knitting the normal way....help know any one would really be helpful...The computer stuff is also new to me..so I hope I am doing all this right...
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:55 PM   #4
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Clairegrandma,

Here is a really good article about yarn overs (Maybe more than you want to know, scroll down to the bottom part first. This is a blog and what she wrote first is the last thing. It gets progressively more detailed as you go up.). If you read all this carefully with yarn in hand it should help you understand yarn overs in all their applications. In case you don't know, that red area above is a "hot link", just click on it and the computer will take you right to the article. :-)
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:03 PM   #5
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Roadtoast,

Here is a blog site I came across when looking for things about purling for Clairegrandma. It was titled Yarnover Short Row, Toe Up Toe. Maybe it won't help if you are past the toe, but it has a lot of pictures and I thought it might be of interest to you. Maybe the gal has more about this sock there too.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:30 PM   #6
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MergoldinWA: Thank you for your help, I will go to the site now. Everyone in the chat room has been really helpful too...
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:00 PM   #7
WildMountainHoney
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I just finished my 2nd sock with short-rows via yarn overs, and what I did was p3tog on those rows, and then on the knit rows, slip the first 2 purl-wise, next slip knit-wise, then k3tog through the BACK loops. It is tricky, but everything is closed up nicely.
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:04 PM   #8
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d'oh! I totally missed your other questions!


-not sure, but I know I won't do it again. I hated all the p3togs, and I am pretty good at wrapped short rows

- a backward yarn over (clockwise instead of counter-clockwise) makes a smaller hole.

- slipping a stitch just making the yarn-over + slipped stitch pair easier to find as you go along, plus some knitters always slip their first stitch. I didn't, in my socks, I knit all those.

- Generally purl-wise unless it says otherwise, or if it part of a ssk is my understanding, so in this case it would be purl-wise at the beginning of the row.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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Hi, I just joined and saw your entry about short-row heels. I see that your note is 2 years old and by now I hope you have found an answer, but thought I would comment anyway.

It sounds like you are working the Priscilla Gibson-Roberts heel which is really a good heel and does close up the holes pretty well. However, apparently it is hard for a lot of knitters to understand, so there are many misconceptions out there about how to work it correctly, so you have to be very wary. When I first started to use it, I was using what was probably at least a 3rd generation copy with mistakes or misunderstandings, so I had great gaping holes and promised myself never to work it again. The best solution is to get a copy of her book: Simple Socks, Plain and Fancy for the authentic instructions.

Let's see if I can clarify a few things.
First of all, you do NOT use a backwards YO at any time. If you check your library for the Vogue books, especially their Ultimate Sock Book, you will see that the YO at the beginning of the row might look backwards, but in fact is not.
On the knit side, you duck your needle under the yarn as you knit the first stitch and voila you have a YO going in the correct direction, counterclockwise.
On the purl side, you have the yarn behind the needle as you begin to purl and as you purl and pull the yarn over the right needle to purl, when you finish purling, you will have the YO also going in the correct direction.

The other tip is that whenever you are working the YOs, the regular stitch MUST be the last stitch of the set, whether double or triple stitch. In other words, starting from the left needle tip, you have YO, YO, Stitch. And they must be mounted with the front leg leading. If you don't have them in that order, you will indeed have big gaping holes.

I find the short-row heel not to be the most satisfactory heel for socks, whether toe-up or toe down. But since so many people love it, I am working on my own, much simpler, version of a holeless short-row heel. TBA.

By the way, have you tried the Turkish Heel, also known as the beforethought or afterthought heel? It is lovely -- and is just a regular toe!
I hope your sock knitting is soaring.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by knittyhaha View Post
Hi, I just joined and saw your entry about short-row heels. I see that your note is 2 years old and by now I hope you have found an answer, but thought I would comment anyway.

It sounds like you are working the Priscilla Gibson-Roberts heel which is really a good heel and does close up the holes pretty well. However, apparently it is hard for a lot of knitters to understand, so there are many misconceptions out there about how to work it correctly, so you have to be very wary. When I first started to use it, I was using what was probably at least a 3rd generation copy with mistakes or misunderstandings, so I had great gaping holes and promised myself never to work it again. The best solution is to get a copy of her book: Simple Socks, Plain and Fancy for the authentic instructions.

Let's see if I can clarify a few things.
First of all, you do NOT use a backwards YO at any time. If you check your library for the Vogue books, especially their Ultimate Sock Book, you will see that the YO at the beginning of the row might look backwards, but in fact is not.
On the knit side, you duck your needle under the yarn as you knit the first stitch and voila you have a YO going in the correct direction, counterclockwise.
On the purl side, you have the yarn behind the needle as you begin to purl and as you purl and pull the yarn over the right needle to purl, when you finish purling, you will have the YO also going in the correct direction.

The other tip is that whenever you are working the YOs, the regular stitch MUST be the last stitch of the set, whether double or triple stitch. In other words, starting from the left needle tip, you have YO, YO, Stitch. And they must be mounted with the front leg leading. If you don't have them in that order, you will indeed have big gaping holes.

I find the short-row heel not to be the most satisfactory heel for socks, whether toe-up or toe down. But since so many people love it, I am working on my own, much simpler, version of a holeless short-row heel. TBA.

By the way, have you tried the Turkish Heel, also known as the beforethought or afterthought heel? It is lovely -- and is just a regular toe!
I hope your sock knitting is soaring.
I am just wondering why you do not like the short row for a heel? I am just starting my 1st (2 @ 1 time socks) for my husband and from watching videos I thought I would use that one for my project... any advice?
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