k5to3 ??

[Jenkap]

I'm new to knitting and am LOVING this site. However I just tried to google k5to3 and k3to2 - both of which are in a beautiful pattern for a shawl I just found and I am clueless as to how to achieve this. The only explanation I found on the pattern was: knit 5 sts into 3 sts (and also knit 3 sts into 2 sts). I'm guessing this involves some knitting in front and back parts of the stitches, but that's only a guess. Anyone have any experience with these? Thanks so much.

[Jenkap]

OK, looking further at the page previous to the PDF file, there was some explanation:

"Knit 3 stitches together without slipping them off the left needle and knit 5 stitches out of this loop as in making the bobble, but without pulling the stitches longer than usual. Purl all strands individually on WS row to have 5 stitches. The k2to3 is made similarly."

but I don't understand how to knit 5 stitches out of the loop while the initial 3 stitches are still on the left needle. Is the new stitch on the right needle while adding the 5 stitches to it? ????

[Jan in CA]

What is the name of the pattern and if you have a link it would be helpful.

It sounds to me like you must have to increase twice to make 5, etc. But I've never heard of this type of bobble before..

[salmonmac]

The loop should be slipped back onto the left needle before you knit the 5 sts out of it. When you do this it looks like a knitted cast on where you place the loop made from one st back onto the left needle and then knit into it again, only here the loop is from a k3tog. Then, instead of knitting once into the new loop, you can knit, yo, knit, yo, knit into the loop.

[suzeeq]

I don't agree with salmonmac that you put the new st back on the L needle, you don't mess with the new sts at all.

Just k3tog, leave that st on the L needle, yo, knit into the same sts again, yo, knit into the same st again. That will give you 5 sts on the R needle and you can let the k3tog sts off the L needle. Then go on to the next st and purl the 5 sts separately on the next row.

For the other one, k2tog, yo, knit into the same sts again and there's your 3 sts. You might want to practice this with some other yarn and a really large needle to keep the sts loose.

[Jenkap]

I don't agree with salmonmac that you put the new st back on the L needle, you don't mess with the new sts at all.

Just k3tog, leave that st on the L needle, yo, knit into the same sts again, yo, knit into the same st again. That will give you 5 sts on the R needle and you can let the k3tog sts off the L needle. Then go on to the next st and purl the 5 sts separately on the next row.

For the other one, k2tog, yo, knit into the same sts again and there's your 3 sts. You might want to practice this with some other yarn and a really large needle to keep the sts loose.

Thanks so much suzeeq - that sounds reasonable since it does say to keep the three stitches on the left needle. This is from a pretty shawl called Mystic Forest by tettidesign that I found on Ravelry.com. The PDF download is clear in general, except the minimal explanation of those stitches. When I'm still on the Ravlery page, there's a link to a 'tettiblog' referring to this pattern and that's where I found the additional explanation in my second post. But I was somehow thinking I was supposed to get five stitches into that first stitch pulled through the three stitches, not that that first stitch was the first of the five, all through the three stitches, though of course, that makes a lot more sense now. :-) I'm much less confused now!

[Jan in CA]

The pattern is free if someone needs it to help or verify the help they've given.
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/mystic-forest

[salmonmac]

I think you're right, Sue. The way I recommended leaves a lacey hole and I don't see that in the pattern.