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Old 09-26-2012, 10:32 AM   #1
KnitBeg
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Pattern help - crossed stitches (twists)
Hi there

I'll go straight to the point: I'm working on a pattern and am completely stuck. I really hope there is somebody on this forum who can help me.

The pattern is from the (Dutch version of the) book "Lesley Stanfield & Melody Griffiths - The Encyclopedia of Knitting". I've already made quite some patterns, and though it is a challenge everytime I do manage to complete them. At least, so far...

The problem is, that the pattern has twists in it. I can do those, but I can't read them "on a reverse needle". What I mean is this: when the pattern says "knit" all the way, it is really knit on the even rows but purl on the rows that aren't even (reverse).
With the twists, the symbols are only explained for right-side rows. This makes sense, as most patterns only use them in right-side rows. The wrong-side rows (reverse) are just k or p (sometimes through backside loop). But the one pattern I'm struggling with also uses these symbols in wrong-side rows. And in that case I'm at a total loss. I've tried all sorts of things and have been struggling for a month now... I don't want to give up though - it has to be possible!

PS I'd like to post links to the pattern and the book but I need more posts (I'm new here...)
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:33 AM   #2
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Lets see if this works...
This is the book I mentioned (in English):
Stanfield - Griffiths "The Encyclopedia of Knitting"
The Twist are mentioned in p74 of the book (p72 of the site) and further.
Don't look to carefully at the drawings, I don't think they're quite right
p149 And further explain how they work with patterns in this book.
And low on p150 the twist-symbols are explained.

The online book doesn't feature the pattern I'm struggling with. Maybe they deleted it for a purpuse
I'll try posting it here:

I hope it is not too big Not too good on the computer...

THE PROBLEM STARTS IN ROW 4
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #3
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Could you type out the first few rows of instructions for us to see? Doesn't seem right that they would want you to do the twists on the wrong side of the work as well as the right side of the work. Don't worry, someone on here will be able to help!
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #4
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I agree, it doesn't seem right. But the twists make the upward-sides of the leaves and they are more vertical at the points in the pattern where the twist should be done both ways... The most annoying thing is that the pattern itself has the note "This pattern is quite easy, but you've got to watch the twists in the reverse rows"

You asked me to type out the first rows of instruction - I am happy to do that, but I myself am only used to patterns like the image showed. I think the English word is "chart". But I'll try writing it out

Used abbreviations:
p
k
k through back of loop = ktbl
p through back of loop = ptbl

Twists for RS
[A] k into front of 2nd st, k into back of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together
[E] k into front of 2nd st, p into front of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together
[C] k into back of 2nd st, k into front of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together
[D] p into back of 2nd st, k into front of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together

27 stitches per row
Row 1
p, [A], ktbl, [A], 2ktbl, [E], 2p, [E], 2p, [C], 9p
Row 2
8k, ptbl, p, ptbl, 3k, p, 3k, p, 3ptbl, p, 2ptbl, p, k
Row 3
[A], ktbl, [A], 2ktbl, [E], 2p, [E], 2p, [A], k, [C], 7p
Row 4
6k, [C]WS, ptbl, p, ptbl, p, 3k, p, 3k, [E]WS, 2ptbl, p, 2ptbl, p

With [C]WS and [E]WS I mean that these are described as [C] and [E] but this time on the wrong-side of the knitting and thus not as mentioned in the symbol list...

I hope it makes sense I checked what I wrote thrice and hope this means it is flawless .

And thanks for the kind words, Megan. I admit that I lost some hope after all the trying, but it is all back now

BTW, I changed the [b] into [E] as the capital B doesn't show in the final version...
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:10 PM   #5
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I'm not sure that I understand the problem that you're having. It looks like the odd numbered rows may be the RS and the even numbered rows may be the WS. If you follow the directions as given for A, E, C and D just as they are written for the rows, does something strange happen to the pattern of leaves on the RS? This pattern is different from the ones you may be used to where the twisted st is only worked on the RS rows. What happens if you follow the directions as given?
The online book that you link to looks wonderful. Thanks very much for the link.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:50 AM   #6
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Yes, you're right - in this pattern the RS are odd and the WS are even. So you read the odd lines from right to left, and the even from left to right - just like you knit them.

The descriptions of the twists only count for the odd rows (RS). I have tried to interpret [C]WS as "p into back of 2nd st, p into front of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together" - so p instead of k. This seems to work. But when I try to do the same for E[WS], thus "p into front of 2nd st, k into front of 1st st, slide both sts off left needle together" I get a strange hole in the knitting and the relief doesn't look the way it is supposed to be at all So it ain't as easy as just inserting k for p "on the way back".
I am confused about it myself, so I can't explain it well... I just know that whatever I try doesn't work

The book is great, indeed I'm quite thrilled that it is to be found online I borrowed it from the library myself, but had to bring it back of course
I already made the star and heart on p50, the butterfly blocks on p51, the bamboo rib on p57, the flower sprigs on p100 and the heart on p101. So if anybody has problems with those, I should be able to help them out It took me a while to figure out the butterflies, heart (p101) and flower sprigs, the other 3 are just an alteration of p and k - I think it is great how much you can do with just those two options
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:37 AM   #7
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You may well be right that the pattern was omitted from the edition of the book that was scanned online. And it may be because the instructions were incomplete. If you want to continue with the pattern, I would try looking at the actual pattern photo and figuring out how to make the twist on the WS that will continue the direction of the twisted sts on the RS. Even if you don't get the individual stitch twist correct, you should be able to move the line of the stems or leaves in the direction that will mimic the photo.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #8
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Thanks for your trust, but I didn't manage to do that... I'm not very experienced in cable knitting (which I think might be useful here). I don't mind if the pattern isn't exactly followed, but I myself just can't figure out how I can get the line of the leaves in the direction that will mimic the photo.

I've thought about omitting the twist in the WS, but this means the leaves are under the same angle all the time while I really like how they have a steep angle on the outer side in the beginning and then a steep angle on the inner side towards the tip of the leave.

Here's an example of my last try:


So if somebody knows how to get that steep angle, twists or no twists - I'm very interested I haven't been able to find it in any of the books in our local library yet. Or online... I really feel like I should be able to find it in a good book about cable knitting - I mean, it's almost a very small cable
Maybe I just need more experience and try in another half year or so? It is just that I wanted to use it for my project... And I really hate it when I can't do something while I feel the answer is just around the corner

Thanks for all the kind words.
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