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Old 03-16-2005, 06:45 PM   #1
ekgheiy
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Another One Bites the Dust
Another One Bites the Dust:

Ever since the infamous poncho (Martha's, that is ), a lady expressed serious interest in paying me to knit one for her. I told her that the knit pattern had not yet been released, but I would email her when it was released. I sent an email to her when Lionbrand released their pattern. I couldn't see myself feeling good about making the poncho in Homespun, so I suggested that she consider alternative yarns. We went back and forth about realistically affordable yarns and since I told her that I had not worked w/ Patons Classic Wool BUT I had never heard any complaints about them either, she "semi"-decided on Patons. By that time, however, I had already sent her an estimate in Homespun, which came out to $97.70. I thought that was fair, especially considering that ponchos in some retail stores are a lot more than that!! Long story short ... she thought $97.70 was too expensive... (Of course it would have been more money with Patons too.)

Go figure!

:rollseyes:

When you await an estimate from someone, you have an idea of the maximum you're willing to pay. So I can't help but wonder how much she expected to pay; what was her "maximum" figure? 35 bucks?!!

Yeah right ...
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:48 PM   #2
KellyK
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You should have HER buy her OWN stinkin yarn...if she can find it cheaper, good for her! :P Then, just tell her you will charge so much per hour or per yard to knit it for her. Alot of folks have no idea what yarn costs.....
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Old 03-16-2005, 10:01 PM   #3
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Also, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to knit something by hand. I certainly didn't know this before I started.

Most people in the US have been conditioned by Wal*Mart, Target and other large retailers to expect to pay low prices for quality merchandise. There's no way a hand-knitter buying small batches of yarn can compete with a factory in China.
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Old 03-16-2005, 10:17 PM   #4
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Hi Ek, I ask if anyone would knit the poncho for me on here with no response!!!!!!! So i thought gee no one needs money... :thinking:

Anyway, I have a lady knitting my Throw. :XX: I am thrilled to say the least as i did not want to knit it myself. Lost the desire for fear of ot many mistakes :crying:

I agreed to pay her $150.00 which i think is fair. The yarn cost $248.00 or $250.00.... I might as well pay her to knit the throw or the yarn would sit in the bag forever.
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Old 03-16-2005, 11:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Flappy
Most people in the US been conditioned by Wal*Mart, Target and other large retailers to expect to pay low prices for quality merchandise. There's no way a hand-knitter buying small batches of yarn can compete with a factory in China.
Agreed! Interesting wal-mart facts:
Nearly 80% of all merchandise on Wal-Martís Shelves is not made in USA. 53% of Wal-Martís imports are made in China.
In 2003, Walmart made 256 BILLION dollar in profits; the net worth of sam walton's heirs increased 8 billion dollars (from 94B to 102B)....less than 1% of that could pay for health care for all of its employees, yet less than a third of them have health insurance, which, naturally, isn't 100% coverage... and these employees make an average of 12 grand a year, which is BELOW the poverty line for a family of 3.

here is my reference for this info... i was doing research when i heard we *might* be getting one in our town last year... alas, it is nearly built and set to open this year sometime.

here is a pdf file of a study done by Penn State last October about how Walmart perpetuates a poverty-level society.

This effects *any* person in retail, not just knitters/crocheters/other crafty people who are trying to sell a high-quality product. Our local butcher shop sells SUPERB quality meat and dairy products, but at a higher cost than walmart... so when walmart moves in, here comes good prices, but there goes good quality. I'd rather pay more for something of quality, than less for something that's junk. I'll admit that I'm a yarn snob, too, when it comes to quality, and value for the money. Awareness is the key though; my DH's brother and his family shop at the walmart in the next town over **exclusively** and they can't wait until it opens here; they're not interested in/aware of how it effects our local economy. But when one of them loses a job b/c Walmart can import it cheaper, maybe they'll take the blinders off.
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Old 03-16-2005, 11:21 PM   #6
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Brava! Brava!
Thank you, Hildegard_von_Knittin! Well said (er, written)! I hate Walmart. Yet, I often think I should go and take advantage of their prices since my tax dollars are subsidizing it! I think it, but I DON'T do it! The NY Times indicated that many Walmart employees receive Food Stamps as well as Medicaid. Talk about corporate welfare!!! grrrr . . .

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Old 03-17-2005, 01:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hildegard_von_Knittin
Awareness is the key though; my DH's brother and his family shop at the walmart in the next town over **exclusively** and they can't wait until it opens here; they're not interested in/aware of how it effects our local economy. But when one of them loses a job b/c Walmart can import it cheaper, maybe they'll take the blinders off.
I agree with you soo much!
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Old 03-17-2005, 01:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by KellyK
You should have HER buy her OWN stinkin yarn...if she can find it cheaper, good for her! :P Then, just tell her you will charge so much per hour or per yard to knit it for her. Alot of folks have no idea what yarn costs.....
Oh yes, she knew she had the buy the yarn. I've heard a few horror stories about knitters fronting the cost of materials only to have the client back out of the agreement. I learn from other's mistakes; I wasn't going to buy the yarn up front.

Originally Posted by Flappy
Also, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to knit something by hand. I certainly didn't know this before I started.
I honestly think she has an idea of the time and effort it takes because she does crafts too, just not knitting or crochet.

Originally Posted by Anne
Hi Ek, I ask if anyone would knit the poncho for me on here with no response!!!!!!! So i thought gee no one needs money... :thinking:

Anyway, I have a lady knitting my Throw. :XX: I am thrilled to say the least as i did not want to knit it myself. Lost the desire for fear of ot many mistakes :crying:

I agreed to pay her $150.00 which i think is fair. The yarn cost $248.00 or $250.00.... I might as well pay her to knit the throw or the yarn would sit in the bag forever.
Damn! I totally didn't see that post! I did see your post about finding someone to knit your afghan for you, but you had already found someone by the time I read the post. :( Damn! ekgheiy slaps herself with a few wet noodles for snoozing

But do keep me in mind if you are in need of a fellow knitter. Send a PM though, I'm bound to see it then...

Originally Posted by Hildegard_von_Knittin
Originally Posted by Flappy
Most people in the US been conditioned by Wal*Mart, Target and other large retailers to expect to pay low prices for quality merchandise. There's no way a hand-knitter buying small batches of yarn can compete with a factory in China.
Agreed! Interesting wal-mart facts:
Nearly 80% of all merchandise on Wal-Martís Shelves is not made in USA. 53% of Wal-Martís imports are made in China.
In 2003, Walmart made 256 BILLION dollar in profits; the net worth of sam walton's heirs increased 8 billion dollars (from 94B to 102B)....less than 1% of that could pay for health care for all of its employees, yet less than a third of them have health insurance, which, naturally, isn't 100% coverage... and these employees make an average of 12 grand a year, which is BELOW the poverty line for a family of 3.

here is my reference for this info... i was doing research when i heard we *might* be getting one in our town last year... alas, it is nearly built and set to open this year sometime.

here is a pdf file of a study done by Penn State last October about how Walmart perpetuates a poverty-level society.

This effects *any* person in retail, not just knitters/crocheters/other crafty people who are trying to sell a high-quality product. Our local butcher shop sells SUPERB quality meat and dairy products, but at a higher cost than walmart... so when walmart moves in, here comes good prices, but there goes good quality. I'd rather pay more for something of quality, than less for something that's junk. I'll admit that I'm a yarn snob, too, when it comes to quality, and value for the money. Awareness is the key though; my DH's brother and his family shop at the walmart in the next town over **exclusively** and they can't wait until it opens here; they're not interested in/aware of how it effects our local economy. But when one of them loses a job b/c Walmart can import it cheaper, maybe they'll take the blinders off.
It's an aggravating situation Hilde. :( I admit I take advantage of the Target bargains, but that's because I can't afford higher prices. If I could afford better, best believe I would shop differently. It's just a domino effect really, so it's a tough situation.
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Old 03-17-2005, 02:17 PM   #9
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Even worse- WalMart is closing a store in Canada because the workers unionized. Women and unionization is the topic for my Women Studies class research project. Very timely, Hilde. Even more worse :rollseyes: , I live in an area where WalMart is the only game within 95 miles. After my husband's layoff, I've been much more sensitive to these issues, yet I can't always avoid buying from the enemy.
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Old 03-17-2005, 03:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
KellyK
Alot of folks have no idea what yarn costs.....
You're so very right.

Quote:
Flappy
Also, I think most people don't realize how long it takes to knit something by hand. I certainly didn't know this before I started.

Most people in the US have been conditioned by Wal*Mart, Target and other large retailers to expect to pay low prices for quality merchandise. There's no way a hand-knitter buying small batches of yarn can compete with a factory in China.
I didn't know how long it took either, before I started....yet I always had respect for the skills of the crafter. You're also so right about the conditioning and the Chinese cheating by slashing their actual costs in half of what the going market is on the international trade.

Not only that, beginning back on January 1st of this year, when US trade regulations were relaxed even more, they sent us (in January alone) the entire volume of goods they sent the entire prior year (read that again, that's over 260-odd BILLION in goods flooding our market in 1 {one} month). Don't believe me? Watch Lou Dobb's on CNN sometime and hear it for yourself. Imagine what's going to happen next. Seems a wide-spread problem throughout all industries in this country.

Quote:
Hildegard_von_Knittin
Nearly 80% of all merchandise on Wal-Martís Shelves is not made in USA. 53% of Wal-Martís imports are made in China.

... and these employees make an average of 12 grand a year, which is BELOW the poverty line for a family of 3.

But when one of them loses a job b/c Walmart can import it cheaper, maybe they'll take the blinders off.
I soooo agree with you Hildegard. To be fair though, it's worth mentioning that I just picked up some acrylic's there and to be honest, I checked the labels and both the Red Heart and "Wally-World's" brand, Mainstay's, state it's made in the US. I am aware that MANY other items in their stores are direct imports however.

I agree with everyone about the poverty issues mentioned through this topic...it's the case here where I'm livin'. BTW, 12 grand is below the poverty line for 1 person, let alone 3. Again, to be fair...it's the same at my local K-mart's as well....have a family member workin' there for over 26 years, and she's now down to 32 hours a week....and prayin' she'll make it until retirement (if anything's left).

(Warning, Hap's on a roll here in the next three paragraphs)
Hey...years ago they made a song about just how bad things were my town (and in other similar towns in America)...Living here today is far worse than in the 80's when the song came out...those closing factories are either all torn down now or bare. Only a few properties have been rebuilt into Service industry sites for (mainly temporary jobs, whether they're addressed that way or not): low pay, no benefits, sketchy schedules, and inestimable employee "churnover". OR some half-baked storage warehouse with low pay, sketchy benefits-if any, 12 hour rotating shifts and inestimable employee "churnover." In return and along with skills testing, full physicals, drug tests and background checks, these jobs "Require": "experienced, dedicated, flexible, positive, motivated, multi-task and detail oriented, take charge-'assume ownership'" employees with steady and verifiable work histories?!!! I've even seen ($8/hr) Front Desk Receptionist job ads which demand 4 year degrees. How's that for "screening" versus the American Dream?

Trust me ... when/if someone loses their job to cheap competition, nobody is gonna care except the affected ones like you said. In my area, we've seen this problem for at least 2 decades through Steel and other industries (like Textiles)...only now the rest of the country is getting a taste of this. It's real sour, isn't it?!!!! The worst part is NOBODY is gonna care. Unfortunately, "Look for the Union Label" is as ancient history as "pride in workmanship", because to the consumer or the employer, those ideals have been replaced by "more for less" and "lower cost or nothing at all".

If we work with yarn, we do it as a labor of love. We cannot expect to make (much of) a profit as long as the scales are tilted as they are presently. In the back of my mind I dread the thought of actually becoming a new age version of the old, literal term for "spinster" in this economy....so I pick and choose what I do according to what makes me happy...not the rest of the demanding, instant gratification world.

Quote:
Gatomoso
The NY Times indicated that many Walmart employees receive Food Stamps as well as Medicaid. Talk about corporate welfare!!! grrrr . . .
I don't have much of a financial choice these days. But I am aware that NOT ALL of their prices are lower than elsewhere. Like any other place you might think to shop....know your prices ahead of time. If you can buy it elsewhere at a similar savings, you'll get the best bargain's wherever you go.

My own personal comments, which you fine people have yet to cover....

-The money the Chinese are taking in (that is, at half the cost of the rest of the world economy's going rate for the same crap) is being saved and used largely to stockpile their military. So head down to your local Wal-Mart and buy them a bullet or a bomb, today. Wal-Mart might as well use a smiling Red bullet or bomb instead of their current logo. One day we might see one of those bullets or bombs and they won't be smilin'.

-The Chinese aren't the only people that can do things in large numbers. If we dumped our entire economy into them, it wouldn't buy one of their people FREEDOM.

-We too are known for working in masses...and we should again, because this is a one way trade to nowhere as far as I see it.

-I was told by a Chinese immigrant that the Chinese are so anti-American, he was unable to return to China for even a family visit. He would be considered a "traitor and a spy", and possibly killed, for simply having moved here to find a better life. But it's okay for the Chinese to infringe daily upon yet another inventor's patent.....talk about hypocrites.
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