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Old 04-25-2006, 11:12 PM   #1
DoulaLyndsey
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New here, but have a question about japanese short rows!
I'm making a diaper soaker for DD and am trying the japanese short row method since every other one I've tried has looked awful. I'm following the directions from Nona knits blog and the wrap that I did on the 'knit' side looks perfect, however, since I'm knitting the soaker in the round, there is no 'purl' side, so how to I do the wrap? I tried just doing it the same way as I did the knit side, and it worked alright, but there's still a tiny hole, and the perfectionist that I am just HAS to get rid of it . Can anyone help me or instruct me?
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:36 AM   #2
Jackie F.
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good question -- yikes!
Wow, that's a tough question! I searched the internet, but only found references to the Pricilla Gibson-Roberts book Knitting in the Old Way. Even though you're knitting in the round, wouldn't you have to turn your work around to actually make the short rows?

If you DO turn your work around and could purl up to the pinned loop, then you could exactly follow Nona's instructions (making certain that your pinned loop goes on the left needle before the stitch that gets slipped from left to right to left again).

Please disregard: If there is a way to only work on the RS and do short rows without turning the work around (What's a good synonym for oxymoronical? I can't picture doing short rows without turning the work! ), then you could knit until there is one stitch before the pinned stitch. Don't work this stitch. Just turn your work around to do a P2tog. Put the pinned loop on the left needle and follow that with slipping the first stitch on the right needle to the left needle next to the pinned loop. Now P2tog. Turn your work back around and continue. The problem with this explanation is that you'd have to be working across the very stitches that aren't supposed to be worked during the short row -- so how in the world would you get there without turning and working your way back to them?!

If no one else is able to answer your post, but you do find out what to do, please, please, please let us know! Thanks!!

See my next post for a better explanation.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:41 AM   #3
DoulaLyndsey
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I did turn the work once. Lemme see if I can explain.

I knit until I hit the first marker, turned, placed the safety pin and then purled back to the second marker, turned again, placed another safety pin, knit back to the first marker then placed the safety pinned loop on the left needle and knit 2 together. That part looks excellent, my only problem is I kept on knitting around until I came to the other safety pin and then was confused what to do, so I just slipped that safety pinned loop on the left needle and knit 2 together just like I did the first time. It did close the big gap, but it's not invisible like the other side is, which bugs me.

Hope this makes sense, I'm completely confused as to what to do!
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:57 AM   #4
kemp
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THIS is a great japanese short row tutorial.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:03 PM   #5
Jackie F.
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I think I've got it this time!
I think I got it this time! [Please disregard my previous post that tried to explain how to take care of the purlside markers.] After the first marker (knitside marker) has been taken care of and you've continued to knit around almost to the 2nd marker (the purlside marker), stop when your pinned stitch is the 2nd st on your left needle. You'll work the 1st st and the formerly pinned loop together. Here's how: Insert your right needle tip up through the pinned loop. Move it behind and to the right of the 1st st on your left needle (so that it crosses behind the 1st st). Place the loop on the left needle so it is now the 1st st. Then, K2tog these two sts. This will mimic what happens if you were working on the purlside in rows back and forth. It sounded to me like the criss cross action Nona was talking about to close the purl gap is important and still should be done, even if from the knit side. Also, I noticed that position of the st that gets worked together with the pinned loop are different for the knitside vs. the purlside: When you do the knitside ones, the pinned loop gets pulled to the left; when you so the purlside ones ITR from the front, the pinned loop gets pulled to the right. I hope this helps!

I had to do some short rows last night on my Picovoli, which is done in the round. I did wraps on the short rows. When I got to the part where you take care of the wraps, I discovered that I had to do the purl wraps by knitting around to them and doing a K2tog. That made me think further on your question with the Japanese version of short rows. Today, I looked at the pictures Nona has of closing the purl gap, but imagined what it would look like from the knitside... Japanese short rows are way cool!
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:16 PM   #6
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Thanks for the help! I just gave that a try and it still left a little gap, but I suppose it's not that noticeable so perfectionist me will just have to settle since this method looks better than any method I've tried before.
Thanks again!!
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:16 PM   #7
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Thanks for the help! I just gave that a try and it still left a little gap, but I suppose it's not that noticeable so perfectionist me will just have to settle since this method looks better than any method I've tried before.
Thanks again!!
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:26 AM   #8
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TO GET RID OF THAT LITTLE HOLE, YOU KNIT THE WRAP ALSO. FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE (sorry caps) now on a knit side you get to the end and want to include the wrapped stitch,,, bring the wrap up on your needle and knit it along wit the regular stitch...this pushes the wrap behind the knit stitch but also eliminates that little annoying hole.....but if you are turning after the wrap stitch you have to wrap the next stitch again...thats 2 wraps and when you get back to this 2x wrapped stitch, you will knit the stitch, plus the 2 wraps. and vise versa for the purls. hope tht helps..lemme know...i'm going to go check out that japanese wrap...thems my peoples.
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:25 PM   #9
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PU wraps/loops on RS of short rows ITR
Zukes, I think we're getting what to do about the wraps (or pinned loops). What the question was is how to take care of wraps/loops IN THE ROUND. ...specifically the wraps/loops on the right end of the short rows. Once you're done wrapping/pinning on the purl side and turn your work for the last time, then you'll only be knitting on the knit side. It's easy to pick up the ones that are on the left end of a short row because they're the ones that are meant to be picked up on the knit side. Once you get done with picking up the left wraps/loops, you can't turn your work in the round to go back and pick up the ones on the purl side like you do with straight needles. So, you have to continue knitting around until you get to the wraps/loops on the right end of the short rows. For wraps, you could just pick up the wrap and wrapped stitch together and K2tog, like you said. We were curious how you do that with Japanese short rows since the pinned loop needs to criss cross another stitch (see Nona's pics on Closing the Gap on the Purl Side: http://nonaknits.typepad.com/nonakni...se_short_.html). Unlike the wrapping method of short rows, you have to set up your K2tog. When you're knitting with straight needles and are on the purl side, you can do like Nona: She pulls the pinned loop to the left and in front of the slipped st. Before the P2tog, the first 2 sts on the left needle are: 1) the slipped st, and 2) the pinned loop. On the knit side ITR, you could still pull the pinned loop in the proper direction. But to do this, you'd have to stop one st short so that your pinned st is the second st on your left needle. Using your right needle tip, pull the pinned loop up from underneath onto the left needle so that it crosses behind the first st. This action should mimic Nona's pic. Nona slipped a st first, but in our case, we didn't have to since our st is unworked and already in place. After putting the pinned loop on the left needle, the pinned loop and formerly first st can now be knit together. By doing the K2tog, you'd still be mirroring the P2tog that is done on the purl side with straight needles.

Whew! I wish I could condense my words! :rofling:

:thinking: I'm curious how many of our forum readers have done Japanese short rows ITR. There is information on the internet for doing it with straight needles (Nona and others). But, I haven't yet found the official answer to taking care of the pinned loops on the right end of short rows ITR. My explanation is just an amatuer guess without having found an official answer. I plan on looking at the Gibson-Roberts book Knitting in the Old Way. I've heard that this book has that information... Also, I plan on asking people at my SnB meeting tonight.
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:49 PM   #10
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Thank you all for trying to help!! I found that if I go back and tighten the stitches around the gap that helps a lot too, so for me, its acceptable.
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