Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-30-2006, 03:47 PM   #31
CarmenIbanez
Grafting the Toe
 
CarmenIbanez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern California Desert
Posts: 5,994
Thanks: 16
Thanked 62 Times in 57 Posts
I wanted to add something about vaccines in general. It is possible today to go without inoculations for many diseases and never have to suffer the consequences of those diseases. This is because the vast majority of the rest of us are vaccinated. I know the damage that vaccines can cause. My son has permanent brain damage from mercury preservatives that were in his vaccines. I see it as a small price to pay for the millions and millions of lives that have been saved and the suffering that has been prevented by the vaccines that we have the privilege of receiving here.
CarmenIbanez is offline  

 

This advertising will not be shown to registered members. Join our free online community today!

Old 06-30-2006, 03:51 PM   #32
IndianPrincessSIP
Knitting the Flap
 
IndianPrincessSIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 351
Thanks: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Well said.
I appreciate your level headed response, and I apologize if you took personally what I meant to be a much broader implication to the medical field, at large.
I am not as informed as many of you are with this. I have not followed it for years. I read a thread at a large bulletin board once, comprised of young adults, laughing and joking about STDs and it broke my heart. I have held my breath when polio was injected into my children and they broke out in an outrageous fever, asking God why? Why must we do this?

I am but one voice Bellowing in the wind to STOP. Stop the madness of AIDS and STDs. Stop being so friggin selfish people. Do Unto Others as you would have them do unto you. Be responsible.
IndianPrincessSIP is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 03:54 PM   #33
IndianPrincessSIP
Knitting the Flap
 
IndianPrincessSIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 351
Thanks: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by CarmenIbanez
I wanted to add something about vaccines in general. It is possible today to go without inoculations for many diseases and never have to suffer the consequences of those diseases. This is because the vast majority of the rest of us are vaccinated. I know the damage that vaccines can cause. My son has permanent brain damage from mercury preservatives that were in his vaccines. I see it as a small price to pay for the millions and millions of lives that have been saved and the suffering that has been prevented by the vaccines that we have the privilege of receiving here.
Amen to that, and God Bless you for being valient and brave enough to see the larger picture.

In a perfect world....
IndianPrincessSIP is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 04:01 PM   #34
CarmenIbanez
Grafting the Toe
 
CarmenIbanez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern California Desert
Posts: 5,994
Thanks: 16
Thanked 62 Times in 57 Posts
In the end, on this site, it is all about the love and respect. I wish I could translate 1% of what I have found on this site to the rest of the world!
CarmenIbanez is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 04:08 PM   #35
IndianPrincessSIP
Knitting the Flap
 
IndianPrincessSIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 351
Thanks: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
You do.
By learning and growing in tolerance and understanding. The learning that takes place here, and like places, translates into how we act in all aspects of our lives.


I condemn no one, for actions or mistakes of the past. How could I?
I condemn no one, for trusting the medical field to be working to make this world a safer place. Why would I?
What I would like for people to see, is that it really is the blind leading the blind. Ask the questions. Follow the leadings of your heart. Explain to your children that sex is a loaded gun. Teach them values. Stop being a nation of sheples, and ask the hard question.
Believe that good can overcome. And that abstience is viable, if people can grasp the wisdom of the Golden Rule.
IndianPrincessSIP is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 04:28 PM   #36
misstialouise
Working the Gusset
 
misstialouise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,092
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Abstinence goes against our genetic make up. At a genetic level, we exist to come together and procreate...

Even when abstinence was the widely accepted 'norm', kids were still having sex, getting pregnant.. so it's not a full proof prevention...

Pure and simple.

Of course we make the choice to have sex, we choose whether or not to use protection... etc etc...

There are also cases of virgins who have had NO sexual contact (including heavy petting), who have HPV or CIN changes.

I, myself, have had to have laser therapy for CIN2 changes in my cervix. Certainly nothing I'd want anyone else to go through. I've had girlfriends with CIN3 changes. None thankfully have gone into cervical cancer.

I think a vaccine that can help prevent this is FABULOUS!

Please don't forget about the cases of rape, molestation etc. The times where choice is taken away from you, you need to be protected against too.

Of course in an ideal world, we'd need no vaccines, our children would be safe and this thread would not need to exist.

The best we can do is educate our children, help keep them as safe as *we* can, and hope that they make good choices.

Forgive me if this post is a little disjointed, it's only 6:30am and I've been up for about 10 minutes with no tea...
__________________
-----BEGIN KNITTER'S GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Version: 1.1
KCR++ Exp+ SPM+ *Options+++ Addi+ Wood+ Cas+ Cot++ Wool+++ Lux++ Hemp++ Nov+ Stash++ Scale+ Fin+ Ent Lace++ Tex++ Felt+++ Flat Circ+++ DPN ML2 Swatch+ KIP Blog SNB GaugeDK(F) WIP+(++) ALTSw+Sp+Cr+X

------END KNITTER'S GEEK CODE BLOCK------

On my Options:
Drake the Dreaded Dragon Backpack - girly version for my niece for Christmas


I'M IN !! I'm vintagegrrl on Ravelry
misstialouise is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 04:48 PM   #37
IndianPrincessSIP
Knitting the Flap
 
IndianPrincessSIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 351
Thanks: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Nothing to forgive. Your sentiment is clear. That's a good thing, in my book.
:D


Here's a scenario.

Let's say next week, Bird Flu descended on America. Did all the horrible worse case scenario's imagined. Let's say an broadcast was issued that if you left your house, you would die.
Would you leave your house?
Of course not.

But people still have casual and unprotected sex.
Incredible.

Let's say you just saw a news flash that cucumbers were poison. Never eat another cucumber or you will surely die.
Why you would.
You never again would make a cucumber tomato salad. And it would be no big deal. Life would go on, a cucumberless life, and you wouldn't think anymore about it. But sex? Now that's a whole horse of a different color.

Do not I repeat do not ask that people stop having sex, anytime or anyplace or with whomever they want. We want it, and come life or death we will have it!

Genetic makeup?
No I beg to differ, that's an excuse in a hedonistic society to forego guilt about doing the right thing. Period
IndianPrincessSIP is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 05:02 PM   #38
carollovesyarn
Turning the Heel
 
carollovesyarn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Napa, CA where I wish yarn grew on vines
Posts: 752
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to carollovesyarn
I don't think anyone is saying that this vaccine is a complete solution nor that it should replace Pap smears.

Quote:
Gardasil does not reduce the importance of the routine screenings that are responsible for cutting cervical cancer rates in the United States by 75 percent. Gardasil protects against two high-risk strains of human papillomavirus that cause most of the infections that lead to cervical cancer.
''You're preventing the bulk of these infections, but not all of them," said Bruce Gellin, one of the 15 panel members. ''Even if you're vaccinated, it doesn't mean that you're absolutely prevented from developing these infections," said Gellin, director of the National Vaccine Program Office.

While Merck highlighted the estimated $4 billion to $6 billion spent each year on cervical cancer screening, a company executive said it would promote the vaccine as complementing, not competing with, annual Pap tests.

''This company is absolutely committed to cervical cancer screening," Dr. Eliav Barr, Merck's senior director of clinical vaccine and biologics research, told the panel. ''This vaccine is not a replacement for cervical cancer screening."

The company also wants to market Gardasil to boys as young as 9, though the panel did not vote on that issue. Monica Farley, an infectious disease specialist who served as the panel's acting chairwoman, said the question of whether to sell the vaccine to boys was not on a list of items to be voted on prepared by the FDA. Males spread the human papillomavirus to women through sexual contact. Barr said Merck proposes a label for the vaccine that would permit ''gender-neutral" vaccination.

Lauri Markowitz, a Centers for Disease Control epidemiologist, cautioned others on the panel not to read too much into Merck estimates that vaccinating boys could prevent thousands of infections among women.
From http://www.nccc-online.org/ :
Quote:
-11% of United States women report that they do not have regular cervical cancer screenings

-In the United States, About 14,000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer disease each year and more than 3,900 women die in the USA each year from this disease.

-Women in developing countries account for about 85 percent of both the yearly cases of cervical cancer (estimated at 493,000 cases worldwide) and the yearly deaths from cervical cancer (estimated at 273,500 deaths worldwide).

-In the majority of developing countries, cervical cancer remains the number-one cause of cancer-related deaths among women.

-A woman who does not have cervical cancer screening on a regular basis significantly increases her chances of developing cervical cancer.

-High-Risk HPV Types are directly related to cervical cancer, yet many women are unaware of what HPV is or the relationship it has to cervical cancer disease.

Even if a women has had the HPV/cervical cancer vaccine, she will continue to require a cervical cancer screen by the Pap test. At this time, this vaccine only protects against 70% of the potential cervical cancer cases. The Pap smear has reduced cervical cancer rates in the United States by more then 70%. Pap smears, like the one you receive regularly, is the single most effective cancer screen in the history of medicine. Remember to have your Pap test. Early detection saves lives.
These are facts. Women, no matter how they contract it, die or suffer from HPV-caused cervical cancer. Men can also suffer from cancer induced by HPV.

Originally Posted by IndianPrincessSIP
A turnaround to morally motivated behavior is really the only answer. Like it or not, it will work, ...
To me this statement says abstinence will end the occurrence of HPV-related illnesses. Do you really truly believe that the world's entire population will follow 100% abstinence? Do you really believe that there is only one answer for an issue such as this? I find it hard to swallow that because you believe that abstinence is the only answer, that a vaccine should not in fact be celebrated. This is a vaccine that may lead to other similar treatments for other diseases. This is a vaccine that will save lives worldwide.

Also there are other ways of contracting STDs. I don't think that rape and sexual abuse are morally acceptable, but they will unfortunately continue to occur and the victims will be at a high risk of contracting STDs.

I'm still trying to grasp your point. Abstinence until marriage? Then sex is ok? What makes you think that all sex outside of marriage is immoral?

Respectfully disagreeing and openly celebrating news of the vaccine's approval,
Carol
__________________
WIP: GAAA for m&d, purse for grandma (needs assembly), Grannie Smith Cardi (still), 3 quilts, maybe five

In the Wings: felted clogs, socks

Recent FO: dishcloth for swap, booties for cousins babe

KALs: Grannie Smith, Monthly Dishcloths, Mason-Dixon
carollovesyarn is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 05:15 PM   #39
IndianPrincessSIP
Knitting the Flap
 
IndianPrincessSIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 351
Thanks: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Carol~
Thank you for the links and the facts, also your arguments regarding my blanket assumptions that abstience is the complete cure-all for these terrible maladies. Am I advocating an about face of morality? Yes, am I advocating no sex until marriage? In a perfect world yes, unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world, and my perfect world ideal may not be yours. What I am advocating is responsible behavior.

Abstinience and I will not be swayed is the answer to these sexual preditoristic diseases. It only makes sense. Don't do it, you won't get it. Be sure of your partner, make sure he/she isn't predisposed to casual sex.

Do I really believe that the world will follow 100 Percent Abstinence?
Why is it any different than the ficticious scenarios I put forth formerly? Why is sex so galdern important? Do you really think that you would shrival up and die if you don't have sex?
IndianPrincessSIP is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 05:21 PM   #40
misstialouise
Working the Gusset
 
misstialouise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,092
Thanks: 6
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by IndianPrincessSIP
Genetic makeup?
No I beg to differ, that's an excuse in a hedonistic society to forego guilt about doing the right thing. Period
I totally disagree with this. We did not survive as a species through practiced abstinence and no 'pre-marital' sex. Men & women came together, and children were made.

It's still prevalent in tribal culture, that as soon as a female is ready to procreate, she is 'married off' (or whatever the equivalent is), and this can be as early as 9 or 10 years old.

We are, essentially, animals.

When it comes down to it. We will have differing opinions, and that's cool.
__________________
-----BEGIN KNITTER'S GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Version: 1.1
KCR++ Exp+ SPM+ *Options+++ Addi+ Wood+ Cas+ Cot++ Wool+++ Lux++ Hemp++ Nov+ Stash++ Scale+ Fin+ Ent Lace++ Tex++ Felt+++ Flat Circ+++ DPN ML2 Swatch+ KIP Blog SNB GaugeDK(F) WIP+(++) ALTSw+Sp+Cr+X

------END KNITTER'S GEEK CODE BLOCK------

On my Options:
Drake the Dreaded Dragon Backpack - girly version for my niece for Christmas


I'M IN !! I'm vintagegrrl on Ravelry
misstialouise is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recommended Yarn for Afghans Peppercaperemma General Knitting 23 03-07-2010 04:37 PM
Using a different wool than recommended KnittyNora1 General Knitting 2 12-28-2008 07:10 PM
Recommended Sewing Machine? Knit4Fun The Lounge 22 05-16-2008 07:03 PM
Switching from English to Continental? Recommended? boo1 General Knitting 19 11-20-2007 02:07 PM
any recommended books on intarsia? Alena How-to Questions 7 08-19-2005 11:50 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.