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Old 04-20-2007, 07:48 PM   #41
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I have to say that I had a loving, happy daughter who liked me and then one day she turned 15.

I am glad that we lived through it.

I don't have any advice (mine would have been the same as Cawthraven's, well put dear! )

Keep your chin up! I'm pulling for ya!
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Old 04-20-2007, 07:53 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by snowbear
I gave in when I thought my duaghter had changed, when in fact she only changed to get what she wanted then changed back.
Ouch! Been there and kind of did that (much shorter/less intense groundings). I've been bamboozled before. I won't be done that way again.

Just so y'all know...I have a 12yo (soon to be 13yo) son. His personality is WAY different than dd's. He is so much easier going. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't have to worry about this with him, but from the looks of it, I probably won't have to. Dd was much, much worse at his age.

Now where is that Amaretto Sour...if I were the drinking type, I would have drank a few by now.

Oh, and BTW, dh asked her to do something and got a nasty reply back...nice way to start, eh? I --- will --- not --- give --- in --- !!!
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:03 PM   #43
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I apologize for not making clear exactly what I mean by a parent being a friend. Of course I'm not implying being a friend in the sense a teen friend of theirs would be or someone who declines to hold their child accountable for their negative behaviors, but often times kids tend to see their parents not even so much as parents, but their enemies. Many times a kid will think their parents won't let them do certain things just because they are mean or they take certain privileges away for absolutely no reason and their image of their parents becomes that of an enemy. I don't know, I guess it's easier to say than describe because I know the relationship I have and have always had with my parents and while I always viewed them as my parents, I also viewed them as my friends.

If a parent doesn't hold a child accountable, that's not, in my opinion, being a "friend" like parent, that's just being a lousy parent who doesn't want to deal with the problems in front of them.

When I think of a friend, I think of a person who is there for you when you need them, a person who will pick you up when you are down, a person who will always be there for you, a person who will guide you in the right direction and tell you honestly when they think you have made a mistake or done something wrong, when you should apologize, etc. There's no reason a parent cannot also fill that role. Just because a parent can be considered a friend, doesn't take away from the fact they are still the parent, they still make the rules and there are going to be consequences when those rules are broken.

I guess I mean basically, don't build up a wall that your child cannot pass...I don't think it's wise to take the approach that well, I'm the parent and that's that. No relationship is one sided and parenting shouldn't be one sided either.

Back on'm glad you had the chance to talk to your daughter and hopefully she will realize the seriousness of the situation. Hopefully things will only get better instead of worse and the outcome will be positive. I'll be thinking of you and hoping all goes well.
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:28 PM   #44
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I am going through asimilar thing with my 15yo DD
I agree that being a parent odes not mean being a teen aged friend (yes, yes, yes, you are right...) but to be a TRUE friend (I do not like when you do that, let me know when your willing to be MY friend again)

Taking away gifts and privaleges is needed (Cell phone, I-Pod, fancy Camp, after school events, TV, Radio, Movies, even family outings *yes I have gotten a babysitter for a child that acted badly when the family went out* or going with me to my summer job at a Summer camp)
but remember, earning back priveleges is a gradual ting
the small ones come first, the big ones LAST.

My 15yo is not living with us after her last day of school this year until she earns the right back. We go to coourt next month to have her temperary guardian set in place, and to have her take the placement exam for Public school. She has been told since she was 8 that ANY drug use will result in her living elsewhere. She pushed that envelope, this is her ONE cance to earn her way back into the family. Once she is allowed to live with us, she has to earn back the right to go to after school activities, to watch movies or TV, or to take drama class.

She has also been stealing, Lieing, and being disrespectful. if she does ANY one thing she looses staying @ school and going to her school trip.
she did not believe me last time I spoke to her, this time she did. I have told all the administrators at the school what she has been doing, so she cannot hide within their 'Support Track" that is in place to help kids get though innapropriate behaviors or troubling times. the problem with it is that the Support staff, is not allowed to discuss what they hear in session with the Dorm parents unless it is life threatening. So the Drinking, Multi partner S*x activity, sneaking off campus, never gets divulged to the dorm parents who are supposed to be MONITORING the kids behavior. I do not tollerate that kind of sneaking around, and coddling. One of the things my daughter has to do to get school activities back, is appologise to my Mother who paid for her Private school this past year, for her breaking the rules and the LAW while at this school.

let me stop rantgin about my own problems

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Old 04-20-2007, 08:48 PM   #45
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Hey Demonica...thanks for the clarification. There's so much of that "friend" talk thing out there...I hope I didn't offend you.

Ecb, wow! My daughter's issues seem so small compared to your's. I'm so sorry!!! Hang in there dear. I think it speaks volumes at the steps you are taking.

I have always told my daughter that I love her no matter what. She will never do anything that will take my love away. However, I cannot stand her behavior right now. We told her that she would never treat one of her friends the way she treats us. I told her than when she's about to speak to us in a nasty tone, to try to stop and imagine herself saying it to her best friend. Who knows...

Anyhow, as I keep saying, y'all are the BEST!
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:02 PM   #46
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I am sorry you are going trough this. I have 15yo DS and know how things can go at times.
I would also recomend counseling on top of the taking priviledges . I did it and we found it very helpfull. I am glad my Ds can come to me now and tell me what is bothering him without being disrespectfull.
Good luck
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:33 PM   #47
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I haven't had time to read all the replies so if I cross over what someone else has said I apologise. I was an educator for a long time, and a parent, and I've watched Dr Phil! LOL

Some comments and they are general and not intended towards you as such.

I often hear parents talking about creating rules but I often see parents allowing transgressions of those rules. The child then learns that rules aren't really rules they are power games and so on.

When you create a rule there should be clear consequences about what will happen when those rules are broken. Whining, crying and tantrums won't budge you from applying the consequence. At the same time it's important for a parent to sometimes say "I got that wrong" or "I went too far with that rule" or whatever.

Most parents get difficult periods with their teen.

I would remove the mobile unless she is earning the money to pay for i OR she 'earns' the right to have the mobile. If she gets it back and she transgresses a rule about the mobile the account is cut off again.

I may not totally remove the computer time because some..maybe not much..but some..homework etc may be achieved by looking things up BUT I would bring it out into the family living area and chain it if necessary so it can't be moved.

No, I would not pull her bed out of her room; that's dehumanising. If you think boot camp is the answer send her to boot camp proper.

I would be wary about the soccer issues and removing them from her.

You are in pain and very hurt and you need to separate (and I mean this in the nicest way *hug*) discipline tactics that are established to bring about improved behaviour and vengeance.

I would remove some things now, make it clear why they have been removed, how you feel and what expectations you have for her behaviour and demeanour towards you. Let her know that you do expect her to be angry now and resentful (because she will be - so, don't deny her that 'understanding') but that if you find she has tried to work around your rules e.g. getting someone else to establish a mobile account for her and so on, you WILL remove the soccer. But make that one soccer issue first and not the whole lot.

I am sure if you look back at her childhood you know that when you created rules YOU gave her the impression that if she waited it out no punishment really occurred. I think parents can admit that to their teens but add to's time this pattern stopped and it's stopping NOW because I think you're a golden girl and a winner and yet I'm not seeing it and I want to. You are bound to be angry right now but you don't respect me and I want you to and so we are starting again and THIS time you only get things returned and you ONLY get treats etc when you've proven yourself worthy and you shown respect to be me AND yourself.

Point out to her that bad mouthing girls don't respect themselves; at best they are cloning street gang types and street gang types don't get appointed captains of teams. Try and talk when you can be calm and if she shouts walk away. Don't yell back over your shoulder or anything. Walk away. It will be hard but don't give her YOUR usual responses.

These issues are about management and response. You need to probably correct your management and mean what you say and stick to it. Be reasonable not unreasonable. Don't go from liberal to jail like - I doubt that's natural anyway :-) Pose reasonable expectations for behaviour and verbal responses and demand (not verbally but by way of your own adherence to what you establish) positive responses.
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:43 PM   #48
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auburnchick. Just saw your post of:
Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:24 pm

Not sure how far you went with what you said you're removing but I guess if you've said all the soccer is removed you're rather stuck with that unless you wend your way very very carefully through admitting you may have gone too far. I think you all should write down the expectations and consequences so that there is a clearly established set of 'by-laws' (so to speak).

Demonica offered an excellent point I think about parents not really being sound if they don't teach consequences. Parents need to be mindful that their children will one day enter a workplace where expectations are established and where the workers cannot just think of 'self'. In a way a family is a community where all must contribute otherwise the community becomes unhealthy.

I think auburnchick you still could admit to your daughter that in some ways you believe you may have failed making her stick to rules earlier in life. That you acted out of love but.... And that you DO love her so much that it is love, not punishment, that is driving you now to ensure this time counts!

Anyway..all the best...your latest posts sounds more confident and relieved :-)
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:02 PM   #49
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This is rather late in the game here, but I just read all the posts While I agree with most of the posts on here I have to say I'm surprised at a lot of them too.

As was stated earlier the things you are taking away from her are PRIVILEGES, not Rights.

Yes, even the soccer. (sorry ladies) She won't last too long on a soccer team if she is this bad now, if she learns her lessons now, she'll have a much better chance of making it down the road.

I grew up in a fairly strict household and while I wasn't a demon-child, I wasn't an angel either. But I did have a healthy respect for my parents. They did not put up with ANYTHING. And I am a decent adult now. :P

I agree with everything you and your hubby are doing in this situation, removing the bed, wow, that takes guts. Good for you!!

It is so great to hear that there are parents out there that give a damn about how their children grow up. And are willing to not bend and give in. I live in a part of the country that is grossly overpopulated with rude, obnoxious, selfish, disgusting children.

I pray that this all works out in the end and I'm sure it will, just hang in there. You can do it.

I sincerely applaud you and your husband. You are wonderful parents, just know that. You deserve to be treated with respect, most importantly by your children.

You are in my prayers.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:29 PM   #50
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ballsmom. The issue to do with soccer for me is about degrees and degrees of issues and the fine line between punishment and vengeance.

I know as a teen girl I was goody two shoes in friends houses and loved their mums even while I was in a battle with my own.

Do you take away something where a teen MAY be at their best and may derive a lot of self esteem from?

That's such a hard call. IF the soccer removal had been threatened in the past then, yes, I can see sense if removing it now.

If it hasn't I can see arguments for and against it's removal. If auburnchick and hubby have already said it's gone pending dramatic changes then it's a done deal but those dramatic changes are better served having visual substance e.g. a list of rights/responsibilities - on both sides.

If what happens in soccer could be used as an illustrator e.g. honey, do you remember how you dealt with x or y on the team that day? That was fabulous and we'd like to see that here too..
Then some argument exists to see soccer continue.

I don't know enough to say either one way or another, but again, if the girl has been told it's gone then its gone, but one presumes she has the chance to recoup this. Not "just" wait out like perhaps before until her parents cave but actively demonstrate change. If there are a couple of months prior to that then this is achievable and perhaps some community work could be added to schedules in order to 'up' the ante on the privilege being restored.

I've seen Dr Phil mind you tell parents to remove every single toy from a child and only give one item out at a time pending behavioural changes.

But teens are young adults and if you believe deep down your teen is a good person gone astray, I think some latitude exists. Again, I don't know enough.

I had battles with my own teen but they didn't have all the toys some kids now have. They didn't have a mobile until they left home to work. They didn't have their own computer (we shared one) and so on.

I suspect we're becoming a culture of giving our kids these incredible technical privileges as a matter or course. People argue mobiles are intended only for emergency scenarios but how many people actually configure the mobile to just deliver that?

I recall seeing one Big Brother series outcome where a young teen girl had spent two thousand dollars on votes via her mobile (that her father had to pay). Why was a 13 year old given such latitude on a phone service to begin with?

I know we're moving into different topics now but I am very passionate about teaching kids online safety and overall I think we're way behind in teaching out kids to use technology well. So many are becoming slaves to the mobile or similar rather than knowing it should serve them and defined usages.
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