OT: Remember my TOXIC little brother? What to do?

[jjminarcik]

There's your answer right there. DH should not, under any circumstances feel obligated to marry a couple when he doesn't feel comfortable in doing so. If your family is going to hold it against him (or YOU) for refusing, it's THEIR problem not yours. Sometimes you have to stand your ground even if family doesn't like it, especially if you're right and doing this with a good heart. If your brother is so darn gung ho about getting married without counseling, then he should just go to the court house to get married. Bro wants to be married by a minister but doesn't want to go through counseling? Well he needs a reality check. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

Silver, you hit the nail on the head! Ditto!

My brother was in a situation where his second marriage they didn't have counseling and while they're still married, their marriage has been full of one disaster after another. I can't help but wonder why. . .

[auburnchick]

I think what's important for your hubby to remember is that he will, one day, answer to God for his actiions. I'm sure he is praying about what to do, but if he feels led by God NOT to marry them, then he has to obey God. We always feel pressure when we know the right thing to do, but others want us to do the opposite.

Stand your ground.

If your brother is so intent on getting married, he can get married in a civil ceremony.

[Kaydee]

This might be a little difficult but has your husband looked at these two like he was not related to them? If your husband would not marry these two even if he was not related to them, then why would he marry them if he was?

That's exactly what I was going to say. He needs to look long and hard at this situation and if he isn't confirtable with marrying them then he really shouldn't. Unfortunatly this is a tough situation but don't let that go against your beliefs.

[mulene]

While this is extremely difficult for you both, I would suggest your husband sticks with his gut feeling. If he wouldn't marry them if he didn't know them, as has been said, why would he marry them just because he does?

He should stick to his principles. Not because of the difficult relationships surrounding the wedding etc, but because it his moral belief that he should not marry these two people.

One should stick to ones morals, no matter how hard it is to do so. My parents, both catholics, had a moral dilemma with my second eldest brother. He was to be married in a registry office. Not even a non catholic church just a registry office and he was doing that because his bride to be was (and still is) an atheist. She would not even consider the idea of a church blessing. Due to this both my parents separately and individually decided they could not attend the wedding. It hurt my brother hugely, but I strongly believe what my parents did was right. We all had the choice to go or not - I chose to go.

I think mum partly regrets it but at the end of the day her morals were strong and she stuck by her beliefs and I respect her for that more than anything else.

[threesmom]

What a difficult situation for both you and your dh to be in! Sounds like mom is trying to take care of your brother's situation, and I'd be willing to guess this isn't the first time - it probably even contributes to making him who he is. I totally agree with others who have suggested a flat out refusal to do the ceremony, for so many reasons. Someone who is unwilling to consider counseling, and feels as though only he alone understands his relationship with his fiance does not sound like someone who will work hard when the marriage goes through those inevitable tough spots. He even sounds like someone who would blame everything on his wife - from what you mentioned on your last post, he sounds emotionally taxing to say the least. I'd be concerned for his fiance in the long run.
And as for mom, maybe you could calmly explain your and your dh need to follow your instincts, and a desire to maintain your own boundaries, which she is crossing. I'm sure you don't want to hurt her, but what she has done is just unfair.
Lots of and good luck, whatever you decide!

[letah75]

My father is an Episcopal priest, and has been for 34+ years. He will not marry someone unless the couple goes throught pre-marital counseling. Saying that, just because they "do" the counseling sessions does not mean that he will marry them. He has refused on occasion to marry couples who have "completed" the required counseling sessions. The reason? Becasue marriage is a sacrament and he would not marry them in front of God and community (effectively putting his seal on the marrige), if he feels it is not right. Now my father has been married to my mother for 46 years this August, and knows how hard/lovely/trying/uplifting marriage is.

Personally, I have been invited to many weddings over the years. I can think of 3 weddings of good friends that I politely declined the invitation. When asked why I didn't want to attend I told them as nicely as possible that my belief is that by attending a wedding I am pledging my belief in the couple, their commitment to one another, and my willingness to help them throught problems. I didn't believe that the weddings/marriages where good/healthy and I could not attend in good concious. I regretted having to say this, as it hurt feelings, but my friends know me, and know I will not go against my mores,and respected (disliked but respected) my position. I'm sad to say that all 3 ended in divorce.

1) Your brother is not very nice, and wants what he wants without working for it.

2) Your brother doesn't want a relationship with you, but would be fine with your husband officiating his wedding?!? (will you be invited?)

3) Your brother did not ask, your mother did, she is not getting married.

4) You have voiced concerns about the relationship as a whole. Could you pledge to support them in their marriage with a whole heart?

5) Your husband believes marriage is serious, is he willing to officiate knowing it is not a fully healthy relationship....knowing there is the possiblity of children being brought into the relationship?

There are many serious issues here, not the least of which is the marriage. Familial responsiblity, caring for others, responsiblity, emotional maturity, future responsiblities (children, jobs, living arrangements, money, etc.).

My person opinion? I think it's obvious :-)

I'm sure your husband will do what is right in his heart. I'm sure some of his confusion is becasue he's a caring individual and doesn't want to hurt or cause anymore problems. However, we don't have to like family, just love them.

I would rather do the right think than the easy thing....and generally those are not the same thing. It's just nice when they are.

[debinoz]

I know it would be easy for me to say, Just tell them no.", but I also understand all the family conflict that would go with that decision and how heartbreaking it would be for me, especially if it caused a riff between my mom and I.

My brother is a pastor and before he even finished his studies he warned us that he would NOT officiate any family wedding, funerals, ect.

At the end of the day, as most have said before, he has to stand by his morals and beliefs and do what HE knows is right in his heart.

[msoebel]

Thank you all for taking time the time to reply. I appreciate your honesty.

I called my sister (she lives in Washington DC) to get another family member's perspective. She said dh should say no.

I see great potential for their relationship. They really do love each other. And they have been a united front against her family (which, honestly, is even more insane than mine...). But without a willingness to accept help or to do whatever it takes to have a successful marriage, there is also a great potential for disaster here.

I really don't know what dh will decide. I have asked him to think about it...and to treat it as if the person asking was not my brother.

Misty