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Old 08-07-2007, 12:55 PM   #21
Nichan
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FINALLY: REAL CASE!!!
I remember, i asked about this issue in my previous thread...

i think like this...if they don't want the pattern buyer take profit, then why sell or give the pattern?...that's my big question...
but all responds gave me great answers...that they charge the 'time' to make the project and profit is low...
but i'm still hmmm...not full disagree about totally no-sell a.k.a charity...well, i thought, the design is 'just' a design...it's a non-physical idea, yet...but when i make it physical, i also have right to decide what i'm going to do with it: sell, charity, gift, or use it myself...the designer didn't make it physical for me, he/she helps by designing it, indeed, but to make it physical?...my hands ofcourse...and moreover, sometimes (if not always), i don't use the same type of yarn...so i must make my own adjustment...and i have to use my brain for it, too...it's weird, that the designer wants profit for themselves, but hold (for a while or forever may be) the profit for the buyer...i think, they have their own space of profit...my local terms: we have our own share of profit (pattern maker and pattern user)...well, i don't know...

i think, that's ok if someone wants to sell their knit project based on bought patterns...IF just sell...but if they ADMIT it as their own design, apply a Label on the projects...a-a-a...i will totally disagree...

i can't design any knit project myself right now...i'm beginner but i'm planning to buy the book about it in immediate time...

i wonder, if there's some knitters don't have to buy the pattern but can translate the design into let's say any size of sweaters...don't you think she/he deserves the 'profit' of making the adjusted PATTERN (not DESIGN)?...ofcourse, to imply the label of her/his own, he/she can't...because, basic idea is not hers/his...but i think the knitters have right to 'charge' their effort if they wish...

i think labelling has something to do with designing process...raw idea, fixed idea, making pattern, prove the pattern...or may be just raw idea and fixed idea...so, i think the suggestion given me was rational...we won't charge the design but charge the time (i say 'effort', including yarn, time (days, weeks, months...), etc)...i also would like to add, no-labelling, please...label sounds like we are the idea owner and we do it all designing process ourselves...

i'm thinking to sell my knit project but if the legal issue is like this, i think i'd rather learn how to design one....
i'm living in asia, i just feel discouraged first to email the writer...well, the culture is different and too far far away to control it...i'm not sure she/he will trust me...

for me, permission is like courtesy for me and their admit to my design/work...they want to use it and they have to ask my permission...(like if our neighbour want to use our tools, they must ask for our permission, right?...) moreover...it's like a control tool that they won't put label of their own on my design/work...that's not fair if happens...

i think i need knit designer speaks here and tells something about this from his/her side...

short story about copyright and patent issue:
i understand the feeling about copyright issue from the designer side...i have case in my country where our traditional fabric and FOOD are copyrighted(or patent it)by malaysia and japan...weird...it's our traditionals, it's like 'everyone' knew that, why they copyright it?...besides...all batik makers in my country still a lot...i even learned once about it...and every batiks motif has it's own story and meanings...like they know about it?...it's not their custom...it's...tooo...weird...now, my country and traditional art lover fight for defensing other batiks type (motif) to be copyrighted...batiks have been our traditional art for hundred or may be more than a thousand year!...lucky us...we have a lot of batiks motif...we can still save them by ofcourse make patents and/or copyrights...

yeah, i think sometimes the user must know their position...as i said, it's all about courtesy and acknowledge, and profit share...i won't mind if malaysia or japan make profit by selling those traditional stuff but to own the patent and/or copyright......sorry for people from there...it's weird...very-very weird...
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:57 PM   #22
iza
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I think the way we have to see it, is that the price asked for a pattern will change if the knitters use it for personal use or for making money. Take the extreme situation: you wrote a pattern and Wal Mart is interested in it. You wanted to sell it 5$ for knitters, but there's no way you would sell the pattern 5$ to Wal Mart who would use a single machine to make millions of copies (and tons of money), right? I think it's the same thing here. If people make money with the pattern, the price asked for the pattern should be more. That's normal, and it's like that in many other fields (software, for instance, have sometimes different prices for personal or commercial use). Since it can be hard to evaluate for knitted items, it's probably easier to restrict the use.

At least that's how I understand it.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:39 PM   #23
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So now I'm curious...what about all of the knitted items I've seen that people have entered in the county fair? The ones that win 1st, 2nd and 3rd usually receive some small monetary award as their prize (maybe $5 or $10). Have they all either knitted something in public domain, or created their own pattern, or asked permission of the designer?
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ekgheiy View Post
Yeah ...but I'm too stupid to create my own patterns .

GIRL!!! Ya know if I didn't have this bum leg (hip, ankles, etc, LOL!) I'd KICK YOUR BUTT for saying you are that s word!!!! Shame on you, woman, now ..... take it back!!! Cause you are not, you are wonderful
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lisa Kay View Post
So now I'm curious...what about all of the knitted items I've seen that people have entered in the county fair? The ones that win 1st, 2nd and 3rd usually receive some small monetary award as their prize (maybe $5 or $10). Have they all either knitted something in public domain, or created their own pattern, or asked permission of the designer?

Oh, very good question!!! I still say...ask, ask, ask for all things, that's my policy.
But, who knows if they did or did not?!
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rebecca View Post
GIRL!!! Ya know if I didn't have this bum leg (hip, ankles, etc, LOL!) I'd KICK YOUR BUTT for saying you are that s word!!!! Shame on you, woman, now ..... take it back!!! Cause you are not, you are wonderful

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Old 08-07-2007, 02:29 PM   #27
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The site that Jan sited is one I often use for reference. I think this section sums up some of the most frequent questions I've seen here and other places...systems or processes (turning a heel, raglan sweater, etc) and utilitarian items (socks, hats, mittens, etc) This particular section of her copyright article is well worth reading even if you don't read the rest of it:
Source: Carolyn D'Agostino http://www.geocities.com/jbtocker/co...copyrfaq7.html
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:40 PM   #28
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So what about recipes. Can I make a cake using Hershey's recipe (my favorite) and sell it for a profit? Hershey's went to the trouble of writing the recipe and all that, but I'm using it as my base for the profit. Isn't it the same thing basically?

Kelly
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by kellyh57 View Post
So what about recipes. Can I make a cake using Hershey's recipe (my favorite) and sell it for a profit? Hershey's went to the trouble of writing the recipe and all that, but I'm using it as my base for the profit. Isn't it the same thing basically?

Kelly
You'd need to check the Hersheys site for that I think. This info only applies to knitting.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:58 PM   #30
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I thought I was too stupid to come up with my own patterns too, but after hearing what Rebecca said to the last person who said that, maybe it would be safer for me to be confident, brave, and give it a try
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