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Old 08-21-2007, 10:45 AM   #41
Limey
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Hi Julie

After reading your post, I have to admit that I just don't understand the American mentality of administering an electric shock to an animal, rather than build a boundary fence.

I do not agree with you when you claim you 'know' when your dogs are hurt. You cannot possibly 'know' this because a dog's instinct is not to show signs if injury, as it is taken as a sign of weakness to the other members of the pack - and can spell trouble when food is scarce.

What would you have done if the dogs had not responded to the level 1 shock? - Keep on increasing it until they did? How far were you prepared to go?

The link here http://www.advocatesforanimals.org.u...ockcollars.pdf

gives the pros and cons of shock collars.

Page 9 has a photograph of neck injuries sustained by a PUPPY and there are photos of the prongs that touch animals' necks to administer a shock.

I don't really think I need say any more.

Ellie
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Limey View Post
Hi Julie

After reading your post, I have to admit that I just don't understand the American mentality of administering an electric shock to an animal, rather than build a boundary fence.

I do not agree with you when you claim you 'know' when your dogs are hurt. You cannot possibly 'know' this because a dog's instinct is not to show signs if injury, as it is taken as a sign of weakness to the other members of the pack - and can spell trouble when food is scarce.

What would you have done if the dogs had not responded to the level 1 shock? - Keep on increasing it until they did? How far were you prepared to go?

The link here http://www.advocatesforanimals.org.u...ockcollars.pdf

gives the pros and cons of shock collars.

Page 9 has a photograph of neck injuries sustained by a PUPPY and there are photos of the prongs that touch animals' necks to administer a shock.

I don't really think I need say any more.

Ellie

ANY training device, whether a prong, choke, halti, or e-collar has the potential to harm when used inappropriately. heck, a regular old collar can be abused.

A reasonable person certainly would not shock their own dog to the degree shown in those photos. And that is what we are talking about here: Reasonable people who love their pets but need help training.

Unfortunately there are dogs, for whatever reason (bad breeding, previous abuse, etc), who are very difficult to train. Some are incessant barkers and the only thing that stands between them and the needle is a "beep".

Agan, I would say: It is vitally important to know how to use e-collars correctly and to work with a trainer experienced with them.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:51 AM   #43
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Hi Denise

Many thanks for your reply - of course, alot of animal training tack can be used abusively.

I still think it totally reprehensible and unnecessary to inflict an electric shock to an animal. It is just not necessary - Momwolf and Auburnchick have used these collars to prevent their pets from committing the heinous crime of getting out of the 'yard'.

As for for the case of the non-stop barker, there is an alternative to putting the dog down - take it to a shelter, where it will have a chance to be placed with owners who can give it the time and attention to address the behaviour problem; otherwise, you're saying - shock the dog or kill it.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:56 AM   #44
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I know what the shock feels like and it is just like a vibration not like a electrical shock when used on LOW and Limey I would of had to of tied my dogs up and to a dog that is worse then a 1 second beep or low grade shock
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:08 PM   #45
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Hi Julie

There's a big difference in applying the shock to your WRIST and putting it next to a dog's jugular vein.

You didn't have it round your neck and I take it that you weren't standing in the rain at the time.

All these replies sound to me (except for Denise) that shock collars are used as poor excuses - it's a quick fix, instead of investing money in fencing.

Anyone who takes ownership of a dog should take the responsibility to keep that dog safe in its own 'run' area. It's the least you do.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:14 PM   #46
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Limey my dogs were chasing deer. That is the only time I used the collars and it worked so now I can let them run and play on 1 acre of land rather then being fenced in or tied up.I think the low shock was more humane then fencing or to tie them up
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:27 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Limey View Post
Hi Denise

Many thanks for your reply - of course, alot of animal training tack can be used abusively.

I still think it totally reprehensible and unnecessary to inflict an electric shock to an animal. It is just not necessary - Momwolf and Auburnchick have used these collars to prevent their pets from committing the heinous crime of getting out of the 'yard'.

As for for the case of the non-stop barker, there is an alternative to putting the dog down - take it to a shelter, where it will have a chance to be placed with owners who can give it the time and attention to address the behaviour problem; otherwise, you're saying - shock the dog or kill it.

I don't think an e-collar is ideal...I think it should be a last resort. But I also don't think, if used properly, they are as evil as they are made out to be. I know lots of dogs that have benefitted from e-training who are healthy, happy and haven't a mark on them.

No, I don't mean "shock it or kill it"....this is the scenario: Your dog is obsessive compulsive, he barks constantly. You have received warnings and fines from animal control and you are at a point where your dog has been deemed a disturbance to the community and he must stop barking, be re-homed or worse.

Well, where you gonna rehome a dog that is an incessant barker? It's not like there is a line of folks from the rural areas in line waiting to adopt your dog!

So, you call a trainer proficient in e-collar training. E-collar training often works when conventional methods fail.

I don't know about the UK but here in the states unethical breeding is out of control. Dogs are being bred indiscriminately resulting not only only in health problems but temperament problem also making training difficult.

I agree with you 100% that a fence is always a better solution, and I am lucky my dog stays behind the fence. But another dog may be able to jump a 12 foot fence or dig under, or destroy the slats. Some dogs can be utterly relentless escape artists.

Some folks can't build a higher fence or pour concrete because there is a Homeowners Association that forbids it.

I guess we can all agree to disagree
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:32 PM   #48
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I can see your point of view Limey. I am not really comfortable with shock collars, but I've never seen one, never used one so I don't think it's appropriate for me to judge a person who knows more about it than I do. There are many types of owners and many types of collars as well. I don't think it's fair to put all owners and collars in the same boat.

Perhaps there is a culture difference between Europe and the US on how to treat dogs. I think there's also a difference on how people perceive land property. But really I don't think you will change the American way of life just by yourself, and just by posting in this thread!
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:33 PM   #49
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Limey,
Shock collars serve a purpose in training and when used PROPERLY can mean the difference between keeping your dog or having it put down.Not everyone should use a shock collar.I for one at least used it on myself before using it on my dogs.My wrist is just as sensitive as there neck if not more so because they have fur and muscle on their necks.
I'm not a shock collar advocate but they worked for me and my dogs are happy and healthy.And I rescued both from being put to sleep.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:38 PM   #50
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I don't think an e-collar is ideal...I think it should be a last resort. But I also don't think, if used properly, they are as evil as they are made out to be. I know lots of dogs that have benefitted from e-training who are healthy, happy and haven't a mark on them.

No, I don't mean "shock it or kill it"....this is the scenario: Your dog is obsessive compulsive, he barks constantly. You have received warnings and fines from animal control and you are at a point where your dog has been deemed a disturbance to the community and he must stop barking, be re-homed or worse.

Well, where you gonna rehome a dog that is an incessant barker? It's not like there is a line of folks from the rural areas in line waiting to adopt your dog!

So, you call a trainer proficient in e-collar training. E-collar training often works when conventional methods fail.

I don't know about the UK but here in the states unethical breeding is out of control. Dogs are being bred indiscriminately resulting not only only in health problems but temperament problem also making training difficult.

I agree with you 100% that a fence is always a better solution, and I am lucky my dog stays behind the fence. But another dog may be able to jump a 12 foot fence or dig under, or destroy the slats. Some dogs can be utterly relentless escape artists.

Some folks can't build a higher fence or pour concrete because there is a Homeowners Association that forbids it.

I guess we can all agree to disagree

This is so true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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