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Old 01-12-2008, 02:11 PM   #1
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yfwd, yrn, p2tog, k1
Hi there,
I'm desperate for some help!! I'm knitting Sirdar pattern 8888 in luxury soft cotton DK.

The instructions say to k2tog*yfwd, yrn, p2tog, k1*

I'm really really confused by yfwd, yrn, yo, etc etc. Everywhere I look has got a different explanation to the abbreviations, sometimes they even seem to mean the exact same thing, but i'm guessing that's not the case here!

The pattern is english but I'm a continental knitter, please if you can recommend some videos showing the difference between these stitches that would be great.

Thanks!
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:24 PM   #2
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It a way, it's giving you too much information.

You're doing a YO between a knit and a purl stitch, and to do that you bring the yarn to the front (yfwd), then up and over around the needle to the front again (yrn). This will give you the YO when you p the next 2 together.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:26 PM   #3
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Here is a video from this site. Scroll all the way to the bottom and see yo. There is a video for continental as well as english style knitting. Good Luck.
http://www.knittinghelp.com/videos/increases
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:28 PM   #4
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Take this with a big grain of salt...

I believe it is: yfwd = yarn forward, yrn = yarn around needle, and is specified because you are wrapping the yarn all the way around the needle, to create a new stitch, and then purling. Where as if it just said yarn forward, well, your yarn is already forward from the first yarn forward! So some British patterns I've come across are like this, being very specific what you're doing, compared to some modern American patterns that just call it all a yo/yarn over.

So, I believe, you are essentially creating 2 new stitches - I would call them 2 yarn overs becuase that is what I'm most comfy calling them, so I might rewrite it as:
k2tog *yo, yo, p2tog, k1*
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:00 PM   #5
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No just one yo; the yrn is to make sure you wrap the yarn around the needle again to bring the yarn to the front for the p2tog.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
No just one yo; the yrn is to make sure you wrap the yarn around the needle again to bring the yarn to the front for the p2tog.
Ok, color me confused then! Why one earth you'd have to bring the yarn forward, that was already forward.........or are they saying "yarn around needle" to make you wrap it fully around the needle, front to back to front?

See, my issue is the way I knit conti, and when I yarn over, I am picking the yarn with the right needle, so I move the needle, not the yarn - compared to when I purl, where I move the yarn, not the needles, and I worked so hard to get the motion just right to go between needles in ribbing (and I love knitting ribbing, it goes fast for me!) that I cannot seem to execute a "yarn forward", I end either doing a yo, or a wyif, but a yfwd, where you drape the yarn over the right needle, just isn't in my knitting repertoire!
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:27 PM   #7
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Ok, me again - really only one?? I am soooo confused - see, I have needles in hand, holding working yarn in my right hand even.......

I knit 2tog - my yarn is in back. If I yfwd, as I understand it, then I bring the yarn to the front going OVER the needle - isn't this the exact motion that messes up newbies when they go from knit to purl?? Ok, so now I have one new stitch, and I would, I would think, now be ready to purl the next 2 together........except there is the yrn - if I take my yarn all the way back, and around, I've created two extra stitches. Now, if I read the yfwd as a wyif, then I'd get it.

Ok, I guess this just means I don't dare look at any of the Drops patterns that are in British English, huh??
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:01 AM   #8
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This is a perplexing problem. I went to the site I have found to have the most and best explanations of yarn overs including all the British terms. It is this one. A lot of reading, but if you read it with needles in hand you can learn a lot about YOs if they bug you.

After reading it again I think Melinda may be right on this, that it is two, what we would call yarn overs and here is why.

Quote:
The instructions say to k2tog*yfwd, yrn, p2tog, k1*
It doesn't matter if you are working knits and purls together or just doing single ones. So it could just as easily say k1, *yfwd, yrn, p1. So the situation is simply a yarn over between a knit and a purl stitch. To do that we would bring the yarn to the front between the needles and then over the top and back around to the front. From the article I sited this is called by the Brits a Yfrn. If that was what they wanted they could/should have used that term. But they say yfwd, yrn. The lady at the site says a yfwd is a yarn over done between knit stitches, and a yrn is a yarn over done between two purl stitches. So I'm thinking that must require it to be a double yarn over. But.... it could be weirdly written and really just want a yfrn or one yarn over.

I wonder what the next row says to do. Does it say to do something with two strands made in the last row, or only one, maybe that will help us determine what is really meant.

Yarn overs can be confusing, but they are not really hard. Don't let them get to you. I hope we can get this figured out for you so you can continue your project.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:39 AM   #9
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Okay, it may be 2 as this is between 2 dec sts. Is there a stitch count given so you know how many you should end up with?
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:36 PM   #10
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I knit a LOT of Sirdar patterns and this wording feels comfortable to me. I'd say its just the way they phrase it, and that its exactly as Ingrid says -
Quote:
In a way, it's giving you too much information.

You're doing a YO between a knit and a purl stitch, and to do that you bring the yarn to the front (yfwd), then up and over around the needle to the front again (yrn). This will give you the YO when you p the next 2 together.
I don't knit Continental so don't really follow the problem as Merigoldin says, but after the K2tog the yarn is in back, not the front, so the pattern is telling you to bring the yarn to the front (yfwd)... and you do this BETWEEN the needles, not over them.

Then you're required to take the yarn up and over the needle again and back to the front (yrn) ready to p2tog. So with the yrn you created a stitch on the needle, with the p2tog you decreased a stitch.
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