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Old 06-06-2008, 11:40 AM   #41
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Free markets just means that prices of goods and services are mutually agreed upon by the buyer and seller...no third party (Govt)
is involved... so competition for the consumer is good for the consumer, the seller must satisfy the buyer, or they go out of business... competition for the buyers $$ forces the companies to provide the services they demand.. or they go out of business.
If Walmart was not providing a service that people need... they would go out of business..
Competition forces the "good" to rise to the top.. that means some will fail.. but it creates more good....IMHO.. It does no one any good to prop up failing ventures..give the buyers what they want..they are the little guy and they should control the markets..
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:12 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Pat in Ca View Post
Free markets just means that prices of goods and services are mutually agreed upon by the buyer and seller...no third party (Govt)
is involved... so competition for the consumer is good for the consumer, the seller must satisfy the buyer, or they go out of business... competition for the buyers $$ forces the companies to provide the services they demand.. or they go out of business.
If Walmart was not providing a service that people need... they would go out of business..
Competition forces the "good" to rise to the top.. that means some will fail.. but it creates more good....IMHO.. It does no one any good to prop up failing ventures..give the buyers what they want..they are the little guy and they should control the markets..
I should just ignore this and walk away.....but I can't. I AM one of those "mom and pop" stores that you basically say should compete with Walmart, and if I'm "good" I'll rise to the top and if not I'll fail....but if I'm destined to fail, why "prop me up"?
I'll tell you why. Even those little "mom and pop" shops are employing people. We are busting our buns EVERY day to make sure that we do the very best we can, that we have great customer service, and can best serve the customer's needs. We want to stay in business, and we want our employees to continue to have jobs.
Here is the major problem as I see it. Walmart comes to town. They promise lots of new jobs, cheap prices, economic stimulus. But, they also get breaks the "hometown" business doesn't - no property tax for 10-15 years for example. Anyway, they set up shop, and they do offer lower prices - does anyone doubt that a multi-million dollar corporation can buy in much larger quantities than local businesses? The more you buy, the better break you get. So, where they may order hundreds of thousands of oh, say Corelle 16 piece dinner sets, the small local business can only buy 50. Do you have ANY clue as to the difference in cost to the local business? Of course they are going to have higher prices - they are paying more to even purchase the product....heck, they might be paying more than Walmart charges you.
Does that mean they deserve to fail????? The fact that they aren't able to expand into being a multi-million dollar corporation means they aren't "good" and that they should fail? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My town used to have 2 fabric stores - not chain stores, independently owned fabric stores. There was bolt after bolt of every type of fabric, every kind of trim you'd want (like for moms who were sewing costumes for their kid's dance classes, baton corps, etc.), and they were busy as all get out. BUT, in moves Walmart, and after a few years, the store went away. A couple of other independent fabric stores tried opening up, but sadly, they ended up closing too. So, now, unless you want to drive at least 50 miles, you buy fabric at Walmart......but wait, they're closing the fabric and craft department!!!!!!!!!
They drive people out of business and get a monopoly on the market, and then they dump on the people they were supposedly there to help with their low prices.
I honestly can't count the number of businesses in my town that have closed due to Walmart. And I personally do not think it was because they were mismanaged, unreasonable, poor quality, lacking in customer care, or any of the reasons you have given for the "good" (aka Walmart) rising to the top and the "poor" failing. It's because it's a simple fact that they can't compete with the bulk price discount Wally World gets. Plain and simple.
And I'll give you a little clue about Walmart providing what people need.....in some cases that is true. But I'll also have you know that when people are into something complicated or need help and advice they come to us. What bites is that we do the best we can to help them out - identify the problem they are having, possible causes and what needs to be done to fix it.....and then they leave and go to Walmart and pick up the repair items "because they're cheaper". Of course, they didn't have a clue as to how to help them find out what they needed because their employees aren't necessarily properly educated in the fine points of the department they're working in, but they get the end sale. Now, let me ask YOU.....as a consumer, how or why would you go to a professional to find out what you need to have to fix a problem, then turn around, walk out that door, and go to the "cheaper place" to get the parts? Seems like the customer service was pretty darn good. Seems like the store did what they needed to help the customer. Sure doesn't seem like they "deserve to fail", now does it?
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:57 PM   #43
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I am so sorry that you must have misunderstood me..I would never want any business to fail!! I doubt anyone would..and I do agree that it is a difficult environment for the small businesses that have to compete with the big retailers..which include not just Walmart, but Target, Home Depot , Costco, Sams..

However there are many things that the big retailers CANNOT provide..and it is those elements that give the small retailer with opportunities to survive in their communities..
They fill the gap in several ways..Sometimes I just want to get in and out of a store..I HATE the big parking lots and the long walks just to get to the front of the store!!

I know for sure the # 1 complaint and problem the big retailers have is customer service..how many times have we gone into Home Depot and not been able to find ANYONE to help?? same as with Walmart, Target, etc..
So many times we need guidance and help and nobody can beat the personalized service you get from the smaller stores...It is for that reason that I want to support my local yarn stores.. I want them to stay in business.. sometimes I will order things online, but I purposely
support my local stores.. My dad has run a small business his whole life and has been constantly been threatened by many bigger businesses..there are definate risks in going into business for yourself..competition is one of them..I don't think we should eliminate
the competition.. but others are free to disagree..

My point is only that Walmart doesn't differ much from the other big retailers I mentioned..non-union super stores that are expanding into a lot of urban areas..I don't see how eliminating them would be a good thing...
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:36 PM   #44
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I also agree with you that ALL corporate tax rates need to be reduced..for ALL corporations...I think more people are talking about this, so maybe we will see some relief on this issue..
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:27 PM   #45
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Even Walmart started out as a small business....maybe not a "mom and pop store", but still small without the advantages of BIG corporations. Somehow they still managed to succeed and grow. As they have expanded, they have paid for roads or streets near their stores. I doubt that small business can do that. I think they set an example of what can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work.

Big businesses also contribute large amounts to scholarships and local charities. Thank God for big business. That includes Target, Lowe's, etc.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:34 PM   #46
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Also, when there are many in need of supplies due to the ravages of hurricanes and such, Walmart is one of the first corporations to respond with necessities.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by bjc1050 View Post
Also, when there are many in need of supplies due to the ravages of hurricanes and such, Walmart is one of the first corporations to respond with necessities.
Ahhhh, they're just the ones you HEAR about. I'd bet you 10 to 1 that people from surrounding communities who didn't get "hit" (or however you want to put it) are also right there on the scene - many of them "mom and pop" store owners who are doing whatever they can as well.
Small business is the backbone of this country.....and as you see them go by the wayside, one is actually witnessing the demise of the American dream.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:31 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bjc1050 View Post
Even Walmart started out as a small business....maybe not a "mom and pop store", but still small without the advantages of BIG corporations. Somehow they still managed to succeed and grow. As they have expanded, they have paid for roads or streets near their stores. I doubt that small business can do that. I think they set an example of what can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work.

Big businesses also contribute large amounts to scholarships and local charities. Thank God for big business. That includes Target, Lowe's, etc.
Pardon me, but I find this highly insulting. "What can be achieved with the right business sense along with the hard work." If you think that those of us in "mom and pop" stores do NOT have business sense, and do NOT work hard, you are sadly mistaken. 66+ hour weeks? Keeping solvent while fighting the big corporations? Believe me, it takes a LOT of business sense and hard work - and we, as well as all mom & pops, do it thank you very much.
I hope to heaven that small businesses are able to hang on against the onslaught of the Walmarts, Lowes, Home Depots, and the like. If they are not, you WILL be sorry in the future, mark my words. I'm sure you don't believe me, but if there comes a time that those are the only businesses you have to rely on, it will be a sad, sad day.
God bless the "mom and pops" in this country!!!!!!!!!!! Long may they prosper.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by miccisue View Post
Ahhhh, they're just the ones you HEAR about. I'd bet you 10 to 1 that people from surrounding communities who didn't get "hit" (or however you want to put it) are also right there on the scene - many of them "mom and pop" store owners who are doing whatever they can as well.
Small business is the backbone of this country.....and as you see them go by the wayside, one is actually witnessing the demise of the American dream.
I didn't mean to say that smaller businesses don't help with disasters. However, businesses like Walmart can and DO help on a much larger scale so recovery can begin sooner. Just as I am unable to make as large a donation as someone who is very wealthy - small businesses contribution is smaller than Walmart's or Target's.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:42 PM   #50
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Me too! I shopped at a Kroger a few months ago just to wean myself off Walmart and I spent $184 dollars, Walmart would have probably saved me at least $50.......so I went back!
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