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Old 05-19-2010, 11:05 PM   #1
wanderingcow
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Need Help with Shawl Collar - Is It the Pattern or Me? :)
Hello all - Looking for some help with a pattern - this portion is for a shawl collar worked in short rows in between 2 markers on each side- one is at the top of the sleeve and the other is on the front at the collar's ending point. My directions in the pattern don't seem right to me - It's my first time with short rows, so it may well be me

Here is what the directions say for the 4 row repeat:

1) RS work in k2 p2 rib as established to marker on left front, sl next st as if to purl, bring yarn to rs, sl st back to left needle, bring yarn to ws, turn

2) WS work in k2 p2 rib as established to marker on right front, sl next st as if to purl, bring yarn to ws, turn

3) work in k2 p2 rib as established to 2sts before marker of left front, sl next st as if to purl, bring yarn to rs, sl st back to left needle, bring yarn to ws, turn

4) work in k2 p2 rib as established to 2 sts before marker of right front, sl next st as if to purl, bring yarn to rs, sl st back to left needle, bring yarn to ws, turn. Continue in this manner until all sts between markers and top of sleeve markers are worked.

Okay, I'm missing something here. It would seem to me that rows 1 and 2 should be marked as working to the marker AT THE TOP OF THE SLEEVE, then 3 and 4 to the markers on the front. Otherwise, I'd be creating short rows outside of the boundaries of the markers.

Is the pattern wrong? Or am I just not visualizing this correctly?

Thank you
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:24 AM   #2
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Have you tried knitting it the way it's written? Sometimes it's really difficult to 'see' something in your head, but when you get there with the yarn and needles, it all makes sense.
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:28 AM   #3
wanderingcow
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Sue - My instinct is that the pattern is mislabeling the marker in rows 1 and 2 - since I haven't done short rows, I was a little leery of trusting that instinct right off the bat....

Amy
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:46 AM   #4
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That's odd that the markers are at the front and the top of the sleeve/shoulder. Usually the short rows would be around the back of the collar, so they'd go from front to front; some of the short rows would include the front to shoulder area, but the majority of them should be over the back. What's the pattern and do you have a link for it?
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:29 AM   #5
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I made the Circumnavigated Cardigan with a shawl collar and it used short rows, too. The markers were on either side though.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:31 AM   #6
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Here's the pattern - it's from Lion.

I can see what you're saying about working the short rows over the back. However, the pattern has it set up differently.

If anyone could take a look, I'd appreciate it - the shawl collar instructions are toward the very end, maybe even the last page.
Amy
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:47 PM   #7
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From studying this pattern carefully and drawing a diagram of how it says to pick up the stitches, and place the markers for the border once you have the sweater sewn together, this is what I get. You will have a stitch marker at two places on each side. One is at the very right front where the sweater turns to head straight down the front of your body and at the right there will be another one just to the downward side of the (toward the floor if you were wearing it) sleeve stitches for the right sleeve. IOW if you traveled in a line up from the lower edge of the sweater on the right, you would have the first marker right where it turns at the neck edge where the neck shaping started and the other one (traveling in the same direction- from the floor) just before the sleeve stitches. The set up is the same on the left front.

They say in one place,
Quote:
" Shawl Collar is worked in short rows, between 2 markers at level of neck shaping."
So they want you to work the short rows across everything toward the back from the two markers that are at the neck edge where the neck shaping begins (the first marker I tried to describe the placement of above). So you will be building up the whole back neck of the sweater as well like you understand needs to be done. You keep working the short rows as given from left to right until you reach the second marker. IOW stop working the short rows when you get to where the sleeve stitches begin on each side. The short rows will be worked all the way from where your top button would be on the right, around the back to where the top button would be on the left stopping them two stitches closer to the other two markers each time you turn, and when you have worked to the point where the turning wrap for your next short row would dip into the stitches of the sleeves, stop. This is stated here:
Quote:
Continue in this manner until all sts between markers and top of Sleeve markers are worked.
They meant: Continue in this manner until all sts between markers (the markers at the front neck on each side) and the top of sleeve markers are worked.

That is where you end the collar and bind off picking up the wraps as you go.

I just wanted to point out since you are new to short rows that you will be ignoring your beginning of round marker and working right past it as you work the short rows from one neck front to the other.

I hope this is clear.
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:28 PM   #8
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Okay - THAT makes so much sense - Now that I look back over everything, I think what threw me off was how the pattern works in the 4 row repeat between the markers.

I'm think that rows 1 and 2 (see my original post) should read to work to 1 stitch before the marker, not to the marker and then slip the next stitch.

Thank you so much everyone - I have consistently found that knitters are a warm, welcoming, and helpful bunch
Amy
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