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Old 05-06-2010, 03:31 PM   #1
pursesbybarb4u
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YON and YRN
Okay, I've looked both these up on the Internet and found a lot of stuff, but I am still having a problem. This is a British pattern and I know that YON is done bet. a p and a k, whereas a YRN is done between 2 p's. The problem is with the YON. The help I found said that when you do a YON, your yarn is already in the front, so you have to "flip" the thread over the needle again to create that extra stitch. However, when I do this and I come back on the next row, that stitch "unknits itself". In other words, the extra stitch created falls off and you have one huge loop instead of two stitches. Also, when it says to flip it (or wrap it again) which direction do you go: Clockwise around needle, or counterclockwise around needle? HELP!

Barb
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:46 PM   #2
suzeeq
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Is the YON done between 2 purl sts? Then the yarn is in front, move it over the needle to the back, then to the front again for the next purl st. Cwise and CCwise confuse me, it depends how you're looking at the needle as to which is which. But you simple wrap it around the same way you do for a knit or a purl stitch.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #3
pursesbybarb4u
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YON
This YON is after a purl then YON and then slip one. I HAVE been wrapping it just as I would if knitting or purling and flipping back and forth; however, when knitting back on the next row, as I said, the wrap seems to unknit itself and create one huge loop. Now, maybe it's supposed to be that way, but it just doesn't look right to me and I feel like giving up this pattern. I am so bummed because usually I can figure out something after trying it a few times. This time it's not going well and I am ready to tear my hair out and abandon this wonderful looking pattern.

Barb
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:51 PM   #4
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It's supposed to leave a hole. I thought you meant it just wasn't there at all. How does the entire sequence of stitches run... P, YON, sl 1, then...?
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #5
pursesbybarb4u
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YON and YRN
Thanks for the help. After working and frogging all afternoon and into the night, I started over. I am not to the point where I was having the problem yet, but my yarn was getting frayed from so much ripppppppiiiinnnnggg! So I cut that yarn and started with a new strand with Row 1. A new beginning!

I think I may have it figured out, but I won't know until I get therem which is Row 7. There is another term that I may have been confused about and that is; YFRN. Here's the entire row 7:

K1, *YF, sl 1, k1, psso, p1, yon, sl 1, k2 tog, psso, yfrn, p1, k2 tog, yf, k1, rep from * to end.

I assumed that yfrn just meant to bring the yarn around to the front, which you would normally do with a purl anyway. So, maybe since it should be assumed that you would bring the yarn around to the front anyway, the yfrn means something else. Looking at the abbreviations, it says: " yfrn: yarn foward and round needle." That might be where I am losing the extra stitch. So, I will go back and get to that spot again and see if the yfrn is REALLY where the problem was all along and solve the problem. I am a very experienced knitter, but I have never used a British pattern before, so it makes me sound like a newbie.

I will keep you posted if it doesn't work and maybe you can then offer some other advice. Thanks for the support.

Barb
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:59 PM   #6
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Yes, the yfrn is yarn forward around needle, or another way to write YO. It's used when you go from a knit st to a purl - bring the yarn to the front, then around the needle to the front again. British patterns use these terms to describe what you do with the yarn rather than just 'yo' which is the result.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:36 PM   #7
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K1, *YF, sl 1, k1, psso, p1, yon, sl 1, k2 tog, psso, yfrn, p1, k2 tog, yf, k1, rep from * to end.


k1 - as normal
* YF - bring the yarn foward between the needles.

sl 1, k1, psso - this is a single stitch; a decrease executed directly from the yarn forward it creates a yarnover and one stitch. net change - zilch

purl 1 - leaves your yarn forward.

YON - yarn OVER needle - not between the needles. creates a yarnover.

sl 1, k2 tog, psso - double decrease. leaves your yarn in back.

yfrn - yarn forward round needle. Bring the yarn between the needles forward, over the needle and back between the needles ending forward.

(you've created a total of three yarnovers and decreased three - net change is still zilch)

p1.

k2tog. (decrease)

YF - bring the yarn forward between the needles.

k1. Since you have to bring the yarn over the needle to work the knit, you create another yarnover.


I think it's a very complicated way to say:

k1; * YO, (slip 1, k1, psso), p1, YO, (sl 1, k2 tog, psso), YO, p1, k2 tog, YO, k1, rep from *

Or possibly even clearer:

k1; *YO, skp, p1, YO, s2kp, YO, p1, k2tog, YO, k1 repeat from *
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:44 PM   #8
pursesbybarb4u
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Still a Nightmare
Thanks for all the help, especially Mario. You must live and breathe knitting lace. But, I have to tell you that this pattern is a total nightmare. I am a very experienced knitter and I have had nothing but problem after problem with this pattern. I started over completely last night (and I'm talking from casting on again). I worked on it literally ALL DAY LONG on Mother's day and I've only reached Row 11 (of 151 stitches). Now this is absolutely ridiculous. I could have had an entire purse knitted by this time on any other pattern because I am usually a fast knitter. I am really not pleased with what has been knitted so far either. It just looks uneven because of all the stops and starts, etc. I put markers between sections so I could keep some order and figure out what was wrong on each section. I am including a picture of the pattern so you can see it. It looks easy, yes, but beware -- it's not! Once I get past the lace section and to the stockinette, it will be a breeze, but then comes the sleeves, the lace bodice and the bonnet! I won't live through this nightmare. I am seriously considering scrapping the whole thing and using another pattern altogether.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:13 AM   #9
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Hi, Barb...

Two things that might help... When I have an intricate pattern I generally re-write the whole thing, row by row, on index cards, one row to a card. Then I can arrange the instructions in a more legible and easier to follow layout. Besides, you'll get very familiar with the pattern when you do this. A big plus with this is that you can stack the index cards and turn them over one at a time so that you always know which row you're on.

The second thing is - are you using a lifeline? That might be a big help to you once you've really gotten in tune with the pattern. (There's a video on here about how to use a lifeline if you're unfamiliar with it)

From what I can see the set is GORGEOUS, but I don't believe it should be so painful to do! Concentration is one thing but pain? Who needs THAT? :o)

Good luck and keep us all posted on your decision/progress!

Happy Knitting,
Ruthie
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:48 PM   #10
pursesbybarb4u
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Thanks Ruthie,
What a sweetie you are! I really needed some inspiration because I had already decided to abandon the pattern. Your suggestion about using index cards is something I already have done! Isn't that funny that we both thought of the same thing? I used that method on another baby outfit I knitted and it worked wonderfully. Now I am doing it on all my complicated projects. I typed each row on an individual sticky label, then stuck each one on an index card, made a hole in the upper left corner and put one of those rings that you can get that look like the rings in a binder to hold them together, so then as I knit, I just flip and go on to the next row/card. The main problem I am having is with the yfrn. It comes right before a slipped stitch, and when I go to the next row to knit back, that yfrn unknits itself. I know it is supposed to leave a hole, but when this happens, my stitch count is off by one, so I know there is supposed to be two stitches from the yfrn and that's not happening because, as I said, it unknits itself. I am going crazy. I never heard of lifeline, so I will go there and see what it's all about. I will post what I find out and what I decide to do. I have even thought of substituting those lace rows in the pattern to a different lace pattern (written in the good old US of A), but that's going to take some real concentration to get the stitch count right and it seems like too much work to make this project any fun at all.

Thanks again,
Barb
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