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Old 06-03-2010, 03:56 PM   #1
EvasMom
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Completing shoulder seem with a cable and moss stitch
Hello, all.
And thanks in advance for your much needed advice and help. I'm currently knitting a sweater for my little one from Debbie Bliss called 'Zipped Jacket with Hood' (I've attached a pic as i cant put the pic or the link in as this is my first post)

I have already completed knitting the back and both the front sides and one sleeve. I wanted to complete the shoulder seam so that i could accurately measure the appropriate length for the arms for my little one. And i'm totally flummoxed on how to do this.

The back and fronts are stocking stitch with a moss stitch border on the bottom half and a cable/moss stitch pattern on the top half.
The pattern has four rows and here are the last two for reference (taken from the left front for brevity):
Row 3: *P1, [K1,P1] 4 times, C4B, K2, (repeat from * once), P1,[k1,p1] 4 times, k1
Row 4: k1, p1, [k1, p5, k1, p8] 2 times, k1, p5, k1, p1

The shoulder shaping called a 12 stitch cast off at the beg of a row, followed by a worked row and then another 12 stitch cast off. The shoulder shaping on the back matches the shoulders.

so the question is: how do i join them? From all my online research it would seem if they were straight and 'live' a three needle cast off would be great but they arent either. I've read a bit about kirtchner but have no idea what that would mean and how to do it... is there another way?

all your help deeply appreciated.

thanks,
mom in distress
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Last edited by EvasMom : 06-03-2010 at 03:57 PM. Reason: mistake in posting
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:07 PM   #2
suzeeq
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The kitchener or 3 needle BO could still be used, just don't BO the sts. To keep the sts live you would work only part of the row before the one with the first BO - just stop 12 sts before the edge. Turn, slip the first st and work that row. Next row, stop 12 sts before you stopped on the previous row. Leave all those sts on another needle or shoulder and work the other shoulder. If you've already bound off on the back, you can undo the shaping and rework the same way with the shorter rows. Then you have live sts on all the shoulders that you can join.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:55 AM   #3
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Thanks, Suzeeq.
So as i've bound off the back and both front pieces i should unravel that so that i have both (well all three), live again? And then i need to match the two sets of 12 bind offs on both sides and do together?

Can i leave all 24 per side on the same holder or do i need two per side and then do all the BO together?

From what i've read the three needle is much easier than the Kitchener (especially for a beginner). Do you agree? Or are the results so superior on the Kitchener that i would be a bad mother not to give it a go?

If I do do the three needle method should i follow the pattern or just knit? Or will it matter since i'm working the wrong side?

thanks so much for your help. I'm feeling better already.

p.s. Isnt it strange that the pattern didnt say to do like this? it specifically gives all the BO info and then says to join the shoulders after all the pieces are done. I wonder what she had in mind or is that the designers prerogative ?
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:14 PM   #4
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I actually like a 3 needle bind off better than kitchener for a shoulder seam. The 3 needle has a little substance to it that helps the seam to keep its shape. Kitchener is grafting so that it looks just like the two pieces are knit together and it stretches more like regular knitting. Also kitchener is harder to do when you have a pattern stitch. The pattern probably intended for you to sew the seam, which is also possible.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:04 PM   #5
EvasMom
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Thanks, MerigoldinWA.
Given that the pieces are already bounded off, what would you do? And if its to sew, how would i do it? i only know (and have seen) how to do it for stocking stitch but not sure if that will look odd with the pattern. I do like the simplicity of the three needle bind off (note i'm saying that before having done it) as sewing up is one of my least favourite parts of knitting, but i'm not looking forward to unbinding and unraveling the few rows in the back and the couple of rows in the front pieces.

So i would really appreciate your view and advice.

many thanks,
dana
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:46 PM   #6
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I'm not 100% sure what I would do. It is nice to plan ahead if you want to use live stitches and having already bound off I might go ahead and sew the seam. But....I also like turn shaping for the shoulder, like Sue suggested (this is mostly advantage with the seaming process). But ripping out and redoing can be a pain too. It's your call.

Here is a link to an on-line knitting book that has good explanation for how to do seaming. This is a link to the first page of chapter 19 "Horizontal Seaming". Read the whole chapter to get the whole story. Since you have knits and purls to deal with there is one picture of one place to put your needle for seaming the purl stitches real close to the end of the thing.

You might try seaming it and see how you like the result, if you don't like it you can then take it out, do the turns and use the 3 needle bind off. I had a sweater once that was bulky yarn that I had all done but sewing up. It had stair step shoulder shaping. I tried sewing them up and didn't like it so I never finished the thing. A couple of years later I learned out how to do non-stair step shoulders but still not the kind Sue mentions that give you live stitches to work with for the seam. So I got it out and tried again. Still didn't like it. Then I learned to do the wrap shaping so I could 3 needle BO and I got it out and actually finished it so that I was happy with it. But part of that was because the yarn was so thick that all the problems were magnified. So if first you don't succeed you can always try again.
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:43 PM   #7
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All sorted!
I just wanted to follow up to say that based upon both of your advice i decided to undo the BO on the back and two fronts and use the 3 needle BO. I am very happy with the result and will aim to use 3 needle BO whenever possible moving forward as so much easier than sewing (for me anyway).

I'm now working on the hood and hope to have it all finished before my daughter is too big for it.

thanks again,
dana
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:53 AM   #8
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I'm glad it worked out so well for you. A 3 needle bind off gives a nice seam. Undoing wasn't so bad was it? Doing backsies is never fun, but it isn't so bad. Thanks for the update. It is always nice to know how things went.
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